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Tier 2 proposals published

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13

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    #62
    cms88
    Registered Users Posts: 1,572 ✭✭✭cms88


    westcork67 wrote: »
    A "B" championship that doesn't afford the winner (or finalists) a route back into the main championship in the same year is a dead duck - simple as!!

    Most lads won't train their holes off for the guts of a year to win a B championship and then that's it - whereas if they thought they could get a crack at an A-Team in the quarterfinals or preliminary quarterfinals that would motivate you - look at Laois in the hurling this year and what it did for the county beating Dublin

    Most lads in a B-team are:
    Not sure of their place on the panel the following year - could be a manager change and face doesn't fit etc
    Unsure of their work/home situation and ability to commit for the next year
    Injuries etc

    Players think in the current year because they have to, and you need to give the B-team players something big to go for in the same year - otherwise, despite all the plamas from the GAA about media coverage etc it will be the Tommy Murphy all over again

    But Laois got there by winning what's mosre or less a B championship.


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    #63
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Just even up the provinces to 8’s for a start. If Galway can hurl in Leinster then Donegal or Westmeath can play football in Connacht or Wexford can play football in Munster. Then top 4’s - 16A, bottom 4’s - 16B.


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    #64
    Nidgeweasel
    Registered Users Posts: 2,621 ✭✭✭Nidgeweasel


    ReginaldSmythV wrote: »
    Just even up the provinces to 8’s for a start. If Galway can hurl in Leinster then Donegal or Westmeath can play football in Connacht or Wexford can play football in Munster. Then top 4’s - 16A, bottom 4’s - 16B.

    Ulster says no.


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    #65
    downthemiddle
    Registered Users Posts: 2,896 ✭✭✭downthemiddle


    Nidgeweasel wrote: »
    Ulster says no.

    In fairness we will give them the team Rory is responsible for in any given year.


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    #66
    Hawkeye9212
    Closed Accounts Posts: 325 ✭✭Hawkeye9212


    I like the format used by Kildare for their senior championship.

    32 teams play in the first round after which all 32 teams will go into four groups of four with two winners and two losers from the opening round in each of those groups.

    Round 1

    Westmeath v Tyrone
    Kerry v Offaly
    Waterford v London
    Wicklow v Donegal
    Carlow v Fermanagh
    Meath v Wexford
    Armagh v Dublin
    Sligo v Cork
    Mayo v Down
    Laois v Kildare
    Tipperary v Limerick
    Leitrim v Louth
    Galway v Derry
    Longford v Cavan
    Clare v Roscommon
    Monaghan v Antrim

    Group Stage

    Single or double round-robin.

    1st and 2nd - Round of 16
    3rd and 4th - Eliminated from the championship

    Group A

    Tyrone
    Galway
    Armagh
    Derry

    Group B

    Roscommon
    Westmeath
    Limerick
    Wexford

    Group C

    Dublin
    Cavan
    Tipperary
    Wicklow

    Group D

    Monaghan
    Clare
    Louth
    Sligo

    Group E

    Cork
    Waterford
    London
    Carlow

    Group F

    Kerry
    Donegal
    Laois
    Antrim

    Group G

    Meath
    Fermanagh
    Down
    Longford

    Group H

    Mayo
    Kildare
    Offaly
    Leitrim

    Round of 16

    The first-placed teams in each group get home advantage for this round.

    Tyrone v Kildare
    Mayo v Galway
    Monaghan v Waterford
    Cork v Clare
    Roscommon v Fermanagh
    Meath v Westmeath
    Dublin v Donegal
    Kerry v Cavan

    Quarter-Finals

    Neutral venues are used for this round.

    Tyrone v Mayo (Croke Park)
    Monaghan v Cork (Croke Park)
    Roscommon v Meath (Croke Park)
    Dublin v Kerry (Semple Stadium)

    Semi-Finals

    Mayo v Monaghan
    Roscommon v Dublin

    Final

    Mayo v Dublin


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    #67
    Hawkeye9212
    Closed Accounts Posts: 325 ✭✭Hawkeye9212


    Cork boss McCarthy opposes a second tier championship.


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    #68
    cms88
    Registered Users Posts: 1,572 ✭✭✭cms88


    Hawkeye9212 wrote: »
    Cork boss McCarthy opposes a second tier championship.

    A quote from him and this is something that does annoy me.

    “People might say, what else is he going to say given Cork are in Division 3. But if you leave Cork out of it and look at a team like Down, they will be in Division 3 for a second successive year next year and yet they ran Mayo extremely close at Páirc Esler in the qualifiers during the summer. Tipperary are in Division 3 next year and they got to an All-Ireland semi-final in 2016.''

    He says Down ran Mayo close, that's true but they still lost. Saying Tipp got to the All-Ireland semi-final three years ago, what does that have to do with it?


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    #69
    Hawkeye9212
    Closed Accounts Posts: 325 ✭✭Hawkeye9212


    cms88 wrote: »
    A quote from him and this is something that does annoy me.

    “People might say, what else is he going to say given Cork are in Division 3. But if you leave Cork out of it and look at a team like Down, they will be in Division 3 for a second successive year next year and yet they ran Mayo extremely close at Páirc Esler in the qualifiers during the summer. Tipperary are in Division 3 next year and they got to an All-Ireland semi-final in 2016.''

    He says Down ran Mayo close, that's true but they still lost. Saying Tipp got to the All-Ireland semi-final three years ago, what does that have to do with it?

    They lost but their performance against Mayo suggests that they shouldn't be in a Tier 2 competition. Division 3 teams can compete against those in Division 2 so it doesn't make sense to split them. I think that is his point.


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    #70
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Has to be split some way though and they can’t cherry pick teams based on one performance. Anything that makes the league more important is a good thing anyway.


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    #71
    Hawkeye9212
    Closed Accounts Posts: 325 ✭✭Hawkeye9212


    ReginaldSmythV wrote: »
    Has to be split some way though and they can’t cherry pick teams based on one performance. Anything that makes the league more important is a good thing anyway.

    It's not just one performance. He is basing his opinion on results in the past several seasons. The skill gap requires at least three tiers if we are going down this road.

    Tier 1

    Kerry, Mayo, Dublin, Tyrone, Galway, Monaghan, Donegal, Meath, Roscommon, and Cavan.

    Tier 2

    Fermanagh, Kildare, Armagh, Kildare, Westmeath, Laois, Tipperary, Cork, Down, Louth, Longford, and Offaly.

    Tier 3

    Derry, Leitrim, Carlow, Sligo, Antrim, Waterford, Wicklow, Wexford, Limerick, and London.


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    #72
    cms88
    Registered Users Posts: 1,572 ✭✭✭cms88


    ReginaldSmythV wrote: »
    Has to be split some way though and they can’t cherry pick teams based on one performance. Anything that makes the league more important is a good thing anyway.

    This is an issue imo. People will use one off reuslt, a lot of the time when a team loses, as a reason againest it. Carlow a few years ago was a very good example, people saying they wouldn'tt have had that kinda of run in a B championship, ignoring the fact that the only teams they actually beat were also Div 4 teams


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    #73
    Bonniedog
    Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    Hawkeye9212 wrote: »
    Cork boss McCarthy opposes a second tier championship.



    That's all I need to hear.

    How could Cork be consigned to a lower tier on basis of two good performances against the two finalists?

    Their league form clearly has nothing to do with how they can compete in the Summer, and they obviously have players coming through who should not be playing below senior.


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    #74
    threeball
    Registered Users Posts: 7,959 ✭✭✭threeball


    cms88 wrote: »
    This is an issue imo. People will use one off reuslt, a lot of the time when a team loses, as a reason againest it. Carlow a few years ago was a very good example, people saying they wouldn't have had that kinda of run in a B championship, ignoring the fact that the only teams they actually beat were also Div 4 teams

    If you use the league as the basis for inclusion in the championship then it takes away all the moaning. 3 tiers to the league, if you're in division 2 or 3 you get to play in the All Ireland, if you're in division 3 at the end of the league you don't get to participate this year. Simple as that.
    Straight knockout championship, open draw to re-instill the bit of bite and the possibility of a shock. Both competitions will be the better for it. Play the provincials through the league as a bonus for teams going well early. Gives the smaller counties a better chance as the big lads will be priming themselves for the latter stages of championship.


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    #75
    Hawkeye9212
    Closed Accounts Posts: 325 ✭✭Hawkeye9212


    https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2019/0929/1078982-gpa-gpa-inferior-tier-2-format-being-rushed-through/

    GPA & CPA oppose Horan's proposal for a two tier championship.


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    #76
    PTH2009
    Registered Users Posts: 37,853 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    The Munster draw may cause an issue with this new championship

    QFs
    Limerick (Div 4) vs Waterford (Div 4)
    Clare (Div 2) vs Tippeary (Div 3)

    SFs
    Cork (Div 3) vs Kerry (Div 1)
    QF winner vs QF winner


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    #77
    blowitupref
    Registered Users Posts: 2,022 ✭✭✭blowitupref


    2nd tier confirmed for 2020 and to be decided on where teams finishes in the NFL this spring (Cork will be happy with that)

    2nd tier was scrapped 11 years ago so basically those at the top have gone backwards as they tweak the Gaa championship once more.


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    #78
    Always_Running
    Registered Users Posts: 1,770 ✭✭✭Always_Running


    I don't see the sense of bringing something back that was a total failure. Yes right now HQ are promising it will be promoted better and the latter stages of the tier 2 comp will be televised but even if they stick to their word it will hardly bring such a competition to life.

    The one thing I take from it is that Division two in the NFL will be the most competitive of the four groups over the next few years. You'll have the 4 or 5 pushing for promotion and the rest fighting for their life's to avoid that Tommy Murphy Cup mark 2 competition in the summer.


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    #79
    franglan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,365 ✭✭✭franglan


    So it'll be televised and I take it there will be no change to the existing TV rights package no doubt. Push this through now and sure we'll sort out the detail later. Like turkeys actually voting for Christmas. If there's no back door from winning the tier 2 in to that year's super 8 stage there's no point to it. It's a second tier national title against teams that showed less interest than you did in the competition.


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    #80
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Can’t understand why they’ve totally undermined the fixtures task force by pushing this through. For someone who I thought would always have been a great president, Horan has been a selfish disgrace.


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    #81
    Say Your Number
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,877 Mod ✭✭✭✭Say Your Number


    Ludicrous, the gap between Division 3/4 and the rest will only get bigger.


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    #82
    PTH2009
    Registered Users Posts: 37,853 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    prescient seems to be changing in the GAA and it's slowly breaking away from traditions of old. All high tech training methods and different competitions like the world games etc

    The days of the local this and that lining out for the team is slowly changing. I think this rushed calendar year is killing intercounty interest. Half the teams are out of the Championship before the primary kids/Exam students are on summer holidays


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    #83
    franglan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,365 ✭✭✭franglan


    Just a collection of decisions made today that don't deal with the perceived issues in gaelic football at intercounty level. For me the mark inside the attacking 45 fundamentally changes our game and games could well turn into a catch and freetaking competition. These rules are being quickly brought in for the advancement of the intercounty scene but will have a bigger effect on the 99% of the players of our game - the club player. The sin bin in a junior b game will be hard managed if there's 3 lads in the bin at the same time and there's only one actual neutral official there - the referee. As I've said the mark fundamentally changes our game and you could see the same ball going into the same player again and again at lower levels of the game. I honestly think it may turn me off continuing to play. FYI - apologies if off topic.


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    #84
    Davys Fits
    Registered Users Posts: 504 ✭✭✭Davys Fits


    franglan wrote: »
    Just a collection of decisions made today that don't deal with the perceived issues in gaelic football at intercounty level. For me the mark inside the attacking 45 fundamentally changes our game and games could well turn into a catch and freetaking competition. These rules are being quickly brought in for the advancement of the intercounty scene but will have a bigger effect on the 99% of the players of our game - the club player. The sin bin in a junior b game will be hard managed if there's 3 lads in the bin at the same time and there's only one actual neutral official there - the referee. As I've said the mark fundamentally changes our game and you could see the same ball going into the same player again and again at lower levels of the game. I honestly think it may turn me off continuing to play. FYI - apologies if off topic.

    Very true. So many change been made to fix a problem. You end up not knowing what fixed it or what made it worse.


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    #85
    Mehapoy
    Registered Users Posts: 629 ✭✭✭Mehapoy


    So basically GAA HQ had a 10 minute think about tier2, found it was too hard to come up with something innoative or genuinely engaging, and decide to revive the Tommy Murphy cup with added 'all stars' and pushed it through before the fixtures commitee came up with their proposals! Sometimes the GAA are as dysfunctional as the FAI just in a different way...


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    #86
    intellectual dosser
    Registered Users Posts: 1,826 ✭✭✭intellectual dosser


    Another death knell in inter county Gaelic Football.

    Congress has been doing more than enough damage on an annual basis without the need for special sittings.


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    #87
    grbear
    Registered Users Posts: 693 ✭✭✭grbear


    ReginaldSmythV wrote: »
    Can’t understand why they’ve totally undermined the fixtures task force by pushing this through. For someone who I thought would always have been a great president, Horan has been a selfish disgrace.

    I'll just use a direct quote from yesterday's Independent
    "John Horan, a staunch proponent of the tier two proposals which will now be the signature moment of his office".


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    #88
    ArielAtom
    Registered Users Posts: 2,573 ✭✭✭ArielAtom


    ReginaldSmythV wrote: »
    Can’t understand why they’ve totally undermined the fixtures task force by pushing this through. For someone who I thought would always have been a great president, Horan has been a selfish disgrace.

    As far as I know this was voted on by the organisation and not a Horan decision on his own, maybe people should look to their own county board and see how they voted. Was it above 75%? That is a lot of yes's!!!!


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    #89
    cms88
    Registered Users Posts: 1,572 ✭✭✭cms88


    ArielAtom wrote: »
    As far as I know this was voted on by the organisation and not a Horan decision on his own, maybe people should look to their own county board and see how they voted. Was it above 75%? That is a lot of yes's!!!!

    While Horan seems to have been bery keen to get it done before he left it was couty boards who voted for it.

    I've been saying ti for years and still stand by it. What's the issue with it? People keep going on about coverage etc Are Div 3/4 teams getting wall to wall covrage as it is?

    If they dont want to play in a second tier it's pretty simple, either win it or get themselves to a level where they can get to a provincal final


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    #90
    Bleating Lamb
    Registered Users Posts: 4,543 ✭✭✭Bleating Lamb


    Didn’t see coverage at weekend...how does the new 2 tier system actually work?....Leitrim man here who has felt that a 2 tier Championship has being badly needed for years.


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    #91
    Hawkeye9212
    Closed Accounts Posts: 325 ✭✭Hawkeye9212


    Bleating Lamb wrote: »
    Didn’t see coverage at weekend...how does the new 2 tier system actually work?....Leitrim man here who has felt that a 2 tier Championship has being badly needed for years.

    Leitrim will drop into Tier 2 if they fail to qualify for the Connacht final or secure promotion to Division 2.


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