Local Property Tax Increases

anewme · 29-09-2019 12:33pm #1

Just copped that the Council have voted to increase LPT by 7.5%.

Can we get a list of how the voting went?

Edited to add: Found the proposals here!

https://www.leinsterleader.ie/news/news/480658/kildare-home-owners-to-face-7-5-hike-in-local-property-tax-after-council-votes.html

Leg End Reject · 29-09-2019 2:03pm

That'll hurt when we have to update property values, when it was first introduced the market had collapsed.

daheff · 29-09-2019 2:27pm

disgraceful. This is what was always going to happen with lpt.

expect it to get more expensive over time.

Also i think its disgraceful that 13 councillors abstained from the vote. In votes like this an abstention is as good as voting for it. at least have the courage of your convictions to vote.

anewme · 29-09-2019 2:34pm

Given that both Dublin City Council and South Dublin Council have reduced by 15% it’s a bitter pill, especially as you say with the increased valuations.

Pure cop out.

Leg End Reject · 29-09-2019 2:59pm

daheff wrote: »

Also i think its disgraceful that 13 councillors abstained from the vote. In votes like this an abstention is as good as voting for it. at least have the courage of your convictions to vote.

This is the galling part, no doubt thinking ahead to the next local election when they can wring their hands and try to distance themselves from the decision.

n97 mini · 29-09-2019 4:43pm

I'm looking at the 2018 figures here and it seems €21 million was collected but €4 million was transferred to other counties, leaving €17 million. Since the council is collecting such a surplus of LPT, why do they need to increase it by 7.5%? Why not just keep more of what's collected in the county?

I also don't know why counties that are running at a loss (i.e. the recipients of cash from other counties) are allowed vary at all, especially down.

daheff · 29-09-2019 5:49pm

n97 mini wrote: »

Since the council is collecting such a surplus of LPT, why do they need to increase it by 7.5%? Why not just keep more of what's collected in the county?.

its to fairly redistribute whats collected across the country..... Otherwise Dublin would collect millions, have all the services and Leitrim would be a poor slum.

but it does raise a point about fairness.... if other counties are raising the minimum, they are also redistributing at the minimum too.... so disadvantaging the poorer counties.

Not to mind the taxpayers whose councils charge more.

ixus · 29-09-2019 11:48pm

Leg End Reject wrote: »

This is the galling part, no doubt thinking ahead to the next local election when they can wring their hands and try to distance themselves from the decision.

They wouldn't have voted for it a few months ago at the elections for sure.

More housing, higher valuations plus an increase. It will be well spent.

n97 mini · 30-09-2019 11:10am

daheff wrote: »

its to fairly redistribute whats collected across the country..... Otherwise Dublin would collect millions, have all the services and Leitrim would be a poor slum.

but it does raise a point about fairness.... if other counties are raising the minimum, they are also redistributing at the minimum too.... so disadvantaging the poorer counties.

Not to mind the taxpayers whose councils charge more.

I get the redistribution thing. 10 local authorities are collecting surplus LPT, but 21 are in the red. Tipperary and Donegal last year both received €16 million from other areas... Tipperary varied their LPT up by 10%, but Donegal did not. Makes no sense to me.

lleti · 07-10-2019 1:57pm

A lot of whinging about LPT being increased.

You're benefitting from the house prices increasing so you can't be complaining.

is_that_so · 07-10-2019 2:01pm

anewme wrote: »

Given that both Dublin City Council and South Dublin Council have reduced by 15% it’s a bitter pill, especially as you say with the increased valuations.

Pure cop out.

Dublin doesn't need LPT as much, because of huge commercial rates. It's an annual "solidarity" show that puts other councils under pressure to follow suit.

ted1 · 07-10-2019 2:03pm

anewme wrote: »

Given that both Dublin City Council and South Dublin Council have reduced by 15% it’s a bitter pill, especially as you say with the increased valuations.

Pure cop out.

Both have higher property densities and higher value houses = in take much more than Kildare council

Dublin councils take in so much they give 20% to poorer councils. They can’t justify charging more if they give it away.

ted1 · 07-10-2019 2:04pm

lleti wrote: »

A lot of whinging about LPT being increased.

You're benefitting from the house prices increasing so you can't be complaining.

You only benefit if you sell, many have no intention of selling. It’s a tax based on speculation

ted1 · 07-10-2019 2:06pm

n97 mini wrote: »

I'm looking at the 2018 figures here and it seems €21 million was collected but €4 million was transferred to other counties, leaving €17 million. Since the council is collecting such a surplus of LPT, why do they need to increase it by 7.5%? Why not just keep more of what's collected in the county?

I also don't know why counties that are running at a loss (i.e. the recipients of cash from other counties) are allowed vary at all, especially down.

Scroll across. Did They not give 4 million into the fund but took more than that out if it.

Checkmate19 · 07-10-2019 2:10pm

Lpt like yahzoo hit the only way is up. This country is banjaxed.

lleti · 07-10-2019 2:12pm

ted1 wrote: »

You only benefit if you sell, many have no intention of selling. It’s a tax based on speculation

If you don't want to pay, you're free to sell and move to another jurastiction.

NinjaTruncs · 07-10-2019 2:32pm

ted1 wrote: »

Scroll across. Did They not give 4 million into the fund but took more than that out if it.

No, "2018 Distribution of Equalisation funding" is how much they took out, which for Kildare was nothing.

NinjaTruncs · 07-10-2019 2:43pm

lleti wrote: »

A lot of whinging about LPT being increased.

You're benefitting from the house prices increasing so you can't be complaining.

You mean people who bought or still own the property when the valuations were set. I bought three years ago, my LPT will close to double next year but my house price, since I bought, hasn't nor will it double.

This is simply a Dublin tax ( and surrounding area). I get that not all councils have the economies of scale that Dublin has so they could do with assistance, but it doesn't explain why a lot of councils who take from the fund take more from it than their own residents pay towards their own council costs.

lleti · 07-10-2019 3:04pm

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

You mean people who bought or still own the property when the valuations were set. I bought three years ago, my LPT will close to double next year but my house price, since I bought, hasn't nor will it double.

This is simply a Dublin tax ( and surrounding area). I get that not all councils have the economies of scale that Dublin has so they could do with assistance, but it doesn't explain why a lot of councils who take from the fund take more from it than their own residents pay towards their own council costs.

You didn't think about LPT when you were buying? It was always going to be reviewed at the 5th year. So, you're lucky your house hasn't increased in value then and it's only doubling.

Joe Public · 07-10-2019 11:20pm

lleti wrote: »

If you don't want to pay, you're free to sell and move to another jurastiction.

I think the vast majority of people want to stay where they are but not pay extra LPT due to a controversial vote.

Orion · 08-10-2019 2:48am

lleti wrote: »

A lot of whinging about LPT being increased.

You're benefitting from the house prices increasing so you can't be complaining.

How exactly? I'm not planning on selling my house so how is the house price increase benefiting me?

Orion · 08-10-2019 2:49am

lleti wrote: »

You didn't think about LPT when you were buying? It was always going to be reviewed at the 5th year. So, you're lucky your house hasn't increased in value then and it's only doubling.

I bought in 2001. And the vast majority of people have their homes in Kildare long before LPT was even an idea.

anewme · 08-10-2019 6:23am

ted1 wrote: »

Both have higher property densities and higher value houses = in take much more than Kildare council

Dublin councils take in so much they give 20% to poorer councils. They can’t justify charging more if they give it away.

The exact same applies to Kildare.

They give away 20 percent too.

So that argument dues not stand up at all.

lleti · 08-10-2019 8:48am

Orion wrote: »

How exactly? I'm not planning on selling my house so how is the house price increase benefiting me?

You own an asset that's increased by X amount, your net worth has increased by X amount.

lleti · 08-10-2019 8:48am

Orion wrote: »

I bought in 2001. And the vast majority of people have their homes in Kildare long before LPT was even an idea.

Lucky you then, you've had a massive increase in net worth.

Sleeper12 · 08-10-2019 8:58am

daheff wrote: »

disgraceful. This is what was always going to happen with lpt.

expect it to get more expensive over time.

Also i think its disgraceful that 13 councillors abstained from the vote. In votes like this an abstention is as good as voting for it. at least have the courage of your convictions to vote.

There's another thread slagging off Dublin councilors because they reduced the rate, in the county that pays the most.

beertons · 08-10-2019 9:01am

I've always said it should have been on the size/sq foot of the house, rather than the value.

L1011 · 08-10-2019 9:10am

anewme wrote: »

The exact same applies to Kildare.

They give away 20 percent too.

So that argument dues nit stand up at all.

Calling it "give away" implies its voluntary. It isn't.

It isn't just the GDA councils that are in surplus - Clare has managed to be every single year.

That councils in deficit are allowed discounted rates is nuts.

Sleeper12 · 08-10-2019 9:51am

beertons wrote: »

I've always said it should have been on the size/sq foot of the house, rather than the value.

Totally agree here. OAPs in ex council mid terrace tiny homes in Dublin can pay more than a family in six bed rambling, detached house in Cavan on a plot of land.

lleti · 08-10-2019 9:56am

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Totally agree here. OAPs in ex council mid terrace tiny homes in Dublin can pay more than a family in six bed rambling, detached house in Cavan on a plot of land.

Which is the way it should be. People in towns have way more services.

ted1 · 08-10-2019 9:58am

lleti wrote: »

You own an asset that's increased by X amount, your net worth has increased by X amount.

No it hasn’t. Not until you sell it. It may be heavily mortgaged.

It’s speculative tax, any other form of accounting assets are valued at the lower or their purchase price or net realisable value.

Local Property Tax Increases

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