unscrupulous sellers

walks86 · 15-05-2011 7:53pm

se conman wrote: »

I have not been told who the retailer is but I am not a fool (IMO) and I would consider this retailer to be one of the MOST approachable persons in airsoft and would urge the OP to have a chat with the BOSS himself.

Guys just an update:

This is exactly what I did and I have to say I wish I had in the 1st place....my previous dealings had been with only 1 member of staff and that was obviously not in anyway indicative of how they operate! I have been offered full compensation (i can assure you that this would have been the case whether I had posted this thread or not!!) and I have to say really a class act.

Also to clarify (pretty sure Ricka covered it already) but they have stopped drilling any mid - high end AEGs around a year now, this point was actually pointed out to me by someone other than Ricka before he himself confirmed it.

Lastly I will say this, I did not post this thread to cause a big hub-bub, I posted in the heat of the moment and have to say will be thinking alot harder in future before posting anything here because while there was a great amount of informed comments and i think it genuinely raised the level of awareness on the issue (and the hassle retailers have to go through), others decided to just use it as a platform to take cheap shots.

Anyway just to tie things up, Issue solved - my hat off to Hobby Airsoft, they have been very upright about the whole thing and have completely restored my faith in them being one of the most reputable retailers in the business!

ricka · 15-05-2011 9:15pm

While this doesn't diminish any of Walks grievances, I must point out that this was a second hand rifle and I say that only to clarify the existance of other internals within the rifle.

walks86 · 15-05-2011 9:20pm

fair point, may well have been (probably more likely)the previous owner as opposed to you guys who jimmied the stuff around.

anyway glad this is all sorted!

TheDoc · 15-05-2011 10:27pm

So who is embarrassed now? :P

walks86 · 15-05-2011 10:41pm

TheDoc wrote: »

So who is embarrassed now? :P

seriously?tbh im not, the slightly changed internals was a minor separate issue to the main one (in fairness im going to take their word on that one because they have been so good and upfront about everything) which was a genuine grievance (retailer completely agreed) and has all been sorted now....why should i be embarrassed?

se conman · 15-05-2011 11:39pm

I don't think Doc was referring to you Walk.

TheDoc · 16-05-2011 2:27pm

The moment is lost.....

OddysAirsoft · 16-05-2011 4:32pm

I have tried my best to not post on here - but this thread just pissed me off too much!

The utter tripe written on here is scandalous and tbh probably libellous too -and where are the mods - as per usual - no where!

A guys comes on here and moans about his gun being drilled! Low and behold there are half a dozen posts on here slagging off a certain retailer with veiled innuendo so that they would't get into trouble, but with just enough so everyone would know who they are talking about! Some were subtle and some were not

Originally Posted by evilrobotshane
Boy, I'm sure glad I never bought a gun in the Blanchardstown area.
Are you Missing In Action

Turns out it wasn't who they all thought it was - a fact that 99% of all busy airsoft retailers drill must have escaped a few.

And even there was suggestions hinted at that drilling is an under-handed illegal method - which it isn't! Is spring changing better - undoubtably - is drilling the evil axis that everyone likes to brag about - no.

I wonder how many of those people who made snide, veiled or not so hidden inaccurate libellous comments are going to post an apology here. Thought as much!

swiftblade · 16-05-2011 4:40pm

I admit that I got the retailer wrong and I have nothing against drilling, it has to be done. Heck my first gun was drilled (like most) and it lasted for a good solid 3 years.
It's when the drilling is rushed and overpowered guns slip through is the problem.

TheDoc · 16-05-2011 4:44pm

OddysAirsoft wrote: »

I wonder how many of those people who made snide, veiled or not so hidden inaccurate libellous comments are going to post an apology here. Thought as much!

Those that have posted have good reasons for it no doubt, yeah it was a bit snide, but there is a large portion of the community that havn't had great experience with "not said" retailer,

We arn't all being thrown free **** for reviews etc, the shop has a bad rep and for good reasons, we know it and he knows it.

In fairness I've heard there has been great strides and yeah it might have been a few years ago.

But what pisses me off is when people blind arsed defend an individual,group or entity, blatantly ignoring by their own ignorance or un-informed view, that there was an obvious valid reason for it in the first place.

And its not libel, its not slander, its actual stone cold fact that things like the above, including ten times worse have happend previously.

Hopefully your defence there gets you a few more pistols to review cause it definitly lost you a fair bit of respect : /

I'd just like to point out I actually don't have any major beef with "said" retailer. Ive actually enver bought anything off him, but working in the industry and being around sites for over 4 years , there is genuinely no msoke without fire ......

gerrowadat · 16-05-2011 7:07pm

OddysAirsoft wrote: »

I have tried my best to not post on here - but this thread just pissed me off too much!

The utter tripe written on here is scandalous and tbh probably libellous too -and where are the mods - as per usual - no where!

Jaysis, you're even starting to sound like him.

Protip: There does not exist a law on the books in Ireland called either libel or slander. So that's the weight your statement carries.

Next you'll be trying to explain how the doppler effect applies to light waves with your best inter cert science.

MerryDespot · 16-05-2011 7:14pm

As Gerrout says ... in relation to libel, a defence to a charge of slander/libel is truth.

My interaction with this unnamed retailer (yet we all know who we're talking about) is that I was left standing like a plonker on the shop floor while one of there guys went 'out back' to pick up an aeg I wanted to buy. I waited for 20/25 minutes and then when nobody bothered their arse coming back with the aeg I was holding cold hard cash to purchase, I walked out the door and never went back.
I think a fair few of us have had run-ins with various retailers - in my case it's just the one, and it had nowt to do with drilling and more to do with p1ss poor customer service.

So - in short, my defence to your suggestion of libel is simply that my issues with them are based on truth. As for other people's issues with them - well, that's for their own experiences to prove. As in my case, I'm sure they can stand over what they say.

I'm a bit surprised at this attitude Oddy - you know I've always been a supporter of what you're doing with the video channel, but as much as you seem to respect this particular retailer can't you equally accept that there are people who have not had the Golden Ticket treatment that you have obviously received.

As for Hobby - Ricka and Co have always been obliging, decent to deal with and completely above board. All I can say is I've never been left waiting for 20 minutes while someone went outside for a smoke (or whatever) under the pretext of picking out that aeg for me.

moggser · 16-05-2011 7:28pm

Arkslippy · 16-05-2011 7:41pm

OddysAirsoft wrote: »

I have tried my best to not post on here - but this thread just pissed me off too much!

The utter tripe written on here is scandalous and tbh probably libellous too -and where are the mods - as per usual - no where!

A guys comes on here and moans about his gun being drilled! Low and behold there are half a dozen posts on here slagging off a certain retailer with veiled innuendo so that they would't get into trouble, but with just enough so everyone would know who they are talking about! Some were subtle and some were not

Turns out it wasn't who they all thought it was - a fact that 99% of all busy airsoft retailers drill must have escaped a few.

And even there was suggestions hinted at that drilling is an under-handed illegal method - which it isn't! Is spring changing better - undoubtably - is drilling the evil axis that everyone likes to brag about - no.

I wonder how many of those people who made snide, veiled or not so hidden inaccurate libellous comments are going to post an apology here. Thought as much!

As you receive items from said retailer and promote on your YouTube channel via product placement, you have some cheek to go and throw accusations of slander.

Send me a pm and ill explain how I was treated by your golden goose and if you think its fair, then ill apologise. Up till then, sun doesn't shine ect ect with your comments. And unsubscribe.

AirsoftEire.com · 16-05-2011 8:57pm

Shiva wrote: »

We dont really sell many guns these days, except for the odd special order, and when we get one of those, its always a spring downgrade. However......

I'm going to play Devils advocate here and just mention a few things most of you not in the business may not know or may have overlooked....or might just be conveniently ignoring.

a) TIME: If you're receiving an order of 400 or 500 guns you aren't going to downgrade them by spring. It takes too long, and its not feasible. This is a fact. Its not an excuse, its a cold hard fact. I dont wish to offend any other retailers out there, but I'm not going to sugar coat this or say one thing in public and another in private. The horrible truth is that if you're downgrading every gun you sell by the spring change method, then you're selling **** all guns. Sorry, but thats how it is.

b) LEGALITY: There seems to be an impression out there that if you're a retailer, you're allowed import plus 1 joule guns, and downgrade them before selling. You're not.
Even when ( or if ) the licensing system is introduced, there is no provision within that for a retailer to import an overpowered RIF and downgrade it - its against the law now, and will be for the foreseeable future. So, I'm not saying its always the case, but I know for a fact a lot of the time, the drilling is done outside of Ireland before importation in order to ensure the shipment gets through customs. If you dropped €30,000 on a shipment of guns, would you risk them being seized at Dublin Port and you losing your investment ? I dont care how much you love airsoft, or how altruistic you are, you arent going to take that risk.

c) COST: A spring might only cost a few euro, but the tech opening up the gearbox has to be paid. VAT has to be paid for the spring. PRSI has to be paid for the tech. State contributory pension has to be paid for the tech. Lighting and heat has to be paid for the workspace the tech is using. Rates have to be paid for the premises the tech is working in. This is Ireland, and if you follow all the rules, its very expensive to do business.

d) THE "GREY" ECONOMY: This is never discussed on Boards, but everyone knows it goes on. Or at least everyone with an ounce of cop-on and common sense does. Of all the retailers in this country ( About 23 or 24 now ? ) a large number of them aren't legit. And by that I mean they aren't paying VAT, rates, employee tax and pension contributions, public liability insurance or a whole host of other obligatory costs. Now, I know the above is going to piss off some people, and I'll be asked if I have any proof of it.
Well, I'm not going to name names, but the proof is there for anyone to see who knows anything about business or generally is able to rub a few brain cells together to produce a train of thought. I know how much a gun and parts cost at wholesale, and there is only a difference of a few dollars at most between the various Asian suppliers and wholesalers - certainly not enough to allow someone sell a gun at a ridiculously low price and make a profit. And its very hard for those who do pay taxes and associated costs to compete with them. In fact its becoming impossible.
Theres also a large number of guys out there who fix guns as a hobby, and charge for it. I'm not saying they shouldnt, or that its wrong (in fact I've often thrown people some guns to repair in return for store credit or cash in hand when we were overwhelmed, and I dont have a problem with it). But these people dont have anywhere near the costs associated with doing repairs or downgrades as a registered business, so its very easy for them to (perhaps unwittingly) adopt a holier than thou attitude.

e) PHYSICS: Now this one will really annoy the purists
Theres only one retailer in this country who has sold more airsoft guns than me over the last last five years...maybe two. I have sold THOUSANDS of airsoft guns. Literally thousands. In the early days, there was nothing sure and certain about importing RIFS - it was a very risky endeavour, so as a matter of LEGAL NECCESSITY, downgrading was most often done outside of Ireland, by drilling the nozzle (in my case anyway).
I see this argument pop up every few months, and the same old horror stories are dredged up. Heres the real scoop folks - Downgrading a gun by drilling the nozzle or cylinder is not ideal by any means, but it does not cause as many problems as people would have you believe, if its done correctly. Now, before anyone runs off to Woodies to buy a length of rope to throw over a nearby lamppost and invite me to try on a new necktie, let me clarify that. Drilling can cause problems. I've seen it cause problems. But of the many, many guns we've sold, a very minor percentage indeed have come back with the problems you hear about in these kinds of threads. And if you have an ounce of common sense or customer service awareness, you fix the problem, apologise and move on.

f) DECEIT: Again, not going to name names, but there are retailers out there who lie about how they downgrade guns. I've long since stopped getting upset about it, but I've seen the physical evidence with my own eyes. Sometimes unfortunately, people who live in glass houses throw stones when they shouldn't, in order to talk themselves up, or a competitor down.

I'm not trying to piss anyone off here, but really, people need to realise a few things. No matter how much you love the game, you need to accept that in order for airsoft to succeed in Ireland as a business model, compromises need to be made. Most guns made are made to be 1.2j to 1.7j - the Irish market is blip on the radar of world airsoft. Very few manufacturers make guns to be less than 1 joule unless their country of origin has a legal requirement for them to do so, therefore it will always, always, always be more expensive for an Irish retailer to source stock, and remain legal, no matter which method of downgrading they choose.

Some of the above points are not entirely relevant to this discussion on their own, but they all play a part in how airsoft is run as a business in this country, and they all need to be taken into account when you look at the whole downgrading issue.

So, to sum up for those of you who couldnt be bothered reading this far - Downgrading by any method other than changing the spring is not ideal, but its the only cost effective way to sell large volumes of airsoft guns in this country and stay legit, and alternative methods are nowhere near as damaging as you might think or hear. You'll always hear about the 5 or 10 people who had a badly drilled gun that developed problems, but you never hear about the other two or three hundred whose gun works just fine with a drilled nozzle or cylinder.

I didn't post this in order to start a fight, or discount any of the valid points made by previous posters because indeed there are valid points on the other side of this argument, I posted it just to perhaps give you pause for thought. There are a lot of factors that need to be considered in this discussion that I think are being overlooked. There may even (shock, horror !) be people posting with an agenda.

Now....I think I'll go find a bunker to hide in !

You brought up pretty much every single point I wanted to make Tony. The drilled cylinders isn't optimum and as a matter of course we do not do it nor ever have, however some of the cheaper guns like the G36Cs are done before they leave the factory, other G36Cs are fine when they land. The cursed springs aren't the same every time and as a result produce anywhere between 310fps and 370fps. Depending on the supplier you know whether to ask for them downgraded before they ship.

For higher end guns that are over the limit (despite being advertised at 320-330fps before shipping) like G&Ps, CAs, KAs etc, its a sin to do anything other than a spring swap. The lads in TNT are importing fantastic M90 springs that we're now using too and they produce bang on 305fps in nearly every downgrade. The time and cost of the springs are borne by us and TNT as far as I know. Some people moan about 305fps, believe me you'll be moaning a lot more when certain sites turn you away from a days skirmishing when they tell you your gun is hot and its not.

Bear in mind that 95% of guns that land in are under 1 joule, either because thats the spec of the gun or because the retailer specified the power before the guns were manufactured. Its only the 5% of guns that are over the limit, that were avertised as being under that need to be downgraded.

We sell bucket loads of accessories and pistols, rifles not being our biggest seller. I can only imagine the headache of importing PALLETs of JUST rifles and discovering that they're all about 10-20fps over the limit because the manufacturer didn't care or take heed to the retailers requests.

I can have an AEG apart and back together with a new spring in 12 minutes. Add into that unpacking/repacking/loading the gun and chronoing it and you're up to 15 minutes. Assuming 7 hours or work per day for an employee, he would only get 140 AEGs downgraded in an entire week. Thats just one man. I don't condone the drilling option, but if you want to walk into a large shop in a busy area of the country and expect to see stock on the wall, its the only way. Special time should be given to mid-high end guns for a proper downgrade, but as mentioned most affordable guns are for general plinking or casual playing, a drilled cylinder if done correctly has no adverse effects on the operation of the gun.

Steve

OddysAirsoft · 16-05-2011 9:24pm

Ok - I have stated on here perviously in other threads - I will defend ANY retailer that I feel is getting a bum deal - regardless of what people insinuate on here - I am not in Derek's pocket nor am I an MIA henchman! What I genuinely have an issue is with guys who jump on here bashing MIA and then freely admit that they have never bought anything in the store - point in case -The Doc! Utterly unacceptable and indefensible!

I have no issue with anyone posting about bad experiences re any store, Kev. Truth is the truth and I in no way judged your statement as libellous .

What really annoys me, is the pointing of fingers to a store incorrectly - simple as! You cannot make an unfounded accusation unless you have proof - if you make a mistake at least have the balls to admit it and maybe apologise

Protip: There does not exist a law on the books in Ireland called either libel or slander. So that's the weight your statement carries

Lol must remember that when I pick up The Times next and read about all the Libel and Slander cases in the high court.

As you receive items from said retailer and promote on your YouTube channel via product placement, you have some cheek to go and throw accusations of slander.

I am throwing NO accusations of slander - I mentioned Libel - there is a difference!
I have no doubt people have had genuine poor customer service from certain individual retailers - but that is not what this is about! What this is about is the OP made a broad statement and people fell over themselves to point out the retailer -and they got it wrong! If you do something wrong you should except you are, apologise and move on! That is my point. And instead we now have everyone falling over themselves to attack me - fine, so be it!

Hopefully your defence there gets you a few more pistols to review cause it definitly lost you a fair bit of respect : /

Whilst I remove your claws out of my face - I will just say - I do not court respect from someone like you -so no sleep loss there.

As per usual Boards turns into a pissing contest of who can be the most articulate in beating down the OpFor......I have said my piece - and will not be drawn into further discussion on the matter.So you guys can carry on with my character assassination unhindered.

Oddy Out

J.D.R · 16-05-2011 9:36pm

Lads, can I just say, to all sides of the fence, you have truly ruined one of the best threads here in a long time, and from the bottom of my troll hating heart, thank you :cool:

AirsoftEire.com · 16-05-2011 10:16pm

It still is a great thread and if anyone else from a player/retailer/site owner standpoint wants to add an opinion fire away.

Arkslippy · 16-05-2011 10:23pm

OddysAirsoft wrote: »

Ok - I have stated on here perviously in other threads - I will defend ANY retailer that I feel is getting a bum deal - regardless of what people insinuate on here - I am not in Derek's pocket nor am I an MIA henchman! What I genuinely have an issue is with guys who jump on here bashing MIA and then freely admit that they have never bought anything in the store - point in case -The Doc! Utterly unacceptable and indefensible!

I have no issue with anyone posting about bad experiences re any store, Kev. Truth is the truth and I in no way judged your statement as libellous .

What really annoys me, is the pointing of fingers to a store incorrectly - simple as! You cannot make an unfounded accusation unless you have proof - if you make a mistake at least have the balls to admit it and maybe apologise

Lol must remember that when I pick up The Times next and read about all the Libel aund Slander cases in the high court.

I am throwing NO accusations of slander - I mentioned Libel - there is a difference!
I have no doubt people have had genuine poor customer service from certain individual retailers - but that is not what this is about! What this is about is the OP made a broad statement and people fell over themselves to point out the retailer -and they got it wrong! If you do something wrong you should except you are, apologise and move on! That is my point. And instead we now have everyone falling over themselves to attack me - fine, so be it!

Whilst I remove your claws out of my face - I will just say - I do not court respect from someone like you -so no sleep loss there.

As per usual Boards turns into a pissing contest of who can be the most articulate in beating down the OpFor......I have said my piece - and will not be drawn into further discussion on the matter.So you guys can carry on with my character assassination unhindered.

Oddy Out

You've missed the entire point of lesson in the thread.

People were hinting at *** because if their experience with the them. Having a bad rep leads to this. Bad rep from experiences.

And you are being a bit dramatic on the whole character assassination thing.

And semantics on libel vs slander is debatable in this format, you don't improve your position by pointing it out.

And pm replied to decoy.

Arkslippy · 16-05-2011 10:25pm

J.D.R wrote: »

Lads, can I just say, to all sides of the fence, you have truly ruined one of the best threads here in a long time, and from the bottom of my troll hating heart, thank you :cool:

Meet ya behind glennons at midnight and we'll sort with pistols at 10 paces !!!!!!!!

Harveey · 16-05-2011 10:40pm

J.D.R wrote: »

Lads, can I just say, to all sides of the fence, you have truly ruined one of the best threads here in a long time, and from the bottom of my troll hating heart, thank you :cool:

+1 on this, great thread, very informative at the start, now just a load of s*** as usual.

Not taking sides here at all but jumping in bashing on a retailer because you don't like them or what you heard, keep it to yourselves in future.

Stercus Accidit · 16-05-2011 11:12pm

Liable and slander were replaced by the newer defamation legislation and covers written and spoken defamation AFAIK.

NakedDex · 16-05-2011 11:16pm

J.D.R wrote: »

...you have truly ruined one of the best threads here in a long time

I disagree. We had a great story about someone having a grievance, followed by full and clear explanations of the where, when and why of the practice by one respected retailer, and the full and public ownership of responsibility being claimed, explanation and gracefully offered apology by another respected retailer, along with agreements by other peers.
Everyone was happy and a great conclusion came of it.

In other words, there was a happy ending. Can't have that. Where's the drama? Luckily, it appeared with the usual fanfare.
They cycle is complete.

gerrowadat · 16-05-2011 11:52pm

OddysAirsoft wrote: »

Ok - I have stated on here perviously in other threads - I will defend ANY retailer that I feel is getting a bum deal - regardless of what people insinuate on here - I am not in Derek's pocket nor am I an MIA henchman! What I genuinely have an issue is with guys who jump on here bashing MIA and then freely admit that they have never bought anything in the store - point in case -The Doc! Utterly unacceptable and indefensible!

Actually, you said in your other thread you'll defend any retailer who'll give you free stuff -- you certainly said you were willing to shill anything given to you, so you'll forgive people for questioning your credibility.

I have no issue with anyone posting about bad experiences re any store, Kev. Truth is the truth and I in no way judged your statement as libellous .

What really annoys me, is the pointing of fingers to a store incorrectly - simple as! You cannot make an unfounded accusation unless you have proof - if you make a mistake at least have the balls to admit it and maybe apologise

The fact is, the store in question has numerous stories and people who got burned, that in turn turning other people away from it. Doc in particular was dealing with these stories on an almost daily basis, so I'm not a bit surprised he never went near the place.

Lol must remember that when I pick up The Times next and read about all the Libel and Slander cases in the high court.

Libel and slander don't exist under irish law. They were replaced several years ago with a blanket 'defamation of character' law, which has the requisite that the statements be untrue.

Since you're such a stickler for hearing things first hand, then here's my story:

I bought a gun from MIA. It was my first AEG. It was hot. It chronoed at 350FPS at HRTa, and I wasn't allowed use it.

I brought it back to MIA, and told Derek it was chronoing at 350FPS. I figured he'd replace it, or downgrade it, or do something, wasn't sure because I was new. Instead, what he did was:

- Called Paul from HRTA and roared abuse down the phone at him, in the middle of the shop floor (while a mortified lady with her son and toddler were right there).
- With his other hand, loaded the gun and shot it through a chrono on the shop floor, so ricochets went everywhere, again with a toddler walking around.
- Got even angrier when the gun chronoed hot in the shop.
- Put the gun back in the box, shoved it back into my hands, and refused to do anything to it.
- Said to put some mags through it to bring the FPS down, and if that doesn't work to come to Gorse Hill (which was a site he was trying to open at the time) where he claimed there'd be no such stringency on the chrono.

At this point I was kind of freaked out (his hands were shaking with rage and his face was red) so I just went and got the gun sorted out at another retailer and never went back.

So there we go, from the horses mouth. Could be things have turned over a new leaf since that happened, but unless somebody's made a miraculus conversion to born-again non-mongoloid, I wouldn't bet on it.

As per usual Boards turns into a pissing contest of who can be the most articulate in beating down the OpFor......I have said my piece - and will not be drawn into further discussion on the matter.So you guys can carry on with my character assassination unhindered.

Oddy Out

Being wrong. Feels bad man.

gerrowadat · 17-05-2011 12:00am

Harveey wrote: »

+1 on this, great thread, very informative at the start, now just a load of s*** as usual.

Not taking sides here at all but jumping in bashing on a retailer because you don't like them or what you heard, keep it to yourselves in future.

Thread was just fine until Oddy was all like

Harveey · 17-05-2011 12:04am

gerrowadat wrote: »

Thread was just fine until Oddy was all like

And you have nothing better to do that your usual **** stirring

Private Snafu · 17-05-2011 12:12am

Funny, I never thought **** stirring meant stating the facts :rolleyes:

As has been said earlier in the thread, whilst I don't agree with it, there is a right and a wrong way to drill an AEG cylinder. In saying that I've had the unfortunate duty of repairing botched downgrades, both privately and for retailers and I'd be lying if I said most hadn't got a particular silver sticker plastered across the gearbox:(

gerrowadat · 17-05-2011 12:21am

Harveey wrote: »

And you have nothing better to do that your usual **** stirring

I do have better things to be doing, but I like to think I provide a service, both in information and entertainment.

Harveey · 17-05-2011 12:22am

lperrozzi wrote: »

Funny, I never thought **** stirring meant stating the facts :rolleyes:

As has been said earlier in the thread, whilst I don't agree with it, there is a right and a wrong way to drill an AEG cylinder. In saying that I've had the unfortunate duty of repairing botched downgrades, both privately and for retailers and I'd be lying if I said most hadn't got a particular silver sticker plastered across the gearbox:(

I agree but it seems that alot of people are just bashing on the retailer and on Oddy , I've dealt with the retailer and I have never had any problems with any AEG I've recieved and I've always been treated well by them. Any time I brought an AEG to them they've always been helpful in dealing with me. Just people on this forum jump on anything and it all turns to ****. As I said it was a great thread, very informative at the start. People who were reading through it and didn't know what drilling the cylinder was now know what to ask for when an AEG is being downgraded. As for the **** stirring I was referring to the trolls who love an oppurtunity to act like children and jump on things because they don't agree with it or it's not up to their standards. As for the people jumping on Oddy yet again, if you have a problem with him regarding his video's he does, yes he reviews alot of AEG's for that retailer, big deal, why you watching them

Surely if you feel he is doing them wrong or whatever go do them yourself and stop acting like 12 year olds.

Stercus Accidit · 17-05-2011 12:23am

gerrowadat wrote: »

I do have better things to be doing, but I like to think I provide a service, both in information and entertainment.

Info-tainment. Put that on your CV.

cobra 08 · 17-05-2011 12:28am

I had an Dboys m4 as my first riffle bought from a respectable retailer here on boards and that was drilled. I have since purchased 4 other hight end AEGs
from the same retailer and I can tell you this there was absolutely no difference in preformance (apart from normal differences not attaining to the cylinder).

I would also ask of those people claiming the retailer should be open about the practice to every customer that walks in the door even if they don't ask,when you are selling on the riffles do you yourselfs post on your thread that it has been drilled?? Because not once have I ever seen it mentioned on adverts here

@Ricka I have not purchased anything from your shop but from your response a willingness to stand up and admit fault to a problem which gas occurred such a long time after a sale and on a second item has only encouraged me to purchase something from you. In fact I'll be in Market for a nice hight-end AEG in the next month or so and I'll be popping over to see what you've got.

And for the rest of you dragging the thread down with the same old crap we keep hearing everytime somebody mentions a retailer, GET OVER IT. :rolleyes:

gerrowadat · 17-05-2011 12:32am

Harveey wrote: »

I agree but it seems that alot of people are just bashing on the retailer and on Oddy , I've dealt with the retailer and I have never had any problems with any AEG I've recieved and I've always been treated well by them. Any time I brought an AEG to them they've always been helpful in dealing with me. Just people on this forum jump on anything and it all turns to ****. As I said it was a great thread, very informative at the start. People who were reading through it and didn't know what drilling the cylinder was now know what to ask for when an AEG is being downgraded. As for the **** stirring I was referring to the trolls who love an oppurtunity to act like children and jump on things because they don't agree with it or it's not up to their standards. As for the people jumping on Oddy yet again, if you have a problem with him regarding his video's he does, yes he reviews alot of AEG's for that retailer, big deal, why you watching them Surely if you feel he is doing them wrong or whatever go do them yourself and stop acting like 12 year olds.

Trolls say things that are lies to get a rise out of people. I am not a troll, I just happen to get a rise out of people who'd rather people didn't talk about their unique approach to customer service, or their shameless shilling.

Harveey · 17-05-2011 12:34am

gerrowadat wrote: »

Trolls say things that are lies to get a rise out of people. I am not a troll, I just happen to get a rise out of people who'd rather people didn't talk about their unique approach to customer service, or their shameless shilling.

So what are you then

gerrowadat · 17-05-2011 12:35am

cobra 08 wrote: »

I had an Dboys m4 as my first riffle bought from a respectable retailer here on boards and that was drilled. I have since purchased 4 other hight end AEGs
from the same retailer and I can tell you this there was absolutely no difference in preformance (apart from normal differences not attaining to the cylinder).

I would also ask of those people claiming the retailer should be open about the practice to every customer that walks in the door even if they don't ask,when you are selling on the riffles do you yourselfs post on your thread that it has been drilled?? Because not once have I ever seen it mentioned on adverts here

@Ricka I have not purchased anything from your shop but from your response a willingness to stand up and admit fault to a problem which gas occurred such a long time after a sale and on a second item has only encouraged me to purchase something from you. In fact I'll be in Market for a nice hight-end AEG in the next month or so and I'll be popping over to see what you've got.

+1 to this. I've never seen the problem with drilling, especially with clones where the margins are so small. You wouldn't hand the sandwich you're buying in a topaz garage over to the cashier and get all uppity until they cut the crusts off for you. Get a ****ing grip like.

Lemming · 17-05-2011 12:39am

I'm still waiting for the "haters be hatin' ... " comments to start flying. Surprised they haven't already so I can only wonder if there is an extra long episode of MTV Cribs on or something?

I feel so unclean after using that phrase now. I need a long shower with a wire wool scrubbing brush and a power-sander.

Firekitten · 17-05-2011 12:46am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAeqVGP-GPM

cobra 08 · 17-05-2011 12:50am

Lemming wrote: »

I'm still waiting for the "haters be hatin' ... " comments to start flying. Surprised they haven't already so I can only wonder if there is an extra long episode of MTV Cribs on or something?

I feel so unclean after using that phrase now. I need a long shower with a wire wool scrubbing brush and a power-sander.

That's just a pointless post in fairness Lemming.

Lemming · 17-05-2011 12:57am

cobra 08 wrote: »

That's just a pointless post in fairness Lemming.

Not as pointless as me pointing out that my post count has now just hit 10,000.

What a waste of my ten thousandth post though :-/

NakedDex · 17-05-2011 12:58am

Pointless? No, it was an amusing jibe at the predictable manner in which drama in a thread takes hold.
Needless? Yes, but then everything after page seven has been needless.

cobra 08 · 17-05-2011 12:59am

Lemming wrote: »

Not as pointless as me pointing out that my post count has now just hit 10,000.

What a waste of my ten thousandth post though :-/

:D:D

TheDoc · 17-05-2011 1:03am

OddysAirsoft wrote: »

What I genuinely have an issue is with guys who jump on here bashing MIA and then freely admit that they have never bought anything in the store - point in case -The Doc! Utterly unacceptable and indefensible!

There was a good valid reason for not buying anything from there. At the time the shop pretty much had the worst reputation going and there was shady dealings, poor customer service among other things.

And as Gerrrowadat mentioned, I was working in the industry about 2 years, so I very much dealt with it on a daily basis along with all the stories.

And I've made clear numerous times from what I've been told MIA has come on leaps and bounds and would be a store I'd be more then happy now considering for a purchase, although understandable if I wasnt welcome.

What really annoys me, is the pointing of fingers to a store incorrectly - simple as! You cannot make an unfounded accusation unless you have proof - if you make a mistake at least have the balls to admit it and maybe apologise

I'm pretty sure your just choosing to put your fingers in your ears and shout lalalalalalala. There is more then enough proof, stories, horror stories, aggravated customers and the likes. I don't need to apologise for anything.

Anyone that knows me, which you don't, would realise me even admitting that I'd consider MIA for a purchase is a pretty big step. Not that my custom, or where I shop is any big deal, but I spent two years pretty much going the extra mile to give an EPIC customer service experience to the literal dozens if not hundreds that trapsed through the doors, apprehensive, after being stung by MIA in one way or another. So that is just simple fact.

Whilst I remove your claws out of my face - I will just say - I do not court respect from someone like you -so no sleep loss there.

That is absolutely fine chief, no problems, I'm not going to loose sleep over it. I'm a big fan of mutual respect, but I've no problem in literally given two fingers to people acting the mickey. I've got plenty of people who despise me on here, and I've got plenty more fans who appreciate what I bring to the table.

As per usual Boards turns into a pissing contest of who can be the most articulate in beating down the OpFor......I have said my piece - and will not be drawn into further discussion on the matter.So you guys can carry on with my character assassination unhindered.

Would you like a tissue ? As per usual, someone without a ****ing clue, ignoring those that have been around the block probably before you learned how to use your camera. You know I don't get a laugh having this arguments, cause its no longer a debate cause you are just pure blanking anything thats been said to you.

But sure as you've said, we shall leave it at that.

This shouldn't have turned into what it has I'll agree, but it should definitely have gone the route of calling you up on that bollox.

NakedDex · 17-05-2011 1:23am

Lemming wrote: »

Not as pointless as me pointing out that my post count has now just hit 10,000.

What a waste of my ten thousandth post though :-/

I wouldn't worry about it. In a short while, this entire thread is going to undergo a serious post deletion session. You'll get a second chance at that 10k marker. I'll bring a cake this time.

Decoy · 17-05-2011 1:26am

gerrowadat wrote:

Trolls say things that are lies to get a rise out of people. I am not a troll, I just happen to get a rise out of people who'd rather people didn't talk about their unique approach to customer service, or their shameless shilling.

Just so I'm clear on the matter, would you also consider the product reviews we have done for Eirsoft, GoTactical, TheCamoShop, HobbyAirsoft & AirsoftEire as shilling or is it only the reviews of MIA-supplied products that are an issue?

Were the pistol & sling I gave away to junior airsofters @ Red Barn last Sunday also tainted as shilling, should I not have bothered trying to encourage juniors to play airsoft in the right spirit?

Firekitten · 17-05-2011 1:27am

Just for the record....

Has anyone really tested the theory that if you spin anti clockwise fast enough, time slows down?

cobra 08 · 17-05-2011 1:29am

NakedDex wrote: »

I wouldn't worry about it. In a short while, this entire thread is going to undergo a serious post deletion session. You'll get a second chance at that 10k marker. I'll bring a cake this time.

In fairness wouldn't do any harm as buried under all the tit for tat crap there is some useful information in the thread for the not so experienced players and even some good input from retailers for the experienced players.

Private Snafu · 17-05-2011 1:29am

Firekitten wrote: »

Just for the record....

Has anyone really tested the theory that if you spin anti clockwise fast enough, time slows down?

Not that I heard of... But I do know it's a great method of bringing a bottle of wine back up in a hurry

NakedDex · 17-05-2011 1:33am

Firekitten wrote: »

Just for the record....

Has anyone really tested the theory that if you spin anti clockwise fast enough, time slows down?

Dread-Lock · 17-05-2011 3:32am

Somehow I knew you'd be an xkcd fan Dex

.

cobra 08 wrote: »

That's just a pointless post in fairness Lemming.

Isn't that post not pointless too? Making this post pointless as well...

Gray · 17-05-2011 3:48am

A very informative thread about how the retail side of the sport really works, thanks to the retailers who have taken the time to explain the problems they face.

Fair play to Richard for publicly putting his hands up & sorting the issue.

As to the cat fight that has developed that is partly down to Boards policy of not allowing people to give all the information. If the OP had been allowed to say where he bought the AEG in the first place fingers would not have been pointed in the wrong direction.

TBH Boards could be leaving themselves open to more problems by allowing assumption to run riot than letting people name names.

Just remember Assumption is the mother of all F*ukups.

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