Handwriting decipher thread must post link to full page

Rick Barrett · 30-07-2015 3:33am

Reference microfilm No. 04789/03 marriages of Tracton Abbey, Diocese of Cork & Ross. Page 37. Entry on right side of page, third from top... Date appears to be November 17, 1862.
Bride appears to be Julia Leahy and the Groom, James Daly.
I think the surname of the groom may be recorded incorrectly. I think it should be Barrett... James Barrett. So I am wondering if anyone has ever come across an entry wherein the parish priest recorded the family name of the groom incorrectly? For instance, flip-flopping the name of groom with that of a witness? Also, the entire entry is barely legible.
Thank you, Rick Barrett

Hermy · 30-07-2015 9:58am

The same record appears on irishgenealogy.ie and I think the image quality is a wee bit better if that's any help.

link

CeannRua · 30-07-2015 8:31pm

Hermy wrote: »

The same record appears on irishgenealogy.ie and I think the image quality is a wee bit better if that's any help.

link

If I'm looking at the right one, the date is 27 October 1862. Re the groom's surname, anyone can make a mistake. I think both the bride's surname and that of one of the witnesses though is Foley. It's difficult to read but I can't see Leahy at all.

clashburke · 31-07-2015 11:49pm

http://137.191.249.36/registers/vtls000633445#page/48/mode/1up

Anyone make out the 2 notes on the second marriage down on page 48?

Has it something to do with cousins?

Cheers

Hermy · 01-08-2015 12:11am

Not sure what it means but I think it reads something like this

3rd et 4th consanguinity duplici capite a cardinal dispensation

annalynskey · 01-08-2015 12:54pm

Next to the marriage of my Great Great aunt Mary Lynch /Lynskey and a james Geraghty
( Kilmore erris Nov 3rd 1863) it says 4 et 4 .Would that make them first or second cousins?
Mary's father was Philip Lynch / Lynskey and James's mother was Bridget Lynch . Or could they be related in a different way? Mary and James left Binghamstown nr Belmullet mayo for Rush Indiana about 1864/65.

L1011 · 01-08-2015 12:59pm

Hermy wrote: »

Not sure what it means but I think it reads something like this

3rd et 4th consanguinity duplici capite a cardinal dispensation

3rd degree of consanguinity is uncle/niece or aunt/nephew and fourth is first cousins. How you get a mix of the two of those I don't know! Dispensations were allowed and given so that's presumably the rest of it.

First cousins marrying is legal for civil marriages here but I'm not sure about the uncle/niece possibility.

eqwjewoiujqorj · 01-08-2015 1:29pm

4 et 4 means they shared the same gg grandparents.

clashburke · 01-08-2015 2:51pm

so would 3 et 4 mean the great grand parent of the one person was the great great grand parent of the other?

CeannRua · 01-08-2015 6:09pm

clashburke wrote: »

http://137.191.249.36/registers/vtls000633445#page/48/mode/1up

Anyone make out the 2 notes on the second marriage down on page 48?

Has it something to do with cousins?

Cheers

Something like 3tio et 4to consangtis duplicis & capite a cardinali dispensatis.

Not sure about the ending of the word I have as duplicis but would guess that this, in conjunction with the mentions of 3rd and 4th, means that the bride and groom were doubly related; so down different lines. The reference to the cardinal probably means that the dispensation was granted by Cardinal Paul Cullen who was Archbishop of Dublin at the time.

CeannRua · 02-08-2015 7:45am

annalynskey wrote: »

Next to the marriage of my Great Great aunt Mary Lynch /Lynskey and a james Geraghty
( Kilmore erris Nov 3rd 1863) it says 4 et 4 .Would that make them first or second cousins?
Mary's father was Philip Lynch / Lynskey and James's mother was Bridget Lynch . Or could they be related in a different way? Mary and James left Binghamstown nr Belmullet mayo for Rush Indiana about 1864/65.

They're probably first cousins but there must be something else. They're not double first cousins? I don't know if the double surname is significant?

Some impediments might be due to affinity rather than consanguinity. The only way to check is to extend your research.

annalynskey · 02-08-2015 9:52am

thanks for the reply, could you explain what you mean by affinity ? Thanks again

P. Breathnach · 02-08-2015 10:22am

Affinity is a non-blood family connection. For example, the connection between in-laws. In RC law, a man may not marry his brother's widow without a dispensation.

KildareFan · 02-08-2015 6:11pm

See rules on prohibited relationships in Marriage at http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/getting_married/legal_prerequisites_for_marriage.html
Prohibited degrees of relationship

Prohibitions apply to marriage between certain people related by blood or marriage. A couple who fall within the prohibited degrees of relationship cannot marry. These prohibitions are based on:

consanguinity – blood relationship including half blood (half blood means having one parent in common, for example a half-brother)
affinity – relationship by marriage

The prohibited degrees apply to a wide range of family relationships and include marital and non-marital offspring.

An adopted child is within the prohibited degrees in relation to its natural family and adoptive parents. However, it would appear an adopted child can marry the child of his/her adoptive parents.

The Deceased Wife’s Sister Act 1907 and the Deceased Husband’s Widow’s Marriage Act 1921 allow a man to marry his deceased wife’s sister and a woman to marry her deceased husband’s brother. Following a High Court decision in October 2006, if a marriage ends due to a divorce rather than a death the prohibition on marrying no longer applies.

There is no legal restriction on the marriage of first cousins.

montgo · 03-08-2015 9:24am

Can anyone help with sponsors names on the last entry P. 74, 24 Oct 1870.

Ellen of David Bourke & Honora(ia) Meagher, sps John ?? & Mary ??

Hermy · 03-08-2015 10:00am

Mary might be Bourke or (o)Rorke.

Not sure about John - the first letter has me.
Have you tried going through the surnames for that area on the Census to get suggestions?

montgo · 03-08-2015 10:10am

Yes, might be Bourke. Yes the first letter has me stumped as well.

If it were a P then it could be Purcell at a push:) -

Hermy · 03-08-2015 10:13am

Hermy wrote: »

Have you tried going through the surnames for that area on the Census to get suggestions?

I have and it hasn't helped!:o

KildareFan · 03-08-2015 10:14am

I think John's surname starts with an S... it looks something like Samson or Sammon; Mary's name possibly starts with BR.... possibly Brain?

montgo · 03-08-2015 10:36am

Hermy wrote: »

I have and it hasn't helped!:o

Thanks Hermy, I also look at the Griffiths records and no obvious possibility there either.

Mary's name looks more O'R to me now so maybe O'Rourke or as Kildare suggests Br.

Mollymoo19 · 03-08-2015 4:29pm

montgo wrote: »

Can anyone help with sponsors names on the last entry P. 74, 24 Oct 1870.

Ellen of David Bourke & Honora(ia) Meagher, sps John ?? & Mary ??

or, perhaps John's surname starts with a G, as in Gorman.

montgo · 03-08-2015 10:34pm

It turns out that Roots have the sponsors as John Sampson & Mary Ahern!

wexflyer · 11-08-2015 6:11pm

I am having difficulty reading the townland placename associated with the 18th May 1841 baptism entry for Anne Walsh on the following page
registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634014#page/5/mode/1up
I can read just about every other word on the page, except the one of critical interest! I don't think the initial letter is an "a", as there appears to be a downstroke. It is stated to be a townland in the parish of Mayglass/Maglass, Ferns, but the list of town lands for Mayglass does not show any obvious candidates.
Any suggestions?
Thanks in advance

Hermy · 11-08-2015 7:55pm

I'm struggling to see an entry for May 18th for Walsh using the link provided.
Can you say which line it is?

shanew · 11-08-2015 8:25pm

I believe it's the entry squashed between two lines - I can see what looks a bit like Mayglass, but not much on the other

shanew · 11-08-2015 8:33pm

a blow up of that part of the entry.. comparing to the entry above, it looks like the top word might start with a g.. which touches off the placename below, c.f. also the g in Margaret to the left

wexflyer · 11-08-2015 9:09pm

Hermy wrote: »

I'm struggling to see an entry for May 18th for Walsh using the link provided.
Can you say which line it is?

It is the interpolated entry, 4th from the bottom left corner. Shanew has posted a screen copy of the relevant entry (thanks).

wexflyer · 11-08-2015 9:14pm

shanew wrote: »

I believe it's the entry squashed between two lines - I can see what looks a bit like Mayglass, but not much on the other
]

Yes, that is the correct entry. The register consistently gives the address as "townland xyz, civil parish abc". So this the entry I am after is ???, Mayglass. The townland name does seem to start with a "g" - but I find it hard to match with any of the known Mayglass townlands.

Jellybaby1 · 11-08-2015 9:32pm

shanew wrote: »

I believe it's the entry squashed between two lines - I can see what looks a bit like Mayglass, but not much on the other

I'm probably way off, but I'm going to take a stab at 'Arklow'. Doubt if anyone would agree though.

CeannRua · 11-08-2015 9:55pm

The entry for 22 August says Griddle. Looks like same word in entry that is being questioned.

Handwriting decipher thread *must post link to full page*

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Handwriting decipher thread must post link to full page