'Ireland is the most corrupt country in the Western world'

Wheeliebin30 · 13-09-2018 10:32pm

Clareside wrote: »

Corruption is endemic in Ireland from the smallest corridors to the largest corridors. I grew up in an Irish pub so I knew that from a young age. I'm glad I didn't have a crystal ball back then to see how the time would come that that evil would visit my home and rip my family to shreds all because I wouldn't "play the game" as the solicitors quaintly refer to it.
I have been to every level of the Irish judicial system "in camera" to protect the state of course with no joy. Now i have submitted an application to the E.C.H.R.
If you haven t first hand experience of corruption and its consequences in this country then you are blessed but please don't deny its existence to those of us living through the hell of it every day.

Cool story bro.

gozunda · 14-09-2018 2:21am

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Cool story bro.

Whether a story or otherwise - you only have to go to Donegal for a real situation to that outlined tbh. The McBrearty case there is just one of many ....

DChancer · 14-09-2018 7:39am

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

Id add Malta, Greece, Spain to that list

Lets not Forget both France and Germany where Political Partys and Politicans including Mitterand, Sarkozy and Kohl were up to eyes in graft!

fyfe79 · 14-09-2018 7:46am

valoren wrote: »

You know those scenes around election time where the elected TD is elated and carried on the shoulders of others? Every time I see that I think they aren't happy that now they've been elected they look forward to the prospect of serving their constituents and making a difference but rather they are now on the gravy train with guaranteed pension nest eggs.

Alan Kelly when he was re-elected last time on a re-count. Looked like he was about to give himself a hernia with his pure elation. One of the most self-serving politicians I've ever seen. Like Lowry, another proud Tipp man!

patmac · 14-09-2018 7:52am

We are probably one the most transparent, pc, liberal countries in the world now, which means it almost impossible to get anything done due to red tape and the fear of offending anyone.

Gimme A Pound · 14-09-2018 8:01am

Has there been corruption in Ireland? Yes, a good bit unfortunately.

Is Ireland the most corrupt country in the western world? Nowhere near it. Idiocy.

People have got to stop lying. Information distortion is at worrying levels.

The Bishop Basher · 14-09-2018 8:20am

Personally, I would regard the police force of any country as a fairly good barometer as to the level of corruption in that state..

Garda corruption in Ireland is off the scale and absolutely nothing ever gets done about it. We just stick in a new commissioner to help cover up the previous commissioners cover ups.

Our Garda force has been embroiled in massive scandals for over 50 years now and nothing has changed.

Breath tests are merely the tip of the rotten ice berg, we have so many other examples of state backed corruption, but the breath test scandal proved that we're not just talking about a couple of rotten apples. It's the entire force from the top down.

And that's before we even start to look at the corruption scandals and cover ups within government circles over those same decades..

How anyone can claim we aren't an incredibly corrupt little backwater of a nation is beyond me..

beauf · 14-09-2018 8:34am

patmac wrote: »

We are probably one the most transparent, pc, liberal countries in the world now, which means it almost impossible to get anything done due to red tape and the fear of offending anyone.

You're not paying the right people.

beauf · 14-09-2018 8:47am

Gerald Crashing Equalizer wrote: »

Has there been corruption in Ireland? Yes, a good bit unfortunately.

Is Ireland the most corrupt country in the western world? Nowhere near it. Idiocy.

People have got to stop lying. Information distortion is at worrying levels.

If not the worst Ireland is certainly on par on a par with many countries. Any scandal is no longer shocking as it's usually turns out to be worst case scenario. Anyone go to jail usually not. If you want to get things done, a bit of influence on the background usually gets it done. In some cases People have to leave the country to get the medical care they can't get access to here.

We have a veneer of a working system. Don't have to scratch too far to see the reality.

Kivaro · 14-09-2018 9:35am

beauf wrote: »

We have a veneer of a working system. Don't have to scratch too far to see the reality.

Bingo.
It's rotten at the core. Just look at the solicitor's profession, the judiciary, the Guards; too little separation for a transparent, impartial system.
The insurance industry: it is a cartel and their business practices should be illegal.
The current political system in Ireland is a farce, with no real opportunity for change.
And there are many other examples in Irish life.

Guess who pays/suffers the most due to this corruption?
The tax-paying man and woman who works earnestly for a living

Gimme A Pound · 14-09-2018 9:49am

Rennaws wrote: »

How anyone can claim we aren't an incredibly corrupt little backwater of a nation is beyond me..

Why do Irish people have to be so derogatory about us though? And "we" all over the place. They're not referring to themselves however.

I'd say nobody is deluded enough to believe there's little to no corruption here, but what people are simply disagreeing with is the hyperbole - the misrepresentation of Ireland as far far more corrupt than it actually is. Another example of such nonsense is "Ireland is like a third world country" from people enjoying a quality of life those in the third world couldn't even dream of.

It's part of a narrative to put down Irish people by themselves. Post colonial hangover I guess.

The response to the above view is usually "Oh so we can't criticise?" Absolutely criticise, absolutely express dissatisfaction - unlike the people in many countries, we can do that. But have some perspective.

beauf · 14-09-2018 10:03am

Theres no hyperbole without fire.

suicide_circus · 14-09-2018 10:08am

the political lobbying system in the US is mind boggling when you look into it. Companies literally pay for legislation.

_Brian · 14-09-2018 10:13am

We get regular correspondence from politicians canvassing for favours in our office.
My boss shreds every one and if it persists candidates are no longer considered for positions.

zell12 · 14-09-2018 10:14am

patmac wrote: »

We are probably one the most transparent, pc, liberal countries in the world now, which means it almost impossible to get anything done due to red tape and the fear of offending anyone.

Look at the cervical smear scandal and the zero transparency and still the cover-ups

Wibbs · 14-09-2018 10:15am

Gerald Crashing Equalizer wrote: »

People have got to stop lying. Information distortion is at worrying levels.

Quoted for truth. Though people for the most part aren't lying, they genuinely believe this kinda stuff to be true. There's a weird paranoia afoot, mostly on the interwebs, but even in Real Life™ to some degree.

gandalf · 14-09-2018 10:20am

Is there corruption in Ireland undoubtedly there is. Are we the most corrupt nation in the Western world we aren't by a long shot. That narrative is an absolute fallacy pushed by fringe elements in society.

Should we strive and work towards a society free of corruption, of course we should but people need to stop with the amateur dramatics!

derfderf · 14-09-2018 10:41am

suicide_circus wrote: »

the political lobbying system in the US is mind boggling when you look into it. Companies literally pay for legislation.

A governor brought in drug testing for people on welfare, and awarded the testing contract to a company owned by his wife.
They don't even try to hide it over there, people don't even realise it's actually corrupt.

14-09-2018 11:08am

gozunda wrote: »

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Cool story bro.

Whether a story or otherwise - you only have to go to Donegal for a real situation to that outlined tbh. The McBrearty case there is just one of many ....

The cost of the Morris Tribunal was approx €70 million to the taxpayer.

Kivaro · 14-09-2018 11:10am

Ireland is not the most corrupt country in the Western World.
But there is a lot of corruption in the country in all facets of living here.
Then you have the nepotism and cronyism, which is particularly prevalent mainly (in my opinion) due to the small size of the country.

You could ask yourself why Ireland is so attractive to Nigerians and Roma Gypsies who come to settle and ply their "skill sets" here so easily with very little push-back. Corruption is systemic in Nigeria and criminality is pervasive in the Roma community.
Is the quality of life of Irish citizens going to increase or decrease with this type of outside influence on our lives?

It will be a couple of decades before the mess becomes unsustainable in this country and the solution then will be a lot more drastic then than enacting countermeasures now. It's the kick-the-can-down-the-road-to-our-children-and-grandchildren syndrome.

archer22 · 14-09-2018 11:31am

EdgeCase wrote: »

It's only a perception index.

Exactly and those that are corrupt and those that benefit from it aren't going to complain about it.

It's going to be a case of "nothing to see here, hey look over there" :pac:

xi5yvm0owc1s2b · 14-09-2018 11:36am

The Corruptions Perceptions Index for 2017, which ranks countries from least corrupt (New Zealand) to most corrupt (Somalia) placed Ireland at #19. So we're more corrupt than a number of other Western countries, including Denmark, Finland, Norway, Switzerland, Sweden, Canada, the Netherlands, the UK, Germany, Iceland, Austria, Belgium, and the USA.

But other countries like France, Portugal, Poland, Spain, Italy, and Greece rank lower than Ireland.

While we're not the most corrupt country in the Western world, Ireland's reputation has been damaged by cronyism between politicians and financial institutions that led to a financial crisis, corruption in the planning system, numerous scandals affecting the Gardai, controversy around the sale of NAMA properties, and so on. We could certainly be doing a lot better.

14-09-2018 11:39am

gandalf wrote: »

.......... That narrative is an absolute fallacy pushed by fringe elements in society. ...........

Lefties.

Who want to tax the feck out of folk who work and hand the cash to wasters. A form of corruption in itself.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 14-09-2018 11:49am

Augeo wrote: »

Lefties.

Who want to tax the feck out of folk who work and hand the cash to wasters. A form of corruption in itself.

Well shoe-horned in. Taxation is not corruption, as well you know. What you're asking for here is anarchy - good luck with that.

We're probably somewhere in the middle when it comes to corruption. Back in the day when Berlisconi was in power, Ahearn was an amateur.

EDIT - a quick look tells me we're 22nd, between the US and Japan. Yes, we're more corrupt than Trump County but not as bad as the honourable Japanese.

CrankyHaus · 14-09-2018 11:51am

Wibbs wrote: »

Quoted for truth. Though people for the most part aren't lying, they genuinely believe this kinda stuff to be true. There's a weird paranoia afoot, mostly on the interwebs, but even in Real Life™ to some degree.

Less than 10 years ago I remember we could look at the widespread paranoia and conspiracy theorising in the US and feel like it was a different universe. Nowadays it feels like we're getting closer to it all the time. The HPV vaccine scaremongering was an eye opener for me.

In my opinion the popularity of conspiracy theories in the US was a result of long term (deservedly) low public trust in the media and government. Unfortunately we've kind of gone the same way here. Most of the respectable media (Rte, indo, IT) alternates between wilfully dishonest and one sided reporting and apocalyptic warnings of the effect of "online fake news " on public discourse without any sense of self awareness. There are honourable exceptions but it is a disheartening vista.

archer22 · 14-09-2018 11:52am

The most worrying thing about corruption in Ireland is that there is a lot of admiration for it.
Even giving those involved in it grudgingly respectful and warm terms like "cute hoor".

This is something you do not see in other countries with a corruption problem..the corrupt might be able to operate there, but they do not have the respect of the ordinary people.

14-09-2018 1:02pm

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Well shoe-horned in. Taxation is not corruption.........

No, however facilitating wasters to be in receipt of relatively generous social welfare benefits for the duration of their working lives and beyond funded by those who do an honest days work is corrupt IMO.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 14-09-2018 1:14pm

Augeo wrote: »

No, however facilitating wasters to be in receipt of relatively generous social welfare benefits for the duration of their working lives and beyond funded by those who do an honest days work is corrupt IMO.

Again, shoe-horning.

Corruption is abuse of power. Meaning you have to have power in the first place in order to be corrupted. And those in power can only be corrupted by someone who has influence or money to offer.

In other words, not those on the dole.

14-09-2018 1:19pm

Ok, the claim that Ireland is corrupt was mentioned to be a fallacy pushed by fringe elements in society.

I agree with that and reckon who is doing it is .........

Augeo wrote: »

Lefties.

Who want to tax the feck out of folk who work and hand the cash to wasters. A form of corruption in itself.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Again, shoe-horning.

Corruption is abuse of power. Meaning you have to have power in the first place in order to be corrupted. And those in power can only be corrupted by someone who has influence or money to offer.

In other words, not those on the dole.

The lefties I'm referring to aren't on the scratch, they are politicians, SF & Co.
They have some power, they have to be facilitated etc as part of the democratic society.

Renegade Mechanic · 14-09-2018 1:22pm

Well I've made billions of Naira sending emails claiming to be an Irish Prince in financial distress, so my weekend's drinking is sorted anyway

'Ireland is the most corrupt country in the Western world'

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