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Unusual death, where can I find more about it?

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  • 10-11-2011 6:44pm
    #1
    R0C
    Registered Users Posts: 370 ✭✭


    My Great Great Grandfather was a man named Patrick Hereward (also written as Herward, Howard, Harwood, Herwood). He died age 40, on 18 March 1875 [according to his grave], after being hit in the head with a large stone.

    Patrick lived in Kilcommon, Roose, in south County Mayo, and was apparently trying to break up a fight between neighbours in Scardaun, near Claremorris, when one of the men involved threw a stone at his head. He apparently did not die immediately.

    The details I had of the incident came from an elderly family member [long deceased] but recent research showed the facts to be correct.

    The Church record states his age as 35, surname as Howard and date of death as 23 March 1875. Cause of death recorded as “from the effects of a blow of a stone on the head.”

    I have in the past paid membership to some of the newspaper sites online and spent days browsing, trying to find some mention of Patrick's death, or some details of what actually happened, searching with variations in the spelling of his surname, but I had no luck. I've visited the library and tried to work through local papers but couldn't spot anything.

    I'm curious as to how I could find out more about this incident, i.e. who threw the stone, who was fighting, why Patrick was there, whether anyone was prosecuted for it.

    Are there likely to be any police records or such available that could tell me more, and where would I go about finding them?

    I'd appreciate any pointers.

    Patrick left behind a wife, Mary Conroy, and four children, James, Patrick, Bridget and Mary. His death apparently had a huge effect on his family and particularly his young children.


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    #2
    CeannRua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 470 ✭✭CeannRua


    The police (RIC) records for the time are in the UK National Archives. I'm not familiar with them but kind of doubt you would get this kind of detail. I think our own National Archives might be your best bet in terms of court or inquest records. Strange though you haven't found a newspaper article if there was a prosecution or inquest. A poster mentioned on another thread recently that Irish prison records are now available at www.findmypast.ie and that victims of crime are sometimes named.


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    #3
    R0C
    Registered Users Posts: 370 ✭✭R0C


    I actually signed up to findmypast.ie to see if there would be anything there but couldn't find anyone fitting the bill under 'victims' unfortunately.

    (I did however find loads of prison records for my other Great Grandfather PJ Gordon who I've posted about here before so it was well worth my while signing up!) :D

    Perhaps I've just been unlucky and not found the right paper, but I've gone through a lot for the time period and find it very strange that it wasn't reported anywhere that I looked.


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    #4
    mari2222
    Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭mari2222


    might the county library hold some records of the period?


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    #5
    ZombieBride
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,127 ✭✭✭ZombieBride


    The Mayo Library have the local newspapers from the time in microfiche, that would give you great insight, as the local newspapers at the time didn't have to report to anyone at the time so were packed full off tit-bits.

    http://www.mayolibrary.ie/en/LocalStudies/Newspapers/

    edit : On re-reading your post I noticed that you've already tried this avenue.


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    #6
    R0C
    Registered Users Posts: 370 ✭✭R0C


    Thanks for the replies.

    Yes, about two years ago I put in a lot of time at the Mayo library going through the microfilm but didn't spot anything. Now I wasn't aware the name was being written as 'Howard' at that time, but even still I think I would have spotted it if the other details sat right.

    I mostly just looked through the March and April 1875 papers, and it is possible I missed something, but I guess I'm wondering if there's any easier way now to search than going back through the microfilm again. While it's interesting to read the old papers, there is a huge amount of work when seeking something in particular.


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    #7
    CeannRua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 470 ✭✭CeannRua


    I know this is the wrong first name but have you seen this?
    http://newspapers.bl.uk/blcs/basicSearch.do;jsessionid=83C0B9BAFA3E653F5E8095A197A903F1

    If link doesn't work search the Belfast News-Letter dated 29 March 1875 for the name Herwood.


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    #8
    R0C
    Registered Users Posts: 370 ✭✭R0C


    Oh - fantastic find! I can't see all of this, I guess I'd have to be a member, but I can see the tiny preview and I assume that says Claremorris fair. We are the only line with this surname anywhere in the region, so it is almost certainly him with an incorrect first name. Are you able to view this article?

    I hadn't searched that paper before, didn't expect anything to be written about it up there!


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    #9
    CeannRua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 470 ✭✭CeannRua


    You can buy various passes. I actually looked there last night but whatever way I did it this didn't pop up. The other thing I noticed was that the system is misreading some words so you may want to get 'creative' and search for a few things that could be keywords. Also, I was looking through some papers a few months ago and came across some unusual type deaths but in some cases the name of victim was not given. So might be an idea for search for locations etc etc.


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    #10
    R0C
    Registered Users Posts: 370 ✭✭R0C


    Thanks so much CeannRua for spotting this as I never would have.

    Now I have the information I need to hopefully gain some further leads at Findmypast with their prison records.

    One of the names of the men involved is of huge interest also and allows other tidbits of info I'd heard to make sense to me now.


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    #11
    R0C
    Registered Users Posts: 370 ✭✭R0C


    I found one more article on this case [attached] and that gives me more info than I ever thought I'd get. I don't see any follow-ups under any combination of words I'm searching after the verdict was deferred, but at least now I know it was dealt with in some way by the police at the time and that the facts passed down through the years were all accurate.


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    #12
    CeannRua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 470 ✭✭CeannRua


    Poor man - those reports don't make very nice reading. At least now you have some date references to look at the local papers again. If nothing shows up re the sentencing, I would definitely be asking the National Archives about the whereabouts of the court records...


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    #13
    R0C
    Registered Users Posts: 370 ✭✭R0C


    Nothing showing up on findmypast in the court records, but I'll keep searching, there has to be more on this somewhere. I'll definitely look into the court records further, very interested to see more now.


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