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Landlord insurance-HAP

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  • 17-09-2019 11:58am
    #1
    Olaz
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭


    Hi,
    My home insurance provider won't cover the property when it's under HAP. Am I allowed to name them?
    Can anyone recommend a provider that will offer cover please? By PM maybe.
    Thanks.


«1

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    #2
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,512 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Olaz wrote: »
    Hi,
    My home insurance provider won't cover the property when it's under HAP. Am I allowed to make them?
    Can anyone recommend a provider that will offer cover please? By PM maybe.
    Thanks.

    Never herd of this.
    My insurance company didn't even ask the nature of rent paid, surely its discrimination?


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    #3
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,060 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Olaz wrote: »
    Hi,
    My home insurance provider won't cover the property when it's under HAP. Am I allowed to make them?
    Can anyone recommend a provider that will offer cover please? By PM maybe.
    Thanks.

    That is astonishing. Why, and who? That would be an interesting case for the wrc, you were refused cover because of renting to HAP tenants.


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    #4
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,299 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Something sounds odd. Where did they ask ? Is it actually landlord insurance


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    #5
    Olaz
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭Olaz


    The girl I spoke to put me on hold to check with her supervisor. I have my car insurance and own home insurance with the same company.
    No reason given, just said that they don't offer insurance for HAP. I've asked for a statement to that effect in writing.


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    #6
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,299 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Olaz wrote: »
    The girl I spoke to put me on hold to check with her supervisor. I have my car insurance and own home insurance with the same company.
    No reason given, just said that they don't offer insurance for HAP. I've asked for a statement to that effect in writing.

    But you are not insuring for HAP. You just want landlords insurance, how did HAP even come into the conversation?


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    #7
    Olaz
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭Olaz


    ted1 wrote: »
    Something sounds odd. Where did they ask ? Is it actually landlord insurance

    They know the property is rented out and it states that on the quote sent out (twice the price of my private home insurance with the same company for that reason). I could have renewed online and the HAP issue wouldn't have come up I suppose, but I had a query so she went through all the particulars again on the phone. She asked if it was privately rented. Then asked if the tenant pays the rent directly to me, or through the council.


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    #8
    Olaz
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭Olaz


    ted1 wrote: »
    But you are not insuring for HAP. You just want landlords insurance, how did HAP even come into the conversation?

    Is landlords insurance different from insurance for a rented property-genuine question.


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    #9
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,512 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Can you name the insurer?

    I used Chrome Insurance (Broker) and the policy is through Zurich.
    I have HAP Tenants.


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    #10
    Grumpypants
    Registered Users Posts: 7,762 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    I got a new quote online last week and one question was on the form, Is the house rented to social welfare? It was just a yes-no answers. I put in both and it changed nothing in the price. So I guess it might just be data collecting.

    490841.PNG


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    #11
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,299 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Olaz wrote: »
    Is landlords insurance different from insurance for a rented property-genuine question.

    TBH Not sure, landlords insurance covers the property and 3rd party liability.

    I’ve nevdr heard of renter property insurance, unless that’s what tenants insurance is.


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    #12
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users Posts: 13,981 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    kceire wrote: »
    My insurance company didn't even ask the nature of rent paid, surely its discrimination?

    Might be worth telling the insurance provider to check with their legal team. A actuary might start using HAP as a datapoint but that doesn't mean its legal to do so.


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    #13
    Olaz
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭Olaz


    kceire wrote: »
    Can you name the insurer?

    I used Chrome Insurance (Broker) and the policy is through Zurich.
    I have HAP Tenants.

    Aviva


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    #14
    Grumpypants
    Registered Users Posts: 7,762 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    I don't think Aviva Ireland do landlord insurance here, just in the UK. It sounds like crossed wires. She could have asked the manager if we do landlord insurance for HAP, and the manager prob said no, as in they don't do landlord insurance.


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    #15
    Sleepy
    Registered Users Posts: 24,155 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    It'd seem as valid a data-point to use for actuary as gender / age or occupation on a car insurance contract. Can't see why it would be illegal tbh.


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    #16
    Eggs For Dinner
    Registered Users Posts: 2,941 ✭✭✭Eggs For Dinner


    Occupancy of a rented property is an underwriting factor for insurers. There will be different rates and criteria for occupancy such as couples, students, multi-tenanted etc. Landlords here will know the difference in experience between having those groups in their property

    As this is not a compulsory insurance required by the State and because the refusal is not based on race, sex, colour etc., I doubt there are grounds to appeal the decision


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    #17
    Olaz
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭Olaz


    Grumpypants wrote: »
    I don't think Aviva Ireland do landlord insurance here, just in the UK. It sounds like crossed wires. She could have asked the manager if we do landlord insurance for HAP, and the manager prob said no, as in they don't do landlord insurance.

    I've clarified with Aviva. They advised they do offer landlords insurance but not to cover HAP tenants


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    #18
    Olaz
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭Olaz


    kceire wrote: »
    Can you name the insurer?

    I used Chrome Insurance (Broker) and the policy is through Zurich.
    I have HAP Tenants.

    I'll give Chrome a call. Thank you


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    #19
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users Posts: 13,981 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    Sleepy wrote: »
    It'd seem as valid a data-point to use for actuary as gender / age or occupation on a car insurance contract. Can't see why it would be illegal tbh.

    Because they wrote into the discrimination laws that you can't differentiate between private and public tenants in relation to lettings.


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    #20
    Sleepy
    Registered Users Posts: 24,155 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    A landlord can't. No reason at all that someone offering insurance to landlords can't discriminate based on the profile of the tenant(s) occupying a property they're trying to get landlord's insurance for.


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    #21
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users Posts: 13,981 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    Sleepy wrote: »
    A landlord can't. No reason at all that someone offering insurance to landlords can't discriminate based on the profile of the tenant(s) occupying a property they're trying to get landlord's insurance for.

    You can't be discriminated against in relation to the provision of accommodation. By using it as a data-point and charging more, its discrimination in relation to the provision of accommodation.


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    #22
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,299 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Sleepy wrote: »
    It'd seem as valid a data-point to use for actuary as gender / age or occupation on a car insurance contract. Can't see why it would be illegal tbh.

    Gender is illegal in insurance for the past number of years.


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    #23
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,299 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Olaz wrote: »
    I'll give Chrome a call. Thank you

    I use axa


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    #24
    Eggs For Dinner
    Registered Users Posts: 2,941 ✭✭✭Eggs For Dinner


    Cuddlesworth wrote: »
    You can't be discriminated against in relation to the provision of accommodation. By using it as a data-point and charging more, its discrimination in relation to the provision of accommodation.

    It may be discrimination in relation to the provision of accommodation but not the provision of insurance for such groups


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    #25
    Grumpypants
    Registered Users Posts: 7,762 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    Olaz wrote: »
    I've clarified with Aviva. They advised they do offer landlords insurance but not to cover HAP tenants

    Surprising they would say that, It is pretty illegal for a landlord to discriminate but if they can't get insurance then they are really backed into a corner.

    Anyway try the AA, I got mine for €220 with the €60 online discount.


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    #26
    Sleepy
    Registered Users Posts: 24,155 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Cuddlesworth wrote: »
    You can't be discriminated against in relation to the provision of accommodation. By using it as a data-point and charging more, its discrimination in relation to the provision of accommodation.
    But they're not providing accommodation. They're providing insurance to landlords.

    They may be in breach of the "spirit" of the law but you can bet the farm they're operating inside the letter of it in this regard.


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    #27
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,360 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Actually insurance companies can't refuse cover at all. They have to give you a quote believe it or not. You just have to push the rep as they are basically restricted by the standard policies in the system. They choose not to create a quote as standard but they can't refuse to quote you.
    They are meant to go to an actuary to give a quote but often just quote a ridiculous number to get rid of the potential customer. Now under GDPR you can ask to see the correspondence for the quote which should mean you can prove they didn't go to the actuary now.


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    #28
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,512 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    I’ve asked them on Twitter. Let’s see if they respond.


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    #29
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,897 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Dav010 wrote: »
    That is astonishing. Why, and who? That would be an interesting case for the wrc, you were refused cover because of renting to HAP tenants.

    Does the WRC cover business to business issues? I know that they threw tenants disputes into it, but b2b is different to b2c in nearly all legislation.


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    #30
    Eggs For Dinner
    Registered Users Posts: 2,941 ✭✭✭Eggs For Dinner


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    Actually insurance companies can't refuse cover at all. They have to give you a quote believe it or not..

    Nonsense, they don't have to offer quotations. The exception is motor insurance (because it is a compulsory cover in the state) providing they have a licence to transact that cover


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    #31
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,512 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Reps on Twitter asking for contact details to discuss this.
    OP do you want me to give them your name and number?

    If so, please PM me.


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