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Cocker spaniel puppy- are there any non greedy people out there???

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  • 27-02-2021 10:06am
    #1
    Tush155
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭


    We thought we had finally found a cocker spaniel puppy (our 11 year old cocker went over the rainbow bridge in April) contacted person we originally got her from and by chance they had a cocker due a litter, big chat about the extortionate prices being charged (even mentioned their relative was considering paying 1000 for a puppy a few months earlier which they found ridiculous) and they definitely wouldn’t be doing that. Contacted again a few weeks after birth, poor baby had lost some of the litter and they would be in contact again once a little older with pictures. Again asked for price, they’d discuss and come back, they did Thursday €1750!!!
    Our son (who has ASD) believes our new dog must be similar to our last so we do not have the option of any puppy. I’m so annoyed, this person had our hopes up for nothing! Is there anyone out there who isn’t in it solely for the money???!!!


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    #2
    Knine
    Registered Users Posts: 3,761 ✭✭✭Knine


    Reputable Breeders are not charging these prices but we are inundated with people looking for a pup. I get 10 to 15 messages a week. €1000 for a well bred puppy from health tested parents is about the norm. €1750 for puppies from pets is crazy. For my breed in the UK they are being sold for 3.5k for the pet trade.

    The main issue is people want a puppy & they want one now! Nobody wants to wait. They expect us to churn them out like Tesco groceries. Many people decided not to breed in case their puppies are brought to be sold on for huge profit or as breeding machines.

    It might be a good idea to explain as best you can that every dog is different. Personally having had Cockers, I'm not sure that they would be the best choice for a child with ASD. If you have your heart set on one, have you contacted the Cocker Breed Club?


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    #3
    Tush155
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭Tush155


    Knine wrote: »
    Reputable Breeders are not charging these prices but we are inundated with people looking for a pup. I get 10 to 15 messages a week. €1000 for a well bred puppy from health tested parents is about the norm. €1750 for puppies from pets is crazy. For my breed in the UK they are being sold for 3.5k for the pet trade.

    The main issue is people want a puppy & they want one now! Nobody wants to wait. They expect us to churn them out like Tesco groceries. Many people decided not to breed in case their puppies are brought to be sold on for huge profit or as breeding machines.

    It might be a good idea to explain as best you can that every dog is different. Personally having had Cockers, I'm not sure that they would be the best choice for a child with ASD. If you have your heart set on one, have you contacted the Cocker Breed Club?

    Thank you for your reply. We paid €400 from a breeder, now I understand that this was 11 years ago but an increase of €600 by reputable breeders? That’s some hike!
    I have tried to explain but he then gets upset about our old dog. He loved her, to be honest she was brilliant with him - maybe it was just her individual temperament.
    We are willing to wait another 10 months but our house definitely doesn’t feel like a home without


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    #4
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    You may as well complain anyone selling anything is being greedy by charging the market rate.

    The sale price for any dog has massively increased since the pandemic. Everyone walking dogs.

    You might have better luck in 6-9 months. There may even be a lot of people handing dogs back to dog homes they can no longer mind properly as they go back to work.

    Good luck.


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    #5
    Knine
    Registered Users Posts: 3,761 ✭✭✭Knine


    Tush155 wrote: »
    Thank you for your reply. We paid €400 from a breeder, now I understand that this was 11 years ago but an increase of €600 by reputable breeders? That’s some hike!
    I have tried to explain but he then gets upset about our old dog. He loved her, to be honest she was brilliant with him - maybe it was just her individual temperament.
    We are willing to wait another 10 months but our house definitely doesn’t feel like a home without

    Have you any idea how much health testing & stud fees for a quality dog cost? The price of putting your life on hold for at least 3 months? €400 per pup would not even cover your costs. It would not even cover my stud fees or travel to the stud! Add in possibly AI or a section in the middle of the night? Registration fees, IKC membership, prefix registration, worming, vaccinations, bedding, toys, food, extra bin charges, whelping supplies. Being at home 24/7 & the sheer hard work of rearing the litter. It is constant cleaning up after them once they hit 3 weeks.

    In my breed & many small breeds you might be lucky to get 3 pups. Often you lose money. You might have to wait for than 10 months. people forget bitches only come into season twice a year if you are lucky! You also won't find these breeders advertising on online sites.


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    #6
    Tush155
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭Tush155


    Knine wrote: »
    Have you any idea how much health testing & stud fees for a quality dog cost? The price of putting your life on hold for at least 3 months? €400 per pup would not even cover your costs. It would not even cover my stud fees or travel to the stud! Add in possibly AI or a section in the middle of the night? Registration fees, IKC membership, prefix registration, worming, vaccinations, bedding, toys, food, extra bin charges, whelping supplies. Being at home 24/7 & the sheer hard work of rearing the litter. It is constant cleaning up after them once they hit 3 weeks.

    In my breed & many small breeds you might be lucky to get 3 pups. Often you lose money. You might have to wait for than 10 months. people forget bitches only come into season twice a year if you are lucky! You also won't find these breeders advertising on online sites.

    Apologies, I did not mean to cause any offence.
    I have contacted kennel club, no response, pedigreedogs. Any others I could try? Puppy is only for family pet, will not be showing or breeding.


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    #7
    Ratcatcher100
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 14 ✭Ratcatcher100


    Dogs are a craze at the moment and like one of the posters said above me their will be loads of dumpings and surrenders to rescues when work commences again. A lot of new owners really dont know how to have dogs and work. The dogs will suffer no walks tossed outside and eventually nipping the kids in frustration hold your money your dog will come to you as you seem genuine & you wont be paying a fortune also put your name with a few rescues explain your needs and say you are willing to wait. 250 to have a dog from a rescue its not rocket science.


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    #8
    Knine
    Registered Users Posts: 3,761 ✭✭✭Knine


    Tush155 wrote: »
    Apologies, I did not mean to cause any offence.
    I have contacted kennel club, no response, pedigreedogs. Any others I could try? Puppy is only for family pet, will not be showing or breeding.

    No offence taken. I am just trying to show you the reality of dog breeding done the right way. It is not being greedy expecting the costs to be met or having a little left over to justify your hard work.

    Whether the dog is a top quality show prospect or a family pet, they cost the same to produce! Did you contact the actual breed Club? When the shows start up again, it might be worth bringing your child to meet lots of different breeds. I know myself what it is like as I have a child with a significant disability.


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    #9
    Dilbert75
    Registered Users Posts: 4,724 ✭✭✭Dilbert75


    Tush155 wrote: »
    Thank you for your reply. We paid €400 from a breeder, now I understand that this was 11 years ago but an increase of €600 by reputable breeders? That’s some hike!
    I have tried to explain but he then gets upset about our old dog. He loved her, to be honest she was brilliant with him - maybe it was just her individual temperament.
    We are willing to wait another 10 months but our house definitely doesn’t feel like a home without

    You touched on a very important point. Breed is important, because general characteristics like size, exercise needs, health conditions, etc matter, but personality is far more important. My cocker wouldn't be a good assistance dog, because she's too neurotic and anxious, but my partner has one that would be amazing.


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    #10
    Tush155
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭Tush155


    From looking over the past months I’ve definitely learned that cockers definitely have individual personalities rather than one specific to the breed.
    Thank you all for your replies. I’m just so annoyed that we had thought by getting through where we thought we’d also have that link to her....


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    #11
    zerosugarbuzz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭zerosugarbuzz


    Tush155 wrote: »
    We thought we had finally found a cocker spaniel puppy (our 11 year old cocker went over the rainbow bridge in April) contacted person we originally got her from and by chance they had a cocker due a litter, big chat about the extortionate prices being charged (even mentioned their relative was considering paying 1000 for a puppy a few months earlier which they found ridiculous) and they definitely wouldn’t be doing that. Contacted again a few weeks after birth, poor baby had lost some of the litter and they would be in contact again once a little older with pictures. Again asked for price, they’d discuss and come back, they did Thursday €1750!!!
    Our son (who has ASD) believes our new dog must be similar to our last so we do not have the option of any puppy. I’m so annoyed, this person had our hopes up for nothing! Is there anyone out there who isn’t in it solely for the money???!!!

    We have a 9 year old cocker that we paid €300 for. The new name for breeders is greeders lol. I know a few people who have bought pups for anything from €1400 to €2200 over the past year. The more disturbing thing for me is most of them are planning to breed from the dogs to make their money back. I do think that when people go back to work, hopefully soon, there will be a glut of dogs on the market and in rescues. Not good for the dogs obviously but hopefully will put a stop to this price madness. Your situation is extra sad having a little boy with special needs, I hope you get a dog soon for the right price.


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    #12
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I think its the price hikes that have happened since the pandemic started that are a bit much to take.

    I fully understand a breeder charging the full costs plus a bit for their own profit and would have no problem with that.

    But what has made their costs nearly double in the last 11 months?

    Pups that had an asking price of €1000 this time last year are now going for double that if not more.

    Thats not a breeder just making up their costs and some profit on top. Thats a breeder maximising profit in the current market and while I am aware that there is nothing technically illegal or unethical about that, it does come across as greedy and taking advantage of people in the current situation who probably for the first time can have a pet.

    I also think these inflated prices will drive more people to turning a blind eye to puppy farms, and taking a chance on a "cheap" pup brought from an advert online somewhere.


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    #13
    Knine
    Registered Users Posts: 3,761 ✭✭✭Knine


    It is very unethical to charge those crazy prices for pet dogs. Almost all having no breed specific health testing done. People paying this money are a big part of the problem!

    Breeding quality dogs is far more than putting two convenient dogs of the same breed together. I agree there will be a huge dog welfare situation in this country when things go back to normal.


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    #14
    tk123
    Registered Users Posts: 14,020 ✭✭✭✭tk123


    Tush155 wrote: »
    Apologies, I did not mean to cause any offence.
    I have contacted kennel club, no response, pedigreedogs. Any others I could try? Puppy is only for family pet, will not be showing or breeding.

    Contact the breed club - by phone - not by email/message. Contrary to popular belief the breed club cap the prices of their pups, the parents are fully health tested and you have the support of the breeder. Even at that prepare for something to go wrong and to have a wait. If this next pup I'm waiting on a list for works out I'll have been waiting a year. We won't be able to breed from the dog (i wouldn't be breeding anyways) and have the pups IKC reg unless all relevant health testing is done.. So if you're buying a pup who's not going to be registered "because its just a pet" - think of why the breeder wouldn't be registering for the sake of 20 quid - eg there's a block, they're not health tested, they're breeding litter after litter, they're charging crazy prices etc etc


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    #15
    Cherry Blossom
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 6,928 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cherry Blossom


    Surely this ‘just a pet’ is to become a member of your family? Even if it will be just a pet to you, it certainly sounds like it will be a whole lot more than that to your son? You need a well bred dog with a steady temperament and low risk of the dog having health issues. Please go through the proper channels and explain your needs to any potential breeder. A good breeder will rarely offer a choice of pup but will match each pup to its new owner themselves. Also be aware that puppies will nip and require training etc. They will not become a steady dog until they reach adulthood after about two years of growing up and learning the ropes. If a finished product is what you require it may be worth asking for an older dog maybe one that was kept by a breeder for showing but doesn’t enjoy it or didn’t work out for some other reason. Going to a reputable rescue is also an option but in the current situation few dogs are being surrendered and there is tough competition for those that are. Either way you are going to have to be patient and willing to wait.


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    #16
    Ratcatcher100
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 14 ✭Ratcatcher100


    I own a bernese mountain dog she is a therapy dog now and her temperament is unreal. Kind gentle and very tuned into brain damaged people and the elderly . She was a discarded dog who grew too much from being a very cute puppy . She cost 1500 from a breeder 11 years ago. I was asked to get rid of her for her owner. She only cost me the neglected veterinary treatment she needed from years of neglect and grooming. A great dog always finds good people you are a genuine case for a nice dog be patient.


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    #17
    cocker5
    Registered Users Posts: 3,274 ✭✭✭cocker5


    I had an amazing cocker (black) for 14 years with the most beautiful temperament, he was a fabulous dog! We miss him everyday!

    I know 3/4 blonde / red cockers, while lovely dogs overall they are short tempered and wouldn’t recommend for children or a child with disabilities.. bearing in mind puppies will nip, jump up , knock over .. that’s just me..

    Also not sure why but all blonde cockers I know have resource guarding issues .. my cocker didn’t .. no 2 dogs are the same and even if u get a dog that looks the exact same as your old dog.. personalities could be completely different.. which could upset your son even further ..

    Personally I’d move forward and try and help your son move over to considering other dogs / Breeds.... best of luck


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    #18
    Tush155
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭Tush155


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I think its the price hikes that have happened since the pandemic started that are a bit much to take.

    I fully understand a breeder charging the full costs plus a bit for their own profit and would have no problem with that.

    But what has made their costs nearly double in the last 11 months?

    Pups that had an asking price of €1000 this time last year are now going for double that if not more.

    Thats not a breeder just making up their costs and some profit on top. Thats a breeder maximising profit in the current market and while I am aware that there is nothing technically illegal or unethical about that, it does come across as greedy and taking advantage of people in the current situation who probably for the first time can have a pet.

    I also think these inflated prices will drive more people to turning a blind eye to puppy farms, and taking a chance on a "cheap" pup brought from an advert online somewhere.

    This is true the ones charging 1750 plus are helping puppy farms get people who don’t do checks. I hope they all make their tax returns!!!
    I really hope to find one through recommendation and not solely through ads! I do know some breeders are refusing to breed until the situation calms down and they are definitely the people I would like to get my pup from.


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    #19
    Tush155
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭Tush155


    cocker5 wrote: »
    I had an amazing cocker (black) for 14 years with the most beautiful temperament, he was a fabulous dog! We miss him everyday!

    I know 3/4 blonde / red cockers, while lovely dogs overall they are short tempered and wouldn’t recommend for children or a child with disabilities.. bearing in mind puppies will nip, jump up , knock over .. that’s just me..

    Also not sure why but all blonde cockers I know have resource guarding issues .. my cocker didn’t .. no 2 dogs are the same and even if u get a dog that looks the exact same as your old dog.. personalities could be completely different.. which could upset your son even further ..

    Personally I’d move forward and try and help your son move over to considering other dogs / Breeds.... best of luck

    Yes have had a few conversations over the past few days and I think I will have to bring him when collecting while showing pictures beforehand etc
    Our baby was a black roan cocker


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    #20
    The DayDream
    Registered Users Posts: 508 ✭✭✭The DayDream


    The two things that have gone up in price most are dogs and drugs... And of the people selling the two products the drug dealers are actually the ones who are less scammy and scummy.

    They totally saw you coming a mile away.. Oh, we just happened to have a cocker litter (what a coincidence, my hole), oh we lost some of the litter (more nonsense designed to create a feeling of scarcity so you will pay morr and make you feel so guilty you dont question the extortion). These are the oldest lines in the backyard breeder handbook.

    Just take your son to look at some dogs wherever you can get to and let him fall in love with another one. When I worked in a shelter I never had kids come in and say, 'No, I'll pass on getting a dog today Mom, since this one doesn't match the old one.' They always found a dog they wanted and the only time they didnt leave with one is if the parents and/or ourselves decided it wasn't the best match.

    I'm biased cuz I have one but the shelters are full of collies and they are very sweet and loyal and make great companions for boys. Also you can find plenty of young dogs that aren't small pups they will need a little less training, and will cost you probably 100 quid with the dog already vaccinated. I'm not saying you have to go to a shelter but being locked into 'it has to be a tiny pup and it has to be this certain breed' are the 2 biggest obstacles I saw owners unnecessarily put in their search ALL the time, causing them to overlook piles of dogs I knew would make amazing companions, but ended up being put to sleep because they didn't tick a box in someone's head.


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    #21
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    cocker5 wrote: »
    I had an amazing cocker (black) for 14 years with the most beautiful temperament, he was a fabulous dog! We miss him everyday!

    I know 3/4 blonde / red cockers, while lovely dogs overall they are short tempered and wouldn’t recommend for children or a child with disabilities.. bearing in mind puppies will nip, jump up , knock over .. that’s just me..

    Also not sure why but all blonde cockers I know have resource guarding issues .. my cocker didn’t .. no 2 dogs are the same and even if u get a dog that looks the exact same as your old dog.. personalities could be completely different.. which could upset your son even further ..

    Personally I’d move forward and try and help your son move over to considering other dogs / Breeds.... best of luck

    Strange, I would have said exactly the same of my golden cocker! I have never met a dog with such a sweet, gentle temperament. In all her 14 years I never once saw any sign of aggression or guarding in her, ever, and whatsmore, she was a rescue.

    You just never can tell how they'll turn out, until you live with a dog for a while. This is why fostering is such a great thing. I'll probably never be lucky enough to find another as sweet as her... :'(


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    #22
    VonVix
    Registered Users Posts: 1,688 ✭✭✭VonVix


    cocker5 wrote: »
    Also not sure why but all blonde cockers I know have resource guarding issues .. my cocker didn’t

    I'm going to totally pull this out of the sky, it's purely anecdotal... But I think the reason why we see more issues in blonde Cockers is that they're more likely to come from puppy farms/backyard breeders, so attention to the temperament/health of the dog they are breeding isn't paid attention to.

    Black is a less desirable colour to breed, so black Cockers are more likely to come from reputable or "better" breeders, who aren't focused on colour, but more so on health and temperament.

    Also most of the black Cockers I've met have been from working lines, and have had the most lovely temperament.

    Again, this is purely anecdotal, but just my observation.

    [Dog Training + Behaviour Nerd]



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    #23
    Gael23
    Registered Users Posts: 12,086 ✭✭✭✭Gael23


    We paid €450 in 2018 having paid 150 pounds previously in 2000 I thought that was reasonable


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    #24
    Tush155
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭Tush155


    VonVix wrote: »
    I'm going to totally pull this out of the sky, it's purely anecdotal... But I think the reason why we see more issues in blonde Cockers is that they're more likely to come from puppy farms/backyard breeders, so attention to the temperament/health of the dog they are breeding isn't paid attention to.

    Black is a less desirable colour to breed, so black Cockers are more likely to come from reputable or "better" breeders, who aren't focused on colour, but more so on health and temperament.

    Also most of the black Cockers I've met have been from working lines, and have had the most lovely temperament.

    Again, this is purely anecdotal, but just my observation.

    Would love black roan again.
    I had heard that golden haven’t the best temperament but I’ve met some lovely ones!


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    #25
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I would love a solid black or roan cocker next time, simply because it would break my heart to have another golden.

    I hope the right dog finds you.


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