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Moves underway by CAA to repatriate Thomas Cook passengers

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  • 15-09-2019 10:14pm
    #1
    Jack1985
    Registered Users Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭


    The UK's Civil Aviation Authority seems to be securing hire-in's to repatriate Thomas Cook Airlines passengers as the airline has a deadline of 1st October to renew its Air Travel Organiser's Licence (ATOL).

    Speculation Thomas Cook has called in insolvency experts in an attempt to generate cash to continue operating. Sad state of affairs Thomas Cook Airlines history includes previous airlines JMC (Through the merger of Flying Colours and Caledonian Airways) and subsequently MyTravel Airways.

    It's just 2 years since we were here in similar circumstances with Monarch. One has to speculate how TUI are fairing with the latter compounded by the MAX issues.


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    #2
    VivaLasBegas
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭VivaLasBegas


    It is my understanding the airline is profitable but the wider Thomas Cook group has been losing money. I had heard they were considering selling the airline part of the business to raise cash. Sad nonetheless if these rumours are true.


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    #3
    Jack1985
    Registered Users Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭Jack1985


    VivaLasBegas wrote: »
    It is my understanding the airline is profitable but the wider Thomas Cook group has been losing money. I had heard they were considering selling the airline part of the business to raise cash. Sad nonetheless if these rumours are true.

    Question is are Thomas Cook willing to separate the airline in that case, without an ATOL however TCX lose a lot of their business.


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    #4
    rameire
    Registered Users Posts: 4,129 ✭✭✭rameire


    If the ATOL was to expire.
    For people who have purchased holidays but not gone on them yet. Would they be covered to get their money back.
    Or would they not due to ATOL insurance expiring?
    Don't have any experience with TC. But would it be better to cancel now and try get a refund, or hope that you get it back after the failure?that's if it fails.

    🌞 3.8kwp, 🌞 Split 2.28S, 1.52E. 🌞 Clonee, Dub.🌞



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    #5
    HTCOne
    Registered Users Posts: 869 ✭✭✭HTCOne


    VivaLasBegas wrote: »
    It is my understanding the airline is profitable but the wider Thomas Cook group has been losing money. I had heard they were considering selling the airline part of the business to raise cash. Sad nonetheless if these rumours are true.


    I’ve heard that too, but I’ve also heard while the airline is technically profitable, the debt is so big that the interest payments alone drag them the into red, not including fuel, wages etc.


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    #6
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,854 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Filed for Chapter 15 in the US in a protective move so it'll be interesting to see what the CAA decide now


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    #7
    Jack1985
    Registered Users Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭Jack1985


    Hedge fund CQS has walked away from talks with Thomas Cook, not looking good now at this point. I believe a lot of difficulty present to cut the airlines off the travel firm.


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    #8
    Jack1985
    Registered Users Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭Jack1985


    And it’s all over Thomas Cook has folded and all TCX aircraft are being impounded on arrival at their destination airports last flight MT2643 currently en-route from MCO to MAN. Condor flights continuing to operate but without the larger travel arm Thomas Cook group they are continuing with increased concern. They have immediately applied for a German Government bailout this morning to keep operations going.

    Best of luck to all Thomas Cook Group employees.


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    #9
    wassie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,310 ✭✭✭wassie


    Very sad news for travellors and staff alike.

    At least the UK government had time to plan for such a contingency over the last few weeeks. BBC reports that "the government has chartered 45 jets to bring customers home and they will fly 64 routes today. The size of the fleet will make it temporarily the UK's fifth largest airline."


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    #10
    Storm 10
    Registered Users Posts: 5,889 ✭✭✭Storm 10


    Probably see a large number of aircraft into Shannon for parking, this is so sad for such a great company and their staff I can't understand why the UK government did not step in with a bail out surely it would be cheaper than hiring in aircraft


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    #11
    Van.Bosch
    Registered Users Posts: 2,851 ✭✭✭Van.Bosch


    Storm 10 wrote: »
    Probably see a large number of aircraft into Shannon for parking, this is so sad for such a great company and their staff I can't understand why the UK government did not step in with a bail out surely it would be cheaper than hiring in aircraft

    The bail out would only kick the can down the road, the debt is too big.

    Also not allowed under EU rules, maybe after Brexit it might have been different.


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    #12
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,562 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Interestingly Condor are still flying, unlike all the other members of the airline group.


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    #13
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Van.Bosch wrote: »
    The bail out would only kick the can down the road, the debt is too big.

    Also not allowed under EU rules, maybe after Brexit it might have been different.

    You can work around EU rules, the UK Government were right not to step in because long term it would probably have been pointless.

    Jet 2 Holidays have proven a major problem for legacy’s in the package industry.


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    #14
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,015 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Sad news

    ATC in Glasgow told the pilots on arrival late last night that they were going to the remote stand, the pilot said, 'I guess we know why' and the ATC responded 'Sorry guys'

    Airbus A330 G-TCXC, Airbus A321 G-TCDD, G-TCDG & G-TCDH on the ground in Glasgow


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    #15
    Masala
    Registered Users Posts: 3,462 ✭✭✭Masala


    As a matter of interest..... how many UK passengers did TC carry last year.


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    #16
    Nijmegen
    Registered Users Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Nijmegen


    Storm 10 wrote: »
    Probably see a large number of aircraft into Shannon for parking, this is so sad for such a great company and their staff I can't understand why the UK government did not step in with a bail out surely it would be cheaper than hiring in aircraft

    The Monarch collapse cost the UK taxpayer £60m to repatriate 110,000 passengers I read today, vs 150,000 who will need repatriation for Thomas Cook. Meanwhile, the size of a bailout they needed was £1.1bn on top of a £450m cash injection they got recently from a Chinese company. The aircraft leases are cheap.

    Returning to government bailouts no matter how bad things are after Brexit really would help the UK along on its quest to return to the 1970s. What needs to happen here is the non viable business fails, everything gets washed in bankruptcy and the spare capacity in the market gets picked up by other operators, who will busy themselves buying the viable parts of the business - be that hiring some of their staff to service now excess demand or picking up their aircraft and crews. Short term painful disruption but hopefully people are wise enough to have insurance and the government will make sure everyone gets home.


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    #17
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Masala wrote: »
    As a matter of interest..... how many UK passengers did TC carry last year.

    The airline is over 8 million. Many more on packages.


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    #18
    gamblor101
    Registered Users Posts: 158 ✭✭gamblor101


    In these situations, what happens to the crews stuck in remote locations? How do they make their way home?


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    #19
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,015 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Masala wrote: »
    As a matter of interest..... how many UK passengers did TC carry last year.


    tcx.jpg


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    #20
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,562 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Nijmegen wrote: »
    The Monarch collapse cost the UK taxpayer £60m to repatriate 110,000 passengers I read today, vs 150,000 who will need repatriation for Thomas Cook. Meanwhile, the size of a bailout they needed was £1.1bn on top of a £450m cash injection they got recently from a Chinese company. The aircraft leases are cheap.

    Returning to government bailouts no matter how bad things are after Brexit really would help the UK along on its quest to return to the 1970s. What needs to happen here is the non viable business fails, everything gets washed in bankruptcy and the spare capacity in the market gets picked up by other operators, who will busy themselves buying the viable parts of the business - be that hiring some of their staff to service now excess demand or picking up their aircraft and crews. Short term painful disruption but hopefully people are wise enough to have insurance and the government will make sure everyone gets home.

    In this case there are all of the package hotel costs to be covered under ATOL, so a lot more costly than simply the impact of an airline collapsing.


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    #21
    Rawr
    Registered Users Posts: 3,775 ✭✭✭Rawr


    Thomas Cook owned "Ving Group" over here in Scandinavia also taken out of action. Thomas Cook Airlines Scandinavia similarly grounded with 6000 Norwegians stranded at locations according to the local press.

    Looks like they really expanded into much of Europe over the years.


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    #22
    davetherave
    Registered Users Posts: 3,361 ✭✭✭davetherave


    The annual report for TC in 2018 says 20,163,000 passengers departed across the group airline (TC and Monarch)


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    #23
    bikeman1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,261 ✭✭✭bikeman1


    gamblor101 wrote: »
    In these situations, what happens to the crews stuck in remote locations? How do they make their way home?

    I would presume they will be booked on the repatriation flights home with the other passengers that they were meant to be looked after. The CAA would have responsibility for the crews as well. An extremely sad flight to be boarding.

    I have flown with TC 3 times. The crews were excellent on all occasions.


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    #24
    PinOnTheRight
    Registered Users Posts: 262 ✭✭PinOnTheRight


    gamblor101 wrote: »
    In these situations, what happens to the crews stuck in remote locations? How do they make their way home?

    I suspect any crews stuck down route will be at their long haul destinations in New York, Las Vegas, Orlando, Cuba, Mexico...

    BA and Virgin may have some compassion and help get them home.


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    #25
    Noxegon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭Noxegon


    PinOnTheRight wrote: »
    I suspect any crews stuck down route will be at their long haul destinations in New York, Las Vegas, Orlando, Cuba, Mexico...

    It's not just there. Very few of the flights that left the UK yesterday evening made it back before the aircraft were impounded – there'll be crews stuck all over the place.

    I develop Superior Solitaire when I'm not procrastinating on boards.ie.



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    #26
    otnomart
    Registered Users Posts: 4,065 ✭✭✭otnomart


    Very sad news for the staff, and also for competition.

    My very first trip to London in the mid-nineties, I actually had Travellers' Cheques in Sterling issued by Thomas Cook. Seems like prehistory now !


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    #27
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,854 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    otnomart wrote: »
    My very first trip to London in the mid-nineties, I actually had Travellers' Cheques in Sterling issued by Thomas Cook. Seems like prehistory now !

    Ditto. Flew on a British Midland DC9 which is also history now.


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    #28
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,015 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Some photos I took today of the impounded planes at Glasgow

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111326394&postcount=4607


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    #29
    Rawr
    Registered Users Posts: 3,775 ✭✭✭Rawr


    A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
    Some photos I took today of the impounded planes at Glasgow

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111326394&postcount=4607

    I really liked that livery too :(


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    #30
    Jack1985
    Registered Users Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭Jack1985


    Bizarre sporting a now double former defunct livery just shows the changes over UK skies in the last two years alone..

    https://m.planespotters.net/airframe/Airbus/A321/G-TCVA-Thomas-Cook-Airlines/4QyPhAdd


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    #31
    PinOnTheRight
    Registered Users Posts: 262 ✭✭PinOnTheRight


    Noxegon wrote: »
    It's not just there. Very few of the flights that left the UK yesterday evening made it back before the aircraft were impounded – there'll be crews stuck all over the place.

    I believe most if not all of the short haul fleet got back, as did the majority of longhaul as the official announcement only came at 2am by which time all the returns were airborne.


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