What Is the real origin of the surname Miskimmins

owenc · 06-06-2011 7:30am

bobthefarmer wrote: »

I saw the Londonderry list and found the names very intriguing. I bet more thatn half are now American Names as well. I know Young, McAfee, McCracken, Wilson ( a past president), any many others. Why do people want to associate with Ireland? For most of us here, we do so once a year on March 17 (not me included, although I was in NY City for the big parade one year). It is good to call on your roots from time to time.

I don't know either I have family In America and they are the complete opposite to us they are complete nutters and they support Celtic and all this... They have all converted to be catholics because you see you aren't "Irish" if you aren't catholic! And there's one of them who's a republican type person and he's doing the tree and he's trying to link us up with this family Down south when we have absolutely no links with down south whatsoever he also thinks we used to be catholic I think my ancestors would roll under their graves if they heard him?! He thinks we aren't ulster scots aswell because our name Is I'n the Irish form but I don't care because we are ulster scots whether he likes it or not especially when they are I'n the muster rolls! And I hate it when you goto America and some ones will say o my ggg ggg grand uncle is from cork seriously I lce closer to Scotland and I couldn't give a crud! Americans dont seem to know much about northern Ireland anyway!?

owenc · 06-06-2011 7:35am

bobthefarmer wrote: »

I find that hard to believe. I have struggled with the question though. If there was intermarriage maybe, but direct conversion from something Calvanistic to Catholisism? By the Test Act of 1704, maybe they publicly paid tithe and this is what represents them as Catholic. OwenC spoke about that before in this thread. One side you make the Tithe and can have political autonomy, the other is you stick to your guns and become a second class non-citizen, the choice was yours. My relatives decided the later was not too nice and so made a move with their feet (emigration). Back to Scotland was a mean choice, so they bonded themselves to what was near slavery for seven years to pay for their passage, as mine did. He fell into the hands of an Awesome God who landed him at the feet of Abraham Ferree. He later found favor to win the heart of Abraham's daughter Rachel. People can be wishy-washy at times, but I don't find the Presbyterians and Huguenots to be that was at the time, it doesn't fit in history written of that time. I also know many Huguenots landed on there feet in Belfast and established quite a
industry in weaving and such (in the Plantation Era post 1650). My Humble
Opinion (to solicit ideas surrounding the subject) BobthePlanterFarmer

Well I believe them because the Catholics brought out this rule that if a Protestant married a catholic that they must convert and they must make their children catholic well I'm sorry but who the he'll do they think they are that Is completely shelfish and I'm pretty sure that half the catholic population In northern Ireland are really ment to be Protestants and In my opinion I think they need to be apologising for stealing members!

owenc · 06-06-2011 7:38am

Bob is your family originally from here or do you have other links from here that you would like to research?

owenc · 06-06-2011 7:43am

barbarax wrote: »

Owen methinks we will have to go to personal email this is becoming too intriguing. Like how did you contact the sister?? Why did she give you this info i.e. republican and gypsies.................................:(

Hello I was really interested on why they are catholic and why they are a different spelling to us and why they split off us.. So I found her on one of them ancestry sites and she said that her brother is a republican not Ira lol and is researching the family and found out that they were related to "planter folk from Coleraine" and anyway she said that their family had a big split I'n the 1890s and from us because we were gypsies or something and they wanted nothing to do with us well that is creepy because we have an ancestor who caused a row I'n the family who was involved with gypsies! But we are not gypsies (I think the family were too religious and that is why a row broke out) I think their story got mixed up! Anyway that is creepy that they changed names because of that and they are really related
to us! Mind you I dinno them from Adam Tay eve! I wonder if they were that desperate that
they also converted! She said that he did am article about the family too so I hope she shows me that.. She also mentioned something about planters hopefully they have undercovered something?!

owenc · 06-06-2011 7:47am

Oh yes bob I wouldn't mind reading it thanks.. How do you know your ancestor was a weaver? Were did you find this out?

owenc · 06-06-2011 4:31pm

erm i'm talking about the 1800s considering presbyterian churches weren't even created until then! I think the catholics did it as revenge!

Dun · 06-06-2011 5:19pm

Seeing that ecumenical law in the church comes from the Vatican, that doesn't even come into consideration. Anyway, I don't want to drag this off topic, and it was probably even against my better judgement to post that, but I don't see any reason to make spurious allegations against Catholics. And if you ever manage to go back a couple of hundred more years than you already have, I can guarantee you you'll find a whole lot of Catholics.

owenc · 06-06-2011 5:28pm

Dun wrote: »

Seeing that ecumenical law in the church comes from the Vatican, that doesn't even come into consideration. Anyway, I don't want to drag this off topic, and it was probably even against my better judgement to post that, but I don't see any reason to make spurious allegations against Catholics. And if you ever manage to go back a couple of hundred more years than you already have, I can guarantee you you'll find a whole lot of Catholics.

Yes i already know that, protestantism was created following Catholicism its just altered to the modern world and common-sense... Anyway i don't care my point still stands that it was inconsiderate and selfish of the catholic church to FORCE someone to convert into their beliefs/religion especially if they didn't beleive it.. its obvious all they were looking for was numbers because why else would they do that.. Actually thats what they were doing all they are interested in is numbers, sure when you leave their church they still keep you in their numbers, which in itself is selfish considering they decided to leave them! I know were i'd be telling them to go if they did that to me! I hope this rule still doesn't exist in the modern world does it? Because if it is someone should be doing something about it!

Dun · 06-06-2011 5:47pm

They did not and never have forced another Christian to convert to Catholicism in order for a marriage to be carried out, so please stop this utter nonsense. Given what happened after the reformation, it is hardly fair to criticise the Catholic church for what they would see as looking after the interest of their own. Also, how can they keep someone in their numbers? You're not given a membership number or anything!

Anyway, the only reason I came into this at all was because I am sorely disappointed by the way you talk about Catholicism in the same way someone might talk about something they found stuck to the bottom of their shoe.

owenc · 06-06-2011 5:52pm

Dun wrote: »

They did not and never have forced another Christian to convert to Catholicism in order for a marriage to be carried out, so please stop this utter nonsense. Given what happened after the reformation, it is hardly fair to criticise the Catholic church for what they would see as looking after the interest of their own. Also, how can they keep someone in their numbers? You're not given a membership number or anything!

Anyway, the only reason I came into this at all was because I am sorely disappointed by the way you talk about Catholicism in the same way someone might talk about something they found stuck to the bottom of their shoe.

Yes they do a protestant must convert to marry a catholic in a catholic church and the protestant must make their kids become catholics not protestant or else they will not be married! That is selfish if you ask me! Now i don't know if this rule still exists but it did exist up until not very long ago! I don't see any protestant churches doing this! No i do not i don't have any problem with them its just rules like this that annoy me! Also they are very much into members as you can see they claim to have 1 billion members but i do not believe that is true at all because as i have already said they include members who have left in those figures or lapsed catholics.

Dun · 06-06-2011 5:59pm

No, they do not have to convert, and never have done. The Catholic party must promise to (a) stay within the church, (b) raise the children as Catholic, and (c) make sure that the non-Catholic party is aware of this well in advance of the marriage. This is for the marriage itself, afterwards sure it's anybody's game as to what they do.

owenc · 06-06-2011 6:06pm

Dun wrote: »

No, they do not have to convert, and never have done. The Catholic party must promise to (a) stay within the church, (b) raise the children as Catholic, and (c) make sure that the non-Catholic party is aware of this well in advance of the marriage. This is for the marriage itself, afterwards sure it's anybody's game as to what they do.

Thats hardly fair, what if the protestants want to baptise their children protestant? I think that matter has nothing to do with the catholic church and i think that they should remove that rule and let people practise whatever religion they like not what they say! Hmm and what does that mean?

Dun · 06-06-2011 6:11pm

They are free to do what they want afterwards. No excommunication, no annulment of marriage. Nothing. Again, this is way off topic, and I think we should leave it at that.

owenc · 06-06-2011 6:15pm

Dun wrote: »

They are free to do what they want afterwards. No excommunication, no annulment of marriage. Nothing. Again, this is way off topic, and I think we should leave it at that.

Well it clearly says above that they must raise their kids catholic.. but w/e i don't care about this matter i'm discussing family trees right now.

Dun · 06-06-2011 6:20pm

No, it says the Catholic party must promise it at the time of marriage. Even if s/he doesn't the marriage is still valid, just it's harder to get a priest to do it. And they're free to do whatever they want together afterwards. I've seen families in the census with mixed marriages, with all the boys raised as one religion and all the girls as another (to add a valid genealogy connection

)

owenc · 06-06-2011 6:22pm

Dun wrote: »

No, it says the Catholic party must promise it at the time of marriage. Even if s/he doesn't the marriage is still valid, just it's harder to get a priest to do it. And they're free to do whatever they want together afterwards. I've seen families in the census with mixed marriages, with all the boys raised as one religion and all the girls as another (to add a valid genealogy connection )

Well i still think that that is selfish of them what does it matter to them its not them that will have to suffer when they are older! Yes i know thats the way some of my family are on my mothers side... (my wide family like grandmothers etc not my parental one)

barbarax · 06-06-2011 7:32pm

Owen I have come to the conclusion that you are a wind up merchant.........but you do make me laugh. Have you found out yet how my Miskimmin family is related to yours?

owenc · 06-06-2011 10:14pm

Yours no but I'm sure if we can get them both traced back to Scotland that they would be from the same family.. Do you know were the planters cane from in your area who planted your area? My area was planted from the southwest of Scotland (only 20 miles from donaghdee) I think they highered tenants from roxboughshire , selkshire and kirkcudbrightshire ... My area is unique for my location because we were planted bt tenants from south Scotland and usually the down coast and south Antrim would get tenants from there most tenants here were from Ayrshire but we were unique and got south west Scotland .. Interestingly there were also some English tenants my g grandmothers family seem to be from warwickshire!? Have you any suspicions on were your Miskimmins are from? I suspect mines are somewhere in-between rixbourgj and selkshire ... Btw what way is yours Spelt again? I'll find out Soon when I goto proni! Edit: you can read up about Sir Thomas Phillis who created limavady well he brought over 25 English families and it would seem that my g grandmothers family Is one of them : http://www.ulsterancestry.com/ShowFreePage.php?id=111 as you can see there they are the Thomas smith in the swords and pikes is my ggggggg grandfather and I think he was from warwickshire but what's interesting is the family lived in the exact same townland ever since they had arrived And they did not once leave! But unfortunately my g grandmother was the last one to have the name and it is now extinct

barbarax · 06-06-2011 10:46pm

Owen I would suspect around the same area south west scotland, Donaghadee is the nearest point to Portpatrick in Scotland, apparently my both great grandas would have went over in the summer months to bring in the harvest. Like yourself my lot haven't moved out of the Donaghadee area, although my brother lives in Newtownards................8 miles away!!! I also researched my mother's maiden name Strain and same thing got back to 1750 still living in Donaghadee and still labourers. Strain came from Scotland as well. I got a lot of my info on the ancestry ireland site cost me a fortune. Also lady nearby transcripts church records for NIFHS and she got me all the church records.:cool:

owenc · 06-06-2011 10:55pm

barbarax wrote: »

Owen I would suspect around the same area south west scotland, Donaghadee is the nearest point to Portpatrick in Scotland, apparently my both great grandas would have went over in the summer months to bring in the harvest. Like yourself my lot haven't moved out of the Donaghadee area, although my brother lives in Newtownards................8 miles away!!! I also researched my mother's maiden name Strain and same thing got back to 1750 still living in Donaghadee and still labourers. Strain came from Scotland as well. I got a lot of my info on the ancestry ireland site cost me a fortune. Also lady nearby transcripts church records for NIFHS and she got me all the church records.:cool:

Yes I would think then that are families in Scotland are probably the same ones and they broke up over the years.. Yes I can see Scotland from my house too infact right Now I can
see the lighthouse flashing at islay mind you I'm seeing a different side of Scotland to you! Yes
I think it's amazing that the families have stayed in the exact same area and it's even more
amazing that my g grandmothers family coming over from England and living on the exact
(I'm serious ) farm for well over 300 years without moving they mustve Been very close and at
the same time mad coming over here from england (why you'd move here from England!) I
think they're half mad especially with the woodkern and all it mustve been very scary! I
couldnt believe they were living in the exact same farm for 300 years ever since they got off
the boat from England when I did the family tree! My DNA test would be interesting to see!

pinkypinky · 06-06-2011 11:17pm

Guys - I know I'm not the forum mod but this is straying really off topic,
and frankly I think it's run its course as well. If you are related, I think you should take your conversation to private email.

Pinky

owenc · 06-06-2011 11:22pm

pinkypinky wrote: »

Guys - I know I'm not the forum mod but this is straying really off topic,
and frankly I think it's run its course as well. If you are related, I think you should take your conversation to private email.

Pinky

Hi that's alright we can pm! Can you please delete it then as I don't want other family members finding this and harassing me! Yes it's not fair they're awful !

bobthefarmer · 07-06-2011 8:50pm

owenc wrote: »

I don't know either I have family In America and they are the complete opposite to us they are complete nutters and they support Celtic and all this... They have all converted to be catholics because you see you aren't "Irish" if you aren't catholic! And there's one of them who's a republican type person and he's doing the tree and he's trying to link us up with this family Down south when we have absolutely no links with down south whatsoever he also thinks we used to be catholic I think my ancestors would roll under their graves if they heard him?! He thinks we aren't ulster scots aswell because our name Is I'n the Irish form but I don't care because we are ulster scots whether he likes it or not especially when they are I'n the muster rolls! And I hate it when you goto America and some ones will say o my ggg ggg grand uncle is from cork seriously I lce closer to Scotland and I couldn't give a crud! Americans dont seem to know much about northern Ireland anyway!?

Owen, Some of us (Americans) are lovers of history. You are right when you say most do not know anything of Northern Ireland. Most (98%) could not determine Ireland is not part of the UK. Don't include me in the batch. I do not wear green on Saint Patty's day and call myself Ire'sh for a day, give it a rest, and lets proceed with history, not dwellin on angst against others. What is a "Republican Type" in your lingo?

My name and the names of many Americans (Canadians, Mexicans, included) comes from Ulster. We typically apply the Term "Scots-Irish" (or Scotch-Irish as I prefer) to people from the Plantation Era of Northern Ireland. Likely 250,000 had reached the shores of the Colonies prior to the War for Independence (1776-1781). These people were supporters of the Revolution and fought for independence, just as NI has fought for theirs for many years. It is not kind to consider us in a generalization. We are unique to the core and raised by our beliefs. Many Presbyterian, Methodist, Baptists, Lutherans, Mennonites, Quakers, Adventists, Assembly, and Yes, some Catholic (admittedly few) have backgrounds like mine.

I do not know a lot about history of modern Northern Ireland, but I do know that you too have languished too long without independence. I remember the skirmishes you had, when I was a youth.

bobthefarmer · 07-06-2011 9:26pm

pinkypinky wrote: »

Guys - I know I'm not the forum mod but this is straying really off topic,
and frankly I think it's run its course as well. If you are related, I think you should take your conversation to private email.

Pinky

We still can go on a bit, hold your horses.
This is just getting amusing.
bob the Ulster Farmer
:pac:

owenc · 07-06-2011 10:42pm

Well ok then if you insist! I just hope my relatives don't find this or it'll be he'll!!

owenc · 07-06-2011 10:46pm

Oh and barbarax we have worked it out it turns out his gggggg grandfather and my ggg grandfather are brothers and his ggg grandfather converted and changed To be a catholic and changed the name!! And yes his gggggg grandfather is equivalent to my ggg grandfather despite the fact that he is 30 years older than me or something ... I always find that interesting how younger folk can be closer to the aulder folk than the actual auld folk are!! Because in my line if I trace back to my gggggg grandfather I will get into the 1690s while he's in the 1810s I must be more Scottish than him in the Muskimmins line by the sounds of things!!

owenc · 07-06-2011 11:17pm

Oh and bob well to me a republican is someone who wants a united Ireland, is obsessed with the Irish culture, obsessed with galeic and obsessed with Irish music Now dependibg on your qualities i might not Say you are one but most of the tine when I see a person Wearing a Gaelic top I think so.. And what is that all about it's as if they are wearing it to say to the Protestants in your face!! The Protestants do it too with rangers tops! Yes northern Ireland people are really that pathetic! Anyway let's get back to the Muskimmins! Oh and the Americans when I go over I just let them get on with it because i couldn't be bothers explaining everything muhuhua

owenc · 08-06-2011 8:06am

Barvarax I have looked In the 1841 and 1851 census and it seems that the name is very common In Wigtownshire so I'm probably from one of those families for definate and you probably are too! http://freecen.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl theres a clan of them In mochrume so we maybe relayed to them... Btw don't be putting In Miskimmons because it won't work that is the northern Ireland version of the name put In the Scottish version which is cumming... I'm very surprised as I thought there was no cumming In Wigtownshire! The proni estate records will hopefully tell me which one of from though!

Dades · 08-06-2011 11:53am

This thread is hideously off topic but since most of the off-topicness revolves around the OP himself, I don't see the harm in letting it flow.

If someone want a seperate discussion moved out of this thread let me know.

bobthefarmer · 09-06-2011 12:05am

Dades wrote: »

This thread is hideously off topic but since most of the off-topicness revolves around the OP himself, I don't see the harm in letting it flow.

To bring things in order, here is what I have learned. The original name is Miskimmin and it comes from Lowland Scotland, likely from one or more planters from 1610-1704, or from later immigrations from Scotland. Once in Ulster, some added an "s" for plurality (ha!) or others had their names shortened to an Irish version as Cummins (if Protestent or Presbyterian) or Cummings (if Catholic). Is that about right?

Let me tell you how this name has digressed in America. The first pioneer settler (we think was David Miskimmins in 1748, but could be proven wrong) spelled his name Miskimmins, but signed it around 1796 as Miskimen. His son's used a variety of signatures on this same document as Miskimins, Miskimin, Miskimen, but not Miskimon. Other later immigrations did use the later Miskimon, but we do not find it within our family group. Many times, in a variety of names, regardless of country of lineage, the double consonants and final s was dropped from names, for a new Americanized simple spelling. It was supposed to be easier on the reader, but really it was the lax spelling habits on the frontier. Our family currently uses no less than four spellings (Miskimens, Meskimen, Miskimins, and Miskimen, in increasing order of usage). There were later immigrations, especially in Canada that kept the original spelling with and without an s.

We also see Miskimmins and Miskimmons in Scotland. How many have moved from Ulster to Scotland?

That is my synopsis to bring this thing full scall back on track. Can anybody correct me on it? We want to keep the moderators happy:D Bob the Ulster Planter

owenc · 09-06-2011 7:06am

Here you go: http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Miskimmon as you can see it means son of comyn which is basically cumming so anyone who the name probably had Scottish ancestors who were cumming and changed to that spelling! Oh and they say it's Irish well it's irish but the people who have it are of Scottish descent bit Irish descent it's confusing! Oh and you said about the religion thing well the Presbyterians wouldve used cummins because that's a variant of Miskimmins which is a variant of cumming then the Anglicans wouldve used Cummings because that's the English version... You'll probably not get this but it's worth a try! Here's a little bit about the clan and as you can see miskimmins is there: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clan_Cumming and just so you don't get it again your ancestors wouldve used cumming which is the Scottish version once they got to ni they wouldve changed it to Miskimmins which means son of comyn and then they may have kept it or changed it and that's why we are In this situation! As you can see the name is of highland origin but it is distributed all over Scotland bur don't be looking there because no planters cane from there it is highly likely that yours came from
The same area as mines because of where we were planted from

barbarax · 09-06-2011 7:44am

bobthefarmer wrote: »

Dades wrote: »

This thread is hideously off topic but since most of the off-topicness revolves around the OP himself, I don't see the harm in letting it flow.

To bring things in order, here is what I have learned. The original name is Miskimmin and it comes from Lowland Scotland, likely from one or more planters from 1610-1704, or from later immigrations from Scotland. Once in Ulster, some added an "s" for plurality (ha!) or others had their names shortened to an Irish version as Cummins (if Protestent or Presbyterian) or Cummings (if Catholic). Is that about right?

Let me tell you how this name has digressed in America. The first pioneer settler (we think was David Miskimmins in 1748, but could be proven wrong) spelled his name Miskimmins, but signed it around 1796 as Miskimen. His son's used a variety of signatures on this same document as Miskimins, Miskimin, Miskimen, but not Miskimon. Other later immigrations did use the later Miskimon, but we do not find it within our family group. Many times, in a variety of names, regardless of country of lineage, the double consonants and final s was dropped from names, for a new Americanized simple spelling. It was supposed to be easier on the reader, but really it was the lax spelling habits on the frontier. Our family currently uses no less than four spellings (Miskimens, Meskimen, Miskimins, and Miskimen, in increasing order of usage). There were later immigrations, especially in Canada that kept the original spelling with and without an s.

We also see Miskimmins and Miskimmons in Scotland. How many have moved from Ulster to Scotland?

That is my synopsis to bring this thing full scall back on track. Can anybody correct me on it? We want to keep the moderators happy:D Bob the Ulster Planter

I would agree with you Bob Miskimmin is the proper spelling, however I believe it comes from Skimmin the Mi added later. In Scotland there were also Skimming which is more likely where the Cumming comes from Skimmin went to Cummin the Mi is a bit like the Mc/Mac in Scottish, I would not see myself as Scots Irish, rather Ulster Scot.;)

owenc · 10-06-2011 4:26pm

Oh and i have just recently bought the scotch irish origins book i don't know if yous would be intrested but i attached it. It has several muster rolls and my ancestor is in page 49 under lady mcclellands churchlands the surname is very close to miskimmins as you can see, lady mcclelland is a montgomery from the ards peninsula and she married robert mcclelland who owned the haberdashers and the clothworkers located in coleraine borough her lands were just above the clothworkers estate, she highered tenants from kirkcudbrightshire it says so we must be from there! It has been a good source as i have been able to find three of my families in the muster rolls and work out where they originated just by looking at the area it is magnificent! Whats interesting is in Coleraine the Scots outnumbered the irish by 4 times to 1! Immigration was so frequent that they had to introduce a ferry system!

mod: [removed link to book]

barbarax · 10-06-2011 6:33pm

Hi Owen thanks for posting this will have to print it out and read it properly. Where did you get it do they have the same for Antrim and Down, I would be interested in buying them.:cool:

owenc · 10-06-2011 7:01pm

barbarax wrote: »

Hi Owen thanks for posting this will have to print it out and read it properly. Where did you get it do they have the same for Antrim and Down, I would be interested in buying them.:cool:

Erm i don't think so unfortunately because the records are very sparse in county down. The only reason we have records in because the londonderry plantation was more important so they had to record everything. You could probably get the muster rolls though.

barbarax · 10-06-2011 7:23pm

do you have a family tree done out Owen. The Samuel and Susanna are these your ancestors

owenc · 10-06-2011 7:30pm

barbarax wrote: »

do you have a family tree done out Owen. The Samuel and Susanna are these your ancestors

Yes gggggg grandparents why?? Where did you see that? I think he was born about 1730. The william is my ggggg grandfather.

barbarax · 10-06-2011 8:00pm

when I first started doing the family tree they were the first Miskimmin I found on the family search site

owenc · 10-06-2011 8:05pm

barbarax wrote: »

when I first started doing the family tree they were the first Miskimmin I found on the family search site

Awk rite well i never knew that because i had to goto the church records to get that info! Can you provide a link because i canny find them on familysearch?

barbarax · 10-06-2011 8:44pm

owenc wrote: »

Awk rite well i never knew that because i had to goto the church records to get that info! Can you provide a link because i canny find them on familysearch?

sorry Owen it wasn't familysearch it was emerald ancestors:o

owenc · 10-06-2011 8:59pm

barbarax wrote: »

sorry Owen it wasn't familysearch it was emerald ancestors:o

oh i see well i needin bother checkin that now! :mad: I never thought of putting that in at the time! Are you still a member what does it say.

owenc · 11-06-2011 1:13pm

Just been looking at some of the surname sites and it seems that the k was used instead of C back then as they just wrote it as it just as it sounded so miskimmings could be miscummings or something like that and maybe thats why we are finding the "k" being invovled in the records.... for example my ancestor was writtin as "kymin" in the muster roll that could've been Cumin which is seen along the borders area of england/scotland, a "y" was also used to replace the "u" for some odd reason for example "keeyming" would've been Cuming etc... I think that is very odd but whatever! That mean that my ancestors were cummings after all...

dubhthach · 12-06-2011 7:24pm

owenc wrote: »

Just been looking at some of the surname sites and it seems that the k was used instead of C back then as they just wrote it as it just as it sounded so miskimmings could be miscummings or something like that and maybe thats why we are finding the "k" being invovled in the records.... for example my ancestor was writtin as "kymin" in the muster roll that could've been Cumin which is seen along the borders area of england/scotland, a "y" was also used to replace the "u" for some odd reason for example "keeyming" would've been Cuming etc... I think that is very odd but whatever! That mean that my ancestors were cummings after all...

you have to remember that at this stage english wasn't that standardised a language. If anything the publishing of the "King James bible" probably has the most stablising affect on english spelling.

You also have to remember that there have been "sound-shifts" for both vowels and consonants. English underwent a major "vowel shift" in medeival period. This affect stuff like long vowels especially. Before then english ee/oo were pronunced like Irish é (ay) and ó (ow). they shifted to current ee sound (equivalent to irish í) and oo (equivalent to irish ú).

Dutch in comparison maintained long vowels sound like in Irish. Once I figured out that "ee" = é and aa=á it suddenly became lot easier to pronunce Dutch placenames for example.

English C can be ambiguous either pronunced as a K (hard-c) or like a s (due to French influence no doubt). Compare Cell and Car.

owenc · 15-06-2011 11:58pm

Baxtar was just reading some of the Scottish ancestry sites and there's mentions on skimmings etc I'n Wigtownshire etc I wonder if that's got to do with Miskimmins hmmm it also says that skimming means cumming In Scotland so it seems the too names are intertwined! It look like this annoying miskimmin thing has been happening In Scotland too and not northern Ireland only and it deems that it originated In Scotland and not ni!

barbarax · 16-06-2011 7:31pm

owenc wrote: »

Baxtar was just reading some of the Scottish ancestry sites and there's mentions on skimmings etc I'n Wigtownshire etc I wonder if that's got to do with Miskimmins hmmm it also says that skimming means cumming In Scotland so it seems the too names are intertwined! It look like this annoying miskimmin thing has been happening In Scotland too and not northern Ireland only and it deems that it originated In Scotland and not ni!

Owen you are just going to have to face it, really you are a Miskimmin!!!!! yes it would seem so. Was on a site the other night found a skimmin in 1666 in England???

owenc · 16-06-2011 8:09pm

Lol it's not me it's my family they have this stupid opinion that the spelling never changed and they ate denying that thus ever happened they also denying that they were church of Ireland... Yes I'm not surprised loll the Scottish version developed off the English one lol.. Cummings is a French name and it was brought to England first and then scotland so if anything we would be English lol... But I also thing that your going to have to face that your a Cummings swell lol because you won't find miskimmins in Scotland...

dubhthach · 16-06-2011 8:22pm

owenc wrote: »

Lol it's not me it's my family they have this stupid opinion that the spelling never changed and they ate denying that thus ever happened they also denying that they were church of Ireland... Yes I'm not surprised loll the Scottish version developed off the English one lol.. Cummings is a French name and it was brought to England first and then scotland so if anything we would be English lol

Well no ye would be Franco-Breton :P

According to the following link alot Cummings in Ireland aren't of english origin but it's a case they adopted the name during angliscation. Of course I think that's specifically in case of Cummings in Munster and Leinster, could be quite different in the North (same can be seen with Smith)

http://berks.pa-roots.com/library/IrishAndScottishSurnames.html

According to brief search of 1901 census about 1/3 of Cummings are Church of Ireland (156), there are 113 who are Presbyterian, 103 are Catholic, 31 are Methodist

owenc · 16-06-2011 8:27pm

dubhthach wrote: »

Well no ye would be Franco-Breton :P

According to the following link alot Cummings in Ireland aren't of english origin but it's a case they adopted the name during angliscation. Of course I think that's specifically in case of Cummings in Munster and Leinster, could be quite different in the North (same can be seen with Smith)

http://berks.pa-roots.com/library/IrishAndScottishSurnames.html

According to brief search of 1901 census about 1/3 of Cummings are Church of Ireland (156), there are 113 who are Presbyterian, 103 are Catholic, 31 are Methodist

Well i don't look one bit french i'll tell you that anyway! Yes that would be true i used smith as an example earlier, however some catholics actually are english due to conversions etc... you see those figures really strike me as odd how the heck can scottish descendants be church of ireland if they came from scotland wouldn't they not be presbyterian?? I keep finding loads of folk in church of ireland records when they have scottish names its getting very odd... and my family are originally church of ireland but i beleive theres something suspisious about that because they are written down as presbyterian in the census...

owenc · 16-06-2011 8:40pm

oh and barbarax this is for you: as you can see it says it came into england first..

This very interesting Scottish surname is probably Norman-Breton in origin. It was introduced initially into England, by the followers of William the Conqueror at or after the battle of Hastings in 1066. The derivation is from either a pre 7th century personal name, originally 'Cumine' or 'Comyn', and thought to derive from the Breton/Celtic element 'can', meaning 'bent, crooked', and a common element in such surnames as 'Campbell' and 'Cameron', or from the French town of Comines. In Scotland, the family founded by William Comyn (see below), grew to be one of the most powerful in the country. In so doing they held at one time the Earldoms of both Angus and Atholl, although they were not only to lose them, but by the 14th century it was recorded that 'this great house of four earls and thirty two knights was so utterly overthrown, that there is no memorial in the country save the orisons (?) of the monks of Deer (A monastery). Be that as it may the surname remained popular, and there are now a very wide range of spelling forms including Cumming, Cummings, (patronymic), Cuming, Cumine, Cummine, Camings, Kaman, Camin, Kaming, Kemmons (!), Keming, Kimmons, Kimmins, Kimmings, and no doubt many others. Recording examples include Simon Comyn of Coldingham, in 1483, Barabara Keminge, christened at St Margarets, Westminster, in January 1st 1579, and Johes Kemmin, the son of George and Annae, christened at St Martins in the Field, Westminster, on May 2nd 1641. The coat of arms has the blazon of a blue field charged with three golden wheatsheaves, banded in red. The first recorded spelling of the family name is shown to be that of Willelmus Comyn (Chancellor of Scotland), which was dated 1133, in the records of Kelso Abbey, Scotland, during the reign of King David 1 of Scotland, 1124 - 1153. Surnames became necessary when governments introduced personal taxation. In England this was known as Poll Tax. Throughout the centuries, surnames in every country have continued to "develop" often leading to astonishing variants of the original spelling.

Read more: http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/cumming#ixzz1PTBJofrY

dubhthach · 16-06-2011 9:22pm

owenc wrote: »

Well i don't look one bit french i'll tell you that anyway! Yes that would be true i used smith as an example earlier, however some catholics actually are english due to conversions etc...

Indeed well not even that some of them were always catholic as they arrived before the reformation. Of course most of big names among the "Old English" are actually Cambro-Norman (Welsh-Norman). With regards to people with "scottish names" been "Church of Ireland" you have to remember that the Penal Laws of the 18th century applied to both Catholics and Presbyterian. I wouldn't be surprised if many switch affiliation for economical reasons so as to keep hold of land, business etc. You also have to remember that up until 1869 the Church of Ireland was the "State Church" of Ireland. Even though its members only formed a minority in both parts of the island (always more Presbytrians then Anglicans up north)

Anyways some protestants are actually Irish :P For example there's a former UUP MP in the North who has surname Maginnis. This surname is obviously Irish but they were known to have converted so as to keep hold of land and title. Likewise "the O'Brien" (Baron Inchiquin) is CoI

What Is the real origin of the surname Miskimmins

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