What Is the real origin of the surname Miskimmins

brianthebard wrote: »

There was probably an intermarriage at some point for the name to pop up, you must have an Irish great great great grandfather somewhere down the line....

Nope my g g g grandfather had the same name as me cummins and he isn't C of I either.. Ive got the tree back to the 1740s and in the 1750s the name changes to cumming from miskimmin and they all are married and baptised in the C of I but yet in the 1766 census they are listed as Presbyterians WTF?? Note my g g g grandfather was baptised in this church and he is presbyterian did they use the C of I building was that common?? I'm so confused with the religion and name!? The people who had the NAme change would be my g g g g g grandparents

pinkypinky wrote: »

These are not questions that can be answered without a time machine. Check out McLysaght's Irish Surnames to see what it says. It's a book, not online.

Hi thank you i am so confused on what to do. They are bound to be ours because (this is why i think so).. 1.they are in a church like right across from the land were my ggg grandfather was brought up in, 2. They have names which are continuously used in my family i.e james and samuel you said that this is a protestant thing in another thread where by the first son is named by his grandfather and second granfather (maternal) etc.. 3. We are the only cummins/cummings in the whole area. 4. My ggg grandfathers son was named james "william" cummins and you say that this is a thing which runs through the family and this would almost work out with the william in this register. .5 Presbyterians from the area used this church because there was no other church which was presbyterian so my family has to be in here.. hmmm here are the records i found:


Tamlaghtard church of ireland.
Baptisms:
3rd February 1750: William son of Samuel Miskimmin & Susanna his wife
tamlagtard

13th August 1755: Jane daughter of Samuel Miskimmin & Susanna his wife

Marriage:
3rd December 1747 Samuel Mikimmin & Susanna Dougan

What do you think. Why would they use a totally different form to our surname. How can i connect to them?? In the presbyterian church down the hill there are several refrences to a jane and a william... including my gg grandfather being called james william cummins which i think is linked with this one in 1750???

Hi thank you for your reply! There are no god parents listed because I think that that family are Presbyterian and Presbyterians don't have godparents! Presbyterians used that church for baptisms and marriages during the 1700s right up until 1814 although they used the local meeting house to conduct services.... Now there is however a possible link with the William as mentioned before in the Magilligan church there is a baptism of James William cummins who is my gg grandfather... Sadly the Magilligan beanch has died off because they were all woman who didnt marry or have children at the present moment we are the only ones left in the county ( we broke off the Magilligan branch in the 1840s).. Are they any other ways connecting us too them?? On the misskimmins I don't think they actually scalar I think that they are Cummings but just listed as that it's happened before..

zagmund wrote: »

Owen,

You've lost me a little bit. You say "they" called your family "Miskimmins" and it's an Irish name and not a protestant name and this annoys you . . . but who is "they" and where are your family listed as "Miskimmins" ?

I know you produce records that show details of Miskimmins, but why do you think they are your family ? Apart from the use of similar first names.

You mention in one of your posts that your family name changed in the 1750s "to cumming from miskimmin" - so, maybe it's just as simple as your family decided to change name. Why do you think this is a problem and not just a fact ? This is like me getting annoyed at my long dead great, great, grandfather that he named my great grandmother "Brian" or something. It doesn't alter the fact, it doesn't alter the link, it doesn't change anything in genealogical terms.

I won't even get into the discussion of why you think a name can't be Irish and Protestant at the same time. I think that's for another day.

z

The ministers who wrote the records wrote whatever they assumed the surname was and that is why i think it is us, in the church over the other side of the hill where i live, some of my ancestors were written as miskimmins and sometimes as cummins it really depended on the minister... I Also think it is us because it is a variant of our name and we are the only "cummins" in the whole county so theres a very slim chance that it isn't us, another reason is as already mentioned the similar names and of course there are several wills in the 1700s of cummins living in that area with those names... And No they didn't change to miskimmins thats what the ministers wrote down they did however change from cumming (which is the scottish variant) to cummins in the 1860s (as you can see in the 1831 census). Overall i still think it is us i'm trying to connect the link though, and i think that we are not miskimmins i think its just the ministers writting our name down the wrong way which occurred frequently then.... Here are a couple of other records i found which may be ancestors..

Index : 1740 Protestant Householders
Surname : Cumming
Forename : Harry
Town : Carnowry
Parish : Tamlaghtard
Barony : Keenaght
County : Londonderry

The above is bound to be my family because they are in the same townland, there is also evidence of the name change.

Index : Pre-1858 Wills and Admons
Sub-Index : Derry Diocesan Administration Bonds
Surname : Cummins
Forename : William
Occupation :
Town or Townland :
Parish :
County :
Notes :
Description :
PRONI Ref :
Date : 1857

I'm wondering if the above is that william born in 1755?? Would he last 102 years lol?

Index : Pre-1858 Wills and Admons
Sub-Index : Derry Diocesan Administration Bonds
Surname : Cummins
Forename : Mary
Occupation :
Town or Townland :
Parish :
County :
Notes :
Description :
PRONI Ref :
Date : 1799

Here are my family from the 1831 census: note the name change.

Killowen Killowen [part of Coleraine] Elizabeth Cumming
Aghanloo Ballycarton George Cummins
Magilligan Ballymaclary Thomas Cummins
Magilligan Carnowry John Cummins
Magilligan Oughtymoyle Patrick Cuming
Magilligan Tircreven David Cumming
Magilligan Tircreven Henry Cumming (theres another link with that harry.. hmm)
Magilligan Tircreven Samuel Cumming jnr
Templemore Ballyarnet Joseph Cummins

Here are the 1766 census records and that harry pops up again, btw they are all listed as presbyterian in the census.

Names from 1766 list:-
Widow Kimin Dunboe Parish Coleraine
James Kimin Macosquin Parish Coleraine
Robert and William Cumming Dungiven Parish Limavady
Harry Cumming Magilligan Parish Limavady

And theres that kimmin thing poping up again!? :mad: Don't know how anyone could make us out as that but whatever!

zagmund wrote: »

Nope, I'm afraid I'm still lost so I'll bow out of this thread.

Is it just that you're annoyed with ministers back in the 1800s for writing your family name incorrectly ? What clarification can help you with your research ?

z

Yes i am sort of but the cumming bit isn't incorrect they did change names in the 1860s.. anyway what clarification what i am trying to do is connect me to those people and try and get back further but i can't.. I am certain that the harry cumming listed in the 1766 and 1740 census is a relative, that can help me work back, i just can't work out how to connect to them people in the church records!

Just on that, would be easier to track a plantation family that have been living in the same area ever since arriving here? i.e would they be easier to trace back(i can find references to them in the exact same area and townland in the 1660 hearth roll as they were in the 1911 census!?)to scotland?, than one that moves about like mine?.. :rolleyes: I.e do you all think i have a good chance of getting them back because of this? Just wondering aswell, what is £600 in todays money (in £'s) 100,000? Oh and the very fact that they lived there since at least 1660 to 1940 well would that mean they owned some estate or alot of land because a family would hardly stay in the same townland that length of time!? By any chance is there a list of undertakers online??

bobthefarmer wrote: »

I have a David Miskimmins, b.1732, Son of a Weaver, emigrated from Carrickfergus, County Antrim, "Ulster Ireland" in 1748. Found refuge in Lancaster, Pennsylvania with his trip sponsored (Inderture) by Abraham Ferree, son of a French Hugeunot, married his Daughter Rachel October 24, 1763, settled in Linton Hundred, Washington County Maryland and died June 1, 1823.

I wonder if he is related to the author mentioned before in this thread, Samuel Miskimmins who wrote the History of Carrickfergus.

Your Irish and Scottish insights would be appreciated. We have found distint immigrations of Miskimmins, Miskimon, and other variations. Our name has what we call "Scotch-Irish" roots, coming from the Ulster experiment in Northern Ireland. This would be distinctively Presbyterian. We also go by: Miskimen, Miskimins, Meskimen, Miskimens, etc. We do not go by Miskimon. Double consinents and last S in the names were often dropped by immigrants. Spelling was not a frontier top ten item.
Bob the Farmer Miskimen

Hi thanks for replaying. So the name is ulster scots then? Thats what i suspected because in the 1911 there are only 2 catholics with the name in the whole of northern ireland out of about 500 or so... Yes my family is presbyterian. But i find it odd because when you look up the origin of the name it says its irish but when you look at the genetic make up all of the folks with the name they are all presbyterian so its hardly irish. I've looked up this name and it only appears to be in northern ireland. It brings me to the conclusion that its a varient of something else which i think is the name cumming/ cummings.. because my name is cummins formally cumming which is the scottish version but when i looked in the church records we were written down as miskimmons! :eek: And where do i think they are from? Well i think we are from the borders as there is a cumming clan located there (roxborough) and when i look at the 1600s records that is where we are found and nowhere else. Odly enough my name is transcribed as kymin in the 1630 muster roll.... have you ever heard of that? Have you traced your folks back to scotland then? I haven't but i know that we came over between 1620 and 1630 because we were planted by Lord McClelland from kirkcudbright, and he and his wife came in 1618 and my family are in the muster roll in 1630 in his wifes lands... and as already said i have looked in the scottish census records and found that we are very common in roxborugh.. we are also possibly from northumberland too because my name occurs in quite a high frequency there too.. thanks for your message.. What do you suspect then?

Here is a wee site about the plantation and were your ancestors possibly came from: http://ancestryireland.com/scotsinulster/Scottish%20Undertakers/Scottish_Undertakers.html if your ancestors or in any of those landlords land then yous are probably from there.

bobthefarmer wrote: »

I do have some folk lore that has passed down my family line, that is that we were of the isle of Skye and related to Clan MacKinnon, but I really doubt that as it doesn't jive with the Ulster Roots. I heard from Barbara Wilson another Miskimmins of Dongalea, County Down that Cummins is altually an Irish variety of our name. She said: Cummins is the irish spelling for miskimmin which is the scottish spelling coming from skimming mcskimming etc."


I have been corresponding on this name for a while. My father also had a lore that three brothers moved from Scotland to Ireland ca 1700, one being the Samuel Miskimmins author mentioned in prior posts. My ancestor was the son of one of these brothers. What we have handed down in written form is that what I stated previously about from Carrickfergus. I wish
there was a way to tie this in a neat bundle, but with the fires at the "Data Central" a long
time ago, I'm afraid that is impractical. We keep trying. Nice to have this forum.
Cousin Bob

Hi yes I know my spelling is Irish but we are definitely planters especially since we are Protestant the furthest back I can go I'm just wondering why the he'll a protestant would adopt the Irish spelling.. And I've got a story for you what's funny is.. We came over as one family and arrived In coleraine at I'm guessing 1620 then we went to a place called magilligan just west of Coleraine and we lived there for about two hundred years and them yes the
families split up and one mines which is the presbyterian one changed to cummins from
cumming and the other changed religion to catholisim and Cummings it's weird the way we
took the Irish one and they took the Scottish one! It's annoying at times when everyone thinks
I'm related to them but I'm like three hundred years removed!? My grandparents would not
like that we found this out because they used to be called Miskimmins loads of times and they
absolutely hated it!

So you think you came from Skye? Hmm I doubt it the name my have originated there... I'm
convinced we are from the Borders region because the name pops up several times and we are
I'n the muster roll for 1630... Have you found the estate your family was in? Well anyway I'm
planning on going to proni in the summer and that'll tell me finally where we are from I can't
wait! I hope Its not bad.. While you were at your research have you ever heard the name "Kymin" before? Well that's the variant that we were given in 1630 so that mist be what we Spelt it as over in Scotland/England do you know what the origins of that one are? because its confusing me because I have found it in England aswell!!

bobthefarmer wrote: »

What does this term mean? Planter .... Sower of Seeds? Farmer? it is not a common term over hear unless you are thinking of a Potted Plant which it placed into a planter.
Bob:P

bobthefarmer wrote: »

Our family has tried to link ourselves into Ulster-Irish History for 50 years and cannot make any connectable link to any families (other than by name) in NI or SL. Any help from members there, if they can go back to the time frame you are talking about (1630-1732) and have a family member named David (and maybe John and William) who disappeared off the face of the earth. We have a large family group in North America. What is "proni"? I disagree with the Skye lore as well, as I know the history. Without a link in Ulster, I can not proceed to Scotland.

OMG are you foreal you haven't heard of proni before? Right well it has the ulster covenant In it with a pile of other census such as the 1740 and 1765 religious census it will help you find our where they lived then... Btw don't be expecting spellings to be the same : http://applications.proni.gov.uk/DCAL_PRONI_ProniNames/SearchPage.aspx

Then we've got another one which is for the north coast area if your ancestors where from there... You can look at the 1630 muster rolls and this will tell you what landlord your family came over with : http://www.billmacafee.com/ and then you can check the estate records in proni to find out where abouts they came from and when they came.

Also of note don't be shocked if your ancestors are not In a Presbyterian church In the 1700s they are probably still Presbyterian its just that they were persecuted then so they had to goto a church of Ireland church and whorship there ,but not as Anglicans but as Presbyterians my family were very religious and they were on the church of Ireland for 110 years!? :eek:

And do I know Samuel or David yes David was my gggg grandfather (1784) and Samuel was my gggggg grandfather born circa 1720 but I doubt we are related and also if you need any help just ask!! If you give more imformation i could probably give even more websites. Like churches and stuff.

barbarax wrote: »

:Dhi Owen

Would you know a Liam Cummings, I was in touch with him some years ago apparently his ggg grandfather was a Miskimmin but married a catholic and changed his name to Cummings they were from the coleraine district.

Who are you! .... And no that's not true at all honestly it's not... There are some Catholics In the family but our name is not Spelt like that... That man you spoke to may be from the cummings from limavady they split off us and they are all catholics, most of my family are Presbyterian...Are you a 100% sure they aren't from limavady? Anyway that is not us because for one my name is not cummings and two we are not miskimmin we were in the 1700s but we are not anymore and i don't think anyone in my family knows that i think its only me! (they wouldn't listen to me anyway because they hate that name! ) Also i've heard that name before.. where did you meet this man.. where are you from? We are both two separate families now here is cummings :http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Ballylagan/Glenmanus/595503/ and here is mine : http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Bannbrook/Ringrash_More/588338/

barbarax wrote: »

Owen my maiden name is Miskimmin, I am from Donaghadee in County Down where the majority of Miskimmin have lived and still live.................I actually like the Miskimmin name get annoyed if people spell it the wrong way but unfortunately this has happened over the centuries by ministers, census writers etc...the majority of Miskimmin are C of I however my father changed to the Presbyterian church which is where my mother attended. The Liam I spoke of was on Genes reunited about 5 years ago he had contacted me when he found out that his ancestor had changed from Miskimmin to Cumming he thought he may have originated in Donaghadee but I don't think so..........I daresay if we went back far enough we would all be related even if your family don't like the Miskimmin name...I am the person Bob from America is talking about.

Aw sorry if i offended you, no its not that they don't like the name its just that everyone around here used to call my grandparents that and they didn't like it at all!:D So we are church of ireland then? Really thats interesting because my family where church of ireland in the 1700s i was really surprised and so was everyone else in my family because we all thought we were all presbyterian way back but it turns out not that didn't go down well either i must say!!:D Do you know anything about that btw??? I thought scottish people would be presbyterian. Well i don't think thats the liam i know because he doesn't care about genealogy. I think this may be the other family in limavady that split off us,especially with that spelling. Its great that i have found you two because my name is rare and i don't know anyone else with it! How far back have you gotten. Where does your family think yous are from? Have you got any family folk lore?

bobthefarmer wrote: »

Very well, Cousins. Owen, she is right! NI is a big place and it would be nice if we could find our way back three hundred years. Hoping for linkage. We all can correspond via private email. When you look at the myriad of data on web, most people only get five generations before their stuff is hanging by threads. When your family has held stuff tightly together, you can be blessed as I am to know about 10 generations in American and a couple generations in the mother lands. I wish I knew my mother tongue. It would be good to visit NI, as my 86 year old father would like to do still (His Bucket List). If we flew into Dublin, do you think I could navigate on the wrong side of the road?

Oh yes i know that i know full well how hard it is to get back it took me three years to get back thus far! On my mothers family i only got back to the 1840s! :eek: I'm really happy that i got my own family back thus far i feel so lucky at this point because it really is a rarity to do this and i'm actually happy that they were church of ireland and not presbyterian because it made it alot easier to get back further and i was kinda wishing they were for that reason! Why bother flying to dublin when you can fly to belfast from newark with continential airlines, great service and everything! Flew with them a year or two ago flight isn't that long for a transatlantic one either about 6 hours (sometimes 5 hours depending on the jet stream,which is really quick for a transatlantic flight) they have wee tvs on them and everything its not expensive either i think its about £1500 for four people. The roads should be easy to adust to only takes my parents an hour to adjust to the american side.

barbarax wrote: »

no offence taken Owen, I have been able to get back to 1750 we have always been told the family originate in Scotland, however have been unable to make that connection everything seems to stop in N Ireland in the 1750's. I have seen some of the family from Londonderry on some of the sites but didn't really dig in to that side. Also there are quite a lot of Miskimmin in Belfast Carrickfergus and it is from these families that Bob's descendants probably come from. The Liam I was speaking about informed me that his ancestor put it in the Coleraine paper that he would sue anyone who called him Miskimmin.............he must not have liked it either:(

Its alright. Yes i got a little bit further back 1720 or so. I have found out who brought us over and that was lord mcclelland from kirkcudbright so we are definately scottish its just where are we from? I'll hopefully find that out soon when i look at the estate records in proni in the summer. You should look at the muster rolls of montgomery and hamitlton estates theres bound to be something.. i am told that the estate records for the mcclellands are very good and it tells the folk were the family are from in scotland! So that should be exciting! Yes that would be us that must be my american ancestors they are all catholic that is what he is going on about (the most of them married catholics) and they sent out a report in the newspaper to find us but i didn't know it said that! Good god i'm still killing myself laughing at that! :pac: I'll not tell you how they ended up there! That would be naughty!

Here are some links if the any of you two are intrested in the estate papers...

http://www.proni.gov.uk/index/exhibitions_talks_and_events/proni_on_the_record_online/earl_of_antrim_papers.htm

http://www.proni.gov.uk/your_family_tree_series_-_12_-_militia__yeomanry_lists_and_muster_rolls.pdf

http://www.billmacafee.com/estates/landlords/estaterecordsextantderry.pdf

Thats all i could find, as you can see the clothworkers estate records seem to be the most detailed..

barbarax wrote: »

Forgot to say the ancestor Liam speaks of is called Joe Miskimmin which would be short for Joseph.

Ok i have no idea who that is! and i've gotten the family back to the 1720s and i know everyone in the family. I suggest that hes just talking tripe and dosn't know what hes talking about! The person who changed to miskimmin in my family was a david miskimmin.. but his son changed to cummins he is my ggg grandfather david is the gggg grandfather! What is the spelling of the liam you speak of? the surname that is... Btw if that is my relative please don't be contacting him because he'll probably say something to me! (my family are really bitter about geneology)

Hi barbarax ive just been in contact with that boys sister and apparently he's a republican and their family are all catholic!! :eek: Anyway he has gotten the family quite far back and I think he traced it back to Scotland I'm not sure but they are sending me more information and apparently they changed names because we were gypsies and they didnt want anything to do with us... I've got another version of the story I think it may be to do with that! We weren't gypsies one of my g uncles did something very bad to do with gypsies ...

pinkypinky wrote: »

OwenC,

I don't know why you think that all people with a version of Cummins are related to you but it's entirely possible that one family within a wider family group converted to Catholicism/any other religion and the rest stayed Presbyterian. People in Ireland have been shown to swap around the different christian denominations. There's even documented evidence showing some French Huguenots, within a couple of generations of fleeing France for persecution, had switched to Catholicism. Most people will have mixed denomination marriages in their ancestry.

P.

I already knew that... i was just saying..

bobthefarmer wrote: »

Yes, how do I get ahold of the clothworkers Union decision of 1741 in Coleraine? This is close to County Antrim and Limavady. This was also about the time of a Famine (not the potato famine of 1850's) which saw a great flux of emigrants to the COLONIES (USA). Barbarax and OwenC, how do you see patterns of movement of peoples in the early 1700s? Were they fixed to their plantation or Freemen and bid their trades to establish higher rate of income?

OwenC, I looked at the Lord of Antrim, thing, and did not see how to access this online. ANy thoughs?

Sorry what Is that document? Anyway you will have to goto proni to access that and if you want to see estate records you will have to do the same sorry... Ya why can't they have
everything online! Well my own family moved about 5miles at the bear maximum I'n the
1700s and it's funny because ever since we landed In Coleraine in 1620 we have not left and we are all virtually In the exact same place as we landed then which us amazing!? We have a
family I'n America too much like you but they aren't ment to be there they were forced there
and we Lost land and everything because of it ... http://www.billmacafee.com/1630musterrolls/1630musterrollsantrim.pdf you could try the muster roll of north antrum it mentions the lord of Antrim .. By the sounds of things your
family was planted by one of the south Antrim familes... Here is a map which shos you all the undertakers http://ancestryireland.com/scotsinulster/Scottish%20Undertakers/Scottish_Undertakers.html it shows you a rough guideline were all the folks came from mind you the people couldve Been highered from further a field.. It'll help you were to look in estate records..