Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Nibiru (Planet X for the plebs)

13»

Comments

  • #102
    Saipanne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭Saipanne


    WakeUp wrote: »
    really...do please elaborate for me...

    Open your mind, mannnnn



  • #103
    WakeUp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭WakeUp


    Saipanne wrote: »
    Open your mind, mannnnn


    I will watch your video if you will watch mine fair enough?..now I could be pedantic and throw this back at you like you did too me ( something about posting a video isnt hip to put forward as an argument ) but I wont. I will watch it if you embed it...according to you I dont understand occams razor. fair enough. are you going to tell me why I dont understand it..according to you?..


  • #104
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    Large scale conspiracies happen all the time, the Catholic Church conspired to hide industrialised child abuse, it looks like there's a similar past conspiracy involving high level MP's in Britain, there have been any number of false flags throughout history. The communists didn't burn down the Reichstag, the Polish didn't invade Germany to start WWII, Saddam Hussein did not have WMD and the intelligence community in the Anglo-US alliance conspired to convince enough people that he did.

    The Lizard stuff might well be a conspiracy to discredit all conspiracies. Who knows.

    As for the video that Wakeup posted it shows a limited kind of rationality to dismiss anything without watching it because you assume a conspiracy. Since you are not going to watch it here is what happened.

    The video started with one of the gas giants, then it panned out into open space. Something appeared to be there. After a while it became clear that this something was in fact Rick Astley singing Never going to give you up.

    You sirs, have been rick rolled.


  • #105
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    Of course everybody might have watched the video and all playing the game. In which case this is really far too meta for me.


  • #106
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    Heres a list of once crazy, now accepted conspiracy theories.

    http://www.oddee.com/item_99023.aspx


  • #107
    WakeUp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭WakeUp


    Saipanne wrote: »
    Open your mind, mannnnn


    I watched your video but I fail to see the point you are trying to make or how it somehow demonstrates I don't understand Occam's razor?? maybe you could elaborate summise the video and tie in the relevant parts of it to the relevant posts within the context of those posts and replies there was only a few comments...


  • #108
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Reminds me of NASA being able to keep thousands and thousands of employees and their entire family's quite about the Moon landing not happening. :pac:


  • #109
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    Eugene Norman wrote: »
    Large scale conspiracies happen all the time, the Catholic Church conspired to hide industrialised child abuse
    There was no large scale conspiracy. I went to one of these schools and it was common knowledge that it happened, who was behind it and that it had been happening for a very long time. When it did come out, it frankly disgusted me how some of these people, who knew, turned round and claimed that they'd known nothing and it had been kept hidden.

    In reality it was a collection of independent cover ups by the Church and silent complicity by the Irish population, but no overarching 'puppet-masters'.
    it looks like there's a similar past conspiracy involving high level MP's in Britain, there have been any number of false flags throughout history. The communists didn't burn down the Reichstag, the Polish didn't invade Germany to start WWII, Saddam Hussein did not have WMD and the intelligence community in the Anglo-US alliance conspired to convince enough people that he did.
    None of these are "large scale conspiracies". Some were organized conspiracies, but small or one-issue affairs. Others were disorganized conspiracies - last time I checked, it was not determined that the Bush administration, or any other 'puppet-master', planned and oversaw such a deception. Most likely it was a lot of middle level civil servants producing analysis concluding what they knew their superiors wanted to see, because that's one way to get ahead. Happens in the private sector all the time.
    The Lizard stuff might well be a conspiracy to discredit all conspiracies. Who knows.
    Which is not a good thing, because while I maintain that the vast majority of conspiracy theories are way off the mark, if not entirely deluded, that does not mean that conspiracies do not exist, and the lizard men serve to discredit them too.

    It's just that the Word is a far more dull place in reality and most covert actions are far less organized than many conspiracy theorists would have you believe, let alone under the direction of some shadowing star chamber of Illuminati, Rothschilds or Lizard-men.


  • #110
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    The Corinthian wrote: »
    There was no large scale conspiracy. I went to one of these schools and it was common knowledge that it happened, who was behind it and that it had been happening for a very long time. When it did come out, it frankly disgusted me how some of these people, who knew, turned round and claimed that they'd known nothing and it had been kept hidden.

    In reality it was a collection of independent cover ups by the Church and silent complicity by the Irish population, but no overarching 'puppet-masters'.

    None of these are "large scale conspiracies". Some were organized conspiracies, but small or one-issue affairs. Others were disorganized conspiracies - last time I checked, it was not determined that the Bush administration, or any other 'puppet-master', planned and oversaw such a deception. Most likely it was a lot of middle level civil servants producing analysis concluding what they knew their superiors wanted to see, because that's one way to get ahead. Happens in the private sector all the time.

    Which is not a good thing, because while I maintain that the vast majority of conspiracy theories are way off the mark, if not entirely deluded, that does not mean that conspiracies do not exist, and the lizard men serve to discredit them too.

    It's just that the Word is a far more dull place in reality and most covert actions are far less organized than many conspiracy theorists would have you believe, let alone under the direction of some shadowing star chamber of Illuminati, Rothschilds or Lizard-men.

    I think we just have very different takes on the meaning of the word "conspiracy", that's all. You want everybody to be on board, and nobody to be self deluded, and for it to go all the way to the top via a puppet master. I have a less stringent view, in the case of the Catholic Church the cover ups didn't have to go all the way to the Pope, but it was known by the Irish Bishops and brushed under the carpets, which is enough to convict them of conspiracy to pervert justice in many jurisdictions.

    In the British case it looks like there were number of interlocking conspiracies between powerful men, the security services and the police. Retired policeman have suggested that they were stopped from investigating. Again, a conspiracy to pervert justice.

    The Iraq war backers were conspiring to hide the info, including from the international bodies that showed no evidence of WMD, and promoting their own half baked theories, and known lies. These "mid level" bureaucrats were often opposed by more rational thinkers in the intelligence services but had the ear of Bush. Furthermore there is evidence that they, and organisations associated with them like PNAC, were gunning for Iraq before 9/11. This is a conspiracy to manipulate facts to go to war.

    In the link I posted it turns out that the CIA did sell drugs to black gangs in LA. That was something I discounted as madness a few years ago, but it seems to be true ( via the support of the Contras).

    Then there is the gulf of Tomkin incident. The main reason for the US to go to war with North Vietnam, it turns out to be a total fabrication, the crazies were right, the sane people who doubted that a government would do such a thing wrong.

    Of course conspiring for Casus Belli is common in conspiracies. Hitler didn't just invade Poland, he pretended he was invaded by Poland.


  • #111
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    Eugene Norman wrote: »
    I think we just have very different takes on the meaning of the word "conspiracy", that's all. You want everybody to be on board, and nobody to be self deluded, and for it to go all the way to the top via a puppet master. I have a less stringent view, in the case of the Catholic Church the cover ups didn't have to go all the way to the Pope, but it was known by the Irish Bishops and brushed under the carpets, which is enough to convict them of conspiracy to pervert justice in many jurisdictions.

    In the British case it looks like there were number of interlocking conspiracies between powerful men, the security services and the police. Retired policeman have suggested that they were stopped from investigating. Again, a conspiracy to pervert justice.
    It's not that we have different meanings to the word conspiracy, but - as I pointed out in my first sentence - none of them were particularly large, organized or World Changing. This is what I challenged.

    The two cases above were the product of multiple, independent, mid-level bureaucrats covering up stuff in their own back yard - the former with the silent consent of a spineless local population that was well aware of what was going on.
    The Iraq war backers were conspiring to hide the info, including from the international bodies that showed no evidence of WMD, and promoting their own half baked theories, and known lies. These "mid level" bureaucrats were often opposed by more rational thinkers in the intelligence services but had the ear of Bush. Furthermore there is evidence that they, and organisations associated with them like PNAC, were gunning for Iraq before 9/11. This is a conspiracy to manipulate facts to go to war.
    You've described a catalog of incompetence, not a conspiracy.

    I'm not saying that conspiracies don't happen, but I am saying that the vast majority of conspiracy theories are not rooted in reality, where 'conspiracies' are largely ad hoc, disorganized and localized affairs.


  • Advertisement
  • #112
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    The Corinthian wrote: »
    It's not that we have different meanings to the word conspiracy, but - as I pointed out in my first sentence - none of them were particularly large, organized or World Changing. This is what I challenged.

    The two cases above were the product of multiple, independent, mid-level bureaucrats covering up stuff in their own back yard - the former with the silent consent of a spineless local population that was well aware of what was going on.

    You've described a catalog of incompetence, not a conspiracy.

    I'm not saying that conspiracies don't happen, but I am saying that the vast majority of conspiracy theories are not rooted in reality, where 'conspiracies' are largely ad hoc, disorganized and localized affairs.

    I absolutely am not describing incompetence. I think a group of ideologues within the bush admin deliberately manipulated the facts to their advantage to go to war. They conspired to go to war.


  • #113
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    Eugene Norman wrote: »
    I absolutely am not describing incompetence. I think a group of ideologues within the bush admin deliberately manipulated the facts to their advantage to go to war. They conspired to go to war.
    The did seek to go to war from day one - that's well documented. But that there was a conspiracy by them to actively instruct the intelligence services to falsify evidence, there's little or no evidence of this.

    It's just as plausible, if not more-so, that the middle-managers in those intelligence services skewed their analysis to validate whatever they thought their bosses wanted to hear.

    I genuinely think you give both those intelligence services and the neo-conservatives in the Bush administration far too much credit.


  • #114
    Mechanical Clocktail
    Closed Accounts Posts: 255 ✭✭Mechanical Clocktail


    I'm sure there are grains of truth to some theories. Secret government plots or collusion in business etc. We know they happen and there are many examples through history. Talking about aliens and things is pretty daft though. A degree of sense has to be applied.

    I suppose it's interesting to note the strategy of disinformation is very real. From wiki, (for an accurate definition):

    "Disinformation is intentionally false or inaccurate information that is spread deliberately.[1] It is an act of deception and false statements to convince someone of untruth. Disinformation should not be confused with misinformation, information that is unintentionally false.
    Unlike traditional propaganda techniques designed to engage emotional support, disinformation is designed to manipulate the audience at the rational level by either discrediting conflicting information or supporting false conclusions. A common disinformation tactic is to mix some truth and observation with false conclusions and lies, or to reveal part of the truth while presenting it as the whole (a limited hangout).
    Another technique of concealing facts, or censorship, is also used if the group can affect such control. When channels of information cannot be completely closed, they can be rendered useless by filling them with disinformation, effectively lowering their signal-to-noise ratio and discrediting the opposition by association with many easily disproved false claims."

    The part I bolded especially applies to the internet. So I don't think it's true that people who believe in conspiracy theories are all nutjobs. I think they're are some but there are a lot of others who don't buy into propaganda or question things. They're certainly painted as nut jobs. So are whistleblowers.

    But, um, on topic. Planet X? lol! Isn't The Shredder trying to open a portal to there? Thank God for the teenage mutant ninja turtles. :pac:


  • #115
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    The Corinthian wrote: »
    The did seek to go to war from day one - that's well documented. But that there was a conspiracy by them to actively instruct the intelligence services to falsify evidence, there's little or no evidence of this.

    It's just as plausible, if not more-so, that the middle-managers in those intelligence services skewed their analysis to validate whatever they thought their bosses wanted to hear.

    I genuinely think you give both those intelligence services and the neo-conservatives in the Bush administration far too much credit.

    No. There were turf wars within the administration with many non neocons in the intelligence agencies and the State Dept. opposing the neocon briefs ( to bush and the UN) but the neo-conservatives won. This wasn't incompetence, it was ideological marshalling of non facts, half truths and lies by a dedicated cadre to go to war. A conspiracy.


  • #116
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    Eugene Norman wrote: »
    No. There were turf wars within the administration with many non neocons in the intelligence agencies and the State Dept. opposing the neocon briefs ( to bush and the UN) but the neo-conservatives won. This wasn't incompetence, it was ideological marshalling of non facts, half truths and lies by a dedicated cadre to go to war. A conspiracy.
    Evidence please?


  • #117
    Poor Uncle Tom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,546 ✭✭✭✭Poor Uncle Tom


    The Corinthian wrote: »
    Evidence please?

    Why let a technicality get in the way of a good tale? Sure, all you have to do is reference any of the factual documentaries from the House of Cards series for any evidence you need.


Advertisement