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Super Jet not that Super

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    #2
    Cloudio9
    Registered Users Posts: 1,351 ✭✭✭Cloudio9


    Has been stated here previously that they are being returned to the manufacturer.

    I suspect whatever deal aer Lingus have with city involves some commit on fleet replacement.


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    #3
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users Posts: 5,858 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    Oh dear.

    They never got their LCY certification either, so they are basically useless.


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    #4
    martinsvi
    Registered Users Posts: 1,729 ✭✭✭martinsvi


    Cloudio9 wrote: »
    Has been stated here previously that they are being returned to the manufacturer.

    I suspect whatever deal aer Lingus have with city involves some commit on fleet replacement.

    completely unaware of what you're talking about, what deal?


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    #5
    Cloudio9
    Registered Users Posts: 1,351 ✭✭✭Cloudio9


    martinsvi wrote: »
    completely unaware of what you're talking about, what deal?

    The deal to operate DUB-LCY on behalf of aer lingus, similar to what Stobart does for them.


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    #6
    Dardania
    Registered Users Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Dardania


    It's a shame, I was on an Aeroflot one last year and it seemed fine from the passenger perspective. A bit "positive"with the pilot's inputs, and a touch loud (not quite 737-200 level)


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    #7
    HTCOne
    Registered Users Posts: 869 ✭✭✭HTCOne


    Apparently it’s no more unreliable than similar types, and the fuel burn is supposed to be pretty good. The problem is when something does go wrong, the aftermarket support is woeful and the aircraft are grounded for unacceptably long periods of time while troubleshooting occurs.

    A common problem, Embraer and Bombardier were both notorious for it for years, MRO support woeful compared to the big boys.


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    #8
    rivegauche
    Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭rivegauche


    Air Baltic supposedly has had 50 engine replacements on the cs100/a220 but they've been looked after by the manufacturer as a launch customer should be so they aren't complaining.

    Superjet had its problems but with proper customer care the Customer would have made it through. Not all their problems can be attributed to the communist construction because a huge proportion of the plane is made from Western components.

    Controversial part of post:
    I wouldn't buy a Lada over a Dacia. They may both be the scrapings of the same components from the Renault parts bin barrel but the Corporate culture in Russia ensures that the Lada is thrown together; the company is an excuse for connected individuals to siphon off wealth. I don't see how Sukhoi can be immune to the same corporate culture and I'm distrustful of the motivations to Bolshify the Superjet in the near future.
    Outwardly the justification is perfectly reasonable but it just makes the project a bigger pork barrel.


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    #9
    Stovepipe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,979 ✭✭✭Stovepipe


    I believe that Russian companies don't quite grasp the concept of customer service and global support in the fashion of say, Cessna. This is not confined to Russia. I have encountered French and Italian aviation manufacturers who regard treating the paying customer with sublime indifference as a matter of routine. So, in the case of the SSJ, nice aircraft, shame about the back up.


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    #10
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,850 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    The global support level that the big boys can offer due to their scale would cripple a new entrant financially so there are elements of that as well. Airlines are now used to the parts distribution and AOG support from the established manufacturers.


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    #11
    pfurey101
    Registered Users Posts: 687 ✭✭✭pfurey101


    Stovepipe wrote: »
    I believe that Russian companies don't quite grasp the concept of customer service and global support in the fashion of say, Cessna. This is not confined to Russia. I have encountered French and Italian aviation manufacturers who regard treating the paying customer with sublime indifference as a matter of routine. So, in the case of the SSJ, nice aircraft, shame about the back up.




    It reminds me of my days in Aer Lingus having to deal with British Aerospace for the 1-11's v. dealing with Boeing. No comparison! Awful stuff. But the Russians seem to have taken it down to a whole new level!


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    #12
    Stovepipe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,979 ✭✭✭Stovepipe


    As an example, in Lingus, with the 146s, we wanted a particular part that was rarely changed and sent the request up the food chain. A quote for this part came back from BAe (I think they were called Jetspares and dealt with the 146 and the Jetstreams) and the price, was, for example, £2000. A dealer in aircraft parts also replied and quoted us £1800. Our purchasing guy rang BAe and mentioned the other price, to see if the manufacturer was prepared to do better. The answer was that we could could buy from whom we liked and that he didn't care either way, so we bought the part from the other guy. If it was Boeing or Cessna, they'd have bitten your hand off for the business.


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    #13
    BlackandGreen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 310 ✭✭BlackandGreen


    Thats a shame. I was on an Aeroflot one last year and it was quite a comfortable aircraft. 
    I prefer it over the E190 and the god awful Avro RJ.


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    #14
    LeakRate
    Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭LeakRate


    Brussels Airlines have accelerated the departure of the Sukhoi/Cityjet wetlease, last flights to be operated today. All the Cityjet fleet to be returned to sukhoi. A gamble that didnt pay off I guess.


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    #15
    Stovepipe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,979 ✭✭✭Stovepipe


    well, they have to get shot of the RJs as well so I'm guessing that the Bombardiers will be used to fill in for the SSJs.


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    #16
    EnzoScifo
    Registered Users Posts: 409 ✭✭EnzoScifo


    A shame really, but not getting certification for LCY really was a blow. No coming back from that.


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    #17
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,081 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    You'd have to question wtf is going on in fleet management in Cityjet between being stuck with ageing unreliable Avros and bringing in those dodgy Sukhois. I mean, really??

    I was due to fly on a 146 in 2003 to BHX in that type's dying days on EI, predictably it went tech and a 320 was subbed in! 15 years later an airline is still relying on it for a large proportion of its operations... it's a three engined plane with a hot spare

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #18
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,850 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    What they have now are the slightly more reliable second-gen models, including many very late line frames. But they're still aging and fairly poor compared to other options; also the 3x3 seating is incredibly cramped.


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    #19
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,081 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    I think you're referring to the Avros and not the Sukhois?

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #20
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,850 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Yes. 146s were noticeably worse


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    #21
    Stovepipe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,979 ✭✭✭Stovepipe


    From what Ive heard, there is an issue with cracks on the fins of the Sukhois and Cityjet can't do anything themselves to remedy this, as they do not hold part 21 design authority, so they are entirely dependent on Sukhoi getting the finger out and sorting them out. The Mexican airline that operates them is said to have the relevant authority and has continued operations and Cityjet appears to have reached the end of its tether.


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    #22
    goingnowhere
    Registered Users Posts: 4,142 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    I can see a A220 order coming soon here, no other way to go really, and the A220 has landed at LCY...

    Sadly the A220 is really what the Superjet could have been, but with Bombardier and Airbus behind it and large US and EU orders it will likely be a winner.


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    #23
    rivegauche
    Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭rivegauche


    CRJ has loads of life left in it and A220 production slots are filling up fast.
    CRJ can't do LCY but is otherwise fine for regional transport in Europe.
    I can see A220 pushing CRJ off routes elsewhere and those secondhand planes becoming available to European operators.


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    #24
    Deatr
    Registered Users Posts: 98 ✭✭Deatr


    Stovepipe wrote: »
    From what Ive heard, there is an issue with cracks on the fins of the Sukhois and Cityjet can't do anything themselves to remedy this, as they do not hold part 21 design authority, so they are entirely dependent on Sukhoi getting the finger out and sorting them out. The Mexican airline that operates them is said to have the relevant authority and has continued operations and Cityjet appears to have reached the end of its tether.

    This issue was fixed long ago and has nothing to do with why the aircraft is being taken out of service.


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    #25
    LeakRate
    Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭LeakRate


    From what I heard, they were quite a good jet, and no more unreliable than similar types, it was just the support when things did go wrong was practically non existant, phones not being answered etc, leading to extended downtimes.
    I think the 220 will be too much Aircraft for them, some second hand 170/190 ejets which seam to be available at good lease costs is what I can see happening.


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    #26
    Under His Eye
    Closed Accounts Posts: 907 ✭✭✭Under His Eye


    I like the Sukhoi Superjet as it is not as cramped as the cursed Avro and 146. 5 across is acceptable.


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    #27
    arubex
    Registered Users Posts: 1,197 ✭✭✭arubex


    Nijmegen wrote: »
    Doesn't do much for your confidence in Russian aircraft.

    The SuperJet has full EASA certification. Just like the CRJ, E-Jets and C-Series Now if you want to discuss the fact that certification doesn't catch certain design or manufacturing issues, that's another conversation entirely. Airworthy Directives are issued daily, some of the issues are quite alarming. The SuperJet issue wasn't any more so.


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    #28
    Shn99
    Registered Users Posts: 1,353 ✭✭✭Shn99


    Interjet in Mexico are getting rid of theirs too.


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    #29
    Shn99
    Registered Users Posts: 1,353 ✭✭✭Shn99


    Adria taking them.
    https://www.exyuaviation.com/2019/02/adria-to-take-cityjet-sukhois.html?spref=tw


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