Star Trek: Picard - Amazon Prime [ POSSIBLE SPOILERS ]

02-09-2018 11:35pm

odyssey06 wrote: »

I wouldn't have expected the Federation to continue as it was across the eras exactly. It would mature. Just as say US foreign policy differed from Teddy Roosevelt to FDR. Teddy Roosevelt would have suffocated in Eisenhower America too.
But I could see how the TOS federation could become the TNG federation, technologically and culturally and how the alien species we saw in TOS could develop into their TNG representations - that's the continuity.
Discovery doesn't fit either with TOS or TNG on any of those measures for me.

Yet it fits perfectly well with a Federation that was happy to allow a genocide of the Founders homeworld.
Allowed Sisko poison an entire planet.
Looked the other way as S31 poisoned the Founders.
A Federation happy to let S31 exist at all.
Fits a Starfleet easily led to militarily controlling Earth.
A Federation willing to cut off entire planets and brand their inhabitants as terrorists, for refusing to bow down to Cardassian rule

Or do you also discount DS9?

AMKC · 03-09-2018 6:44pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Yet it fits perfectly well with a Federation that was happy to allow a genocide of the Founders homeworld.
Allowed Sisko poison an entire planet.
Looked the other way as S31 poisoned the Founders.
A Federation happy to let S31 exist at all.
Fits a Starfleet easily led to militarily controlling Earth.
A Federation willing to cut off entire planets and brand their inhabitants as terrorists, for refusing to bow down to Cardassian rule

Or do you also discount DS9?

Yet it fits perfectly well with a Federation that was happy to allow a genocide of the Founders homeworld.

I think most people in the Federation except for S31 and the highest officers knew of any attempt by the Federation to commit genocide. I think most in the Federation would be against it.
I think S31 is a necessary evil. Sure it would be better if it did not exist but then the Federation might end up having spy's from other races on the inside that want to take it down or learn its secrets. Its there to stop these and other threats that can not be done under the normal Federation rules. Its a bit like the FBI or MI5. There is lots there spy's do that we will never know about.

A Federation happy to let S31 exist at all.

I think most people in the Federation would be unhappy about it but very few in it know about it.

Fits a Starfleet easily led to militarily controlling Earth.

Earth was not militarily controlled and neither was Starfleet or the Federation.

A Federation willing to cut off entire planets and brand their inhabitants as terrorists, for refusing to bow down to Cardassian rule

The people on them planets were/are given a choice to leave the planet and go to a planet somewhere else in the Federation or stay on the planet under Cardassian rule.
They only became terrorists when they refused to do either and started attacking Cardassian ships and bases.

Allowed Sisko poison an entire planet.

I think Sisko had just gone a bit AWOL here and don't think the Federation would be to happy about it at all.

03-09-2018 10:04pm

AMKC wrote: »

Yet it fits perfectly well with a Federation that was happy to allow a genocide of the Founders homeworld.

I think most people in the Federation except for S31 and the highest officers knew of any attempt by the Federation to commit genocide. I think most in the Federation would be against it.
I think S31 is a necessary evil. Sure it would be better if it did not exist but then the Federation might end up having spy's from other races on the inside that want to take it down or learn its secrets. Its there to stop these and other threats that can not be done under the normal Federation rules. Its a bit like the FBI or MI5. There is lots there spy's do that we will never know about.

A Federation happy to let S31 exist at all.

I think most people in the Federation would be unhappy about it but very few in it know about it.

Fits a Starfleet easily led to militarily controlling Earth.

Earth was not militarily controlled and neither was Starfleet or the Federation.

A Federation willing to cut off entire planets and brand their inhabitants as terrorists, for refusing to bow down to Cardassian rule

The people on them planets were/are given a choice to leave the planet and go to a planet somewhere else in the Federation or stay on the planet under Cardassian rule.
They only became terrorists when they refused to do either and started attacking Cardassian ships and bases.

Allowed Sisko poison an entire planet.

I think Sisko had just gone a bit AWOL here and don't think the Federation would be to happy about it at all.

Except that Many in the upper echelons know about S31 and do nothing (just like Discovery's upper ranks allowing a bombing of Qo'noS)
Starfleet Intelligence is meant to be the Spy agency. S31 is off the books

TOS had a massive conspiracy of Rank officers collude with Klingons to start a war.
DS9 had Earth placed under martial law.

Again not saying the populations would have accepted but the "Federation" did it, much like the actions of Starfleet in Discovery.

So it's ok for the Federation to force entire planets to evacuate, refuse to allow them leave the Federation, and then call them terrorists for protecting their homes?

Was Sisko charged, demoted, relieved of command?

What I am saying is that for all the cries of "The Federation would never be so naughty, and I don't like it", we have multiple examples of just that.
Upper level decisions which would horrify (or at the least ferment protest) the majority of Starfleet and Federation civilians.
Discovery is telling a story from deep with in one of these stories, as opposed to from the outside perspective of the regular protagonists.

Oh and to Clarify, I do think that the Federation would of course have a S31
I understand the twisted logic in Starfleet officers thinking they needed to take control of Earth
The Maquis is a hard one as one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter, especially as they were protrayed in Trek.

I just don't understand the gnashing of teeth about Discovery investigating this side of the Federation

Agent Coulson · 04-09-2018 12:23am

Reunion pic.

odyssey06 · 04-09-2018 7:46am

Is that red eye or did Locutus of Borg photo bomb that shot?

Evade · 04-09-2018 10:52am

Could someone post a direct link? I can't see it on my browser.

04-09-2018 10:57am

Evade wrote: »

Could someone post a direct link? I can't see it on my browser.

https://www.reddit.com/r/startrek/comments/9cipl4/marina_sirtis_on_twitter_the_gangs_all_here_well/

04-09-2018 10:58am

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Reunion pic.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DmJNZVDUYAAO-_7.jpg

.

Inviere · 04-09-2018 3:24pm

Burton looks very close to how he did in All Good Things!

Cookie_Monster · 04-09-2018 8:53pm

Notice the two upgraded tricorders on the table :pac:

odyssey06 · 04-09-2018 9:01pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Notice the two upgraded tricorders on the table :pac:

Must be a good vintage of the Chateau Picard also

AMKC · 04-09-2018 9:14pm

Notice that Jonathon Frakes was not there. He must have been busy somewhere else unless it was him taking the picture.

AtomicHorror · 12-09-2018 3:21pm

Well, we have some confirmation on the setting. As suspected, they're putting the story right on the turn of the 25th century - 2399:

https://trekmovie.com/2018/09/10/year-for-setting-of-star-trek-picard-show-established-storyline-teased-by-ep/

I think I'd suggested earlier, this could be a good way to bring in a new 25th century series.

Not much else of substance in there, despite a supposed plot hint from Chabon about "metamorphs" which is pretty cryptic. Maybe a Dominion element?

12-09-2018 4:06pm

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Well, we have some confirmation on the setting. As suspected, they're putting the story right on the turn of the 25th century - 2399:

https://trekmovie.com/2018/09/10/year-for-setting-of-star-trek-picard-show-established-storyline-teased-by-ep/

I think I'd suggested earlier, this could be a good way to bring in a new 25th century series.

Not much else of substance in there, despite a supposed plot hint from Chabon about "metamorphs" which is pretty cryptic. Maybe a Dominion element?

Picard is cracking on with Famke Janssen, the sly dog

AMKC · 12-09-2018 6:08pm

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Well, we have some confirmation on the setting. As suspected, they're putting the story right on the turn of the 25th century - 2399:

https://trekmovie.com/2018/09/10/year-for-setting-of-star-trek-picard-show-established-storyline-teased-by-ep/

I think I'd suggested earlier, this could be a good way to bring in a new 25th century series.

Not much else of substance in there, despite a supposed plot hint from Chabon about "metamorphs" which is pretty cryptic. Maybe a Dominion element?

Would be great to see Star Trek back where it should be in the far future showing he potential for what the human race could become if we all work together instead of fighting over stupid things.
I I think it would be great if after the Picard series or even during it we get a 25th century series set on a new ship and it does not need to be the Enterprise but it would be cool if we could get to see an appearance or two from the Enterprise of the time. It could be a great way to see maybe some of the younger characters from Voyager, DS9 and TNG as well maybe as captains and engineers now.

Cookie_Monster · 13-09-2018 12:29am

Just don't **** all over the timeline create by STO*, a lot of it is actually decent and sensible (the background buildup).

*yeah I know it's not canon

http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/The_Path_to_2409

TheValeyard · 15-09-2018 3:21pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Just don't **** all over the timeline create by STO*, a lot of it is actually decent and sensible (the background buildup).

*yeah I know it's not canon

http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/The_Path_to_2409

STO is quite enjoyable. Was great having loads of the DS9 cast back for the new missions.

Kiith · 15-09-2018 10:36pm

I don't think i've ever been as disappointed with an MMO as i was with STO. It had it's good points, but i had always pictured Eve with a better combat system. Instead we got the weird hybrid, with an awful sector space and atrocious player combat (star ship combat was decent).

None of that will be taken into account in a new show though. It's all pretty mental...like something out of Memory Beta.

heebusjeebus · 18-09-2018 3:41pm

Interesting fan treatment of the potential new Picard series by the guys from Red Letter Media.

They have some great ideas to be fair. I'd love to see more of a galaxy class star ship with updated visuals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xe1hKZjCVyM

Goodshape · 24-09-2018 4:28pm

https://twitter.com/SirPatStew/status/1044244216677912576

pixelburp · 24-09-2018 4:46pm

He's looking a little old in the eyes - often the big giveaway of advancing years IMO - but lord I hope I age as well & gracefully as Stewart. Man's a legend.

Akiva Goldsman though, how the hell did he get near Trek?

AMKC · 24-09-2018 9:29pm

pixelburp wrote: »

He's looking a little old in the eyes - often the big giveaway of advancing years IMO - but lord I hope I age as well & gracefully as Stewart. Man's a legend.

Akiva Goldsman though, how the hell did he get near Trek?

I don't know but if that is him at the top of the table he seems to be very happy.

BrookieD · 25-09-2018 1:28pm

pixelburp wrote: »

He's looking a little old in the eyes - often the big giveaway of advancing years IMO - but lord I hope I age as well & gracefully as Stewart. Man's a legend.

Akiva Goldsman though, how the hell did he get near Trek?

Serve as executive producer on Disco and that will get you there.

TheValeyard · 09-10-2018 12:30pm

More News:

http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/star-trek-discovery/news/a867979/star-trek-picard-series-news-discovery-crossover-filming-date/

Filming to start April 2019

New show wont crossover with Discovery.

pixelburp · 09-10-2018 12:39pm

The article also mentions it won't be a limited series, with an eye for multiple runs. That's particularly interesting, as it presumably negates any theory this is to be a 'last hurrah' as such for Picard - unless Season 1 will be a 'passing the torch' arc of course...

IvySlayer · 16-12-2018 12:48pm

Q gets kicked out of the Continuum again and loses his powers, Picard takes him in and they live together like the Odd Couple, I would so watch the **** out of that!!

degrassinoel · 19-12-2018 12:45am

Me too :pac:

Frank O. Pinion · 31-12-2018 10:02pm

Deleted User wrote: »

They tried something new with Discovery and what happened?

How is another prequel, trying something new?

FGR · 31-12-2018 10:41pm

Frank O. Pinion wrote: »

How is another prequel, trying something new?

This. No more prequels please.

iLikeWaffles · 04-01-2019 9:13pm

The Q trial might still be going on, The Continuum and Crusher/" The Travellers" could be great storyline.

Wasn't Q about to tell Picard something in the final episode that might have began with "I...."

The theory that the continuum is humanity doesn't make any sense to me anyway because how could they have come back to save humanity in TNG final if it was already destroyed in their past, humanity could not have evolved into the continuum. Unless it never actually happened in the first place or "The Travellers" had something to do with helping humanity because of the importance of Crusher.
20 years to learn how to traverse through time is plenty for Wesley Crusher! Think it was 25 years in the final though so perhaps the timeline will be in between then and the last episode?

TheValeyard · 05-01-2019 12:56pm

iLikeWaffles wrote: »

The Q trial might still be going on, The Continuum and Crusher/" The Travellers" could be great storyline.

Wasn't Q about to tell Picard something in the final episode that might have began with "I...."

The theory that the continuum is humanity doesn't make any sense to me anyway because how could they have come back to save humanity in TNG final if it was already destroyed in their past, humanity could not have evolved into the continuum.

The Paradox.

AtomicHorror · 05-01-2019 5:49pm

iLikeWaffles wrote: »

The Q trial might still be going on, The Continuum and Crusher/" The Travellers" could be great storyline.

Wasn't Q about to tell Picard something in the final episode that might have began with "I...."

More like "....." *smirk*.

Optimus Prime · 09-01-2019 8:17am

Some small nuggets here, mentions "Picard's life was radically altered by the dissolution of the Romulan Empire," Kurtzman tells THR after the first JJ film, and also on appearance of other TNG cast members "Anything could happen"

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/star-trek-patrick-stewarts-picard-series-reveals-new-details-1174452

Smiles35 · 09-01-2019 8:53am

WHOOOHOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

iLikeWaffles · 09-01-2019 9:12am

Pretty cool, lets hope its not too short!

I could imagine the Discovery spin-off with Michelle Yeoh will be good, she was a bad ass in Discovery. Could be a perfect follow-up to Picard! Only rewatched Nemesis there the other night best TNG film imo, Tom Hardy is brilliant. Would have been cool to have a younger years with Tom Hardy playing Picard, past the age for it now though! Probably the only person capable of fulfilling the role of Picard.

seamus · 09-01-2019 9:42am

iLikeWaffles wrote: »

Probably the only person capable of fulfilling the role of Picard.

I don't know, you don't feel any break in continuity between James McEvoy and Patrick Stewart in X-Men.

It's a very different character, I don't think McEvoy would be a good young Picard, but it goes to show that appearance is only a tiny part of finding the right actor to play a younger version.

Also, Hardy is still only 41. Stewart was 47 when he started on TNG. Some fancy makeup could chop ten years off that, giving us a post-surgery officer Picard.

pixelburp · 09-01-2019 11:10am

If they did need to recast a younger Picard, I'd hope they lean towards another relative unknown actor instead of a big name. Not that Chris Pine was unknown himself, but he was already a movie actor so it was inevitable he'd try and wriggle his way out of future Trek commitments.

iLikeWaffles · 09-01-2019 11:29am

seamus wrote: »

I don't know, you don't feel any break in continuity between James McEvoy and Patrick Stewart in X-Men.

It's a very different character, I don't think McEvoy would be a good young Picard, but it goes to show that appearance is only a tiny part of finding the right actor to play a younger version.

Also, Hardy is still only 41. Stewart was 47 when he started on TNG. Some fancy makeup could chop ten years off that, giving us a post-surgery officer Picard.

He's another great actor I'd agree. He wouldn't be fitting for Picard though, but he probably could pull it off. Not too sure. By the time they got around to doing a young version, if ever! he'd be too old.

TheValeyard · 09-01-2019 11:31am

I'd like Bryan Cranston to play the role with his bald look from Breaking Bad.

Goodshape · 09-01-2019 12:10pm

Tom Hardy's a good actor but I never liked his casting as a young / cloned Picard. Just didn't buy it, at all. Wouldn't want to see that again.

Cranston would be too old at this stage to play a "younger" Picard. He'd be playing the Picard we saw in the TV show, or even the movies, and that would be problematic.

From the known names, I'd be happy with McEvoy.

Although if there are any (short) flashbacks I could see them doing some de-ageing CG work on Stewart. Probably the best / safest option.

Inviere · 09-01-2019 5:18pm

Optimus Prime wrote: »

Some small nuggets here, mentions "Picard's life was radically altered by the dissolution of the Romulan Empire," Kurtzman tells THR after the first JJ film, and also on appearance of other TNG cast members "Anything could happen"

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/star-trek-patrick-stewarts-picard-series-reveals-new-details-1174452

I wonder does that mean he's living life as some kind of 'humanitarian' then, giving his all to assist in the integration of the remains of the Romulan Empire into the Federation. Perhaps he had a Romulan wife who died in the Red Matter event? Who knows, interesting scope for the character though.

Smiles35 · 09-01-2019 6:01pm

Inviere wrote: »

I wonder does that mean he's living life as some kind of 'humanitarian' then, giving his all to assist in the integration of the remains of the Romulan Empire into the Federation. Perhaps he had a Romulan wife who died in the Red Matter event? Who knows, interesting scope for the character though.

The quote gives the wrong impression that this will include the JJ timeline, if you read the article fully it's clearer that they just mean were the last Next Generation picture left off, ie. with the Romulan empire in disarray after Shinzons rebellion.

pixelburp · 09-01-2019 6:16pm

I hope / guess the Romulan Empire isn't completely destroyed, as that'd be a bit reductionist given the size and complexity of their reach. Presumably they'll be exploring the power vacuum created by the Romulans inability to protect and control said empire, leaving it open to invasion and exploitation.

Goodshape · 09-01-2019 6:28pm

Smiles35 wrote: »

if you read the article fully it's clearer that they just mean were the last Next Generation picture left off, ie. with the Romulan empire in disarray after Shinzons rebellion.

Is it? Admittedly I'm speed-reading / scanning, but –

THR article wrote:

a cataclysmic event depicted in J.J. Abrams' 2009 Star Trek movie impacted Picard in a big way. In that film, written by Kurtzman and former producing partner Roberto Orci, it was revealed that Nimoy's Spock failed to save the Romulan homeworld Romulus from a supernova several years after the events of Nemesis.

[...]

The destruction of Romulus would also have extra resonance for Picard

Seems clear enough that they are referencing the '09 film, which Kurtzman co-wrote.

Goodshape · 09-01-2019 6:34pm

Would love to see Denise Crosby back playing Sela! And Wil Wheaton to give Wesley Crusher a decent epilogue.

I mean obviously you could shoehorn in any of the old TNG cast and it'd be delightful to see them, but those two in particular I think deserve a bit more than they got in the original run. (Presumably easier to get hold of / less financially demanding than the other regulars too :P)

Optimus Prime · 09-01-2019 6:36pm

Yeh defo sounds like the JJ film with regards the destruction of Romulus etc. But I’d imagine it’s the normal universe from that point on and not the changed JJ timeline.

Goodshape · 09-01-2019 6:43pm

Optimus Prime wrote: »

But I’d imagine it’s the normal universe from that point on and not the changed JJ timeline.

Oh, yeah. The timeline forked when Nero's ship arrived back in George Kirk's time, not when it left.

Destruction of Romulus was prime timeline. Nero and Spock then travelled back in time, causing the "Kelvin Timeline". Prime timeline still exists and Romulus is still destroyed (although Vulcan isn't!).

Only thing that might stand in the way of that is real-world copyright issues. I.e. if they're not even allowed to reference what was in that ST '09 script. Hopefully that's not the case.

Optimus Prime · 09-01-2019 6:46pm

Yeh exactly nothing will be changed in the universe except for Romulus is destroyed and Spock took off in the time ship and was never seen again.

If the pre JJ movie comic is canon then isn’t Data Alive in that ? Him and Geordi build that time ship, is that right or am I going mad.

Smiles35 · 09-01-2019 6:57pm

Goodshape wrote: »

Is it? Admittedly I'm speed-reading / scanning, but –

Seems clear enough that they are referencing the '09 film, which Kurtzman co-wrote.

Your right. On a re-read they do hammer on about JJ's film. The only quoted bit from Kurtzman is one sentence though. How reliable is THR I wonder.

Sad Professor · 09-01-2019 7:04pm

Ugh, I was hoping they'd just ignore what ST2009 contributed to the prime universe. I wish Kurtzman wasn't involved in this.

Star Trek: Picard - Amazon Prime [** POSSIBLE SPOILERS **]

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Star Trek: Picard - Amazon Prime [ POSSIBLE SPOILERS ]