conspiracies and Ireland

mr_fegelien · 24-09-2019 7:27am #1

Why is it not as big here? I was over in the States in 2017 in Anaheim and was talking to a sales clerk and he started rambling how the planes were switched on 9/11 and essentially the phone calls by passengers were fake. He seemed normal otherwise when talking to him. Didn't do drugs, went for runs etc...

There is something in American culture that lends to the average person buying into conspiracies than anywhere else. Maybe it's their historical founding and distrust of government. I know a minority a true but things like fake planes on 9/11 are just bollix and it's insane that so many Americans believe it.

Here I think it's very hard to meet someone who believes in most. I don't even think we have a prominent conspiracy figure like David Ike. Maybe it's the level of education compared to the States.

Wanderer78 · 24-09-2019 7:33am

In America, the government is bad, constantly trying to get one over the public, but trump is gonna save them all by feathering his own nest, and his mates, but at least they ll all know the truth in the end, the end

dusty207 · 24-09-2019 7:45am

It's actually worse over here, they're just keeping it from you.

seamus · 24-09-2019 7:47am

American culture includes fear, paranoia and self-interest. This leads to the general implication that everyone else is not to be trusted, to one degree or another, and one can only trust yourself.

Thus, one places more value on word-of-mouth information and pet theories than on empirical evidence, expert evidence or government statements.

Lower education rates in certain areas will also compound it.

It's also reinforced by U.S. politicial and business institutions who operate with widespread corruption, opaque practices and disregard for the needs of ordinary individuals.

This all serves as fuel that makes it far more believeable that X is secretly doing Y to the population. Because it's really just a deviation from the norm, not something wild and crazy.

Studies have also found that it tends to be a feedback loop. Once someone believes a conspiracy theory, that theory is used as justification for believing in crazier ones. That is, "if X is true, then Y must also be true". It becomes a big house of cards; the veracity of the crazy claims is dependent on the veracity of the less crazy ones. But by that stage people are too far gone to accept any facts.

The difference in Ireland (and Europe for the most part) is that the "less crazy" theories tend not to get much traction, thus the really wild ones have nothing to support them.

The size of Ireland also probably helps a lot. You don't feel that disconnected from any one or any institutions. We know that our President stands in line at cash machines and takes his dogs for walks in public. In the US, government bodies and politicians are thousands of miles away and up on this big untouchable pedestal. Which makes them less believeable and less trustable than Jimbob down the road with the good tooth.

Bob Harris · 24-09-2019 7:51am

mr_fegelien wrote: »

Why is it not as big here? I was over in the States in 2017 in Anaheim and was talking to a sales clerk and he started rambling how the planes were switched on 9/11 and essentially the phone calls by passengers were fake. He seemed normal otherwise when talking to him. Didn't do drugs, went for runs etc...

One sales clerk in 2017 who doesn't do drugs and runs. Conclusion: 300m people are conspiracy theory enthusiasts.

irishguitarlad · 24-09-2019 8:02am

mr_fegelien wrote: »

Why is it not as big here? I was over in the States in 2017 in Anaheim and was talking to a sales clerk and he started rambling how the planes were switched on 9/11 and essentially the phone calls by passengers were fake. He seemed normal otherwise when talking to him. Didn't do drugs, went for runs etc...

There is something in American culture that lends to the average person buying into conspiracies than anywhere else. Maybe it's their historical founding and distrust of government. I know a minority a true but things like fake planes on 9/11 are just bollix and it's insane that so many Americans believe it.

Here I think it's very hard to meet someone who believes in most. I don't even think we have a prominent conspiracy figure like David Ike. Maybe it's the level of education compared to the States.

We have Jim Corr and Gemma O Doherty.

banie01 · 24-09-2019 8:08am

irishguitarlad wrote: »

We have Jim Corr and Gemma O Doherty.

Who in fairness are held up by the vast majority of our population as subjects of ridicule when their more esoteric notions are discussed

banie01 · 24-09-2019 8:10am

Bob Harris wrote: »

One sales clerk in 2017 who doesn't do drugs and runs. Conclusion: 300m people are conspiracy theory enthusiasts.

Who also passed the drug test and psych exam mandated before OP would deign to enter conversation with said clerk...
Tho if OP wants a better grasp on what value to place on said clerk's ramblings...
They should 1st watch Clerks!

Bob Harris · 24-09-2019 8:12am

Jim is really into any conspiracy theory going from 911/vaccines cause autism/flouride in the water and that Michelle Obama is a transwoman to name but a few.

kneemos · 24-09-2019 8:15am

seamus wrote: »

American culture includes fear, paranoia and self-interest. This leads to the general implication that everyone else is not to be trusted, to one degree or another, and one can only trust yourself.

Thus, one places more value on word-of-mouth information and pet theories than on empirical evidence, expert evidence or government statements.

Lower education rates in certain areas will also compound it.

It's also reinforced by U.S. politicial and business institutions who operate with widespread corruption, opaque practices and disregard for the needs of ordinary individuals.

This all serves as fuel that makes it far more believeable that X is secretly doing Y to the population. Because it's really just a deviation from the norm, not something wild and crazy.

Studies have also found that it tends to be a feedback loop. Once someone believes a conspiracy theory, that theory is used as justification for believing in crazier ones. That is, "if X is true, then Y must also be true". It becomes a big house of cards; the veracity of the crazy claims is dependent on the veracity of the less crazy ones. But by that stage people are too far gone to accept any facts.

The difference in Ireland (and Europe for the most part) is that the "less crazy" theories tend not to get much traction, thus the really wild ones have nothing to support them.

The size of Ireland also probably helps a lot. You don't feel that disconnected from any one or any institutions. We know that our President stands in line at cash machines and takes his dogs for walks in public. In the US, government bodies and politicians are thousands of miles away and up on this big untouchable pedestal. Which makes them less believeable and less trustable than Jimbob down the road with the good tooth.

Mainstream media doesn't help either I'd imagine. It's partisan and spreads a diet of mistrust.

20Wheel · 24-09-2019 8:20am

Well we dont really have the ways or means for a theory to form around.
We dont have an area 51 (athlone excepted) in which to keep the flying saucers so to speak.
So the conspiracies cant take root.

There cant be an alien corpse stored on the airbase if theres no airbase.

*baldonnel doesnt count.

Losty Dublin · 24-09-2019 8:21am

With the ratio of people to lambs here in Ireland, wouldn't you think that there should be more sheeple?

Bob Harris · 24-09-2019 8:25am

Losty Dublin wrote: »

With the ratio of people to lambs here in Ireland, wouldn't you think that there should be more sheeple?

The ratio of arseholes to people is 1:1.

Edgware · 24-09-2019 9:29am

Bob Harris wrote: »

Jim is really into any conspiracy theory going from 911/vaccines cause autism/flouride in the water and that Michelle Obama is a transwoman to name but a few.

Thats what he gets from hiding in the wardrobe of his sisters bedroom too much

Edgware · 24-09-2019 9:32am

Losty Dublin wrote: »

With the ratio of people to lambs here in Ireland, wouldn't you think that there should be more sheeple?

Sheeple = people who don't think the sun shines out the arse of Paul Murphy, Ruth Airhead and Rich Boy Barrett and Mary Private School McDonald

markjbloggs · 24-09-2019 9:36am

Bob Harris wrote: »

The ratio of arseholes to people is 1:1.

Not true, some of us are single

Capt. Autumn · 24-09-2019 9:40am

The vast majority of Irish people think that only two 40 storey+ buildings fell in New York on 9/11.

This tells you all you need to know about the general level of intellectual curiosity in this country.

dxhound2005 · 24-09-2019 9:51am

Capt. Autumn wrote: »

The vast majority of Irish people think that only two 40 storey+ buildings fell in New York on 9/11.

This tells you all you need to know about the general level of intellectual curiosity in this country.

You just made that up.

kneemos · 24-09-2019 9:51am

Capt. Autumn wrote: »

The vast majority of Irish people think that only two 40 storey+ buildings fell in New York on 9/11.

This tells you all you need to know about the general level of intellectual curiosity in this country.

Polled everyone have ya?

corner of hells · 24-09-2019 9:52am

20Wheel wrote: »

Well we dont really have the ways or means for a theory to form around.
We dont have an area 51 (athlone excepted) in which to keep the flying saucers so to speak.
So the conspiracies cant take root.

There cant be an alien corpse stored on the airbase if theres no airbase.

*baldonnel doesnt count.

And there are no mysteries in Baldonnel, apart from the food.
It's the only place that serves food that no one not even the chef knows what its.

riffmongous · 24-09-2019 9:53am

We do have conspiracy theories, they just tend to be a bit closer to home and grounded, e.g. that so and so was involved in covering up a murder/disappearance/abuse... The Brits were involved in the Dublin and Monaghan Bombings..well loads of stuff related to the North on both sides.

EmmetSpiceland · 24-09-2019 9:58am

corner of hells wrote: »

And there are no mysteries in Baldonnel

The lad “banging the drum” outside of it might disagree with you on that.

Has a sign that says something about ‘years of toxic fuel being dumped on him and his family’.

There’s also rumours of poisonous “chemicals” getting into the ground and water supply from the “aerodrome”.

Bob Harris · 24-09-2019 9:58am

Bit of a conspiracy theory around what happened at Tusker Rock and how an Aer Lingus flight ended up in the sea.

Capt. Autumn · 24-09-2019 10:06am

kneemos wrote: »

Polled everyone have ya?

Not quite, there were a few not in the night I called.

corner of hells · 24-09-2019 10:09am

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

The lad “banging the drum” outside of it might disagree with you on that.

Has a sign that says something about ‘years of toxic fuel being dumped on him and his family’.

There’s also rumours of poisonous “chemicals” getting into the ground and water supply from the “aerodrome”.

From working up there , I can tell you those rumours are all untrue and that they had no effect on my feathers.

I did more damage to myself robbing the orchards in the area as a child.

whisky_galore · 24-09-2019 10:15am

riffmongous wrote: »

We do have conspiracy theories, they just tend to be a bit closer to home and grounded, e.g. that so and so was involved in covering up a murder/disappearance/abuse... The Brits were involved in the Dublin and Monaghan Bombings..well loads of stuff related to the North on both sides.

Exactly.
No alien anal probes, no cyrogenically frozen Dev.

Wayne Jarvis · 24-09-2019 10:32am

corner of hells wrote: »

From working up there , I can tell you those rumours are all untrue and that they had no effect on my feathers.

I did more damage to myself robbing the orchards in the area as a child.

I work in Baldonnell too (the business park though not the airbase) and the water is a bit dirty looking from the taps but really that's true of a lot of places in Dublin.

riffmongous · 24-09-2019 10:42am

I also wouldn't be surprised if in America it's some sort of consequence of their American Dream propaganda and the idea that America and hence its citizens are unique and special.. then this kind of secret knowledge holds a great appeal for those who are unfortunately in no way special or important in life... now they have a chance to be special

randd1 · 24-09-2019 12:23pm

- Michael Noonan is really Panti Bliss.

- Given it regularity and proneness to flooding, Cork is a social experiment to determine how well Irish people react to rising water levels.

- RTE's haemorrhaging of money is actually a secret slush fund that the political class are using as cover to hoarde money for the next recession whereby they'll use said money to buy up all the land for themselves.

- Supermacs is actually owned by McDonalds, and is used purely to earn money off those who don't like regular McDonalds.

- The Government has secretly being adding omega3 and folic acid to all water supplies in the hopes of increasing the birth rate to offset the effect of the ever worrying pension bomb.

- The reason the Government are fighting the Apple tax bill is because they don't want Apple, who are a subsidiary of the CIA, to reveal that the Irish Government did a secret deal with the American deep state that Ireland could be used as a safe zone for covert American operations in return for protection from when the Russians invade Europe, and as part of that deal was the Good Friday Agreement and the eventual re-unification of Ireland with the Americans keeping the British under control.

Our own conspiracies are far more interesting.

dont bother · 24-09-2019 12:39pm

we definitely have LOADS of people who believe a lot of the conspiracy theories.

my belief is that there are too many people in Ireland who want to appear more intelligent or whatever, that they make a point of loudly castigating anybody who has an opinion on these theories.

in Ireland we hate each other, on the most part. there is a veneer of "Niceness" but really, everybody hates each others guts. too many proud people here.

my latest theory is that Greta Thunberg is not a child, but a fully grown adult woman who is acting as a child as to give the whole "climate change" thing more of a chance and for it to disallow adults to question what "the poor innocent child" is saying.

it's an obvious adult. i'd say about 38 years of age with a bit of surgery/botox etc.

Ray Palmer · 24-09-2019 12:40pm

There are a fair few people who believe conspiracies about the PSC. There is a nutter on the Journal who keeps going on about the cards. He claims the Gardai have access to the DEASP database and are using community CCTV to racially match people. Lots of people seem to agree with him. He keeps going on about the cards holding biometric data.
The question whether a photo can be said to be biometric is being questioned. It has been clarified numerous times the cards do not hold and biometric analysis of the photo but he insists they are biometric.
In Ireland people just claim everything is corrupt and requires no complex conspiracy theory. Planning granted or denied inevitably somebody will mention brown envelopes. If you require no detail or explanation no conspiracy required.

corner of hells · 24-09-2019 1:45pm

Ray Palmer wrote: »

There are a fair few people who believe conspiracies about the PSC. There is a nutter on the Journal who keeps going on about the cards. He claims the Gardai have access to the DEASP database and are using community CCTV to racially match people. Lots of people seem to agree with him. He keeps going on about the cards holding biometric data.
The question whether a photo can be said to be biometric is being questioned. It has been clarified numerous times the cards do not hold and biometric analysis of the photo but he insists they are biometric.
In Ireland people just claim everything is corrupt and requires no complex conspiracy theory. Planning granted or denied inevitably somebody will mention brown envelopes. If you require no detail or explanation no conspiracy required.

There's a bloke I know who claims to know the name of every single person living in each home in his area that he works in.He also says there's a whole network of these people all across the country who know who lives in each home.
Apparently they're called postmen.

dxhound2005 · 24-09-2019 1:51pm

corner of hells wrote: »

There's a bloke I know who claims to know the name of every single person living in each home in his area that he works in.He also says there's a whole network of these people all across the country who know who lives in each home.
Apparently they're called postmen.

They need very good memories because they can't read.

conspiracies and Ireland

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