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Strange Bidding / EA Practices

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  • 09-07-2019 12:37pm
    #1
    0gac3yjefb5sv7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,948 ✭✭✭


    Hi there,

    I am bidding on a place and we have been increasing in 1k increments since last week. I was 1k behind the other bidder since last week. Yesterday the EA emailed and said the other bidder that was already 1k above me, bid 2k on top of their own bid as she really wants it. Today I called and he said its a bank sale. He then said as the bidding has been going up by 1k for a week or 10 days he wants to close the sale today.

    He said he we are to submit our final bids. So if I bid 20k higher than the other bidder as my best offer, I must pay this amount. This seems very odd.

    It was previously sale agreed at 10k lower than we are currently at but the seller pulled out as the bank was too slow with contracts etc.


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    #2
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,051 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    What is strange? You are being asked to make a final bid as the vendor wants to close sale, what you bid is up to you, if the other bidder is higher, they get it.

    If a previous buyer pulled out after bid was accepted, chances are the sale documents are ready and as price is higher than previous sale agreed, bank are happy to move sale along quickly rather than weeks/months of &1k increments.


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    #3
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 13,021 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    Pheonix10 wrote: »

    He said he we are to submit our final bids. So if I bid 20k higher than the other bidder as my best offer, I must pay this amount. This seems very odd.

    This is normal enough, if you want the house just bid what you think it's worth/what you're willing to pay.


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    #4
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,398 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Pheonix10 wrote: »
    Hi there,

    I am bidding on a place and we have been increasing in 1k increments since last week. I was 1k behind the other bidder since last week. Yesterday the EA emailed and said the other bidder that was already 1k above me, bid 2k on top of their own bid as she really wants it. Today I called and he said its a bank sale. He then said as the bidding has been going up by 1k for a week or 10 days he wants to close the sale today.

    He said he we are to submit our final bids. So if I bid 20k higher than the other bidder as my best offer, I must pay this amount. This seems very odd.

    It was previously sale agreed at 10k lower than we are currently at but the seller pulled out as the bank was too slow with contracts etc.

    Put yourself on the sellers side.

    If you were selling your house, and two buyers gave final bids of 150k and 160k, would you go back to couple B and tell them they can actually have it for 151k?

    Of course you wouldn't.


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    #5
    Wheety
    Registered Users Posts: 5,510 ✭✭✭Wheety


    Pheonix10 wrote: »
    Hi there,

    I am bidding on a place and we have been increasing in 1k increments since last week. I was 1k behind the other bidder since last week. Yesterday the EA emailed and said the other bidder that was already 1k above me, bid 2k on top of their own bid as she really wants it. Today I called and he said its a bank sale. He then said as the bidding has been going up by 1k for a week or 10 days he wants to close the sale today.

    He said he we are to submit our final bids. So if I bid 20k higher than the other bidder as my best offer, I must pay this amount. This seems very odd.

    It was previously sale agreed at 10k lower than we are currently at but the seller pulled out as the bank was too slow with contracts etc.

    It's not Ebay where the system will just on your behalf up to what your willing to pay.

    You have to make a decision now. Bid what your willing to pay or let it go and find somewhere else?


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    #6
    0gac3yjefb5sv7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,948 ✭✭✭0gac3yjefb5sv7


    Wheety wrote: »
    It's not Ebay where the system will just on your behalf up to what your willing to pay.

    You have to make a decision now. Bid what your willing to pay or let it go and find somewhere else?

    Yes but it's a bank sale not a private seller.

    Also what's to stop me just bidding 100k extra and "winning it" and then reducing it by 90k the next week.


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    #7
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,477 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Pheonix10 wrote: »
    Yes but it's a bank sale not a private seller.

    Also what's to stop me just bidding 100k extra and "winning it" and then reducing it by 90k the next week.

    The sale will fall through and the EA will just go back to the other bidder.


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    #8
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,051 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Pheonix10 wrote: »
    Yes but it's a bank sale not a private seller.

    Also what's to stop me just bidding 100k extra and "winning it" and then reducing it by 90k the next week.

    Why the distinction between bank and private seller? They are both private treaty sales where EA is employed to sell the property to the highest bidder.


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    #9
    0gac3yjefb5sv7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,948 ✭✭✭0gac3yjefb5sv7


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Why the distinction between bank and private seller? They are both private treaty sales where EA is employed to sell the property to the highest bidder.

    The bank don't really care how much they get because they have millions. 10 means a lot more to a private seller.


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    #10
    SozBbz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,889 ✭✭✭SozBbz


    Pheonix10 wrote: »
    Yes but it's a bank sale not a private seller.

    Also what's to stop me just bidding 100k extra and "winning it" and then reducing it by 90k the next week.

    I imagine they would just classify you as an absolute clown and refuse to deal with you if you behaved as above.


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    #11
    0gac3yjefb5sv7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,948 ✭✭✭0gac3yjefb5sv7


    SozBbz wrote: »
    I imagine they would just classify you as an absolute clown and refuse to deal with you if you behaved as above.

    Well if they are going to play games...then they should expect to get played back.

    If they wanted to be fair, they could be transparent on the bids. Instead, I could bidding against myself for all I know.


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    #12
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,051 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Pheonix10 wrote: »
    Well if they are going to play games...then they should expect to get played back.

    If they wanted to be fair, they could be transparent on the bids. Instead, I could bidding against myself for all I know.

    They are not playing games by asking for final bids, this is common practice where 2 bidders are bidding in small increments, the vendor just asks both for one final bid.

    Banks are like any/all vendors, they instruct EA to get top value for property. That value will be whichever of your two bids is higher.

    I don’t see your problem with this, you just bid what you think it is worth to you, the other bidder does the same, whichever is higher gets the property.

    As the previous poster said, the EA will recognise you if you bid on another of their properties in future if you pull that stroke.


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    #13
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,889 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Pheonix10 wrote: »
    Well if they are going to play games...then they should expect to get played back.

    If they wanted to be fair, they could be transparent on the bids. Instead, I could bidding against myself for all I know.

    What games are they playing? They want the incremental bidding to stop.

    They are being transparent. You were in a bidding war and now they want it to stop so have asked you to state how much you are willing to pay. If you are willing to pay more than the other bidder you get the property, if they bid more than you they get it.


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    #14
    SozBbz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,889 ✭✭✭SozBbz


    Pheonix10 wrote: »
    Well if they are going to play games...then they should expect to get played back.

    If they wanted to be fair, they could be transparent on the bids. Instead, I could bidding against myself for all I know.

    Great game - blacklisting yourself. You'd be the real winner there.

    Bottom line, as you've been told by numerous posters is that this is common practice and just because you've taken it upon yourself to decide that you think its strange and wrong somehow, doesn't make it so.

    This is the EA bringing things to a swift conclusion, nothing more, nothing less.


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    #15
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,500 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    Pheonix10 wrote: »
    Well if they are going to play games...then they should expect to get played back.

    If they wanted to be fair, they could be transparent on the bids. Instead, I could bidding against myself for all I know.

    It's the most amount of money you will probably ever spend in your life, it's not a game.


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    #16
    0gac3yjefb5sv7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,948 ✭✭✭0gac3yjefb5sv7


    Two issues with it.

    Transparency. The EA could be just using their own phantom bids to bump up their commission.

    The property has been on the market for a while. The bidding would close naturally in the coming days but for some reason they have decided they need it closed today.


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    #17
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,398 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Pheonix10 wrote: »
    Yes but it's a bank sale not a private seller.

    Also what's to stop me just bidding 100k extra and "winning it" and then reducing it by 90k the next week.

    You will have no idea what the second highest bid was. The other person could bid an extra 1k, or an extra 99k. You will never know.

    Bid the max you're willing to pay for that property. You'll either win or lose. If you don't want to make a final bid like this then just move on to the next house.


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    #18
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,398 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Pheonix10 wrote: »
    The bank don't really care how much they get because they have millions. 10 means a lot more to a private seller.

    This is not how it works.

    Banks employ people to ensure they're getting the proper market value for anything they're selling. If anything they'll be more likely to want to squeeze every cent out of it, they aren't selling their home at the end of the day so they don't have the same pressures as a private seller.


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    #19
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Pheonix10 wrote:
    The property has been on the market for a while. The bidding would close naturally in the coming days but for some reason they have decided they need it closed today.

    If you have concerns , you can easily walk away.


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    #20
    duffman13
    Registered Users Posts: 8,946 ✭✭✭duffman13


    Pheonix10 wrote: »
    Two issues with it.

    Transparency. The EA could be just using their own phantom bids to bump up their commission.

    The property has been on the market for a while. The bidding would close naturally in the coming days but for some reason they have decided they need it closed today.

    Transparency, you reckon an estate agent is worried by an extra couple of grand? 5k extra is 50 euro commission or 100 if they are charging 2%. Also phantom bids may happen but most estate agents keep a record formally of bids, I'm pretty sure it was cause of a change in the industry code

    As to your 2nd point, if the bidding is dragging on then actually a private seller might be happy enough to let it keep going. The bank probably just want it off the books now hence the final bid scenario you find yourself in!

    On a practical level, if you think your bidding against no one, leave your bid as is and say your out. You'll find out quickly if you were right but you risk losing the property obviously


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    #21
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,477 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Pheonix10 wrote: »

    Transparency. The EA could be just using their own phantom bids to bump up their commission.

    This comment is thrown around a lot by people that don't understand the system or have no idea how the real world works.

    The EA will not risk a non sale over 10k, never mind 1k!
    The commission on €0k is approx. €200 inclusive of VAT.

    They will not risk losing a sale over €200 and also put at risk not getting the properties from this bank going forward.

    1k increments benefits nobody, it drags it out and you'd argue is costing the EA money to deal with.


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    #22
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,051 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Pheonix10 wrote: »
    Two issues with it.

    Transparency. The EA could be just using their own phantom bids to bump up their commission.

    The property has been on the market for a while. The bidding would close naturally in the coming days but for some reason they have decided they need it closed today.

    Personally I would think that final bids is more transparent than alternate bidding over an extended period. The EA could tell you the other bidder bid 2k every time you bid 1k, this way you just bid what you think it is worth, if you don’t win then you can look up the property price register in a couple of months to confirm the other bid was higher than yours.

    Nothing at all stopping you from putting in a final bid €2k rather than €20k above current highest bid.


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    #23
    Kenno90
    Registered Users Posts: 3,184 ✭✭✭Kenno90


    Im just going to give my personal experience that happened to me less than 2 months ago.

    Was bidding along, offering 1k increments. EA telling me there is 2 other people already offering. I loved the house but had a set limit on how much i was willing to pay.

    The EA knew i wanted it (Had huge amounts of potential)

    Once i went over that, i stopped, he thanked me and i didn't hear from him for a few days. (wasn't expecting to hear from him at all)

    A week later he rings me telling that the previous bidder hasn't given the deposit and that they are looking to go sale agreed today. If my previous offer was still valid i can take it.

    At that point, I said i wasn't interested and that i have another property in mind (bigger, cheaper by 20k)

    He said ok thanks and hung up.

    The next day he rings again and said they are willing to go sale agreed for 5k less than my offer. I said no, that im interested in the other property. He said and i quote
    How low are you willing to go?

    I just said im not interested anymore. The more i thought about it, the more i think there was no other bidders.

    He made it sound like this house was super popular yet 2 months on, he's doing doing open viewings so its obviously not that popular.


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    #24
    amcalester
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    And people say Estate Agent's don't earn their money.


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    #25
    Bigmac1euro
    Registered Users Posts: 1,457 ✭✭✭Bigmac1euro


    Kenno90 wrote: »
    )

    He said ok thanks and hung up.

    The next day he rings again and said they are willing to go sale agreed for 5k less than my offer. I said no, that im interested in the other property. He said and i quote



    I just said im not interested anymore. The more i thought about it, the more i think there was no other bidders.

    He made it sound like this house was super popular yet 2 months on, he's doing doing open viewings so its obviously not that popular.


    Now that is interesting, I wouldn’t trust them.


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    #26
    0gac3yjefb5sv7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,948 ✭✭✭0gac3yjefb5sv7


    Kenno90 wrote: »
    Im just going to give my personal experience that happened to me less than 2 months ago.

    Was bidding along, offering 1k increments. EA telling me there is 2 other people already offering. I loved the house but had a set limit on how much i was willing to pay.

    The EA knew i wanted it (Had huge amounts of potential)

    Once i went over that, i stopped, he thanked me and i didn't hear from him for a few days. (wasn't expecting to hear from him at all)

    A week later he rings me telling that the previous bidder hasn't given the deposit and that they are looking to go sale agreed today. If my previous offer was still valid i can take it.

    At that point, I said i wasn't interested and that i have another property in mind (bigger, cheaper by 20k)

    He said ok thanks and hung up.

    The next day he rings again and said they are willing to go sale agreed for 5k less than my offer. I said no, that im interested in the other property. He said and i quote



    I just said im not interested anymore. The more i thought about it, the more i think there was no other bidders.

    He made it sound like this house was super popular yet 2 months on, he's doing doing open viewings so its obviously not that popular.

    Really interesting. This is why I'm cautious.


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    #27
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Kenno90 wrote: »
    He made it sound like this house was super popular yet 2 months on, he's doing doing open viewings so its obviously not that popular.

    Which does rather support the argument that it's not in the agents interest to monkey around for the sake of an extra couple of thousand on the sale price.


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    #28
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,398 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Kenno90 wrote: »
    Im just going to give my personal experience that happened to me less than 2 months ago.

    Was bidding along, offering 1k increments. EA telling me there is 2 other people already offering. I loved the house but had a set limit on how much i was willing to pay.

    The EA knew i wanted it (Had huge amounts of potential)

    Once i went over that, i stopped, he thanked me and i didn't hear from him for a few days. (wasn't expecting to hear from him at all)

    A week later he rings me telling that the previous bidder hasn't given the deposit and that they are looking to go sale agreed today. If my previous offer was still valid i can take it.

    At that point, I said i wasn't interested and that i have another property in mind (bigger, cheaper by 20k)

    He said ok thanks and hung up.

    The next day he rings again and said they are willing to go sale agreed for 5k less than my offer. I said no, that im interested in the other property. He said and i quote



    I just said im not interested anymore. The more i thought about it, the more i think there was no other bidders.

    He made it sound like this house was super popular yet 2 months on, he's doing doing open viewings so its obviously not that popular.

    There could be any number of reasons for this.


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    #29
    0gac3yjefb5sv7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,948 ✭✭✭0gac3yjefb5sv7


    Graham wrote: »
    Which does rather support the argument that it's not in the agents interest to monkey around for the sake of an extra couple of thousand.

    So why make up fake bids like happened in 07? Has to be a reason.


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    #30
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    I've no idea what you are referring to with 07.

    Nobody can force you to pay more for a property than you think it is worth. Bid up-to what you think the property is worth or walk away.

    If you think the property is worth your last offer, tell the agent that's where your offer stands.


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    #31
    happyfriday74
    Registered Users Posts: 194 ✭✭happyfriday74


    I'm out of the sales game a while but bringing the process to best bids is completely normal in a situation where multiple parties are continually bidding in small increments for a period of time.

    People hate being outbid by small bids over and over and soon drop out.

    A common tactic of Investors more so then owner occupiers is outbid other parties steadily in small increments to drive off the competition. They could be doing this on a number of similar properties and may only intend on following through on one of them. This tactic stops the purchase price from raising too high too quickly.

    Quite often a party doing this scares off everyone else with endless small bids, get sale agreed and then walk from the sale.

    The other underbidders are then approached but are fed up from earlier process, are no longer interested or put on tin foil hats about phantom bidders( Folks- this is not a common practice with a licenced auctioneer- Ireland is too small and reputations are everything in this business)

    Bringing closure to the sales process by asking the remaining parties for best bids you can get all the real bids out in the open.

    The messer who is playing for time with tiny bids has to suddenly make a realistic final offer if he/she is serious about proceeding and you will get 2 or 3 serious offers to consider and go with instead of just one if you let it keep going in small increases.


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