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Survey before sale agreed

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  • 20-06-2018 2:37pm
    #1
    vumcsweeney
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭


    Hi folks,
    We are negotiating on a property in Sligo and were told by the estate agent that  the vendor wants any surveys to be done now before our offer is accepted / sale is agreed.
    This is rather odd as it's usually the case that any offer is subject ct to survey.
    We are relatively new to the whole buying process and somewhat on a steep learning curve. We like the house and think if we have to commission a survey anyway, then earlier is better but not even having accepted our offer and requesting this is odd. They also keep saying 'the house is sold as is'.  Does this smell a rat?
    Your thoughts are most appreciated.


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    #2
    tigger123
    Registered Users Posts: 4,446 ✭✭✭tigger123


    Wouldn't having the survey done before going sale agreed not be in your favour? As in, if there's any issue at least you know before going Sale Agreed ... ?

    Am new to this too btw.


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    #3
    spaceHopper
    Registered Users Posts: 3,968 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    They are expecting you to find an issue and that your offer will be based on this. Once SA you won't be coming back and lowering your offer based on the survey


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    #4
    Mint Sauce
    Registered Users Posts: 29,294 ✭✭✭✭Mint Sauce


    vumcsweeney wrote: »
    Hi folks,
    We are negotiating on a property in Sligo and were told by the estate agent that  the vendor wants any surveys to be done now before our offer is accepted / sale is agreed.
    This is rather odd as it's usually the case that any offer is subject ct to survey.
    We are relatively new to the whole buying process and somewhat on a steep learning curve. We like the house and think if we have to commission a survey anyway, then earlier is better but not even having accepted our offer and requesting this is odd. They also keep saying 'the house is sold as is'.  Does this smell a rat?
    Your thoughts are most appreciated.

    You get a valuation before sale agreed, but thats just part of the Mortgage process. From memory, a survey is not complusary, maybe the vendor dont want any potentional buyer to pull due to any issues, hence asking for this, but anyone can pull out up until contracts signed, even the vendor, regardless of survey or not.


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    #5
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    Survey before you agree a price. Would you buy a car before checking it out?


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    #6
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,513 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    vumcsweeney wrote: »
    Hi folks,
    We are negotiating on a property in Sligo and were told by the estate agent that  the vendor wants any surveys to be done now before our offer is accepted / sale is agreed.
    This is rather odd as it's usually the case that any offer is subject ct to survey.
    We are relatively new to the whole buying process and somewhat on a steep learning curve. We like the house and think if we have to commission a survey anyway, then earlier is better but not even having accepted our offer and requesting this is odd. They also keep saying 'the house is sold as is'.  Does this smell a rat?
    Your thoughts are most appreciated.

    It could be a case that the vendor wants to root out the genuine offers.
    I would be concerned though if they are letting 10 people pay for surveys. I wouldn't be paying for a survey unless my offer was accepted.

    All offers are subject to survey anyway.


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    #7
    vumcsweeney
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭vumcsweeney


    Thank you all for your answers.
    I did think it's better to be in the know early. We are buying a modest holiday home with funds released from our existing main residence's equity so don't need a survey for mortgage purposes but it's an old property which we intend to improve gradually over time so it's for our own peace of mind that it won't crumble any time soon.
    My reservation is so far they haven't given us any indication as to whether our offer stands any chance of being accepted. Granted it's not a huge expense and well worth every penny if indeed it gives us any red rags but still feel the money spent on surveys could all be down the drain if they wouldn't even consider our offer. Hope that makes sense.


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    #8
    vumcsweeney
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭vumcsweeney


    kceire wrote: »
    All offers are subject to survey anyway.
    I thought so but they insist that surveys are done before offer is accepted.


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    #9
    vumcsweeney
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭vumcsweeney


    Hitman3000 wrote: »
    Survey before you agree a price. Would you buy a car before checking it out?
    Thank you. I can see the advantage but what I thought was one puts in an offer subject to surveys (i.e. assume no structural / major issues such as flood risk, subsidence etc...) If the survey later reveals huge structural or other issues or the value is less than the offer (not relevant in our case), then the buying party may re-negotiate the offer to reflect the cost or some of the cost of rectifying those.


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    #10
    Wildly Boaring
    Registered Users Posts: 3,630 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring


    Can the EA get something more concrete?

    Agree to have survey done and that your current offer would be acceptable as it stands?
    I know it's the same thing in different words but you never know


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    #11
    bmm
    Registered Users Posts: 912 ✭✭✭bmm


    The seller obviously had a situation where the house went SA and the buyer dragged feet getting surveyor and then pulled out further down the road using survey as the excuse.


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    #12
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    vumcsweeney wrote:
    Thank you. I can see the advantage but what I thought was one puts in an offer subject to surveys (i.e. assume no structural / major issues such as flood risk, subsidence etc...) If the survey later reveals huge structural or other issues or the value is less than the offer (not relevant in our case), then the buying party may re-negotiate the offer to reflect the cost or some of the cost of rectifying those.


    I have no idea the cost of the house you are looking at. A survey however should cost circa 500 euro and be very detailed. Not an insignificant amount of money. It will do two things protect your potential investment and let the seller know you are genuine.


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    #13
    vumcsweeney
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭vumcsweeney


    bmm wrote: »
    The seller obviously had a situation where the house went SA and the buyer dragged feet getting surveyor and then pulled out further down the road using survey as the excuse.
    Thank you! This may have hit the nail on the head and I think it is then in our interest to commission the survey now.


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    #14
    vumcsweeney
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭vumcsweeney


    Wildly Boaring wrote: »
    Can the EA get something more concrete?

    Agree to have survey done and that your current offer would be acceptable as it stands?
    I know it's the same thing in different words but you never know
    We've said that but they won't give us a definitive answer on the offer. I think they are just sitting on it to wait and see if another better offer will come along. We've also said let us know within xyz days if the offer is acceptable but they just ignored any deadline and left it hanging.


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    #15
    vumcsweeney
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭vumcsweeney


    Hitman3000 wrote: »
    vumcsweeney wrote:
    Thank you. I can see the advantage but what I thought was one puts in an offer subject to surveys (i.e. assume no structural / major issues such as flood risk, subsidence etc...) If the survey later reveals huge structural or other issues or the value is less than the offer (not relevant in our case), then the buying party may re-negotiate the offer to reflect the cost or some of the cost of rectifying those.


    I have no idea the cost of the house you are looking at. A survey however should cost circa 500 euro and be very detailed. Not an insignificant amount of money. It will do two things protect your potential investment and let the seller know you are genuine.
    You are right. The house is in the region of 100k. So far they've been a very cryptic bunch to deal with.


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    #16
    vumcsweeney
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭vumcsweeney


    tigger123 wrote: »
    Wouldn't having the survey done before going sale agreed not be in your favour? As in, if there's any issue at least you know before going Sale Agreed ... ?

    Am new to this too btw.
    Hi, thanks for your reply. I am inclined to think this now. Just have been viewing a dozen houses and fretting that surveys costs will be racking up if it's normal practice that it has to be done before offer is accepted. However, I guess if I only survey the one I want to put an offer in, then it may just be bearable.


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    #17
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    vumcsweeney wrote:
    You are right. The house is in the region of 100k. So far they've been a very cryptic bunch to deal with.


    So circa 0.5% of purchase price to commission a survey. Money well spent imho. Also sets you apart from the dreamers and wasters. Good luck.


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    #18
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,513 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    tigger123 wrote: »
    Wouldn't having the survey done before going sale agreed not be in your favour? As in, if there's any issue at least you know before going Sale Agreed ... ?

    Am new to this too btw.

    Not really, in the same sense you'd be getting a survey done on every house you bid on. These surveys cost 300-500 a piece so you would be down a lot of money very quickly.

    Hence, you make an offer subject to survey, survey is then carried out and you then proceed or pull out if major issues are found and you cannot agree a fix with the vendor.

    That way you only pay for a survey on properties you go sale agreed on.


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    #19
    vumcsweeney
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭vumcsweeney


    kceire wrote: »
    Not really, in the same sense you'd be getting a survey done on every house you bid on. These surveys cost 300-500 a piece so you would be down a lot of money very quickly.

    Hence, you make an offer subject to survey, survey is then carried out and you then proceed or pull out if major issues are found and you cannot agree a fix with the vendor.

    That way you only pay for a survey on properties you go sale agreed on.
    Not really, in the same sense you'd be getting a survey done on every house you bid on. These surveys cost 300-500 a piece so you would be down a lot of money very quickly.

    Hence, you make an offer subject to survey, survey is then carried out and you then proceed or pull out if major issues are found and you cannot agree a fix with the vendor.

    That way you only pay for a survey on properties you go sale agreed on.
    Thank you for your reply. It is what I thought initially as well. There is still a gap to bridge in terms of what we are prepared to pay and what the seller wants so the survey might actually be an arbiter. I am pretty keen on this property and need to think with my head rather than my HEART a bit. Again, the survey might help.


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    #20
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,415 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Hitman3000 wrote: »
    Survey before you agree a price. Would you buy a car before checking it out?
    In today's market buyers are probably going to be bidding on a lot of properties. They are hardly going to survey every one purely to bid, they'd be down a fortune.


    My guess is a previous buyer went sale agreed and then found an issue during survey that made them either pull out or reduce their offer.


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    #21
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    awec wrote:
    In today's market buyers are probably going to be bidding on a lot of properties. They are hardly going to survey every one purely to bid, they'd be down a fortune.


    The OP has their head/heart set on one particular property . Hence my suggestion to survey first. If they were interested in multiple properties I would not have made that suggestion.


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    #22
    vumcsweeney
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭vumcsweeney


    Could I ask for your follow up advice on what surveys I should commission. I need a full structural survey rather than just a valuation survey. On the scsi.ie website which is recommended on this forum, I can choose from a dropdown menu of:
    Building surveying
    Residential / estate agent
    Property and facilities management
    They seem the most relevant categories but the filters gave me what seems to be names of folks working under estate agent umbrellas. I am not sure if that will go into the kind of details I need
    Your guidance is most appreciated as always...


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    #23
    Mark1916
    Registered Users Posts: 523 ✭✭✭Mark1916


    vumcsweeney wrote: »
    Could I ask for your follow up advice on what surveys I should commission. I need a full structural survey rather than just a valuation survey. On the scsi.ie website which is recommended on this forum, I can choose from a dropdown menu of:
    Building surveying
    Residential / estate agent
    Property and facilities management
    They seem the most relevant categories but the filters gave me what seems to be names of folks working under estate agent umbrellas. I am not sure if that will go into the kind of details I need
    Your guidance is most appreciated as always...

    A building survey is what you need, best way to do it is to get a list of the Banks valuation panel and most of the same firms do survey reports and we got a decent deal on the same firm to do the valuation for the Bank and the building survey! Most places will know what you’re on about when you contact them!


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    #24
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    You could be just giving the owner a free survey. You will have to give the owner details of all the problems in your negotiations and it will all be at your expense. He can just take the house off the market or look for mad money and there will be nothing you can do about it. It is a big enough waste buying a holiday home besides throwing money away on surveys.


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    #25
    Juwwi
    Registered Users Posts: 4,244 ✭✭✭Juwwi


    Hitman3000 wrote: »
    Survey before you agree a price. Would you buy a car before checking it out?


    This is stupid advice , so everyone thinking of buying a house should fork out €500 before they even know what sort of offer the seller is willing to accept .


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    #26
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,513 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    vumcsweeney wrote: »
    Could I ask for your follow up advice on what surveys I should commission. I need a full structural survey rather than just a valuation survey. On the scsi.ie website which is recommended on this forum, I can choose from a dropdown menu of:
    Building surveying
    Residential / estate agent
    Property and facilities management
    They seem the most relevant categories but the filters gave me what seems to be names of folks working under estate agent umbrellas. I am not sure if that will go into the kind of details I need
    Your guidance is most appreciated as always...

    You cannot get a structural survey unless you already own the house. A structural survey involves opening up works to inspect foundation depth and width. Wall condition behind finishes etc

    The standard building survey will make note of any significant cracks or settlement and instruct an engineers inspection if the sale goes through.


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    #27
    1641
    Registered Users Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭1641


    The terms "structural survey" and "building survey" are commonly used in this context. Don't get hung up on the terminology.Try to get a recommendation for a Surveyor or Engineer and discuss it with them. They should give you a written outline of what they usually cover in the survey. If you have any specific concerns about the property then tell them about it.Inform them that the vendors are insisting on survey before accepting your bid (rat smell).

    The survey may or may not include issues of boundaries, planning compliance and planning regulations. In this instance (given the vendors demands for surveys now) I think it would be very important to have these included.

    The survey can only be at the "visual" level as you do not own the property (eg, no lifting up floorboards, etc).

    As others have said, It is most likely that the vendors are aware of potential issues (whether structural or planning) or there has been been a previous survey raising these issues.Have you asked the EA about this? They may or may not tell you but there is no harm in asking.

    Have you engaged a solicitor for your proposed purchase? I suggest you discuss it with them at this stage also. Anyway, I suggest that you proceed with care.


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    #28
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I can see the vendors side on this. He is trying to avoid a situation where he agrees a price with you, takes the property off the market, and weeks later you get a survey done and demand a reduction on the agreed price, using the survey as an excuse.

    Even is nothing major turns up in the survey, there will always be issues that you can use to ask for a price reduction, if this is your intention from the beginning.

    Look at this another way. The vendor has set up a gateway, only allowing serious bidders through. If you like this house and want to buy it, its an advantage that he is filtering out spurious bidders and tyre kickers from bidding against you.

    It you want the house, get the survey done and decide your price accordingly. You will be negotiating with more facts in your posession and you will have less competition against you.


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    #29
    Metric Tensor
    Registered Users Posts: 3,724 ✭✭✭Metric Tensor


    Something unusual is afoot OP. I have been many years doing surveys and have never done one before offer acceptance.

    I would be 90% sure there's an undisclosed problem that they expect you to find during the survey and thus they expect you to pull out or significantly reduce your offer because of this.

    I'm going to make an educated guess/gamble and suggest there is either a boundary or planning issue. This is, of course, a total guess.

    If you do want to proceed get word of mouth recommendations of a good and thorough local engineer/surveyor and explain the unusual situation to them in advance. If you go this route beware that it could be 500 odd quid to find out that there is something catastrophic that will cause you to walk away from the purchase.


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    #30
    vumcsweeney
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭vumcsweeney


    Metric Tensor wrote: »
    Something unusual is afoot OP. I have been many years doing surveys and have never done one before offer acceptance.

    I would be 90% sure there's an undisclosed problem that they expect you to find during the survey and thus they expect you to pull out or significantly reduce your offer because of this.

    I'm going to make an educated guess/gamble and suggest there is either a boundary or planning issue. This is, of course, a total guess.

    If you do want to proceed get word of mouth recommendations of a good and thorough local engineer/surveyor and explain the unusual situation to them in advance. If you go this route beware that it could be 500 odd quid to find out that there is something catastrophic that will cause you to walk away from the purchase.

    Thank you very much for your response. Sorry I haven't been able to respond for a while. The site locked me out.

    We insisted on doing the survey after offer is accepted and they relented. A relief on my part as we really like the house and where it is but it was built in 2002 and things look knackered.


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    #31
    vumcsweeney
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭vumcsweeney


    The good news, I am delighted to share, is we are progressing to completion of the sale (touch wood, not counting the chicken before they hatch). We look forward to moving to the area but first year is likely to be getting the house fix up and spending as much time here as possible.

    So my next step is to do a total revamp of the house. It needs new kitchen, bathroom, flooring, replatering / skimming and painting with outside landscaping.

    Does anyone know a good supplier who have a good range of affordable kitchens / floorings / tiles / building materials in the Sligo area? Also any good painter / decorators / kitchen fitter would be most appreciated.

    I am pretty sure this is the wrong place to ask this sort of question and grateful if you could point me in the right direction if I should be posting this elsewhere.

    Best wishes...


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