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Garda corruption Units

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  • 21-05-2008 4:37pm
    #1
    mondeo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,666 ✭✭✭


    Are there any units in Ireland who monitor the Gardai and hunt out corruption?
    Not Garda members themselves ratting on eachother like whats happened in Donegal but non member units devoted to follow and track down garda behaving badly on the spot? Do they actually exist or is it just investigation upon complaint first?

    Cheers


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    #2
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,792 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Moved from European Union. Not sure what it was doing there.


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    #3
    ojewriej
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,468 ✭✭✭ojewriej


    Do you mean like a Garda Ombudsman?


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    #4
    shakin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,213 ✭✭✭shakin


    garda ombudsman
    garda complaints board


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    #5
    cushtac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭cushtac


    The Garda Complaints Board no longer exists, it was replaced by the Ombudsman.


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    #6
    mondeo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,666 ✭✭✭mondeo


    cushtac wrote: »
    The Garda Complaints Board no longer exists, it was replaced by the Ombudsman.


    Yes but the Ombudsman only investigate when a member of the public makes a complaint? Theres no special forces or members of some organization outside the Gardai involved in clamping down on corruption? The Garda Ombudsman are members of the gards themselves therefore they can protect their own as so to speak.


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    #7
    FGR
    Registered Users Posts: 2,448 ✭✭✭FGR


    There is an internal affairs unit in the Garda and procedures have been updated in recent months to allow members to inform the relevant authorities of corrupt activities by another member.

    I can't be more specific than that I'm afraid as that's as much as I got from CPD.


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    #8
    cushtac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭cushtac


    mondeo wrote: »
    Yes but the Ombudsman only investigate when a member of the public makes a complaint?

    No, the Ombudsman Commission is empowered by law to investigate any incident where it appears that a Garda may have committed an offence or behaved in a way that would justify disciplinary proceedings, even if no complaint has been made.
    mondeo wrote: »
    Theres no special forces or members of some organization outside the Gardai involved in clamping down on corruption? The Garda Ombudsman are members of the gards themselves therefore they can protect their own as so to speak.

    Have you read up on the GSOC at all? That is totally wrong. The Ombudsman Commission is not part of the Gardai, it's an independent body. Currently it's investigators are former police officers recruited from other Common Law countries.


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    #9
    ojewriej
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,468 ✭✭✭ojewriej


    mondeo wrote: »
    Yes but the Ombudsman only investigate when a member of the public makes a complaint? Theres no special forces or members of some organization outside the Gardai involved in clamping down on corruption? The Garda Ombudsman are members of the gards themselves therefore they can protect their own as so to speak.

    Ombudsman is completely independent from GS, afaik there is no ex-members working for him.

    What exactly is your question? Is there someone investigating every member of GS just in case he is corrupted?


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    #10
    mondeo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,666 ✭✭✭mondeo


    thanks for the info


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    #11
    mondeo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,666 ✭✭✭mondeo


    ojewriej wrote: »
    Ombudsman is completely independent from GS, afaik there is no ex-members working for him.

    What exactly is your question? Is there someone investigating every member of GS just in case he is corrupted?

    Yes somthing along thoses lines..


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    #12
    ojewriej
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,468 ✭✭✭ojewriej


    mondeo wrote: »
    Yes somthing along thoses lines..

    And how would that work? Do you haver examples of organisations like this from other countries?


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    #13
    mondeo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,666 ✭✭✭mondeo


    ojewriej wrote: »
    And how would that work? Do you haver examples of organisations like this from other countries?

    Ideally to monitor members on a said basis. From what I believe in Africa where police corruption is high and the border of Mexico there is or have been individuals setup to implement these procedures


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    #14
    ojewriej
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,468 ✭✭✭ojewriej


    mondeo wrote: »
    Ideally to monitor members on a said basis.

    Yes, but how exactly?

    mondeo wrote: »
    From what I believe in Africa where police corruption is high and the border of Mexico there is or have been individuals setup to implement these procedures

    Do you have any examples not from developing countries?


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    #15
    mondeo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,666 ✭✭✭mondeo


    ojewriej wrote: »
    Yes, but how exactly?




    Do you have any examples not from developing countries?

    I dont know how exactly thats why I was asking here...

    No I dont sorry..


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    #16
    cushtac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭cushtac


    mondeo wrote: »
    Still does not really answer my query though regarding outside sources with some sort of power to pin a Garda or at least monitor their work in a form of following them secretly about their dutys and taking it from there if they smell a rat in them.

    What are you looking for? Some sort of secret police that monitors Gardai on the sly in the hope of catching them out?

    The GSOC investigators have the same powers of arrest as Gardai; they can obtain the same warrants as Gardai; they can summons people and gather evidence like Gardai and have the authority to enter a Garda station. In addition the GSOC have the power to compel a Garda to account for his actions, so Gardai actually have less rights than ordinary civillians. There's not much more power you can give them without getting into Gestapo territory.


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    #17
    Eru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,357 ✭✭✭Eru


    All above on GSOC and while they dont patrol they do ask for and look into Garda matters independent of complaints too make sure things are being done properly and above board.


    I presume he is looking for a proactive Internal affairs? Afraid I have had no dealings with Garda internal affairs and as I understand it now that GSOC exists IA is only dealing with minor breaches of dicsipline that GSOC dont care about.

    NYPD IA is proactive and cleaned a whole mess that previously existed. Also know that CIB were brought into the London MET as a proactive unit to investigate corrupton without complaints. Both were very thorough and effective but I also understand that there are problems connected with CIB actions and the new discipline proceedures in the London MET. Sure Metman can explain better than me.


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    #18
    FGR
    Registered Users Posts: 2,448 ✭✭✭FGR


    Garda IA focuses on Disciplinary matters and also deal with internal reports for other Garda members. Whether they proceed with a criminal prosecution themselves or hand the entire matter over to the Ombudsman is an entirely different matter.

    I can't imaigne them handing it over though as the Ombudsman clearly states that Garda members cannot contact them in relation to such affairs.

    Karlitos - Did you get my IM by any chance?


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    #19
    metman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭metman


    Karlitosway1978 wrote: »
    Also know that CIB were brought into the London MET as a proactive unit to investigate corrupton without complaints. Both were very thorough and effective but I also understand that there are problems connected with CIB actions and the new discipline proceedures in the London MET. Sure Metman can explain better than me.

    Its now called DPS, Directorate of Professional Standards. They have both reactive and proactive teams. I've only ever had contact with them in relation to a complaint, notification of which I received via email. It wasn't followed up by DPS though.

    The procedure in a reactive investigation is that initially you're advised of the complaint and the substance thereof, then you'll be officially handed (served) your complaint by an Inspector. Depending on what it is you may have to wait for any criminal investigation to take place before DPS will interview you under caution and make a decision as to what sanction will be imposed.

    Their proactive teams I've seen advertise for staff on the intranet jobs page, its not something that holds any interest for me, but I imagine the procedure would be you getting an early knock on the door and some geezer in a suit telling you you'll be spending the day in a station other than your own.


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    #20
    Eru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,357 ✭✭✭Eru


    metman wrote: »
    Their proactive teams I've seen advertise for staff on the intranet jobs page, its not something that holds any interest for me, but I imagine the procedure would be you getting an early knock on the door and some geezer in a suit telling you you'll be spending the day in a station other than your own.

    Some of the stuff I heard was people being simple told that the force 'had lost faith' in them without ever being found innocent or guilty of anything. Also heard where CIB rang stations and asked for information on an area on the pretext that the officer was transfering in but in reality it was to check his phone manner, racism, etc. Which is a joke, your entitled to an opinion and if you think your being asked for this by an officer in confidence then your entitled to give it.


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    #21
    metman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭metman


    Karlitosway1978 wrote: »
    Some of the stuff I heard was people being simple told that the force 'had lost faith' in them without ever being found innocent or guilty of anything.

    I knew of an old school skipper that was nicked for 'corruption' many moons ago and was suspended for years while he was investigated. Surprise surprise he was never told the substance of the allegation against him and the investigation was dropped. Not too common nowadays. DPS from what I'm led to believe mostly conduct operations into cops using drugs and theft of property. There were also those numpties just recently buying Saville Row suits, holidays, posh meals out etc on the job credit card :rolleyes: Needless to say I've seen on GOs that the result has been sackings and time inside for all concerned.......stoooopid.

    Corruption was always more likely to be found inside the CID where you had people with access to serious money, drugs, vice etc who rubbed shoulders with powerful villains. As part of the Met's house clearing exercise in the 80s and 90s the job introduced a system of maximum tenure in any role. So nowadays there's no such thing as spending your entire career in, say, Flying Squad. You can only do a maximum of 7 or 8 years I think it is. This means officers don't get too comfortable in any particular role.


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