DAB in Ireland: RTE multiplex closed

byrnefm · 05-06-2005 2:09pm

Traveled up to SW Donegal for the weekend and took my LaGIO R105 radio with me on the bus to see what the reception was like in the North this time. I did the same during the May Day holiday weekend and had really only about five minutes continuous reception between Cavan and Pettigo - and about a minute continuous after I left Pettigo. This time, however, the reception was drastically improved - while I couldn't get reception before the North, I was getting two to three '>' of a signal after the McDonald's on the Cavan bypass, before losing the signal (BBC, that is) and picking up about one to two '>' for the next 15 minutes in the North. After that, apart from some brief outtages, I had continuous BBC reception throughout! Granted, I had to keep the radio at window level but other than that, it was fine. I think the route the bus takes is via Omagh.

I did notice that while the BBC DAB signal has improved from zilch to quite decent in the last two months, the Score signal has not. The bus got stuck outside the Kesh PSNI station for about 18 minutes, waiting for five pipe bands to pass by (practicing for the Orange Day parades?), and I was able to listen to the BBC DAB multipex. No Score signal there, whatsover, as was the case in other areas. I wonder do they have any intention on improving their coverage?

As a final test, I tried to get a signal from Kilcar, SW Donegal. Nada, but I really wasn't expecting any anyway from my portable radio. I'd really like to try from the top of Slieve League but don't think that's going to happen any time soon :rolleyes:

lawhec · 06-06-2005 12:16am

I think the route the bus takes is via Omagh.

If it goes via Cavan to Pettigo I'd say it's more likely to pass through Enniskillen.

I did notice that while the BBC DAB signal has improved from zilch to quite decent in the last two months...

The switch on of a new transmitter at Brougher Mountain will definitely help matters there.

...the Score signal has not

Conversly the Score Network hasn't had any changes.

I did notice that while the BBC DAB signal has improved from zilch to quite decent in the last two months, the Score signal has not. The bus got stuck outside the Kesh PSNI station for about 18 minutes, waiting for five pipe bands to pass by (practicing for the Orange Day parades?), and I was able to listen to the BBC DAB multipex. No Score signal there, whatsover, as was the case in other areas. I wonder do they have any intention on improving their coverage?

The BBC Multiplex from Brougher in most cases seems to be a lot stronger than Score's. No knowledge of wherever Score plans to improve coverage. I find it surprising that no reception of Score could be got in Kesh considering that they are basically on the same site and that analogue TV and FM radio from Brougher can be easily got there, though there is a TV relay in nearby Ederney. Score's coverage certainly seems suspect, even though they should in theroy have most of the West of Northern Ireland well covered with two 5kW transmitters at Brougher and Strabane.

byrnefm · 07-06-2005 7:47am

Northern Correspondent wrote:

If it goes via Cavan to Pettigo I'd say it's more likely to pass through Enniskillen.

You're spot on - my mind went blank when writing the last update.

I find it surprising that no reception of Score could be got in Kesh considering that they are basically on the same site and that analogue TV and FM radio from Brougher can be easily got there, though there is a TV relay in nearby Ederney. Score's coverage certainly seems suspect, even though they should in theory have most of the West of Northern Ireland well covered with two 5kW transmitters at Brougher and Strabane.

I can't explain it either - in most places where I got the BBC DAB multiplex, I got Score's but not in all.

I did another test on the way back from Donegal - it seems I was a bit over-enthusiastic about the reception in areas, well, at least between Kesh and Enniskillen - the reception between these two towns is too poor to listen to on my portable. One thing I also noticed that I lost reception in nearly every town I went through (Kesh being a notable exception).

byte · 07-06-2005 7:47pm

byrnefm wrote:

As a final test, I tried to get a signal from Kilcar, SW Donegal. Nada, but I really wasn't expecting any anyway from my portable radio. I'd really like to try from the top of Slieve League but don't think that's going to happen any time soon :rolleyes:

Heh, that was asking a lot!

As it stands, Kilcar gets its TV channels from a deflector up the side of a hill, same for Carrick, Glencolmcille, etc.

I did attempt to climb Sl League one day, but it was day after a wedding, and I was too ill to make it!

But it would sure be worth a try testing for DAB!

I wonder if they've invented handheld DVB-t TV's yet?

lawhec · 21-07-2005 12:29am

I wonder if they've invented handheld DVB-t TV's yet?

They do exist but they ain't mass market yet.

Back to topic, the BBC switched on their DAB transmitter on Sherrif's Mountain in Derry early last week. ERP is reported to be 6.2kW, which is a bit stronger than Score's power (5kW) but then again the BBC aren't making use of the Strabane mast like Score are.

redzer007 · 08-08-2005 11:39am

As listed before by DMC, looking north from this area signal is possible, although I will have to invest in an antennae to ensure constant reasonalbe signal strenth. Onyl the BBC mux on a Pure Evoke 1xt.

If I can get DAB signal, will I also be able to pick up freeview??

thanks

R

DMC · 10-08-2005 12:46pm

Very likely with suitable antennas, redzer. If DAB can come throught from Divis on that low of power, then it should be possible for Freeview (barring co-channel interference)

lawhec · 10-08-2005 2:18pm

Muxs 1 & 2 from Divis would be very difficult to receive with co-channel interference from Three Rock. Muxs A & B would also be tricky with potential co-channel from Mt.Leinster. Only Muxs C & D would there be a decent chance I'd say.

10-08-2005 2:23pm

I'd be surprised tbh if anything on UHF from Mt Leinster made it across the terrain between there and Dalkey.

lawhec · 16-08-2005 4:52am

Earthman wrote:

I'd be surprised tbh if anything on UHF from Mt Leinster made it across the terrain between there and Dalkey.

As I say in these situations Earthman, you'd almost certainly know better than I would with local knowledge!

DMC · 30-09-2005 5:35pm

BBC brings DAB to North and West Wales.

BBC Press Release:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2005/09_september/30/dab.shtml
More than a million new listeners to come into BBC digital radio coverage

The BBC is to expand its UK digital radio network with nine new transmitters in England and Wales within the next year.

The latest phase of the BBC's digital radio expansion plan will bring around 1.2 million people into national DAB coverage in Wales, Cornwall, Cumbria, Norfolk, Kent and Humberside.

The transmitters will be switched on in the following places:
Region  	Transmitter  	New listeners	Towns covered

West Wales  	Blaenplwyf 	34,000 		Aberystwyth
South Wales 	Presely 	114,000 	Haverfordwest, Cardigan, Pembroke
North Wales  	Llandonna  	110,500 	Bangor, Llandudno and parts of Caernarfon and Conwy
		
Cumbria 	Penrith  	32,500  	Penrith
Cumbria 	Kendal  	42,000 		Kendal 	
Humberside 	High Hunsley  	440,000 	Kingston upon Hull, Grimsby
	
Norfolk 	Great Massingham  114,500 	Kings Lynn, Swaffham and Fakenham
	
Kent 		Chartham 	53,000 		Canterbury

Cornwall 	Redruth  	250,000 	Redruth, Truro, Penzance and parts of Newquay
The exact date of the launch is subject to local authority planning applications and good weather windows.

Digital radio listeners will be able to tune in to the BBC's portfolio of digital-only stations – 1Xtra, Five Live Sports Extra, 6 Music, BBC 7 and the Asian Network – as well as the BBC's existing national radio stations – Radio 1, Radio 2, Radio 3, Radio 4, Radio Five Live and the World Service – and enjoy the benefits of digital audio broadcasting (DAB) with more choice and improved sound quality.

These networks join BBC local and regional services, which are already available on DAB in some parts of the country.

"The BBC has been committed to DAB digital radio since its launch and we are delighted to announce our plans to expand coverage further," said Simon Nelson, Controller of BBC Radio & Music Interactive.

"We hope listeners in these areas will now discover the benefits and additional choice that digital radio offers."

Listeners will need a DAB digital radio to receive the BBC's digital radio broadcasts.

Existing digital radio listeners in the area should carry out an 'autotune' to scan and store the newly available BBC services in their radio set's station list.

For advice on receiving BBC digital radio and to check coverage listeners can ring 08700 100123 or go to bbc.co.uk/digitalradio.

Notes to Editors

The BBC has five digital-only radio networks, all launched in 2002: 1Xtra – the best in new black music; Five Live Sports Extra – the home of live sport with exclusive coverage of live events; 6 Music – the best of contemporary and classic rock and pop; BBC 7 - the best of BBC comedy, drama and books from the archive; the Asian Network – news and music from the British Asian scene.

Listeners can also receive Radios 1 to Five Live on DAB, along with more than 30 of the BBC's English local radio and national stations

The BBC's national DAB coverage currently stands at around 85% of the UK population

More than 1.5 million adults are listening to the BBC's new digital-only stations each week (RAJAR)

There are now more than 1.8 million DAB sets in the UK (GFK, July 2005)

Digital radio offers robust reception and does not suffer from the interference and fading that can happen with AM and FM radio

Digital radio is a more efficient means of broadcasting. More networks can be transmitted, offering more choice for listeners

Digital radio can transmit text and data with the audio signal. A small screen on digital radios carries rolling text telling listeners what music they're listening to, who's being interviewed, and giving phone numbers and email and website addresses

Digital radios are available from more than 6,500 retail outlets across the UK (both large high street chains and small independent retailers) and can also be bought on the internet

DAB digital radios are available from £49.99

Digital radio can also be received via digital television (satellite, cable and Freeview) and the Internet (more than 16 million hours of BBC radio is listened to online each month - live and 'on demand').

lawhec · 03-10-2005 9:23pm

The ERP's of the new DAB transmitters recently set up by the BBC in NI have been confirmed...

Brougher Mountain - 3.2kW
Limavady - 6.3kW
L/Derry - 6.2kW

Divis remains at 10kW. Interesting figure for Limavady - their BBC FM transmitters are 3.4kW ERMP!

As for the BBC's announcement of their expansion of DAB across the south-west of England and in the coastal areas of Wales, with RTÉ no longer using channel J for TV it was only a case of economics and coverage really for the BBC to consider to expand their coverage in these places. The Digital 1 multiplex is also to expand with transmitters at Preseli, Arfon and Llandonna, although I suspect reception in SE Ireland might be more tricky with RTÉ Two from Mt.Leinster a likely cause of co-channel interference. For those not in the know, Digital 1 use DAB channel 11D in England and Wales and 12A in Scotland.

maxpower · 19-10-2005 6:16pm

Does any one know if you can or has anyone tried to get DAB recepition in cork or kerry?? I'm thinkin of getting a dab radio!!! Any sugestions???
Looking at this! http://www.shopireland.ie/electronics/detail/B0001M1THK/Pure-Digital-Tempus-DAB-Radio/

Foggy43 · 19-10-2005 8:29pm

I have just read through here and you seem to be covering receiving DAB from Northern Ireland.

I was curious if there would be a service available in the south. I read this document.

http://www.comreg.ie/_fileupload/publications/ComReg0493.pdf

The way I interpret this document is there will not be a DAB radio service like there is in the UK. Here in the UK we can purchase DAB receivers but it looks like that will not happen in Ireland. DAB Radio will be carried by other means. DVB-T for example. Making it cheaper for the consumer! I do admit a freeview box is cheaper than DAB radio!

What is your opinion on my interpretation?

DMC · 19-10-2005 9:14pm

Kerry, sorry, nada, not a chance

That is correct, Molly, in so far as Comreg seem to prefer DVB-t for Digital Radio transmission. BUT a) they will be going against what prevalent in the rest of Europe and b) what manufacturer is going to build radio style receivers for such a small market?? (I think we discussed this a few pages back)

Of course DAB is very limited, in terms of the technology is superseded by other methods of compression etc. While Ireland are wise, on one hand, to wait and see, on the other hand, why oh why are we so backward when it comes to new technology? No DTT, no Digital Radio, low penetration of broadband... it really sickens me.

Foggy43 · 19-10-2005 10:05pm

DMC!
I was thinking the same. No company will continue to produce a product for such a small market. DAB radio's are very expensive and the price is not dropping. Probably because it is really starting to take off here. If there is to be a price drop it ain't going to happen before Christmas.

I mentioned this in another thread but with Northern Ireland's DAB restricted due to VHF Band 111 in the south is their room on Band 111 to carry DAB. You have 5 powerful Band 111 transmitters in the south. Where I lived in Ireland I could pick up a good signal from 3 off them. Maybe 'comreg' are a little worried there could be problems in some areas of Ireland.

One last point is we have around 50 stations available here in London. How many would you have in Ireland? You have 5 national stations. Would the Local FM stations agree to go digital? Over here there is no choice. I think it will be 2012 when all analouge will be switched off. It is going to be done in stages over 5 years and just not one big event. If I'm not mistaken, Wales goes first!

DMC · 20-10-2005 6:40pm

Not quite. Analogue TV is to be switched off in the UK by 2012, with Border and Wales being turned off first. There are currently no plans to turn off analogue radio.

Also, they have to turn off Band III television here. Just a question of when, and if our regulators/broadcasters/government bothers.

Antenna · 21-10-2005 1:31pm

In the UK there is no one purchasing DAB radios to receive station they already have on FM.

Two factors have led to the enthusiasm for DAB in the UK:

(1) heavy promotion of DAB by existing Mediumwave radio stations such as BBC Radio 5 live, talkSPORT, Virgin and local commercial AM stations which are now also on DAB. Many people unhappy with MW reception, reception bad or very variable (even with BBC Radio 5 live who have the best national MW network) across much of UK, many modern radios perform badly on MW, better audio on DAB - all leading to listeners of these stations purchasing DAB receivers.

(2) digital only services, such as the BBC's radio 6, 7

here in the Republic of Ireland if the main UK national radio and TV stations were to be available on DAB and DTT in this country for free, it would lead to huge takeup of these technologies - but the reality is this is not going to happen.

In relation to point (1) and services in this country - The AM stations issue is not much of an issue in this country. RTE only have a very limited amount of programmes on AM which are not on FM as well - and generally with satisfactory reception.

And in relation to point (2) with our much smaller population and licence fee base it is going to be relatively much more expensive for RTE to set-up digital only radio services to entice people to get DAB. The BBC meanwhile have considerable resources to do this. And the BCI, being so concerned about viability of new services, are hardly going to licence digital only commercial radio services now are they? - even if there was interest - at this point in time.

It would seem that if DAB was introduced in this country at this point in time, or if it had been introduced before now - it would be a failure with the consumer.
So I don't think we have lost anything by having a 'wait and see' approach this far.

In relation to frequency planning DAB is fine for national radio - but the multiplexing system of a number of stations onto one 1.5MHz channel will create a lot of difficulty and headaches in trying to accommodate local radio, particularly outside Dublin.
As it is DAB is seen as a legacy technology, its 10 years old. Yes it has met with success in the UK - but the fact is this success has not been repeated in other countries that also have DAB up and running. The current DAB system could end up being replaced by DRM-plus (DRM for VHF) or another system in other countries - the UK could end up being the only country using the current DAB system - a bit like TV many decades ago - the UK using 405 lines, the rest of Europe using 625 line systems with better definition - until the UK changed over to 625 too. This was the price that had to be paid for the UK having a full domestic TV service so early - has a similar price to be paid with digital radio!? we have to wait and see.

Foggy43 · 21-10-2005 4:33pm

Antenna,
I get what you are saying. In the UK the vast majority of the population is living in built up areas, unlike Ireland. MW and LW to not fare very well in built up areas. Where I am in London MW and LW are useless. I initially thought I had a problem but I tested my receiver against an aircraft's ADF VOR/DME and reception was the same. (This was on the ground and not at 40,000 feet). Radio 5 Live is a very popular station in the UK and you are right this is one of the reasons for the current sucess of DAB. One of the most frequent questions asked to DAB sales persons is 'does it have an external aerial socket?' It kinda tells you a bit about radio reception in London. I asked the same question but as I have discovered I do not need it. I had to have one for FM!

I do not understand DRM-Plus. You were saying the DAB system we have in the UK is 10 years old. How does DRM-Plus differ. I think DAB is on Band 111 and DRM on Band 11. Are there any countries using this or is it still on the drawing board?

bk · 21-10-2005 7:58pm

Molly Dawson wrote:

I do not understand DRM-Plus. You were saying the DAB system we have in the UK is 10 years old. How does DRM-Plus differ. I think DAB is on Band 111 and DRM on Band 11. Are there any countries using this or is it still on the drawing board?

DAB uses Mpeg-2 Layer 2 (or MP2) for audio compression. Most stations in the UK use 128kbps MP2. This is a very old and inefficient codec. It is about equivalent to a MP3 at about 32 - 64kbps. This is far inferior to FM with good reception and no where near CD quality.

The newer standards DVB-H, DRM and DMB all use the newer and much more efficient and better sounding (at equal bitrate) HE-AAC and AAC audio codecs from MPEG-4.

There would be no point in Ireland going for DAB for Digital radio now when the rest of the world is getting ready to go with either DVB-H or DMB for portable TV and Radio.

Nokia and Intel are big supporters of DVB-H and will likely be built into Mobiles and Laptops from next year.

Foggy43 · 27-10-2005 3:39pm

I think you are saying it doesn't matter what frequency or band is used to transmit but the system that is used! MPEG4 being the latest at most advanced.

I'm pretty sure DVB-H can carry both TV and Radio as does DTT and Sky. What I am puzzled about is how will you play back radio on DVB-H. Will there or is there an audio receiver for this or will you have to listen through your TV.

Technology is improving so fast. It is hard to know where we will all be in a few years time!

Richard · 28-10-2005 4:55pm

Molly Dawson wrote:

What I am puzzled about is how will you play back radio on DVB-H. Will there or is there an audio receiver for this or will you have to listen through your TV.

It would certainly be possible to make a receiver to playback audio from a TV platform such as DVB-H. Even today, a freeview box can be connected to a hi-fi system to allow to user to listen to Radio (or TV) stations without the use of a TV. BBC Radio is broadcast in higher quality via freeview than DAB, and some stations (such as BBC 7) are mono on DAB but stereo on Freeview.

pastor · 09-11-2005 2:45pm

After reading through this excellent thread I was wondering and hoping that DAB would be available in the clonee/Orgar areas of Dublin? I used to listen to DAB radio in the UK and really enjoyed it. It would be great to be abkle to receive it here. My Philips receiver has a DAB radio on it (if it ever arrives!)

Thanks for your consideration.

Paul

DMC · 09-11-2005 4:37pm

Clonee and Ongar are very low down, a flood plain really... So it would be slim to none. If anything height is all that is needed in Dublin, as proved. But we dont have 30 storey buildings here.

stylers · 19-12-2005 10:58pm

Well Lads,

was thinking of messing around with DAB - I have an unused band III yagi just waiting for an application. What is the handiest / cheapest DAB radio with DX potential at the minute ?. Also, somebody mentioned "Croghan Mountain" in a previous post.. Did they by any chance mean "Croghan Hill" in offaly

?. I live near it, but have never been up there to try receive anything.. anyone else try ?

Owen.

watty · 20-12-2005 8:59am

Molly Dawson wrote:

I think you are saying it doesn't matter what frequency or band is used to transmit but the system that is used! MPEG4 being the latest at most advanced.

I'm pretty sure DVB-H can carry both TV and Radio as does DTT and Sky. What I am puzzled about is how will you play back radio on DVB-H. Will there or is there an audio receiver for this or will you have to listen through your TV.

Technology is improving so fast. It is hard to know where we will all be in a few years time!

DVB-h is designed primarily for portable devices (h= handheld?).
You can get some mobile phones with it built in already and the UK does have a trial service.

Usually even Free channels on Sky or "Freeview" are subscription to the Phone operator!.

A portable audio only DVB-h is possible, but I haven't seen one. Any of the Multimedia phones can feed headphones (stereo) or Hi Fi.

DVB-h is lower bitrate so TV is not normal quality and radio may be DAB or lower quality. It depends how many servies they sqeeze into the Muxes.

Marconi · 20-12-2005 9:09am

RTÉ announced yesterday that they are to begin testing a limited DAB service from January 1st next.

See here: http://www.rte.ie/radio1/story/1073221.html

So some of you can dust off those radios stored in the attic (or maybe ask Santa for one)!:)

DMC · 20-12-2005 9:24am

\o/

I think its fair to say that I, for one, welcome this decision.

I'll copy the whole PR here.... and comment afterwards...

RTÉ Radio - 80 years on, the original "wireless" goes digital

RTÉ Radio is to launch a series of trials next year that will signal the beginning of its move into the digital age. The trials will also mark the 80th anniversary of Irish Radio.

Beginning 1 January next and for approximately three months, RTÉ will test DAB Digital Radio in an area covering Greater Dublin and the North East - selected for its high population and building density. Assuming the trial is a technical success, RTÉ Radio will then seek to apply for a full broadcast licence in this area later in 2006.

Radio's primary platform today is the familiar FM wireless broadcast which is cheap, mobile, easy to use and universally available. RTÉ remains committed to FM as a core platform while DAB is a "best fit" for the next generation of radio. DAB retains the advantages of FM, while offering immediate and tangible
improvements to the listener and the sector:

· More channels and choice - DAB offers room for existing and new services.
· Low cost receivers with auto-tuning and pause/replay facilities - no need to fiddle with tuning dials, stations appear on a menu - and you can "rewind" live radio.
· Enhanced listening experience - no interference or hiss; additional programme text etc.
· Compatibility with FM - the majority of DAB radios also receive FM; so the listener keeps their existing channels.
· More efficient use of spectrum - more stations fit on the dial.

On the 1 January 1926, the station 2RN was launched on behalf of Radio Éireann by Douglas Hyde.

Since then, RTÉ Radio has grown to offer 4 channels: RTÉ Radio 1, RTÉ Raidió na Gaeltachta, RTÉ 2fm, and RTÉ Lyric fm. These channels are broadcast over the airwaves, on satellite, cable and the web. This growth reflects the diversity of audience demand and the availability of new technologies

In early 2004, RTÉ Radio decided that it was time to step-up planning for digital radio. FM Radio has remained substantially unchanged for the past 40 years and we are now entering a period of rapid development. Our European neighbours, especially the U.K., are moving on digital radio. This challenges the entire Irish radio sector to keep pace, but also, to lay a clear path. So, it is a key element of RTÉ's strategy that successful national implementation of DAB will require the co-operation of all those involved in the sector - other broadcasters, policy makers, regulators, retailers etc.

Speaking to launch RTÉ Radio's digital tests, Adrian Moynes, Managing Director of RTÉ Radio said "There is an opportunity for the radio industry as a whole to bring the benefits of digital radio to listeners. Radio has a unique place in the lives of the nation and must adapt to retain that engagement as other platforms and services develop."

Other planned advances by RTÉ Radio in 2006 include further development of its recently started podcast programme and expansion of the already extensive variety of radio content available on www.rte.ie .

Issued by RTÉ Radio
19 December 2005

I think, its fair to say, that this is quite a bullish press release from RTÉ, its them taking the lead on this.

This is the best Christmas pressie I'm gonna get

Mossy Monk · 20-12-2005 9:47am

no idea on a nationwide launch? it just says Dublin and the north east in 2006 :mad:

SKWei · 20-12-2005 10:04am

Disappointing news from RTE really! The majority of DAB receivers, at least those in the UK, only get band III DAB, but independent stations in Ireland use band L (I think –*someone correct me if I'm wrong!) So the extra choice offered by DAB in Ireland, would likely require an increase in the licence fee… DRM would be a better choice in Ireland: All the local stations could fit on 26MHz and probably use less electricity in the process, and the BCI's "quasi-national" licence could be fully national.

But to be more practical and positive about it… Where would the transmitter site be for Dublin and NE coverage? It should be fun to experiment with!

DMC · 20-12-2005 10:18am

SKWei wrote:

Disappointing news from RTE really! The majority of DAB receivers, at least those in the UK, only get band III DAB, but independent stations in Ireland use band L (I think –*someone correct me if I'm wrong!) So the extra choice offered by DAB in Ireland, would likely require an increase in the licence fee… DRM would be a better choice in Ireland: All the local stations could fit on 26MHz and probably use less electricity in the process, and the BCI's "quasi-national" licence could be fully national.

But to be more practical and positive about it… Where would the transmitter site be for Dublin and NE coverage? It should be fun to experiment with!

Planned coverage 10 years ago was for L band, but thats long gone out the window. RTÉ are going with the UK type Band III coverage. Since no UK manufactured radio has L band (not widely available on the market), and we are such a small market, L band really wont happen. And an increase in the licence fee... pure troll-ism that.... :rolleyes:

Three Rock and Clermont Carn are the transmitters that cover both areas.

byrnefm · 20-12-2005 10:35am

Whoo-hoo! I'll finally be able to try out my DAB radio in Dublin (instead of for just 30 minute stretches when travelling through the North). Well, for three months, anyway :rolleyes: RTÉ have kept this very quiet - it's very hard to find this DAB article on their web site, if you weren't aware of it beforehand!

Now while I can understand why they're trialling DAB (the UK uses it), I wonder are they a bit late? Sweden is switching DAB off, as has Finland. And we only have two channels for use in Ireland (12A and 12C, I think). Don't get me wrong - I'm thrilled RTÉ are finally doing a digital radio trial - I'm just wondering if it's the right system to trial with at this stage. (eg. DVB-H might be a better option, considering it'll be built into some mobile phones as of next year).

Three Rock and Clermont Carn are the transmitters that cover both areas.

Which one of these is the one visible from Stillorgan / Kilmacud? I've always wondered that!

lawhec · 20-12-2005 10:44am

Interesting news. Might hook back up the radio to the attic aerial on the off-chance that a potential signal from Clermont Carn will be strong enough.

The multiplex will either be 12A or 12C alright (I can't remember which one is set aside for RTÉ) but most importantly what bitrates will they use? Will they use a minimum of 192kbps or will they go down the sub-standard UK route of warbly sound?

DMC · 20-12-2005 10:52am

Thats Three Rock.

I understand the concerns about using a technology that seems to be given the bird by other countries, but DAB radios are flying out of the shops in the UK for the last year, and thats where we look to for technology developments. The BBC and Ofcom will be looking for more frequencies in the next year or so. I would like to hear RTÉ's thoughts on this.

If there are only 4 (or 5?) stations on the trial, I presume that it wont be less than 128k, they did trial 192 in 1999, but then, so did the BBC!

lawhec · 20-12-2005 6:54pm

DMC wrote:

If there are only 4 (or 5?) stations on the trial, I presume that it wont be less than 128k, they did trial 192 in 1999, but then, so did the BBC!

Well unlike the Beeb, RTÉ have no public plans to launch new stations, then again yesterday I had no idea RTÉ were planning DAB transmissions in a months time! :eek: Nevertheless I don't see RTÉ launching any news stations anytime soon.

In their last tests on Three Rock Mountain, RTÉ had their four main networks, Today FM and WRN involved in the trials. A DAB multiplex has a datastream of around 1.2Mbps, so six streams at 192kbps sounds right. Take into account that the only split programming has is RTÉ Radio 1 for some opt-outs for sports and arts repeats at weekends. That opt-out could be run as a secondary service.

There's no reason why RTÉ cannot run their four main services on at least 192kbps, or even higher if Today FM isn't part of these trials. The only problem is that some DAB radios available in the UK cannot handle datastreams higher than 224kbps, so a limit will be there because of manufactuers.

DAB isn't the most economical digital system out there, and there are faults with it but with it being a reasonable success and the prices of portable units now hitting a price which is affordable, RTÉ is probably now being serious in testing the water. The only problem is that if this trial is a success, the lack of available frequencies allocated for Ireland in Band III make it unsuitable for anything but national coverage. Forget L-Band, that's now dead.

Now if they get a kick-start with DTT... :rolleyes:

byte · 20-12-2005 9:42pm

Oooh, this is indeed most interesting. So I guess they've scrapped the idea of using DRM, and will use DAB instead. As it's BandIII, will this cause any conflicts with services already on BandIII already? RTE on Truskmore, for example, or the cable co's use Band III also.

Propellerhead · 20-12-2005 10:00pm

I wouldn't say they have ruled out DRM, as its a MW/LW alternative, whearas DAB is an FM replacement. As cable is a closed circuit, it wont affect TV's. I think I'm right in saying that the two Band III frequencies planned for DAB Irish use are not currently used by RTÉ for TV.

lawhec · 20-12-2005 10:43pm

byte wrote:

As it's BandIII, will this cause any conflicts with services already on BandIII already? RTE on Truskmore, for example, or the cable co's use Band III also.

It should not with any terrestial services. Only transmitters that used Channel J conflicted with any current DAB assignments, and that was Kippure (quite some time ago), Letterkenny & Moville (both now UHF only).

Cable? It dependson the infastructure of the network. Hearing stories of the NTL network in Dublin, don't be surprised to hear of any tales of interference :rolleyes:

On another note, apparently Digital 1 commenced broadcasting from Blaenpwylf yesterday. Any possible reception reports in the South-East?

Ulsterman 1690 · 20-12-2005 11:45pm

DMC wrote:

Since no UK manufactured radio has L band (not widely available on the market),

Didnt realise there was such thing as a "UK manufactured" DAB radio (bar the odd HiFi tuner maybe)
The majority of DAB radios sold in the UK dont cover L band (many dont even cover all of Band 3 :rolleyes: ) but IIRC there are one or two that do have it.

And of course Canadian DAB is all on L band so there must be radios out there somewhere

Mind you Id imagine that getting an any way decent level of coverage on L-band would cost stations an absolute fortune :eek:

DMC · 21-12-2005 12:17am

LOL, um, mis-typed that... what I meant to type was "manufactured for the UK market".

I think the Roberts radios are made in the UK, I dont see a "Made in China" on my DAB radio or box, but then again, it doesn't say "Made in Britain" either. :rolleyes:

Has Canadian DAB died? Satellite radio seems to be taking off, on both sides of the 49th Parallel. I think New Zealand DAB uses the same L band config as Canada, but it hasn't taken off either.

21-12-2005 12:51am

Northern Correspondent wrote:

On another note, apparently Digital 1 commenced broadcasting from Blaenpwylf yesterday. Any possible reception reports in the South-East?

Hmmm
I must get a Dab.
I can get analog TV from Blaenplwf.
Afaik, it's about 60 miles due East of Arklow.The local rowing club and sailing club often do the crossing.
I've sometimes got Dtt from there.

I'm more interested in Arfon.It must be practically line of sight from here if you had uber bionic eyes.
I mean no obstacles and just a perfect sea path.
I say that because Arfon analog TV reception here is crystal.
I know if I was on croghan mountain now,I'd get Blaenplwf's Dab, no problems,I say-its 2000 ft ASL and overlooking the Irish sea.

Heh! maybe I'll order one on line now and go up there on the 27th or 28th and experience a blizzard while I'm at it-kill two birds with one stone

(yes it might snow after Xmas folks)

lawhec · 21-12-2005 1:11am

Earthman wrote:

I'm more interested in Arfon.It must be practically line of sight from here if you had uber bionic eyes.
I mean no obstacles and just a perfect sea path.
I say that because Arfon analog TV reception here is crystal.
I know if I was on croghan mountain now,I'd get Blaenplwf's Dab, no problems,I say-its 2000 ft ASL and overlooking the Irish sea.

Heh! maybe I'll order one on line now and go up there on the 27th or 28th and experience a blizzard while I'm at it-kill two birds with one stone

(yes it might snow after Xmas folks)

Arfon is one of the future Digital 1 transmission sites planned. No plans for its use from the BBC though.

watty · 21-12-2005 2:01pm

byte wrote:

Oooh, this is indeed most interesting. So I guess they've scrapped the idea of using DRM, and will use DAB instead. As it's BandIII, will this cause any conflicts with services already on BandIII already? RTE on Truskmore, for example, or the cable co's use Band III also.

I do have sources I can't reveal.

DRM is going to happen on RTE LW and MW. They are doing remote monitoring of Irish TX sites in UK (I maybe shouldn't have said that!).

The main market in UK for DAB seems to be mobile Car Radio as those not interested stick to VHF-FM in home and those wanting Quality are using the 70 Radio stations on "Sky".

Oddlly Homebase in Limerick has a huge display of DAB radio.

"No Signal Received"

If anyone lend me a DAB set I can see if it is receivable on the Arra Mountains next time I check the repeater up there. A handheld with rubber duck and 0.5W works Mt Lienster and Dundalk UHF and VHF repeaters from there. Perfect quality. On TX actually Dundalk and Dungarvin (Helvic Head) BOTH open (Same Frequency).

Also normally West Tyrone repeater works from there too. I think it is broken right now.

Arra Mountains are in Tipp. beside Ballina/Killaloe not far north of Limerick City.

I have OPTICAL line of site to there from Patrickswell. A private Microwave link and some DTT & DAB gear with a suitable aerial Arrays would be interesting.

lawhec · 21-12-2005 2:56pm

I got a message back from RTÉ reception about the trial.

* As expected, the two transmitter sites involved will be Three Rock and Clermont Carn.
* The trail will use DAB Channel 12C
* The transmissions from Clermont Carn will be directional away from Northern Ireland. They don't expect me to receive their service but if I do, they said they'd be happy to hear from me again. So I take it they'll be happy to accept reception reports from different places.

lawhec · 21-12-2005 3:02pm

The main market in UK for DAB seems to be mobile Car Radio as those not interested stick to VHF-FM in home and those wanting Quality are using the 70 Radio stations on "Sky".

It's far from it Watty. I read recently that only 1 in 200 new cars being sold in the UK have a DAB tuner as standard. The vast majority of DAB sets being sold are portable table top radios. For Hi-Fi systems, there are only a handful of DAB tuners out there though there are tuners you can get in Dixons to add on through an AUX socket for around £30. For proper setups, VHF-FM is still hugely popular, as is Sky but Freeview also has a small but significant following. Its no co-incidence that many Freeview boxes are cheaper than DAB sets in the UK either - hooked up to an existing TV aerial, there's over 25 stations available - take a stereo phono lead out to the hi-fi and you're set up.

watty · 21-12-2005 6:05pm

Sound fairly dismal for DAB the small number of cars. And that is the biggest "market segment" for some categories of people.

Are the qty of Dab Tabletops skewed by availability of decent sized Table top radios?

byrnefm · 21-12-2005 7:02pm

Northern Correspondent wrote:

I got a message back from RTÉ reception about the trial.

Hiya,

who did you contact at RTÉ? Just wondering as I'd send them on reception reports also, if they're looking for them.

Cheers,
..Francis

DMC · 21-12-2005 7:54pm

Yes, I wonder are they looking for reception reports.... Any word on how much power they are using??

deaglan169 · 21-12-2005 8:00pm

hi i recently bought a "matsui dab audio adapter da-1" here is a list of the stations im receiving from the 1 foot long piece of antenna wire that comes standard with the adapter,
Score N.I MUX
classic
3c
citybeat
cool fm
downtown
kiss
q102.9
primetime
BBC Divis MUX
Radio 1
R2
R3
R4
1xtra
6 Music
5 Live
SportX
Asian
World
BBC 7
Ulster

i was just wondering if anyone else receiving the same MUX's as myself are getting more stations,or if anyone in the same area as myself are receiving other MUX's,I am hoping to modify the antenna and make and external jack,when i do a manual search i am receiving other stations but they aren't coming above the minimum signal required for reception.any help or info would be great

Dec

DMC · 21-12-2005 8:23pm

Hi and welcome. No, you wont recieve any more stations from the Score NI mux than you already have. Just on your list there, the BBC mux is a national one, and has no local stations on it. BBC Radio Ulster is actually on the Score NI mux. Some BBC English counties local radio depend on the local commercial mux owner to get on DAB.

Ofcom are going to address this....

Ofcom's releases today...

Ofcom today published its final statement on the further development of Digital Audio Broadcasting (DAB) radio.

Ofcom will allocate three blocks of VHF Band III spectrum to fill the gaps in local multiplex coverage, so providing the opportunity to every part of the UK to receive local DAB Digital Radio services (including both commercial and BBC local and nations radio services), and one block to a further national commercial multiplex to provide additional choice for as many listeners as possible.

It has also published a consultation to seek views on the licensing process for this additional local and national DAB capacity.

The full documents can be found below.

Statement on Radio Licensing Policy for VHF Band III:
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/vhf/statement/

Consultation - The Future Licensing of DAB Digital Radio:
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/dab/

From MediaGuardian

Digital radio coverage to rise

http://media.guardian.co.uk/radio/story/0,12636,1672061,00.html

Julia Day
Wednesday December 21, 2005

Ofcom has confirmed it will plug the gaps in the UK's digital radio coverage by making spectrum available for new local and national digital multiplexes.

The media regulator's decision means that every part of the country will eventually be able to receive digital radio broadcasts. At the moment 37 areas of the UK have no local digital stations including Dumfries, Caernarfon and Northampton.

The Ofcom chief executive, Stephen Carter, said: "Additional capacity allows more radio services to join television and telecoms in the transition to digital. For listeners, this new capacity will mean more choice, more new services and greater coverage."

However, the regulator's decision to release a new national digital multiplex - a group of radio licences - is likely to anger GCap Media, the majority shareholder of the only existing national digital multiplex apart from the BBC, Digital One.

Ralph Bernard, the GCap chief executive, warned in July that he would take Ofcom to a judicial review if it proceeded with releasing more UK-wide digital spectrum. He believes that Digital One's investment in building the UK's digital radio industry from scratch should be protected.

Ofcom said in October that the services on the new national multiplex should cater for tastes "distinct" from those on Digital One. But GCap said it was still considering taking legal action.

MediaGuardian.co.uk contacted GCap for a response to today's Ofcom decision but it had not returned calls by the time of publication.

Other radio companies are keen to get their hands on a new national licence.

Dee Ford, the managing director of Emap Radio, has said her company would bid for a national multiplex and is exploring the options of doing this as a joint venture.

"An extension of consumer choice is great, with the multiplex under the Broadcasting Act is superb. Big swaths of white space will be filled up and digital radio will finally be considered a viable option," Ms Ford said recently.

It is seeking views through a consultation on how the new multiplexes should be licensed and by what criteria the licences should be awarded.

This includes broadening the range of programmes on local multiplexes and the ability to promote digital take-up on the national multiplex to help to sustain and grow digital radio in the UK.

DAB in Ireland: RTE multiplex closed

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