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Converting downlights - 12v MR16 Halogen to mains GU10 LED questions

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  • 12-01-2021 6:00pm
    #1
    Bungusbeefcake
    Registered Users Posts: 192 ✭✭


    Hi All,

    So I moved to a new house a year ago and the lights in this place are driving me mad. There's loads of downlights everywhere and have fittings gone, probably transformers gone and are going through halogens at a stupid rate. So I've taken the decision that I'm going to replace them all with LEDs as I need to fix a load anyway and it'll save me money in the long run.

    I have the following -
    50 X ceiling 12V halogen MR16 non-dimmable downlights interior.
    21 X soffit mounted 12V halogen MR16 non-dimmable downlights exterior.
    12 X ceiling 12V halogen MR16 dimmable downlights interior.

    I would like to keep the dimmable ones working on a dimmer.

    I'm looking to see if my plan of action and materials make sense and if you think I'm missing anything or have any tips/tricks:

    For the dimmable lights, remove MR16 fitting, remove transformer, replace fitting with GU10 fitting. Remove standard (leading-edge) style dimmer switch and replace with Varilight V-Pro (suitable for up to 30 lights) set to mode 1 (trailing-edge). Install Megaman 5W dimmable LEDs.

    For all others, non-dimmable (including soffit mounted), remove MR16 fitting, remove transformer, replace fitting with GU10 fitting and install 5W Standard LED.

    What do you think? Would I be missing a driver for the dimmable ones? Should I get GU10 fittings with the terminal blocks attached (big black plastic shroud)or stick on a standard white plastic one myself?
    Any advice would be welcomed.

    Thanks


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    #2
    alan4cult
    Registered Users Posts: 1,583 ✭✭✭alan4cult


    All sounds good, you don't need a driver only for low voltage lights it's basically a switching transformer.


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    #3
    10-10-20
    Registered Users Posts: 6,650 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    83x downlighters? wow, must be a record.
    Consider reviewing the thermal loss, fire-proofing and ventilation issues with such a count of devices. If they vent into non-habitable attic space then each is effectively a puncture in the insulation and vapour-control envelope. Consider fitting a sealed unit (such as an IP65 rated downighter) to lessen the draft, also consider fiting an intumescent hood or thermal hood where possible/required.
    Keep the plasterboard hole tight to avoid sloppy losses through the sides of the downlighters, etc.

    Addressing these concerns now will save you heart-ache in the long-run.
    I know, I had 10 of the cursed things over a bath-tub.


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    #4
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,878 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    10-10-20 wrote:
    83x downlighters? wow, must be a record. Consider reviewing the thermal loss, fire-proofing and ventilation issues with such a count of devices. If they vent into non-habitable attic space then each is effectively a puncture in the insulation and vapour-control envelope. Consider fitting a sealed unit (such as an IP65 rated downighter) to lessen the draft, also consider fiting an intumescent hood or thermal hood where possible/required. Keep the plasterboard hole tight to avoid sloppy losses through the sides of the downlighters, etc.


    I have 26 between my kitchen and sitting room & I thought that was a lot.

    Can you imagine the cost of changing these to something like the Philips Hue Coloured smart bulbs @ around 50 or 60 euro a pop!


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    #5
    Bungusbeefcake
    Registered Users Posts: 192 ✭✭Bungusbeefcake


    10-10-20 wrote: »
    83x downlighters? wow, must be a record.
    Consider reviewing the thermal loss, fire-proofing and ventilation issues with such a count of devices. If they vent into non-habitable attic space then each is effectively a puncture in the insulation and vapour-control envelope. Consider fitting a sealed unit (such as an IP65 rated downighter) to lessen the draft, also consider fiting an intumescent hood or thermal hood where possible/required.
    Keep the plasterboard hole tight to avoid sloppy losses through the sides of the downlighters, etc.

    Addressing these concerns now will save you heart-ache in the long-run.
    I know, I had 10 of the cursed things over a bath-tub.

    The thermal leakage isn't really a problem as they're mostly inbetween floors. I've only maybe 12 in total upstairs as the house is a dormer. And, to be honest, the rooms with the most lights probably could do with letting some heat out every now and again.

    There's only 4 in the main bathroom and 3 in 2 other en-suits, so I'm not sure about the vapour control on those, are there different ones for high humidity rooms?

    The heat generation issues......yes, well my assumption is that they haven't caught fire as halogens for the last 10 years before I bought the place so I assume they're fine.....and the LEDs will have a much lower heat generation....I think.

    Is that right?

    I'm worried about the outside ones though, is there specific ones for outside or are they normally fine? As there are 21, I wouldn't want to go with integrated ones for IP65 as the cost would start to climb rapidly and I'd probably just forget about them but what do you think?

    Also, this isn't the first wiring thing I've had to change......there's loads to do....switches that do.....nothing....I think....
    There's 12 old RJ11 connections around the place and I want to change the cable to cat 7 and change the keystones to RJ45 and was thinking of using the cat 3 thats there as a fishing line to pull the cat 7 through, but it seems to be stapled inside the wall.....or just really really stuck so it's a real pain....any thoughts on that?? I was thinking of opening up a thread on that too.

    Thanks


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    #6
    10-10-20
    Registered Users Posts: 6,650 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    MR12 come in 50w and 35w usually. The LED replacements are about 3.5 to 5w.
    IP65 rated fittings are recommended for high humidity areas. Don't forget that these control the vapour so that it cannot permeate into unwanted areas as well as being electrically safe. Examples of such are here:
    https://robus.com/catalogue/downlights

    With halogen bulbs:
    Worst case: 50w * 83 = 4150w.
    Best case: 35w * 83 = 2905w.

    With equivalent LED bulbs:
    Worst case: 5w * 83 = 415w
    Best case: 4w * 83 = 332w.

    That's some difference.


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    #7
    Underwurlde
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭Underwurlde


    I changed my 12v to these from screwfix. On the downside, the bulbs are not replaceable, however they are really easy to fit, are dimmable, fire rated ,IP65, and look great. Available in warm and cool white, and a variety of finishes. I'll be using these from now on.

    https://www.screwfix.ie/p/lap-cosmoseco-fixed-fire-rated-led-downlight-contractor-pack-chrome-500lm-5-5w-220-240v-10-pack/861gx


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    #8
    kirving
    Registered Users Posts: 5,889 ✭✭✭kirving


    Sorry to drag up an old thread, but question very much on the same topic.

    Have 12V MR16 downlights, and looking to swap to 220V GU10 as they're far more available and cheaper than 12V LED.

    But the 12V ceiling fittings that I have are metal, and there is no earth to each one.

    I need to swap these out for plastic too while I'm at it, right?


    Previous 12V were just stiffed into the ceiling with no care at all, resulting in this...

    12V MR16.jpg




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    #9
    10-10-20
    Registered Users Posts: 6,650 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    Does the power to the transformer not have an earth? I can see the twin N & L lead in the photo, but the block connector where that attaches to- does it have earth at all?



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    #10
    kirk.
    Registered Users Posts: 4,958 ✭✭✭kirk.


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119889232#Comment_119889232

    Presume it does have an earth probably at the joint box ?

    Thankfully downlights have improved since the days of open halogens and transformers



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    #11
    10-10-20
    Registered Users Posts: 6,650 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119890133#Comment_119890133

    Presumably! Probably curled around the T&E cable.



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    #12
    kirving
    Registered Users Posts: 5,889 ✭✭✭kirving


    Nope, just blue/brown as above is all. Each transformer is connected to a separate junction box, which is then connected to just live/neutral (no earth).

    (The wires not visible in the pic above connect to one another.)


    The plasterboard ceilings is hung from metal studs, and each fitting (coincidentally? intentionally?) intersects a metal stud. Maybe for some mechanical strength, as 12V wouldn't need earthing anyway, but seemed odd to me.



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    #13
    zg3409
    Registered Users Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭zg3409


    An electrician can convert from 12 volt to 240 volt, but except for burnt ones I would go 12 volt led where you can.

    It may be very hard to access all these little transformer boxes and they won't overheat with led lights. Make sure you get good led lights with 50 watt equivalent light output and try one or two first ideally from local ekectrucal wholesale as cheap online bulbs can be terrible.

    At the time these were installed having an earth was not a requirement.

    Post edited by zg3409 on


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    #14
    kirving
    Registered Users Posts: 5,889 ✭✭✭kirving


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119890571#Comment_119890571

    Built in 2006 or so I believe.

    Really not a fan of unnecessary transformers and associated extra connections in the ceiling, so would much prefer 220V (Philips LED).

    But given that an earth wasn't installed originally (and 220V is going all the way to the transformer anyway) is there a requirement to add an earth now, or would plastic fittings be safe enough.



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    #15
    kirk.
    Registered Users Posts: 4,958 ✭✭✭kirk.


    2006 there might be no earth

    Unscrew one of the light pendants see is there an earth wire at them



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