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Disabled parking spaces

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    #32
    RainyDay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,925 ✭✭✭RainyDay


    Wishbone Ash wrote:
    I'm not trying to be smart but is there not a danger that the Equal Status Act would mean that persons with a disability should have the same parking facilities as everyone else?


    PS - AFAIK no one has a legal right to drive and therefore I presume that no one has a legal right to a parking spot.

    I'm not a legal expert, but I don't think the Equal Status Act would be interpreted in this way. There have been some interesting judgements recently where the Russell Court Hotel & Searsons pub have been obliged to put in wheelchair bathrooms. If one were to follow your logic, they would simply have been obliged to provide the same bathroom facilities for people with disabilities as everyone else.

    I think the principle of the Acts would ensure that everybody has equal access to (in this case) Dundrum Town Centre, regardless of ability/disability, gender, race etc. The practical impact of this principle is that disabled parking spots should be provided for those who would have difficulties with standard parking spots. Of course, this is not just an issue about having the parking space near to the entrance. It is also a question of the extra space around disabled parking spots, to allow a wheelchair to be lifted out and set up.

    There is also the question of Part M Building Regulations which states that all new buildings should be accessible for people with disabilities. Failure to provide disabled parking spots at all would be in breach of these regulations (though enforcing these regulations is another difficult and long, drawn out story). However, the issue in this thread was around the management of such parking spots, not the provision of the spots.


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    #33
    FranknFurter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,215 ✭✭✭FranknFurter


    Re the VAT / VRT stuff, converting a car/mpv/van for wheelchair use runs usually into the thousands. Its a cost a lot of people with disabilities cannot afford.
    Its hard to find work without transport these days trust me, and buying a car on the disability allowance (170pw approx) is an impossibility for a lot of people).
    The financial assistance is not an "incentive" its a neccessity to be able to get around and/or find work. Dublin Bus service is pathetic at best with their token accessible busses being put on routes where they are rarely used with no evaluation process, so public transport is not an option for a lot of PWD's.

    As a well-known and publicised example, there is one "accessible" bus which is on a certain route that a (independant) survey by a local Partnership showed is used no more than 10 times a year. They refuse to move this bus to a nearby route where 30+ people have said they would use it at least once a week. They have been asked time and time again about this, and in the meantime they went and put another "accessible" bus on a similiar route!
    They need to evaluate the potential usage required in an area before placing their busses, but they refuse to, I wonder why could that be? :rolleyes:

    As for the wheelchair parking in shops and centers, it is an absolute joke.
    Blanchardstown shopping center tonight, I personally witnessed in one hour six non-disabled drivers utilising these spaces.

    I think what most fail to realise, is that these spaces are not there just because they are near the entrance, these spaces have been made extra-WIDE so a wheelchair can be brought to the side doors of the car without scratching the car parked beside it.
    I have gotten to the point where if the car beside me if Im being driven somwhere and using a space, is not displaying a sticker, I will not bother trying to not let my chair bang off said car if it is in the way.

    (BTW, I dont care if you are disabled or not, to use these spaces you MUST be displaying a sticker, if you cant be bothered getting one, you must not need one imho).

    B


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    #34
    CathyMoran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 7,458 Mod ✭✭✭✭CathyMoran


    My father has a permit for my mum, he will not even use it when she is not in the car. I have also seen where cars have parked partially in on the disabled space so that it is impossible for my mum to get out of the car. It has got to the stage where I am suprised if there is a genuine car permit user parked in these spaces. Sorry, just my liittle rant, it is very fustrating for my dad a lot of the time.


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    #35
    FranknFurter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,215 ✭✭✭FranknFurter


    Believe it or not, there have been increasing reports of "people" printing their own (specially over xmas period) and using them.
    Most of the car park attendents are not trained to spot the difference, even if they do bother looking which most seem not to.

    B


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    #36
    Demonique
    Registered Users Posts: 2,822 ✭✭✭Demonique


    Moonbaby wrote:
    I think your being overly sensitive.
    Mostly I see muppets with no blue badge using disabled parking spaces.The only way to put manners on them is to shame them.

    Or call the police on them


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    #37
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users Posts: 24,960 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    Demonique wrote:
    Or call the police on them
    Most disabled spaces are on private property (e.g shopping centres, cinemas, hospitals, schools, workplaces etc.). It is not illegal to park in a space reserved for the disabled if it is on private property and therefore, there is nothing the Gardaí can do about it.


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    #38
    Pink Fox
    Registered Users Posts: 70 ✭✭Pink Fox


    It is probably not illegal, but it is selfish and inconsiderate. As well as paying the parking charge like everyone else, the blue badge owner also has to pay 35 euro per year to the Irish Wheelchair Association for this badge. Businesses themselves don't use their heads either - in a car park in Clondalkin, there is one disabled parking space just outside the chemist - it is taken up by two large wheelie bins - you'd think the chemist would be aware of people with disabilities. Woodies on the Naas Road has a huge carpark but they choose to display their decking in the disabled parking spaces. In the car park near the cinema in Liffey Valley, I counted 8 cars without badges parked in the disabled spaces, leaving only 3 spaces for those that need them.
    This is probably not the right place for this rant as the offenders wouldn't care enough to read a forum like this, but sometimes you just have to let off steam about this unfairness.


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    #39
    Pink Fox
    Registered Users Posts: 70 ✭✭Pink Fox


    Why are there so few disabled parking spaces in the car park in Tallaght Hospital?


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    #40
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 13,999 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    Pink Fox wrote: »
    It is probably not illegal, but it is selfish and inconsiderate. As well as paying the parking charge like everyone else, the blue badge owner also has to pay 35 euro per year to the Irish Wheelchair Association for this badge. Businesses themselves don't use their heads either - in a car park in Clondalkin, there is one disabled parking space just outside the chemist - it is taken up by two large wheelie bins - you'd think the chemist would be aware of people with disabilities. Woodies on the Naas Road has a huge carpark but they choose to display their decking in the disabled parking spaces. In the car park near the cinema in Liffey Valley, I counted 8 cars without badges parked in the disabled spaces, leaving only 3 spaces for those that need them.
    This is probably not the right place for this rant as the offenders wouldn't care enough to read a forum like this, but sometimes you just have to let off steam about this unfairness.

    It should be pointed out that there are people without a badge to display who are disabled and need to be near the entrance.

    I grant you it is highly unlikely that there were 8 of those there together :D .... but nonetheless we shouldn't jump to the automatic conclusion that because there is no badge displayed there is not a need.


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    #41
    RainyDay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,925 ✭✭✭RainyDay


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    It should be pointed out that there are people without a badge to display who are disabled and need to be near the entrance.

    I grant you it is highly unlikely that there were 8 of those there together :D .... but nonetheless we shouldn't jump to the automatic conclusion that because there is no badge displayed there is not a need.

    If they have a need, they should get a badge.


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    #42
    fergal.b
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 6,324 Mod ✭✭✭✭fergal.b


    Wishbone Ash wrote: »
    Even a Porsche 911 :D

    No never a porsche :D and I did check no blue badge surprise, surprise.

    I have also had the badge nicked out of the car so make sure your windows are up tight when you leave the car. Like the OP my wife also has MS and can walk maybe 20 steps at a push other than that we have to take the wheelchair. If we can get close to a shop she will have a go at wobbling in and you would think she was drunk to look at, we have had a few people make comments but those that take the time to say it to her face will be put straight and are usually apologetic. We have done this ourselves to a woman that jumped out of a car and came running towards us, it turned out she had left her mother sitting in shop in her wheelchair while she went to another shop and got held up, when she came out of the shop with her mother giving out stink to her we had to laugh :D It's true what they say "never judge a book by it's cover" if your not sure just ask.


    2012-05-06122720.jpg


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    #43
    plon
    Registered Users Posts: 31 ✭plon


    Pink Fox wrote: »
    Why are there so few disabled parking spaces in the car park in Tallaght Hospital?

    That hospital is a disgrace not only due to shortage of parking spaces but also poorly constructed ramps. As for the main disabled toilet near reception, the drop down arm rest is several feet away from the wc :-)


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    #44
    Mental Mickey
    Registered Users Posts: 10,638 ✭✭✭✭Mental Mickey


    fergal.b wrote: »
    No never a porsche :D and I did check no blue badge surprise, surprise.

    I have also had the badge nicked out of the car so make sure your windows are up tight when you leave the car. Like the OP my wife also has MS and can walk maybe 20 steps at a push other than that we have to take the wheelchair. If we can get close to a shop she will have a go at wobbling in and you would think she was drunk to look at, we have had a few people make comments but those that take the time to say it to her face will be put straight and are usually apologetic. We have done this ourselves to a woman that jumped out of a car and came running towards us, it turned out she had left her mother sitting in shop in her wheelchair while she went to another shop and got held up, when she came out of the shop with her mother giving out stink to her we had to laugh :D It's true what they say "never judge a book by it's cover" if your not sure just ask.


    2012-05-06122720.jpg

    Flash car - small brain!!!


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    #45
    Scruffles
    Registered Users Posts: 955 ✭✭✭Scruffles


    If they have a need, they should get a badge.
    some people have severe disabilities of all different forms which acutely affects their ability to use normal spaces but they do not meet the 'tick box' criteria of the blue badge,an uncle of mine in tallaght is one of them he is severely physicaly disabled from polio he had as a child as well as having his hip smashed when he fell out his bed trying to go to the toilet after recovering from a heart operation at tallaght hospital.

    in this country [not sure if ireland has the same rule?] we were handing out blue badges to able people over seventy five for so many years by default-ie when they get to seventy five they were given one no questions asked-will never know how anyone has the cheek to use them-saying its not their problem because the blue badge team gave it them is not an excuse.
    luckily they are supposed to be getting rid of this rule and making blue badges based purely on high need,this will also cut down on all the disabled bays that are constantly used up by people recieving the badge under this rule.



    @fergal.b,totaly agree! it is a disgrace that someone can automaticaly assume that just because [many!] blue badge owners are not full time or not users at all-of mobility aids,that they do not need a badge and thus must be drunk or something else equaly derogatory.
    am a blue badge owner because of having very acute outdoor and mobility issues from severe autism,learning disability,profound hyperacusis [including vestibular hyperacusis-will fall to the floor or smack right into something with any louder or repetitive sounds] severe epilepsy and todds paralysis-mine are acute enough that am on high rate mobility of disability living allowance yet many people including disabled people think blue badges [and high rate mobility allowance] is only given to and only needed by physicaly disabled people.


    have never personaly been aproached by anyone as am visibly disabled, plus am always with one or two support staff,its the staff of mine who have been aproached when they have gone in to fetch something from the supermarket as people see them leaving the driving seat running along,thinking its only the driver who gets blue badges.

    elderly people sat opposite us on the starbucks area have reported us many times so we get car park attendants coming to the car to look at the badge, then they want to see it outside the car on both sides so they bang on the windows and shout; they assume am going to be able to interact as well as speak with them-but they do nothing but trigger head banging and self attacking,sensory overload [lose all vision during and after this,cant process anything,cant hold self up] and epileptic seizures if am stressed for long enough,then staff come along,have to deal with it and have a car park attendant wanting to see the badge up close.

    am actualy a wheelchair user when in areas am able to access but hate the fact our need for blue badges are judged soley on whether we use a mobility aid or not,severe mobility/outdoor issues does not automaticaly mean its helped by a wheelchair .

    apologies for length of post.


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    #46
    RainyDay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,925 ✭✭✭RainyDay


    Why block one disabled parking bay when you can easily block two in one go! Taken outside the Dandelion on St Stephen's Green;


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    #47
    Mental Mickey
    Registered Users Posts: 10,638 ✭✭✭✭Mental Mickey


    RainyDay wrote: »
    Why block one disabled parking bay when you can easily block two in one go! Taken outside the Dandelion on St Stephen's Green;

    Seen that happen before. I think those spaces are a bit silly though??? What happens if the person has difficulty, say, getting in/out of the car onto their chair if it's at a different height??


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    #48
    RainyDay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,925 ✭✭✭RainyDay


    Mental Mickey wrote: »
    I think those spaces are a bit silly though??? What happens if the person has difficulty, say, getting in/out of the car onto their chair if it's at a different height??

    I'm missing your point - what's wrong with those spaces?


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    #49
    Mental Mickey
    Registered Users Posts: 10,638 ✭✭✭✭Mental Mickey


    RainyDay wrote: »
    I'm missing your point - what's wrong with those spaces?

    The kerb is a bit higher - a lot higher in some places - which would make it difficult for some people to get in/out of their cars.


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    #50
    RainyDay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,925 ✭✭✭RainyDay


    Mental Mickey wrote: »
    The kerb is a bit higher - a lot higher in some places - which would make it difficult for some people to get in/out of their cars.

    I see that now - no dished kerbs it seems.


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    #51
    Mental Mickey
    Registered Users Posts: 10,638 ✭✭✭✭Mental Mickey


    RainyDay wrote: »
    I see that now - no dished kerbs it seems.

    I know that I, for one, find it difficult transferring in/out of a car if my wheelchair is at a different height.


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    #52
    RainyDay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,925 ✭✭✭RainyDay


    Mental Mickey wrote: »
    I know that I, for one, find it difficult transferring in/out of a car if my wheelchair is at a different height.

    Ah, now I really get it. It's not a question of having dished kerbs to allow you to get up onto the kerb. It's a question of having your car and your chair at the same level as you exit the car. In fairness, I guess this would be pretty difficult to achieve for an on-street parking bay, particularly at a one-way section of the street. On an ordinary street, you'd have the option of parking in the opposite direction to traffic, so you disembark onto the road, not the path, provided traffic conditions permit of course. On a one way section, this isn't really possible.

    Have you seen any good examples of layouts for on-street parking that do suit you?


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    #53
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 13,999 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    Simply raise the level of the parking spaces, where a high curb exists, so that there is the minimum difference between the parking level and the curb level.

    There is also the difficulty for some who exit from the rear of a vehicle. They need a much longer parking space, as well as dishing on the kerb to allow access to the footpath.


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    #54
    Mental Mickey
    Registered Users Posts: 10,638 ✭✭✭✭Mental Mickey


    RainyDay wrote: »
    Ah, now I really get it. It's not a question of having dished kerbs to allow you to get up onto the kerb. It's a question of having your car and your chair at the same level as you exit the car. In fairness, I guess this would be pretty difficult to achieve for an on-street parking bay, particularly at a one-way section of the street. On an ordinary street, you'd have the option of parking in the opposite direction to traffic, so you disembark onto the road, not the path, provided traffic conditions permit of course. On a one way section, this isn't really possible.

    Have you seen any good examples of layouts for on-street parking that do suit you?

    Not really no. They're all pretty c**p. Best places are usually hospitals, most public buildings, or shopping centres.


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    #55
    osheen
    Registered Users Posts: 318 ✭✭osheen


    When i bring my dad out in his "pope mobile " it drives me mad trying to find a bay in the city centre as we usually have to park facing the traffic because stupid bollards around parking bays mean we never have enough space for the ramp.


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    #56
    Mental Mickey
    Registered Users Posts: 10,638 ✭✭✭✭Mental Mickey


    RainyDay wrote: »
    Ah, now I really get it. It's not a question of having dished kerbs to allow you to get up onto the kerb. It's a question of having your car and your chair at the same level as you exit the car. In fairness, I guess this would be pretty difficult to achieve for an on-street parking bay, particularly at a one-way section of the street. On an ordinary street, you'd have the option of parking in the opposite direction to traffic, so you disembark onto the road, not the path, provided traffic conditions permit of course. On a one way section, this isn't really possible.

    Have you seen any good examples of layouts for on-street parking that do suit you?

    I have to use a transfer board to get in/out of my car.


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    #57
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 13,999 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    A Ballynacally woman has been put off the road for 6 months for failing to pay an 80 euro fine for illegally parking in a disabled space in Ennis over Christmas.
    Yesterday the court heard she had no previous convictions for parking offences and along with banning her for six months , Judge Durkan imposed a fine of 750 euro and ordered her to pay the council's costs of 100 euro.


    http://www.clare.fm/news/6-month-driving-ban-motorist-parked-disabled-spot


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    #58
    Mental Mickey
    Registered Users Posts: 10,638 ✭✭✭✭Mental Mickey


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    http://www.clare.fm/news/6-month-driving-ban-motorist-parked-disabled-spot

    Good!!!!


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