"Appeal for divers" - Is it irresponsible?

locum-motion · 28-01-2012 2:27pm #1

I am a diver with over 450 dives worth of experience in nearly 9 years, and I have Rescue Diver, Search & Recovery Diver, and Divemaster qualifications. To me, a 'Rescue Diver' is one who reacts to a developing situation while there is still a chance of saving life, and a 'Search & Recovery Diver' is one who can search for and/or recover things that have been lost.

Despite being a trained and experienced diver, I do not consider myself trained or experienced or qualified to search for dead bodies in the sea in an Irish winter. The Navy and Garda divers are qualified to do so, and I know several organisations - some of them CFT clubs - that maintain a search and recovery capability that are trained and experienced in searching for bodies. Examples are the Boyne Fishermens' Rescue and Recovery Service, Dundalk Sub Aqua Club etc.

Recently I was accepted as a volunteer by the Coast Guard, and as such was involved in the shoreline search around Glandore/Union Hall in two weeks ago. I mention this to point out that I am willing to provide what assistance I can (I even offered beds in my house in Skibbereen to the Dundalk SAC Search & Recovery guys when they were down last weekend, had they needed it). It's just that I don't consider that I can assist underwater.

Yesterday, Michael Hayes' (skipper of the Tit Bonhomme) wife appealed for divers to come and assist in the search. I heard about it because a diver I know posted about it on Facebook, asking others to join him. I assisted the instructors who taught this diver on his Open Water course, less than two years ago.

There are a finite number of divers in the country (probably all members or former members of the groups named above) who are qualified to do this job, and I salute their unselfishness. However, these guys have already been mobilised by their respective organisations, and those among them who are available are already on the job, as it were. I would be concerned that an appeal such as Mrs NicAodha's may encourage others, not suitably trained or qualified, to drive to Union Hall today to offer their assistance.

My questions are these: Do the other divers on this forum think it was it irresponsible to appeal through the media for volunteers? Would it be irresponsible for divers (who aren't members of the organisations above) to answer that call?

The whole of West Cork is thinking about the families of the men of the Tit Bonhomme. The support has been uplifting to see. And we all hope that those lost are found again to be returned to their families, and give them the solace of a burial. But, please, I appeal to you all, don't answer the call unless you're trained and qualified to do so. While the recovery of dead bodies is important, it is even more important that nobody else should be risked in the recovery efforts.

Catmologen · 28-01-2012 2:55pm

From what i saw they were asking for experienced search and recovery divers. I would have taken that to be way outside the scope of recreational divers. If people with only open water qualification and a handful of dives are allowed participate its very worrying and I hope we don't see another tragedy.

locum-motion · 28-01-2012 3:11pm

I was a little concerned because of the possible lack of experience of the guy that I saw posting about it on FB. That being said, I don't actually know what he's been at for the last year and a half, so perhaps he is trained up for the job.

I should add that I am not speaking in any sort of official capacity. I speak for myself.

gavkm27 · 29-01-2012 5:42am

I'm a commercial diver by trade and if i was in a position to help out i would have and i know alot of divers who would have to and maybe they did.

BigDuffman · 30-01-2012 3:41pm

Locum I agree to an extent with your point. Maybe an appeal through local clubs for experience divers would of been a smarter approach. As I'm sure as well intentioned as they may be a O/W diver with a desire to help would be more of a potential liability than a helping set of fins.

But a club would have a knowledge of their divers and relevant experience and could approach members appropriately. Having a Rescue Diver qualification does not mean much without experience to back it up. Particularly with conditions as they were. If it was too risky at times for Garda Dive team I'd imagine it would be hugely hazzardous to a casual sports diver.

I've often wondered why a register of local volunteer Divers is not kept by Coast Guard units. Divers that meet the criteria (experience, equipment and availabilty) could put themselves forward to be called on where necessary. This would avoid having to broadcast to the masses that divers are required.

The same could be done when the requests go out for volunteer rescue diver cover at triathalons etc to be sure that only people who are not a danger to themselves and others are eligible to partake.

seadeuce · 30-01-2012 6:06pm

First may I say I have been unavoidably unavailable for searching this past month.
Secondly, I have partaken in many a SAR dive over the years, in most conditions, and have personally recovered remains.

There are good points raised by the OP, and others. Some more points to note:

1. Attempts have been made over many years to have a workable procedure between amateur divers and the services.
2. Due mainly to Insurance considerations and H&S concerns (litigation fears) no such protocol exists.
3. Consequently the Coastguard - among others - are slow to make a call. This is usually left to a third party (in this case the Skipper's wife).
4. Consequently the call arrives later than it probably should have, thus allowing the remains to be carried farther than they otherwise may have been, and prolonging the search.
5. Agencies like CFT have SAR training that satisfies insurance requirements for those suitably qualified.
6. However, CFT divers are viewed as amateurs when it comes to this type of diving. The term is determined by the points in 2. above.

One quality that can never be taught by SAR courses is the "Comfort Factor" that is required for such diving with body retrieval as its purpose.
The individual diver makes that call, frequently after the completion of such a course. This, of course, is the correct call to make for that diver.
Safety first.

However, it has been my pleasure to dive with many a highly-qualified diver in the past who has self-educated him/herself, through courses, beyond his/her level of competence/comfort.

There is a cut-off point in diver qualification. Advisedly an experienced one who has knowledge of Rescue/Self-Rescue.

Bottom line for me is - in SAR circumstances - I would much rather dive with someone who has achieved that Comfort Factor with prevalent conditions of current/low-/nil-vis etc., than with a diver whose logbook shows many dives but has not given the diver the necessary experience to deal with the psychological side of this diving.

My first preference for a SAR dive would be solo BTW, for many of the reasons stated above.
In low vis I like to concentrate on one body at a time thank you.
In nil vis one has to shut their eyes and feel their way forward. Not much good with a buddy in tow.

Here's hoping for a successful conclusion to both the Cork and Kerry searches.

Seadeuce

twowheelsonly · 02-02-2012 6:13pm

I too have taken part in literally dozens of these searches and agree almost totally with Seadeuce.
The diving experience/capability is only part of the equation. Just as important is what Seadeuce calls the Comfort Factor. Unfortunately this usually only becomes completely apparent on the finding of the remains when on occasion people find out that they're not as comfortable as they thought.

OP, Fair dues to you for deciding that you don't have this 'Comfort Factor' - experienced as you may be. That's your decision and you're right not to fell pressured into doing something. It is something that can be developed but it's only human nature not to feel comfortable searching for or handling dead bodies, particularly those that may be in, or entering, a state of decomposition. And more-so under water, out of our natural environment.

Regarding your original point, I think that she was probably right to appeal. Most that respond will be either Clubs or Organisations and therefore be self policing and aware of their own capabilities. In this instance the diving itself was in no way dangerous IMO but I still wouldn't have gone out there with somebody without having a fair indication of their capabilities and personality and I know that plenty of others feel the same.

vince · 11-02-2012 8:27pm

Great work by the local divers on finding the fisher men. i feel that the lead divers in this search would have known the capabilities of any diver who volunteered themselves. i have been diving for 20 years now winter and summer in a semi dry suite and only dived in a dry suite for the first time last winter and only used it 6 times. i would have liked to help but no way was that possible in a semi dry suite for short 30 min dives due to cold and lack off experience in a dry suite would have been a handycap . many people asked me around was i diving in the area i was actually away when the call went out but they didnt get it when i explained my lack of experience in a dry suite which would be vital on these dives. i felt a bit guilty tbh. also the lads on the search did very well to cope whit the situation as it is not every day you come across a body in the water . The lads deserve a reward of some sorts for the work they done in such conditions well done to them and all involved.

yankinlk · 12-02-2012 1:46pm

locum-motion wrote: »

My questions are these: Do the other divers on this forum think it was it irresponsible to appeal through the media for volunteers? Would it be irresponsible for divers (who aren't members of the organisations above) to answer that call?

Simple answer yes.

I imagine the appeal and resulting search gave the families great comfort, even though it returned nothing that weekend. It may have also given some relief to the dedicated (small) SAR teams that simply must have been exhausted after weeks of effort/planning. Every time I saw pictures of the waiting families on the slip I thought of these volunteers and how it must have been tremendous pressure on them.

"Appeal for divers" - Is it irresponsible?

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