Given name of "Ternan?"

RGM · 05-05-2014 10:47pm #1

A death record in the US gives a father's first name as "Ternan." This information was provided by Ternan's American grandchild, who likely never met him. Ternan is no name I've ever seen before, any ideas on what it could represent? Tiernan or Tierney come to mind, but they're surnames. Wouldn't it be rare to see them as a given name?

This person would potentially be listed in Griffith's Valuation, so I'm trying to figure out what other name they might have. Co. Cavan, if that matters.

L1011 · 05-05-2014 11:05pm

Tiernan as a first name isn't unheard of anyway.

FurBabyMomma · 05-05-2014 11:07pm

I've heard of Tiernan as a first name too.

Dublin Red Devil · 05-05-2014 11:13pm

Probably his 2nd name. Men are often just refered to by their 2nd name. Your know by the family name, especially with irish

RGM · 05-05-2014 11:18pm

Dublin Red Devil wrote: »

Probably his 2nd name. Men are often just refered to by their 2nd name. Your know by the family name, especially with irish

His last name was Lee. Ternan Lee.

RGM · 05-05-2014 11:19pm

MYOB wrote: »

Tiernan as a first name isn't unheard of anyway.

What would be the English equivalent of Tiernan?

In the 1901 census, there were zero men with the first name Tiernan. If it was being used, what name would they have given?

P. Breathnach · 06-05-2014 12:33am

RGM wrote: »

What would be the English equivalent of Tiernan?

In the 1901 census, there were zero men with the first name Tiernan. If it was being used, what name would they have given?

Tiernan is an anglicised name. The modern Irish form is Tiarnán; an older form is Tighearnán.

I am surprised that it does not seem to have been used in 1901. While it is not a commonplace name, I have encountered at least three Tiernans.

RGM · 06-05-2014 12:50am

In looking at all Lees listed in Cavan in Griffiths Valuation, the only first name that seems in any way similar is Terence. Any ideas on how "Ternan" could be connected to Terence?

It's also possible Ternan/Tiernan was just a nickname and his name is Patrick or Michael or something.

KildareFan · 06-05-2014 10:13am

St Tiernan founded an abbey in Crossmolina, Co Mayo in the sixth century - from crossmolina.ie:

"Errew Abbeys was founded by St. Tiernan the patron saint of Crossmolina in the 6th century. The present ruins are those of a building of the 12th century which was probably erected by Tirawley Burke. St. Tiernan is reputed to have been either a grandson or great grandson of Awley. He is buried at Errew - some authorities give his feast day as August 6th while others give it as April 8th. The local church in Crossmolina is called St Tiernan's - there's also a school in Balally, Co Dublin called St Tiernan's.

Diane Selwyn · 11-05-2014 1:15am

I know a guy called Tiarnan (yes with 2 a's) and didn't think it was an unusual name. I've also come across old family records that use various different spellings of what is ostensibly the same name - in some cases I would assume that they were perhaps not fully literate themselves and in others it is the same as your case where someone else is guessing at the spelling. Irish names can be very tricky to spell if you are not familiar with them!

RGM · 11-05-2014 5:21am

Diane Selwyn wrote: »

I know a guy called Tiarnan (yes with 2 a's) and didn't think it was an unusual name. I've also come across old family records that use various different spellings of what is ostensibly the same name - in some cases I would assume that they were perhaps not fully literate themselves and in others it is the same as your case where someone else is guessing at the spelling. Irish names can be very tricky to spell if you are not familiar with them!

Absolutely. But the thing is, as I said, Tiernan does not appear to have been used in the 1901 census as a first name so much as once. I also looked for different spellings, nothing. I think it's a relatively new development to use it that way. So when talking about someone who was born in the early 1800s, I'm wondering if Ternan/Tiernan was a nickname rather than a proper given name, or if it represents a different name entirely.

Diane Selwyn · 11-05-2014 2:20pm

I just did a search on Ancestry.co.uk of Ireland 1841/1851 Census Abstracts & just using the first name Tiernan and got 1 record back from 1851 - T. F. Strange born c1813 in Waterford. I don't have a subscription to the site so I can't open the record but anyway the name must have been in use then I guess (I didn't try any other variations on the spelling btw).

Actually I just did another search and it look like it might return that record for any name starting with 'T'....D'oh!

RGM · 11-05-2014 2:26pm

Yeah, you have to be leery about those searches.

KildareFan · 11-05-2014 3:01pm

RGM wrote: »

Absolutely. But the thing is, as I said, Tiernan does not appear to have been used in the 1901 census as a first name so much as once. I also looked for different spellings, nothing. I think it's a relatively new development to use it that way. So when talking about someone who was born in the early 1800s, I'm wondering if Ternan/Tiernan was a nickname rather than a proper given name, or if it represents a different name entirely.

Tiernan is a proper given name as it's the name of a saint from the sixth century - as I mentioned above, there's a church in Crossmolina and a school in Dublin named after him.

There was a tendency to anglicise Irish names in the 19th early 20th century for official purposes. In fact it still goes on - if you check the Seamus's and Eamonn's and Kathleen's and Grainne's on the official records you tend to find their names are registered as James/Edward/Catherine/Grace/ - it can make things confusing when people are known officially by one name, and unofficially by another.

Grainne is an old Irish name going back centuries [Grainne Mhaol] - yet there wasn't one Grainne in the 1901 Census. Skip to 1911 and there were 17. One example is Grainne Ní Bhaoighil aged 78, from Annagry, Co Donegal, still a gaeltacht. In 1901, her name was recorded as Grace Boyle.

There are some mentions of Tiernans in the 19 century records:
Griffith's valuation has a number of landholders with the firstname Tiernan:
McMorrow, M'Loughlin, Tracy
The tithe applotment books have Tiernan Hynes & Tiernan Rourke
Fr Tiernan Dolan and Tiernan lee signed Viscount Morpeth's roll [Tiernan Dolan, b. abt 1808, died 1880]
Found a couple of baptisms of Tiernans Horan (1879); Rourke (1868)

Lots of Tiernans registered after the 1920s.

RGM · 11-05-2014 3:18pm

KildareFan wrote: »

Tiernan lee signed Viscount Morpeth's roll

What county was that?

KildareFan · 11-05-2014 4:53pm

RGM wrote: »

What county was that?

The county isn't given - the Morpeth Roll is a bit disappointing because there are pages and pages of signatures where the location is not specified.

Father Tiernan Dolan is mentioned in John O'Hart 1892 Irish Pedigrees; Origins and stem of the nation [reprinted by Genealogical Publishing Company 1999]
His father was Tiernan Dolan of Lislaughy and Listnatullagh - I think in Co Cavan. - the book was reprinted and can be found on google books.

I've found just one reference to him in the newspaper archives - in 1860s he was a priest in Crumlin.

CeannRua · 11-05-2014 7:52pm

RGM wrote: »

Absolutely. But the thing is, as I said, Tiernan does not appear to have been used in the 1901 census as a first name so much as once. I also looked for different spellings, nothing. I think it's a relatively new development to use it that way. So when talking about someone who was born in the early 1800s, I'm wondering if Ternan/Tiernan was a nickname rather than a proper given name, or if it represents a different name entirely.

Tierney is listed on the censuses as a first name. Ternan is listed as a first name on FamilySearch. They're probably forms of the same name. The other thing about the censuses is that Irish-language returns are often transcribed badly, if they're transcribed at all. Lack of results doesn't mean no one filled out a return using the spelling Tighearnan, or some variant on it.

RGM · 29-05-2014 9:42am

Well, just to update this, I did find a mention of a Ternan Lee from the parish of Templeport in an 1836 issue of the Freeman's Journal. In addition, I found an American death record for another of his children and his name on that record is given as Terence Lee. The information there was provided by a grandchild. It would appear he went by both names.

KildareFan · 29-05-2014 9:47am

Interesting to note for future reference that Terence might be the anglicised version of Tighernan/Tiernan/Tiarnan etc.

RGM · 29-05-2014 9:53am

It was what I suspected from the beginning, but I've yet to see so much as a message board mention anywhere else online that ties the two names together. Still not entirely sure what to make of it.

In any case, it was a relief to find the mention in the newspaper. I had already confirmed that old family notes correctly identified the parish priest from that time period, but unfortunately there is no mention of the family in comprehensive Templeport baptism transcriptions that have been posted online. The surname is scarce in that parish altogether. Glad to at least find one piece of paper putting his name where it should be.

KildareFan · 29-05-2014 10:26am

Just found the page in Freeman's journal - it's a huge list of contributors to the 'Justice Rent' in 1836 which I think relates to the campaign against tithes - have to check my history. The list is a genealogical goldmine as it lists thousands of people with their County/townland address & how much they contributed.

I know that you can search for names in Irish newspaper archives, but the results can often overlook occurrences of the name. From checking through the newspapers, there are huge lists of people who contributed to various funds over the years, often with addresses. I'd love to have the time to index all these names, but maybe someone else has done this already?

RGM · 29-05-2014 10:50am

Yeah, I wasn't quite sure what I was looking at. It appears the Justice Rent was contributions to an organization founded by Daniel O'Connell in 1836 called the General Association, whose aim was to repeal the Act of Union.

Given name of "Ternan?"

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