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Traveller sues hotel for not having enough security for wedding

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  • 26-05-2015 9:09am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭


    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/man-injured-at-traveller-wedding-reception-loses-damages-claim-1.2218528

    A man whose neck was slashed when a fight erupted at a Traveller wedding reception has lost his action for damages against the hotel where the function took place.
    Thomas Connors (22), The Paddocks, Kilcock, Co Kildare, was aged 14 when he attended a cousin’s wedding at the Lumville House Hotel in the Curragh where he was attacked during a “stampede” of people trying to get out of the function room where a “free for all” broke out, the High Court was told.
    He sued hotel proprietor Michael Lambe over the incident on November 27th, 2006, which he said left him with a scar on the back of his neck and led to him having nightmares for two years.
    It was claimed there was a failure to prevent access to the function by unruly people or to have proper security in place. It was also claimed, because his cousin had paid a €1,000 breakage deposit, the hotel should have had security in place.
    The Lambe family, who have run the hotel since 1971, denied the claims. They pleaded, while there had been trouble at one previous Traveller wedding, they had an unwritten policy not to put in security because they believed it was not required as it was a family function.....


    At about 10pm, a big row broke out and everybody tried to squeeze out one door at the same time, he said. He was grabbed from behind by an unknown person while someone else slashed him with either a knife or a bottle, he said. He had to take refuge in the toilets along with others.
    He also said he had been served two or three “Fat Frog” alcoholic cocktail drinks that night despite being only 14. The hotel denied that claim.
    In her evidence, Lisa Lambe said she and staff had to barricade themselves into the lounge until the gardaí arrived.
    In his decision, Mr Justice Kearns said it was suggested the hotel should have “geared up” for trouble because a security consultant, who gave evidence for the Connors side, had described “fracas” as being “part and parcel of Traveller weddings”.
    The Lambes took the most honourable course and made no assumptions about this family who, it was assumed, were the best of people coming to enjoy the wedding, he said.
    It was not his experience bouncers were required at weddings, whatever about them being required for dances going on into the small hours, the judge said.


    Hotels can't win. Don't take a booking and get sued for discrimination. Take the booking, treat them like a normal wedding party and get sued for not covering the place with bouncers.


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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,707 ✭✭✭whatismyname


    Here we go...


  • Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭Rosie Gardens


    Can't see this thread ending well...

    Liberals on one side, Conservative prejudice on the other.

    Could be worth getting some snacks in!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,707 ✭✭✭whatismyname


    I do fair miss those Fat Frogs though.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You have to feel sorry for the kid, a 14 year old should not be exposed to such dangers and end up stabbed at a function.

    But on the other hand, suing the hotel was clearly a stretch, but of course in assault cases it's often pointless to go after the actual perp as they won't have any funds to pay any award.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    Fracas part of their culture?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,042 ✭✭✭zl1whqvjs75cdy


    And they wonder why hotels won't take traveller weddings.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,452 ✭✭✭✭The_Valeyard


    Can't see this thread ending well...

    Liberals on one side, Conservative prejudice on the other.

    Could be worth getting some snacks in!


    yes.....only one side has prejudices...


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,235 ✭✭✭✭Cee-Jay-Cee


    He'd have a better chance if he took an action for damages against his own family (who caused the row and were probably involved)


  • Registered Users Posts: 958 ✭✭✭MathDebater


    You hire a hape of security and they would probably complain and threaten to sue you for discrimination. You don't hire security and they bait the ****e out of one another and sue you.

    You cannot win.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,321 ✭✭✭✭super_furry



    Liberals on one side, Conservative prejudice on the other.

    Here I am stuck in the middle with you, boss!

    In fairness though, unless you're trying to keep out the paparazzi because you're David Beckham, no civilized person should need security guards at their wedding.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭Rosie Gardens


    yes.....only one side has prejudices...

    I was being slightly tongue in cheek... I probably should have said crusty liberals to balance it


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,063 ✭✭✭Greenmachine


    If they were expecting expecting trouble at the wedding, they should have hired their own security. I know the lad was only 14, and I sympathies with his injuries and suffering. The fact that it was a private function should not have necessitated security. If it happened in a bar open to the public, I think the operator would have been liable.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Hah, the cognitive dissonance.

    "Fracas are part and parcel of Traveller weddings".

    "You can't refuse our business just because we're travellers"

    I imagine Pavee Point are keeping well clear of this mess.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,070 ✭✭✭ScouseMouse


    You hire a hape of security and they would probably complain and threaten to sue you for discrimination. You don't hire security and they bait the ****e out of one another and sue you.

    You cannot win.

    Have to agree with you there. Thats why some pubs choose to close when events like this happen as to refuse entry would open them up to allegations of discrimination.

    As the report says,

    "Mr Justice Kearns said it was suggested the hotel should have “geared up” for trouble because a security consultant, who gave evidence for the Connors side, had described “fracas” as being “part and parcel of Traveller weddings”.

    If the judge says it, surely I, or anyone else, cannot be accused of bias.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,070 ✭✭✭ScouseMouse


    seamus wrote: »
    Hah, the cognitive dissonance.

    "Fracas are part and parcel of Traveller weddings".

    "You can't refuse our business just because we're travellers"

    I imagine Pavee Point are keeping well clear of this mess.

    Perhaps Pavee point could stand up and explain how this is not true and how its discrimination.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,222 ✭✭✭keithclancy


    Fire sues Fireman for having inadequate Fire suppression measures.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,564 ✭✭✭✭whiskeyman


    I wonder if there's a market for novelty inflatable slashhooks, pitchforks etc... at these weddings...


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,722 ✭✭✭abff


    When I see cases like this, I always wonder why lawyers agree to take them on. This smacks of ambulance chasing at its worst.

    If it was possible to put a system in place whereby any lawyer who agreed to take on a frivolous, vexatious case which was doomed to fail would become liable for paying the other side's costs, the number of such cases would fall dramatically.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,069 ✭✭✭✭fryup


    whiskeyman wrote: »
    I wonder if there's a market for novelty inflatable slashhooks, pitchforks etc... at these weddings...

    Bouncy Hi-ace ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,152 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    abff wrote: »
    When I see cases like this, I always wonder why lawyers agree to take them on. This smacks of ambulance chasing at its worst.

    If it was possible to put a system in place whereby any lawyer who agreed to take on a frivolous, vexatious case which was doomed to fail would become liable for paying the other side's costs, the number of such cases would fall dramatically.
    Expecting morals from lawyers? That's more naieve than the hotel owner!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,570 ✭✭✭Mint Aero


    It's their beautiful traditional full Irish celtic blood vikings high kings tin beating culture :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,112 ✭✭✭keeponhurling


    abff wrote: »
    When I see cases like this, I always wonder why lawyers agree to take them on. This smacks of ambulance chasing at its worst.

    If it was possible to put a system in place whereby any lawyer who agreed to take on a frivolous, vexatious case which was doomed to fail would become liable for paying the other side's costs, the number of such cases would fall dramatically.

    Eh, money ?

    you can't really tell if it is frivolous until you've actually looked into the details


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,394 ✭✭✭Sheldons Brain


    You rent an hotel for a private function, the provision of bouncers is a question for the private function, I would have thought.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Have to agree with you there. Thats why some pubs choose to close when events like this happen as to refuse entry would open them up to allegations of discrimination.

    As the report says,

    "Mr Justice Kearns said it was suggested the hotel should have “geared up” for trouble because a security consultant, who gave evidence for the Connors side, had described “fracas” as being “part and parcel of Traveller weddings”.

    If the judge says it, surely I, or anyone else, cannot be accused of bias.

    Doesn't this leave the door wide open now for all traveller weddings christening parties funerals and other occasions to be refused by any hotel, pub, club or other hostelry due to the likelihood that there will be a breach of the peace because it is "part and parcel of travellerweddings"?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,344 ✭✭✭ChippingSodbury


    fryup wrote: »
    Bouncy Hi-ace ?

    When was the first mention of a traveller in the bible?

    Hosanna in the Hiace :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    Doesn't this leave the door wide open now for all traveller weddings christening parties funerals and other occasions to be refused by any hotel, pub, club or other hostelry due to the likelihood that there will be a breach of the peace because it is "part and parcel of travellerweddings"?

    I don't know, but it probably opens the door for any establishment hosting traveller weddings to have dozens of armoured and armed security staff stationed around the function room.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    Doesn't this leave the door wide open now for all traveller weddings christening parties funerals and other occasions to be refused by any hotel, pub, club or other hostelry due to the likelihood that there will be a breach of the peace because it is "part and parcel of travellerweddings"?
    No, I don't think so. The comments of a single traveller in a court case wouldn't be that wide-reaching.

    However, it might mean there is provision for hotels to include expensive security services as part of a wedding package, or ask for a five-figure security deposit for traveller weddings.

    I can see how discrimination of this kind could be defensible by claiming that a traveller wedding is "high-risk" and therefore they're justified in asking for a large refundable deposit.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,665 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    Doesn't this leave the door wide open now for all traveller weddings christening parties funerals and other occasions to be refused by any hotel, pub, club or other hostelry due to the likelihood that there will be a breach of the peace because it is "part and parcel of travellerweddings"?

    Every hotel in the country should have their lawyers bookmarking this case for future use when refusing travelers bookings


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,938 ✭✭✭galljga1


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    Doesn't this leave the door wide open now for all traveller weddings christening parties funerals and other occasions to be refused by any hotel, pub, club or other hostelry due to the likelihood that there will be a breach of the peace because it is "part and parcel of travellerweddings"?

    I would say no. If the case had been successfull, it probably would. The hotel industry should have allowed this hotel to settle the case. Then they would have a right enshrined in law to refuse to cater for our lovely travelling brethren.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,530 ✭✭✭dub_skav


    I don't believe this would set any precedent. The quote seems to state that the judge mentions (in his summing up or elsewhere) that a security consultant who was called by the claimant stated “fracas” as being “part and parcel of Traveller weddings”.

    It's an extremely cumbersome way of stating it, which leads to confusion - not surprising from our newspapers these days - but essentially the guys bringing the case claimed this, the judge did not agree with it.


This discussion has been closed.
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