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Trainee accountant salary

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24

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    #32
    Alan_007_
    Registered Users Posts: 354 ✭✭Alan_007_


    myshirt wrote: »
    It is exploitative, I agree.

    I hear you on the college item as well. That's the model we have in Chartered Accountancy however, and I'd urge trainees to think strategically. Look at it as a training allowance. Not a salary. Look at it as a time to learn, and a time to earn. I was a solicitor before I became an accountant, so trust me I really felt the kick in the stones.

    College shows you have a basic level of technical competence that employers can work with; but you've a lot to learn still before you will be adding any value. This isn't the public service. You have to earn your stripes and show you can take that college degree and make it work for the business you are in.

    Quality of graduates vary also. For example it is much easier to get a 2.1 in NUIG than it is in UL, thus the UL graduates are generally of better stock. UCD and Trinity graduates are of an even better stock mostly, but of course it's a mixed bag.The important thing is you are hungry.

    With the college thing, I don't understand why it takes so long to become qualified after college. Why is there a need to go to college for 4 years before attempting to become a qualified chartered accountant, when, if you don't do an accountancy related degree at all, it still takes the same 3.5 years. So why the need for the degree at all? Or why not increase the intensity of college so that you're actually qualified at the end of it?

    When you say that you have a long way to go before adding any value, I don't necessarily agree with this. How does one not add any value, if, their work is being billed at a multiple of what their pay is, and they come in at or below budget. Especially if there isn't much manager review work needed. Surely that is value adding, no?

    Out of curiosity, where would you rank UCC in this list?


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    #33
    Fungums
    Registered Users Posts: 122 ✭✭Fungums


    Thanks for all your replies!

    I’m just after starting a job in a practice and I have to sign my contract next week but having second thoughts. Salary is €16500 which I knew going in but have just been informed that there’s no paid study leave (can take unpaid time off). They also don’t think I need any courses for the fundamentals (have 7 exemptions already so only two F papers to do).


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    #34
    AppleBottle
    Registered Users Posts: 1,421 ✭✭✭AppleBottle


    I started on €18k in a Dublin based firm and had a study package.

    Can you negotiate the study package with them? There are resources out there to self study of course but if you would rather do a course might be an idea to see if you can discuss.
    Honestly, I’ve never heard of a firm who didn’t offer some kind of study package. But these would have been all trainees in Dublin based firms. I would not have thought it was different elsewhere.


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    #35
    TitianGerm
    Registered Users Posts: 27,827 ✭✭✭✭TitianGerm


    Fungums wrote: »
    Thanks for all your replies!

    I’m just after starting a job in a practice and I have to sign my contract next week but having second thoughts. Salary is €16500 which I knew going in but have just been informed that there’s no paid study leave (can take unpaid time off). They also don’t think I need any courses for the fundamentals (have 7 exemptions already so only two F papers to do).

    Just €9.16 an hour based off a 37.5 hour week and a 48 week working year (52 weeks less 20 days holidays). It's €8.64 an hour if you take that holidays are paid leave.


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    #36
    Alan_007_
    Registered Users Posts: 354 ✭✭Alan_007_


    I wonder how legal it is to be paid below minimum wage when the employer won't pay for courses or study leave?


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    #37
    TitianGerm
    Registered Users Posts: 27,827 ✭✭✭✭TitianGerm


    Alan_007_ wrote: »
    I wonder how legal it is to be paid below minimum wage when the employer won't pay for courses or study leave?

    That was my thought and why I highlighted the rate per hour.


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    #38
    capefear
    Registered Users Posts: 772 ✭✭✭capefear


    http://www.moneyguideireland.com/minimum-wage-ireland-2017.html

    Would it be your first job, if so the above rates might apply


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    #39
    fishy_fishy
    Registered Users Posts: 452 ✭✭fishy_fishy


    Sorry but that's a completely insulting package. You can't live off that. Renegotiate the salary or don't take it, but you're worth more than that


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    #40
    ACADasltiv
    Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭ACADasltiv


    Have you talked to any recruiters about trainee roles to see if they have anything suitable? I knew someone looking in Dublin recently and they had the arm bitten off them

    I know you're not in Dublin, but even still that package is terrible. The standard study leave for ACCA in practice is 1 week per exam plus the exam day.


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    #41
    heretothere
    Registered Users Posts: 616 ✭✭✭heretothere


    That is an awful offer. If they offered that salary + full study package I'd be saying take it you'll manage the money. You need study leave and college. Are they paying for the actual exams?


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    #42
    Fungums
    Registered Users Posts: 122 ✭✭Fungums


    Sorry if I wasn’t clear, he didn’t say no to me doing courses for the exams just that he “didn’t think I’d need them” was more passive than a down right no but he made sure the point came across.

    Yes they are paying for the exams and the books.

    I think I do need to re-evaluate alright. It’s a lovely atmosphere and I’m happy going into work each day but the pay/training is a big problem.


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    #43
    scheister
    Registered Users Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭scheister


    currently Top 4 to BDO/GT are paying 24,500/25,500 starting off in Dublin others try to benchmark off this.

    A firm I know in city centre were hiring on 18k in 2015 for trainee roles. You will always get the firm that will try to get away with a little pay as possible. in 2013 when went looking myself a firm in limerick was paying 16k.


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    #44
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,128 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Is there still the option to go into an office and train direct from school?

    My brother did that in the 80s, was paid 40 euro a week for 12 hour days, but it paid off in the end as he flew through the exams, went to London, was headhunted a few times, taken to New York and within about 15 years of qualifying was on seven figures (not counting bonuses) in New York with one of the Big 4. He still misses the biscuit tins full of receipts and invoices.


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    #45
    ACADasltiv
    Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭ACADasltiv


    There is still a school leaver option, however considering the vast majority or new trainees are coming from college I'd say it could be hard to find a firm to take someone straight out of the leaving cert. Unless of course you know a partner in the firm then of course your chances are much higher. One of the Partners in my current firm did exactly that.


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    #46
    fishy_fishy
    Registered Users Posts: 452 ✭✭fishy_fishy


    One person in my intake is on the school leaver track. Very difficult to get, and you'd need to be exceptional to begin with... which raises the q of why not go to college?


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    #47
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,128 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    fishy_fishy wrote: »
    One person in my intake is on the school leaver track. Very difficult to get, and you'd need to be exceptional to begin with... which raises the q of why not go to college?

    In his case it was the fact he was the third child in an era where college fees had to be paid. Our parents couldn't afford a third set of fees, they could barely manage the second. Born at the wrong time I suppose. He was much brighter and harder working than either of us before him.


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    #48
    fishy_fishy
    Registered Users Posts: 452 ✭✭fishy_fishy


    spurious wrote: »
    fishy_fishy wrote: »
    One person in my intake is on the school leaver track. Very difficult to get, and you'd need to be exceptional to begin with... which raises the q of why not go to college?

    In his case it was the fact he was the third child in an era where college fees had to be paid. Our parents couldn't afford a third set of fees, they could barely manage the second. Born at the wrong time I suppose. He was much brighter and harder working than either of us before him.

    Yeah, but that's kinda the point I'm making. College is affordable now. Not free, but why wouldn't someone who's really exceptional go in this day and age? So while technically that route does exist, it basically doesn't really.


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    #49
    Alan_007_
    Registered Users Posts: 354 ✭✭Alan_007_


    fishy_fishy wrote: »
    Yeah, but that's kinda the point I'm making. College is affordable now. Not free, but why wouldn't someone who's really exceptional go in this day and age? So while technically that route does exist, it basically doesn't really.

    Well if you know that you want to be an accountant when you leave school, why wouldn't you try to start straight into ACCA and be qualified by the time you're 21 (or possibly even 20) instead of going to college and becoming qualified by the time you're 25?


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    #50
    TitianGerm
    Registered Users Posts: 27,827 ✭✭✭✭TitianGerm


    Alan_007_ wrote: »
    Well if you know that you want to be an accountant when you leave school, why wouldn't you try to start straight into ACCA and be qualified by the time you're 21 (or possibly even 20) instead of going to college and becoming qualified by the time you're 25?

    Do you not need five years experience if you don't have a degree? Four if you're an Accounting Technician and 3.5 years if you hold a degree?


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    #51
    fishy_fishy
    Registered Users Posts: 452 ✭✭fishy_fishy


    TitianGerm wrote: »
    Alan_007_ wrote: »
    Well if you know that you want to be an accountant when you leave school, why wouldn't you try to start straight into ACCA and be qualified by the time you're 21 (or possibly even 20) instead of going to college and becoming qualified by the time you're 25?

    Do you not need five years experience if you don't have a degree? Four if you're an Accounting Technician and 3.5 years if you hold a degree?
    Think the chartered route takes 5 years for school leavers. So, 5 years and chartered or 6.5 years (with the fun of being FT student for 3) and chartered with a degree. Plus, it's well and good saying start straight out of school, but you'll have to find an employer who will hire you straight out of school.

    For the benefit of a better education, opportunity to travel (J1 etc), maturity entering the workplace, ease of finding employment, plus the flexibility that comes with a degree vs leaving cert, most people will find the extra 18 months worth it.


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    #52
    Alan_007_
    Registered Users Posts: 354 ✭✭Alan_007_


    fishy_fishy wrote: »
    Think the chartered route takes 5 years for school leavers. So, 5 years and chartered or 6.5 years (with the fun of being FT student for 3) and chartered with a degree. Plus, it's well and good saying start straight out of school, but you'll have to find an employer who will hire you straight out of school.

    For the benefit of a better education, opportunity to travel (J1 etc), maturity entering the workplace, ease of finding employment, plus the flexibility that comes with a degree vs leaving cert, most people will find the extra 18 months worth it.

    Don't know of many Accounting degrees that are 3 years anymore, so realistically you're looking at 7.5 years for chartered and degree, or 7 years for ACCA and degree.

    Where as, you can do your leaving cert and go straight into ACCA, where all going well you'll be qualified after 3 years.

    Well yes, you would need to find an employer. Or, you could work away yourself (or in a course) and complete some ACCA exams in your own time before looking for a job.

    I don't necessarily agree that college gives you a "better" education, since, college is a level 8 and the professional qualification is a level 9.

    There is also the benefit that by the time you're qualified you're on good money at 21, instead of slaving away for €16k like the op at a (presumably) older age.

    College is also expensive. €3k for fees, another €3k - good knows what for accommodation (if applicable) a lot of people don't have the opportunity to travel during college, since they're busy bursting their holes trying to save money to pay for the following year of college.

    And the difference in time is not 1.5 years, it's closer to 4.

    If money isn't much of an issue to you, then by all means, college might be the better option. But if I had my time again I think I'd be trying to get into accountancy straight from school.


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    #53
    Alan_007_
    Registered Users Posts: 354 ✭✭Alan_007_


    TitianGerm wrote: »
    Do you not need five years experience if you don't have a degree? Four if you're an Accounting Technician and 3.5 years if you hold a degree?

    You do for ACA.

    As far as I know it's all the same 3 years for everyone for ACCA.

    I'm open to correction though.


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    #54
    Lyra Fangs
    Registered Users Posts: 630 ✭✭✭Lyra Fangs


    I qualified last year so if anyone has any questions about salary etc let me know!


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    #55
    OttoPilot
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭OttoPilot


    I'm starting into my final year soon. Don't accept anything less than €20k in your first year with exams paid for, ideally more but 20 would be the minimum I'd expect from a small firm in Dublin, especially if you have a 2:1 or 1:1 as you have loads of options.

    It's a seller's market at the moment in the labour market, especially with accounting. I feel like it's getting a bit less popular out of college the further we get from the recession. I think most assurance departments in my firm (big 4) would have taken on more last year if they could, but not enough passed the CV screening and interview. You can tell because a lot of big firms are reopening applications after milkround and some even recruiting year round.

    Good luck


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    #56
    haro124
    Closed Accounts Posts: 684 ✭✭✭haro124


    Its 100% the applicants market- my department in the big 4 (before I left) had to reopen application sin August 2017 for a September 2017 start.


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    #57
    souvikroy1111
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭souvikroy1111


    Salary including benefits for 2018 Trainee Role-
    All Big 4 except Deloitte- €24,000
    Deloitte- €26,000 (They revised it a couple of weeks back from 24k)
    GT- €23,000
    BDO- €24,750

    The pay gets lower outside these Big6 firms.


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    #58
    Timdar527
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭Timdar527


    souvikroy1111 wrote: »
    Salary including benefits for 2018 Trainee Role-
    All Big 4 except Deloitte- €24,000
    Deloitte- €26,000 (They revised it a couple of weeks back from 24k)
    GT- €23,000
    BDO- €24,750

    The pay gets lower outside these Big6 firms.

    That’s wrong anyway, PwC is 26,000


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    #59
    sonyvision
    Registered Users Posts: 560 ✭✭✭sonyvision


    Started in a small practice at 22 after 3 years in college. Starting was 18,500 down the south east in 2013, worked paid exams it was a good stepping stone. Moved to Dublin 2015 started my profossional level exams pay jump to 28k at 25. Stayed there for two years with 2 exams to go was then on 35k. Joined a new roll up to then 36k however I had addictional benefits plus 5-8k depending on bonuses etc. (All employeers paid my exams) my second employer gave 350 for each F level passed, and 700 for P level passes. Week off for each subject...

    Qaulified last year with a nice hefty payrise more then I would expect.

    I done ACCA with accountancy school in Dublin, any other advice I can help with drop me a PM.


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    #60
    Humour Me
    Registered Users Posts: 360 ✭✭Humour Me


    If you look at the training firm guidance document on the chartered website, there is a minimum salary increase recommended for passing each set of exams. Firms aren’t tied to this but generally this is the minimum increase you would receive. Your own performance in your job would also impact your increase.


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    #61
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,026 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Alan_007_ wrote: »
    At the moment I could walk across the road to McDonald's and get paid more per hour!

    You are also more likely to be productive and add value in McDonalds, than you are in your first and even second year as a trainee.


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