unscrupulous sellers

jeawan · 14-05-2011 3:59pm

Shiva wrote: »

Ahh yes.....thats a very good point. However....

Lets say you have, oh....200 guns ( or 10, it doesnt really matter ) sitting in your warehouse, that haven't been downgraded, and you downgrade them on demand.

The Gardai pop in to conduct a quick inspection, and take some of your stock for chronoing. Its happened to me, and a few other retailers I could name. Its not a sign that you've done something wrong - its a spot check they are entitled to perform, and its specifically legislated for in the amendment to the CJA.

You just been caught with 200 (or 10) unlicensed firearms in your possesion.
"Bye bye business", and although unlikely, it could also be "bye bye liberty" when you get sent down.

Would you risk that ? I wouldnt.

I can understand that completely . again i think if the shops have the Aeg's then they should be able to have over power ones that havent being upgraded but getting that into law would probably never happen .

sharpy2010 · 14-05-2011 4:12pm

hey guys I read throught this entire thread and to be honest i was amazed at the information that i didnt know and that others did know and gave up freely:D it actually felt like a forum.
so to my question for someone who has absolutely no idea what he is doing when it comes to cracking open aegs is there anyway to tell that his nozzle has been drilled or the spring downgraded seeing as the seller could simply lie about it.
for example i bought an mp5 from my local retailer and it chronoed in at 275-285. I thought it was the spring but on my 2nd skirmish it just packed in firing as throughout the game it was weird selecting between single and full auto he said it was trigger mechanism and fixed it on warranty and i now thinks this is happening again 1 skirmish later so is this maybe gearbox related?if needs be i will start a seperate thread.

thanks
Sharpy

jeawan · 14-05-2011 4:42pm

sharpy2010 wrote: »

hey guys I read throught this entire thread and to be honest i was amazed at the information that i didnt know and that others did know and gave up freely:D it actually felt like a forum.
so to my question for someone who has absolutely no idea what he is doing when it comes to cracking open aegs is there anyway to tell that his nozzle has been drilled or the spring downgraded seeing as the seller could simply lie about it.
for example i bought an mp5 from my local retailer and it chronoed in at 275-285. I thought it was the spring but on my 2nd skirmish it just packed in firing as throughout the game it was weird selecting between single and full auto he said it was trigger mechanism and fixed it on warranty and i now thinks this is happening again 1 skirmish later so is this maybe gearbox related?if needs be i will start a seperate thread.

thanks
Sharpy

If it is drilled allot of retailers that do it put a warranty sticker over the drill if im not mistaken but again other would k now more about this then me

Shiva · 14-05-2011 5:19pm

hightower1 wrote: »

I'd be interested if any retailers have considered that? Set up together in a a mid size store and focus mainly online. Professional site, a few gun techs, big savings for the customer based on savings that can be made by buying large quantities. Would retailers trust that the community could support a venture like that? TBH I know loyalty to a store plays a big part but if a retailer in Irl is shipping @ 40 eur cheaper than the rest I think the vat majority of players would be shopping there.... I mean look at currys on any given sat , people walking out with mental items and they certainly arent opting to shop in a small Irish retailer and pay more. I guy the tough part of that business model would be assessing "how big to go" vs "how much potential custom would be taken in"

That just doesnt exist in this industry, unfortunately. I used to deal with one of the largest wholesalers in China during the busy times, and even they offered only 2% - 5% discount, depending on brand and model, if you purchased at their highest level. And their highest level was bloody high - if I remember correctly I would have had to have been spending six figures per order to reach it.

I also dont think the market in this country is big enough for that kind of venture. In fact, this is going off topic a bit, but the market in this country is crazy. Its way over-populated with retailers. I had to laugh at someone commenting a week or so ago, when talking about a new retailer opening, that it was a "much needed new retailer". Thats utter bollocks

The last thing this industry needs is new retailers. The saturation of retailers is killing the industry, and while the consumer might be making short term gains as the retailers try to cut each others throats on low prices, eventually it'll collapse. You'll have two or three large retailers who deserve to survive by being lean, stock-optimised and cash-healthy, and perhaps a bunch of smaller hobbyists who cant hope to compete with the big guys, and who will close overnight when the licencing system is implemented and they're asked to produce tax certs.

Anyone who opens a new airsoft shop in the current climate is one of three things - 1) A 100% dyed in the wool optimist, 2) someone who's just been laid off, has a few grand to spend and didnt do an ounce of market research, or 3) a blithering idiot.

All three could arguably be the same thing

Zomg Okay · 14-05-2011 5:43pm

Can I just say, that this thread makes for very depressing reading material.

Shiva · 14-05-2011 5:52pm

Zomg Okay wrote: »

Can I just say, that this thread makes for very depressing reading material.

Try reading it from my position

TNTQ · 14-05-2011 6:32pm

Zomg Okay wrote: »

Can I just say, that this thread makes for very depressing reading material.

As is the case in most dysfunctional relationships, we all just need to come together :pac:

TheDoc · 14-05-2011 7:46pm

Great post Tony.

I thoroughly enjoy those sort of posts, and they are the ones that people should save in a notepad file and read twice a week.

gerrowadat · 14-05-2011 8:16pm

Hey OP, did you contact the retailer in question with your concerns before coming on boards? Speaking of naming and shaming like.

gerrowadat · 14-05-2011 8:16pm

horgan_p wrote: »

Just to point out , if the retailer is IAA affiliated you could always open an official complaint with them.
www.irishairsoft.ie or info@irishairsoft.ie will get to them , I'm sure they'd be happy to deal with your complaint / feedback.

The real IAA or the continuity IAA? Hard to tell which you mean.

Stercus Accidit · 14-05-2011 8:42pm

gerrowadat wrote: »

The real IAA or the continuity IAA? Hard to tell which you mean.

I didn't know there were two of them.

?

swiftblade · 14-05-2011 8:47pm

There's also the provisional IAA....oh wait...

Stercus Accidit · 14-05-2011 9:04pm

Gerrowadats posts can be obscure, but this one is just sailing over my head.

richieffff · 14-05-2011 9:07pm

Never mind......

*not that I am a fan of this joke...

Lemming · 14-05-2011 9:09pm

I'm finding the innuendo (as much as I also get the reference ... ) regarding republican terrorists rather distasteful. Dunno about the rest of you but I consider it stepping over a line that really shouldn't be crossed. Rather than report the posts in question, I'll pin my colours to the mast and say it really has no place in the community.

I'm not a mod and I've no authority to tell anyone to do or say anything here, but can we stop it please? It'd be a shame to see an informative thread dragged through the gutter all for the above aforementioned innuendo.

Anyway, now to report my own post :pac:

Stercus Accidit · 14-05-2011 9:09pm

I get that, yeah, but there's usually some additional double meaning to it.

se conman · 14-05-2011 9:10pm

I am sorry for going off topic but is this the airsoft forum or the politics forum ?

Gordy6040 · 14-05-2011 9:11pm

Hey there,
I got a great little aeg from mike in qas - it was a shot barrell g&g m4. its extremely reliable and consistant in terms of the fps etc. I have to say i got great advice / product and service.

I did have another unit that was all over the place in terms of the fps. I never knew if it would pass a chrono or not:mad:. One of the lads at my local site reckons that it could have been drilled. I never did any work on it myself , it was always done by a store. I'd be interested in comparing notes with you. PM me if you dont want to mention it publically. I wouldnt want to name anyone myself in case my aegs problems were caused by other issues.

Cheers
G

Witcher · 14-05-2011 9:16pm

se conman wrote: »

I am sorry for going off topic but is this the airsoft forum or the politics forum ?

We've all asked ourselves that question at some point:pac:

andy_g · 14-05-2011 9:17pm

Back to the topic at hand please

TheDoc · 14-05-2011 9:22pm

Blay wrote: »

We've all asked ourselves that question at some point:pac:

Its more fun when its about politics in fairness....

And lem while your point is well received, I don't think that terrorism is being brought into it, yeah ok the name hits home here, but in fairness its a clever sly dig at the bollox going on.

And after years of hard work and great strides to see the crap that goes on and is still going on, and the good and hard work thats being flushed down the swanny, I for one get a good chuckle everytime its mentioned.

But now we are getting off topic, and this thread is simply not contraversial enough....

Can we have a name and shame please? Cause there must be about 5 retailers swetting their bollox right now, and I'm sure they are onto their lawyers....

And by lawyers, ringing Sherro having a little gossip..

swiftblade · 14-05-2011 9:26pm

TheDoc wrote: »

Its more fun when its about politics in fairness....

And lem while your point is well received, I don't think that terrorism is being brought into it, yeah ok the name hits home here, but in fairness its a clever sly dig at the bollox going on.

And after years of hard work and great strides to see the crap that goes on and is still going on, and the good and hard work thats being flushed down the swanny, I for one get a good chuckle everytime its mentioned.

But now we are getting off topic, and this thread is simply not contraversial enough....

Can we have a name and shame please? Cause there must be about 5 retailers swetting their bollox right now, and I'm sure they are onto their lawyers....

And by lawyers, ringing Sherro having a little gossip..

It's pretty obvious who we are talking about.

Had another incident at the chrono today. The same guy from last week brought back the AEG to said store to have it downgraded (which should have been done in the first place) . Was firing 470 FPS today. No joke.

What the hell is going on?

gerrowadat · 14-05-2011 9:37pm

Lemming wrote: »

I'm finding the innuendo (as much as I also get the reference ... ) regarding republican terrorists rather distasteful. Dunno about the rest of you but I consider it stepping over a line that really shouldn't be crossed. Rather than report the posts in question, I'll pin my colours to the mast and say it really has no place in the community.

I'm not a mod and I've no authority to tell anyone to do or say anything here, but can we stop it please? It'd be a shame to see an informative thread dragged through the gutter all for the above aforementioned innuendo.

Anyway, now to report my own post :pac:

I don't see how this thread is particularly informative. Sure, some of Shiva's posts have great info, but the crux of the thread was someone badmouthing a retailer when it's not clear they'd made a good attempt at recourse.

TheDoc · 14-05-2011 9:38pm

I dont see it being obvious, yeah I'm not in the loop these days cause I just couldnt be ****ed.

Same bollox goes on every year and no one has the bollox to sort it out, so what retailer are was talking bout?

thermo · 14-05-2011 9:39pm

i know its too late for some but i've found when buying a new gun to ask how it was downgraded, eg at one stage i was looking for a jg styer aug a3, researched it online and found the were 400fps approx. on leaving the factory. i went to my regular retailer at the time and bought one, before handing any money over i asked how it was downgraded and i was offered two options drilled for x price or new spring fitted for an extra €15.

in summary research the gun your looking for, and ask questions.

swiftblade · 14-05-2011 9:45pm

While I'm not having a go at a retailer for drilling, it's the fact they are letting hot guns leave their store, which a simple chrono test would fix.

I understand they may be very busy and drilling is the only option.

the monk5845 · 14-05-2011 9:52pm

can someone pm me the name of the seller please?

Gordy6040 · 14-05-2011 10:02pm

Shiva wrote: »

Ahh yes.....thats a very good point. However....

Lets say you have, oh....200 guns ( or 10, it doesnt really matter ) sitting in your warehouse, that haven't been downgraded, and you downgrade them on demand.

I'm sure you've thought of this but.. would your suppliers not ship you stock with no spring at all? that would get around the problem. Would be worth investigating , Of course I know nothing about the channel from manufacturer to market. Or even the buying power of retailers over here, relationship with distributors etc.

Stercus Accidit · 14-05-2011 10:03pm

If I had to choose, I'd take a drilled air nozzle over a drilled cylinder any day. The nozzle at least doesn't have a piston and o-ring seal pressing past it at high speed to get cut to sh1t on metal filings.

Its also less hassle to replace IMO, as they are a cheap common part usually provided for as an upgrade part, for when you get a proper sub-joule spring.

I got my guns back in the days of spring swaps and all that, I suppose there wasn't the volume of stuff coming in back then, but I'd pay a few bob extra to have a spring swap rather than a drilled unit for the slight performance increase you would get.

That could be an idea and option offered at purchase.

evilrobotshane · 14-05-2011 10:54pm

Boy, I'm sure glad I never bought a gun in the Blanchardstown area.

TheDoc · 14-05-2011 10:55pm

evilrobotshane wrote: »

Boy, I'm sure glad I never bought a gun in the Blanchardstown area.

Sketch man I hear Sherro just claimed you

TNTQ · 14-05-2011 11:03pm

evilrobotshane wrote: »

Boy, I'm sure glad I never bought a gun in the Blanchardstown area.

:eek: It's a big area

evilrobotshane · 14-05-2011 11:11pm

TNTQ wrote: »

:eek: It's a big area

So's your FACE!

Yeah, not TNTQ's bit of Blanchardstown so, I'd happily buy a gun in that bit.

TNTQ · 14-05-2011 11:16pm

evilrobotshane wrote: »

So's your FACE!

Yeah, not TNTQ's bit of Blanchardstown so, I'd happily buy a gun in that bit.

Why I oughta...........

MERC01 out...:pac:

Arkslippy · 14-05-2011 11:20pm

evilrobotshane wrote: »

Boy, I'm sure glad I never bought a gun in the Blanchardstown area.

Are you Missing In Action

TNTQ · 14-05-2011 11:26pm

Arkslippy wrote: »

Are you Missing In Action

Dread-Lock · 14-05-2011 11:30pm

Arkslippy wrote: »

Are you Missing In Action

That sentence made so little sense (in this context) I think it would have been more subtle if you actually just posted the name of the shop :rolleyes:.

And while I'm posting, how is this thread 6 pages long?

swiftblade · 14-05-2011 11:34pm

Dread-Lock wrote: »

That sentence made so little sense (in this context) I think it would have been more subtle if you actually just posted the name of the shop :rolleyes:.

And while I'm posting, how is this thread 6 pages long?

because it's a friday night and the only thing on TV is the Eurovision :mad:

TNTQ · 14-05-2011 11:41pm

Dread-Lock wrote: »

how is this thread 6 pages long?

Because some of us sadder individuals are still in the shop drinking beer and waiting for SCHAAAAANDAL...........

Leftyflip · 14-05-2011 11:47pm

TNTQ wrote: »

Because some of us sadder individuals are still in the shop drinking beer and waiting for SCHAAAAANDAL...........

Cúnt...:p

walks86 · 14-05-2011 11:55pm

ok wow, wasnt expecting this sort of feedback but tbh i think it is great that it is being discussed!

From my perspective I have Pmd several people that got onto me about who the retailer was and it wasn't who everyone seems to be insinuating.

@Garrow: Tbh no I havent gotten onto the retailer in question for several reasons. Firstly If this is their Modus Operandi then they are not going to turn around and "sorry, our bad, here let us fit a new spring and cylinder for you". Secondly I was lied to point blank when I brought it in with issues associated to having a cylinder drilled. And thirdly because I wasnt sure what my rights were yet, hence posting on here to find out.

I have to say that although i can understand the economics (especially after alot of the informed answers on this thread) I still think that there has to be more transparency from retailers that use this method of downgrading. Its all well and good saying "make sure you ask how it is downgraded" but 90% of buyers wouldnt understand this let alone know to ask. I certainly didnt at the time I bought and I had been playing for a year and a half!!

and have to say i think it may actually be better to not name and shame (yet) as all the retailers doing this can have a sweat wondering if it was them!;)

Decoy · 15-05-2011 12:17am

walks86 wrote:

and have to say i think it may actually be better to not name and shame (yet) as all the retailers doing this can have a sweat wondering if it was them!

I won't name the retailer either but it speaks volumes that just about everyone who seems to have an opinion on it are perfectly happy to presume it must be the obvious target, confirmed by the not-so-veiled references to 'warranty stickers' and 'Blanchardstown area'.

Here's a shocker for you all, it's not who you think it is, and it would be obvious if, rather than jumping to the same old conclusions, some attention was paid to what brand/model of gun was mentioned by the OP. :eek:

The retailer in question is definitely among those that I would consider to be reputable and I am confident that if the OP asks the retailer to address the issue it will be handled in a professional manner. Having said that, the AEG(s) in question is a year old, who's to say how the current issue occurred, I doubt anyone could demonstrate that it was drilling that caused the current fault.

se conman · 15-05-2011 12:26am

I have not been told who the retailer is but I am not a fool (IMO) and I would consider this retailer to be one of the MOST approachable persons in airsoft and would urge the OP to have a chat with the BOSS himself.

Arkslippy · 15-05-2011 12:32am

Decoy wrote: »

I wonm't name the retailer either but it speaks volumes that just about everyone who seems to have an opinion on it are perfectly happy to presume it must be the obvious target, confirmed by the not-so-veiled references to 'warranty stickers' and 'Blanchardstown area'.

Here's a shocker for you all, it's not who you think it is, and it would be obvious if, rather than jumping to the same old conclusions, some attention was paid to what brand/model of gun was mentioned by the OP. :eek:

The retailer in question is definitely among those that I would consider to be reputable and I am confident that if the OP asks the retailer to address the issue it will be handled in a professional manner. Having said that, the AEG(s) in question is a year old, who's to say how the current issue occurred, I doubt anyone could demonstrate that it was drilling that caused the current fault.

It's a failing on here that as boards.ie are afraid of being sued or named in a highly unlikely case, that its a pointless if colourful discussion.

Its also telling that everyone is assuming its one retailer by inference of experience, which reflects badly on them either way.

And eurovision has a lot to answer for.

TNTQ · 15-05-2011 12:42am

se conman wrote: »

I have not been told who the retailer is but I am not a fool (IMO)

Debatable......:pac:

se conman wrote: »

I have not been told who the retailer is but I am not a fool (IMO) and I would consider this retailer to be one of the MOST approachable persons in airsoft and would urge the OP to have a chat with the BOSS himself.

A lot can happen in 1 year and I would whole-heartedly agree

Shiva · 15-05-2011 2:39am

Gordy6040 wrote: »

I'm sure you've thought of this but.. would your suppliers not ship you stock with no spring at all? that would get around the problem. Would be worth investigating

Yeah, I enquired about that once, but it's the same issue - they have to interrupt their assembly line or whatever they use, and make changes to the stock model. At that rate, they might as well just change the spring.

Plus you'd still have to open it up and install the spring when it landed, bringing the same costs to the process.

gerrowadat · 15-05-2011 8:00am

walks86 wrote: »

ok wow, wasnt expecting this sort of feedback but tbh i think it is great that it is being discussed!

From my perspective I have Pmd several people that got onto me about who the retailer was and it wasn't who everyone seems to be insinuating.

@Garrow: Tbh no I havent gotten onto the retailer in question for several reasons. Firstly If this is their Modus Operandi then they are not going to turn around and "sorry, our bad, here let us fit a new spring and cylinder for you". Secondly I was lied to point blank when I brought it in with issues associated to having a cylinder drilled. And thirdly because I wasnt sure what my rights were yet, hence posting on here to find out.

I have to say that although i can understand the economics (especially after alot of the informed answers on this thread) I still think that there has to be more transparency from retailers that use this method of downgrading. Its all well and good saying "make sure you ask how it is downgraded" but 90% of buyers wouldnt understand this let alone know to ask. I certainly didnt at the time I bought and I had been playing for a year and a half!!

and have to say i think it may actually be better to not name and shame (yet) as all the retailers doing this can have a sweat wondering if it was them!;)

Alright then, case closed. You just want to make drama instead of having a set of stones and going back to the retailer. Grow the **** up.

ricka · 15-05-2011 9:16am

I guess it's obivous at this stage it must be us.
KA free float barrel, then yes we've sold a couple.I've talked briefly on the phone to the guys at work and they remember selling these but can't recall anymore without knowing who you are.The only thing I will say is that a KA free float was sold from the wall with different internals but was sold second hand at a reduced price.We don't change internals on a new riflle,never.I don't know the timeframe for your purchases but it suffices to say if you had approached me I would have sorted this.That's I suppose not really that important here, as I'm sure you would argue that you shouldn't have had too.
If you want ,you can bring it back and we'll sort it or get it done somewhere else and we'll pay for it.However you want to proceed let me know by PM.
To address the drilling issue
Do we do it....yes pretty much since we started selling rifles in volume.
IS it likely the OP's rifle was downgraded in this manner then considering the time frame.....again yes.
Does it happen now.........yes and no.All our high end rifles are now downgraded by spring change however our cheaper CYMA lines are still drilled.
Have we made efforts to stop........yes.
Earlier this year we got 900 springs from QAS and have been fitting them.We took delivery of our latest batch of CYMA and DBOYS M'4 a couple of months ago(192 in total) and all of these are now downgraded by spring change.It's a severe financial sting but it's what we want to do.It's difficult for us financially as 1 person can only do about 15 in a day.
It has always been my intention to stop drilling but maybe for reasons different than you would imagine.I don't, nor do any of my techie guys think it's any way near as detrimental as some would like you believe.Our AK spetz made by Cyma is our best selling rifle.We've sold hundreds if not a couple of thouand of these and i can recall no more than a couple of returns with any problems caused by drilling the cylinder.I wouldn't do it if I felt it was causing problems.
My reasons to stop are more to do with you guys and yes there is something intrinsically wrong with selling a guy a new rifle with a hole in it!
Can we stop completely on our whole range........then I honestly don't know.
I going to discuss with the guys on Monday about a complete stop or giving people the option.There is however one problem with this as that would mean I would have a pretty much permanent stock of illegal overpowered rifles on the premises.It's a big issue for us as there is no provision for this in law.I've always had the mentality of all hands on deck and get these downgraded as quick as possible when we get a delivery.The current legislation does influence your descision on how to downgrade.
There's many more points on this topic I would have addressed however they've already been far better said by someone here already.Shiva's earlier post is well worth a read.Everthing he said in that post is how I feel about the issue.Please go back and read it again and try to see our point of view.
In summary the OP will get sorted and I'm genuinely sorry for the problems you've had.Without doubt you have named,shamed and highlighted an issue which to be honest I've seen coming for some time now.
People who know me would guess how I feel about the title of this thread.I haven't slept a wink.We'll make changes although I'm not quite sure what they'll be.
Give us time and we'll get there

PS If the retailer wasn't us then this is going to be very embarrasing!

TheDoc · 15-05-2011 10:56am

ricka wrote: »

PS If the retailer wasn't us then this is going to be very embarrasing!

But you've also just done yourself a huge favour confirming yourself as one of the reliable retailers by just being honest, as Shiva had earlier above.

se conman · 15-05-2011 11:39am

As I said "ONE OF THE MOST APPROCHABLE PEOPLE IN AIRSOF"
Honesty and balls , one of few people willing to stand up and be counted.
While I already had that opinion of ricka , many newcomers might not know him or other retailers. What I take from this thread is "if you have a problem with a gun and are nervous about going back to the retailer , drop a PM to some of the most regular posters here and ask their advice.You will get a true and honest reply and things will be sorted out with little fuss and no hard feelings.IMHO.

unscrupulous sellers

Comments