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GDPR rule and management company request

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  • 30-07-2020 11:59am
    #1
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,359 ✭✭✭


    does anybody know if managmenet companies are entitled to tenants' details and if there are GDPR rules about this?


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    #2
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Have the management company specified why the information is required?

    Personal opinion, I can see how they could claim a legitimate interest in tenants details. I think the main question would be on what basis are they claiming a legitimate interest and is the data the minimum required.

    E.g I could see how they can justify asking for name, contact number, unit number (address) maybe even car registration (for parking management purposes).

    I couldn't see how they could justify PPS number, DOB, employment status etc.


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    #3
    Manion
    Registered Users Posts: 1,505 ✭✭✭Manion


    The following information will be required by the RTB in order to register a tenancy:
    Rented Dwelling Address
    Dwelling Type (i.e. Whole of House/Apartment/Flat Bedrooms,
    Bedspaces & Number of Occupants
    Approximate Floor Area in Square Metres
    BER Cert Rating (if applicable)
    Local Authority in which rented dwelling is located
    Tenancy Commencement Date
    Landlord name/address/ppsn
    Tenant Name/ppsn
    Authorised Agent (if applicable) Name/Address/CRO number/ppsn
    Management Company (if applicable) Name/Address/CRO number

    https://www.rtb.ie/register-a-tenancy/how-to-register-a-tenancy

    Here is the data protection guidance.

    https://www.dataprotection.ie/sites/default/files/uploads/2019-07/190710%20Requesting%20Personal%20Data%20from%20Prospective%20Tenants.pdf

    At the end of the day anyone can ask you for anything as consent is one of the basis. Though do note that they do not recommend landlords use this basis due to power dynamics it might fail the "freely given" test.


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    #4
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    The guide you've linked to is guidance for landlords about collecting data from prospective tenants.

    Any data controller would be completely foolish to rely on consent alone.


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    #5
    Manion
    Registered Users Posts: 1,505 ✭✭✭Manion


    Graham wrote: »
    The guide you've linked to is guidance for landlords about collecting data from prospective tenants.

    Any data controller would be completely foolish to rely on consent alone.

    The report does make that point. Tbh, not sure how foolish it is in reality given the limited options for recourse.


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    #6
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,359 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Graham wrote: »
    Have the management company specified why the information is required?

    Personal opinion, I can see how they could claim a legitimate interest in tenants details. I think the main question would be on what basis are they claiming a legitimate interest and is the data the minimum required.

    E.g I could see how they can justify asking for name, contact number, unit number (address) maybe even car registration (for parking management purposes).

    I couldn't see how they could justify PPS number, DOB, employment status etc.

    The management company rang to say that the tenants had dumped stuff by the bins and asked me to get them to move it. They asked me to provide the mobile phones and names of the tenants. When I said I wasn't sure due to GDPR rules and they said I had to and that there was legislation requiring i provide the details.

    He was just about to leave so didn't have time to send me a link nor provide the proof it was my tenants which was claimed to be cctv and key fob records. Of course the tenants say it wasn't them. So somebody is not telling me the truth or made a mistake.


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    #7
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    They asked me to provide the mobile phones and names of the tenants. When I said I wasn't sure due to GDPR rules and they said I had to and that there was legislation requiring i provide the details.

    I don't know what legislation they'd be referring to but I would find it odd that they only remembered it when they were looking for the phone numbers.


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    #8
    Manion
    Registered Users Posts: 1,505 ✭✭✭Manion


    Sorry I completely missread this issue, I thought it was a management company managing the property. I wouldn't give out those details.


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    #9
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,359 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Graham wrote: »
    I don't know what legislation they'd be referring to but I would find it odd that they only remembered it when they were looking for the phone numbers.

    Me neither and would be surprised if such existed. He appeared rushed and also said i would be liable for the investigation time. Doesn't seem to be aware he works for me as the owner. Obviously I will be annoyed about the tenants actions if true but not a great way of handling it. Ringing to complain then not available to handle the issue and it appears nobody else is either


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    #10
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    If the mgmt co have said that there's legislation that entitles them to the data, push this back on them and request the specific legislation. You shouldn't have to put yourself at risk handling tenants data if you don't know why you're doing it.

    If you're passing on their information for a business purpose, you're handling someone else's personally identifiable information and it's up to you to be sure of why you're doing it, the legal basis for doing it, and to inform the data subject.


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    #11
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,359 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    true-or-false wrote: »
    If the mgmt co have said that there's legislation that entitles them to the data, push this back on them and request the specific legislation. You shouldn't have to put yourself at risk handling tenants data if you don't know why you're doing it.

    If you're passing on their information for a business purpose, you're handling someone else's personally identifiable information and it's up to you to be sure of why you're doing it, the legal basis for doing it, and to inform the data subject.

    I pushed back immediately but he was rushing to take a day off so didn't have time to send it on nor the alleged proof. Now nobody else is there to deal with it until his return.


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    #12
    daheff
    Registered Users Posts: 5,835 ✭✭✭daheff


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    I pushed back immediately but he was rushing to take a day off so didn't have time to send it on nor the alleged proof. Now nobody else is there to deal with it until his return.

    The "I'm in a rush" excuse always sounds fishy. If they have time to talk to you about it then they have time to do it right.

    My answer to those enquiries is to call me back when you have enough time to deal with the issue

    Are you 100% sure it was the MGMT company and not somebody phishing for information on your tenants? Maybe they owe money and this was a debt collector trying to get their phone number from you?

    On the point about providing tenants details. Do not do this unless they send you a legal letter requesting this. Then give that to the tenants and let them decide if they want their details provided.


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    #13
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,359 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    daheff wrote: »
    The "I'm in a rush" excuse always sounds fishy. If they have time to talk to you about it then they have time to do it right.

    My answer to those enquiries is to call me back when you have enough time to deal with the issue

    Are you 100% sure it was the MGMT company and not somebody phishing for information on your tenants? Maybe they owe money and this was a debt collector trying to get their phone number from you?

    On the point about providing tenants details. Do not do this unless they send you a legal letter requesting this. Then give that to the tenants and let them decide if they want their details provided.

    No worries I am not doing anything without proof. I am just trying to find out about legislation and no real point speculating about intent or napherious goings on. Just added details to show context.

    I suspect he meant the charter they made for the building rather than legislation. If somebody knew about legislation I would think somebody here would know.

    Still I am caught between 2 groups saying opposite things. Landlords apparently do nothing and it is easy money after all ;)


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    #14
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,359 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    So they got back to me and said it is MUD act
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2011/act/2/enacted/en/html
    They sent a screen shot with a part showing management companies are entitled to the info.

    Still not sure if GDPR overrides it.


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    #15
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    It surely gives them a legitimate interest in the data they're looking for.


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    #16
    goingnowhere
    Registered Users Posts: 4,141 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    Sec 8
    (3) A unit owner (whether the owner of a residential unit or a commercial unit) shall be under an obligation to furnish to the relevant owners’ management company—

    (a) particulars of his or her name,

    (b) particulars of his or her address,

    (c) particulars of the names of the tenants in the unit,

    (d) particulars of any habitual occupiers of the unit other than tenants, and

    (e) such other contact particulars as the owners’ management company may reasonably request,

    and shall promptly notify the owners’ management company of any change in such particulars.

    As there is an obligation in law to provide the details, GDPR isn't a factor in requesting the information. GDPR becomes a factor in the use of that data which would have to be reasonably restricted to management of the development. So the scenario presented would be reasonable to use the data as it relates to the management of the development and the obligations of the OMC to discharge its duty to the upkeep of common area's and facilities.


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    #17
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    If only we could erase GDPR from history, what a load of absolute horse manure only thing worse is those who keeping crying “GDPR” over the most minor things. It would sicken you listening to it.


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    #18
    Manion
    Registered Users Posts: 1,505 ✭✭✭Manion


    Gloria Loud Polygamist wrote: »
    If only we could erase GDPR from history, what a load of absolute horse manure only thing worse is those who keeping crying “GDPR” over the most minor things. It would sicken you listening to it.

    GDPR is a massively positive thing for consumers and people in general.


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    #19
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Manion wrote: »
    GDPR is a massively positive thing for consumers and people in general.

    It’s a load of sh1te and I’m sick hearing people harping on about it. I couldn’t give a rats about it, If I was the op I’d have handed over the number without a second thought. I would see the management company as having every right to details of people living in an apartment.


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    #20
    salonfire
    Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭salonfire


    Gloria Loud Polygamist wrote: »
    It’s a load of sh1te and I’m sick hearing people harping on about it. I couldn’t give a rats about it, If I was the op I’d have handed over the number without a second thought. I would see the management company as having every right to details of people living in an apartment.

    Post your name, number and address on here so if you are so unbothered about your personal data.


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    #21
    Manion
    Registered Users Posts: 1,505 ✭✭✭Manion


    No need I'll PM it to you :)


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    #22
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    salonfire wrote: »
    Post your name, number and address on here so if you are so unbothered about your personal data.

    You are trying to make a totally incomparable comparison.

    Have you ever sold something on DoneDeal? Or rented a room? Your name number and in many cases address will be in full view. I’ve done both in numerous occasions without a second thought.


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    #23
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    Gloria Loud Polygamist wrote: »
    You are trying to make a totally incomparable comparison.

    Have you ever sold something on DoneDeal? Or rented a room? Your name number and in many cases address will be in full view. I’ve done both in numerous occasions without a second thought.

    That's also an invalid comparison because those are circumstances of a person choosing to share their own information, where as the OP is asking about a third party looking for their tenants' details.

    It's one thing to be unconcerned about your own data being out in the public domain. It's another thing entirely to give away other people's data. And the latter is why we need data protection laws.


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    #24
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    The management company rang to say that the tenants had dumped stuff by the bins and asked me to get them to move it. They asked me to provide the mobile phones and names of the tenants.
    This bit has me thinking that rubbish dumped by the bins had your address and names on the side of said rubbish (such as collection of large boxes). They want the names to confirm this, and will provide the Litter Warden your tenants name & contact number.


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