The West Wing Spoilers

ShineOn7 · 04-11-2020 7:57pm

maudgonner wrote: »

https://twitter.com/JoshMalina/status/1324039846738812928

Did they need to write Rob Lowe out of something again?

I'm not connecting how this Tweet links with Lowe?

rebel girl 15 · 04-11-2020 8:00pm

ShineOn7 wrote: »

I'm not connecting how this Tweet links with Lowe?

Sam Seaborne promised Will Bailey and the wife that he would run in the place of the dead candidate, which is how he was written out of the show, that he lost the race

ShineOn7 · 04-11-2020 8:11pm

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

Sam Seaborne promised Will Bailey and the wife that he would run in the place of the dead candidate, which is how he was written out of the show, that he lost the race

Ah!

As an aside; I'm sure we've all had our mental battles since March and this week hasn't been great for me

Good ol' West Wing rewatch on All 4's app has been a much needed distraction and a reminder of why I loved the show years ago

It's a pity we can't have this man elected today

rebel girl 15 · 04-11-2020 9:14pm

I'm on episode 15 since starting Saturday on All4 - had a bad day at work Monday and feeling rubbish with a migraine type thing going on the last few days so literally been coming home and going to bed watching it

rebel girl 15 · 05-11-2020 12:10am

I got a comment back from Melissa Fitzgerald - who used play Carole, and a twitter like from Mary McCormack who was Kate Harper in later seasons this week which has made me very happy!

killbillvol2 · 05-11-2020 12:28am

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

I got a comment back from Melissa Fitzgerald - who used play Carole, and a twitter like from Mary McCormack who was Kate Harper in later seasons this week which has made me very happy!

Chin up. It's the perfect show to keep your spirits up.

09-11-2020 11:40am

Listening to Pat Kenny this morning he has a soldier who went to the Congo back in the 70s. Some of the place names he's mentioned sound similar or the same as places mentioned during the episodes involving the conflict in Kundu.

I think we can guess where Sorkin got the names.

ShineOn7 · 09-11-2020 11:47am

Deleted User wrote: »

I think we can guess where Sorkin got the names.

I think he invented an entire country that Bartlet goes to war with if memory serves

09-11-2020 12:41pm

ShineOn7 wrote: »

I think he invented an entire country that Bartlet goes to war with if memory serves

He invented the Republic of Equatorial Kundu, which suffered a coup d'etat. They then proceeded to commit genocide against part of its citizens. The story was loosely based on the events of Rwanda in 1994.

My point was the place names referred to sounded very similar to Congolese names.

cjmcork · 10-11-2020 3:12pm

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

I'm on episode 15 since starting Saturday on All4 - had a bad day at work Monday and feeling rubbish with a migraine type thing going on the last few days so literally been coming home and going to bed watching it

it's my comfort telly!

13-11-2020 7:16am

Started binging this over the last 3 weeks. Got as far as Season 5 episode 4 and I couldn't keep going. Season 5 started to get far too serious for my liking with too many flashback/vanity shots. Only just seen that Sorkin quit after season 4 which makes sense considering the massive tone change in the 5th season. I did love John Goodman as the special guest though.

13-11-2020 10:40am

Deleted User wrote: »

Started binging this over the last 3 weeks. Got as far as Season 5 episode 4 and I couldn't keep going. Season 5 started to get far too serious for my liking with too many flashback/vanity shots. Only just seen that Sorkin quit after season 4 which makes sense considering the massive tone change in the 5th season. I did love John Goodman as the special guest though.

Thats your prerogative but there's a lot of good stuff you're going to miss out on.

The Supremes and Shutdown, both in Season 5 are fantastic episodes. Liftoff in Season 6 is also one of my favourite episodes.

ShineOn7 · 13-11-2020 11:18am

Deleted User wrote: »

Started binging this over the last 3 weeks. Got as far as Season 5 episode 4 and I couldn't keep going. Season 5 started to get far too serious for my liking with too many flashback/vanity shots. Only just seen that Sorkin quit after season 4 which makes sense considering the massive tone change in the 5th season. I did love John Goodman as the special guest though.

Couldn't agree more. On this current rewatch I think I'll likely be bailing at the end of Season 4 too

West Wing - The Sorkin Years
West Wing - The Non Sorkin Years

They are two completely different shows and characters like Donna and Toby were ruined in later seasons

The only saving grace are the episodes written by Deborah Cahn. There is wonderful humour in them and they're the closest we get to Sorkin's style when he leaves

Acosta · 13-11-2020 12:25pm

Can understand people skipping episodes in season 4 and 5 but I'd pick it up again once the race for the Democratic presidential nomination kicks off in season 6. The silly Toby stuff aside it's pretty good from there on.

ShineOn7 · 13-11-2020 12:33pm

Acosta wrote: »

Can understand people skipping episodes in season 4 and 5

I remember Season 4 been a bit pactchy as it was when Sorkin's drug problems took over

But I don't think any episodes felt skippable, not in the same way parts of Season 5 are cures for insomnia

13-11-2020 2:39pm

ShineOn7 wrote: »

I remember Season 4 been a bit pactchy as it was when Sorkin's drug problems took over

But I don't think any episodes felt skippable, not in the same way parts of Season 5 are cures for insomnia

I actually think Season 4 is one of the best. The only episode I skip is the Long Goodbye when CJ goes home for her Highschool reunion and she sees how much her fathers alzheimers has progressed. Sad, non-whitehouse based episode.

Season 5 I felt dealt with the kidnapping storyline too quickly. John Goodman was excellent and I would have liked to see more of him.

"I'm going to blow the hell out of something tonight and God only knows what happens next".

A Fun fact which just occurred to me: What have Donald Trump and Jed Bartlett got in common? Both the only presidents in a century to not have any pets.

ShineOn7 · 30-11-2020 7:12pm

What's your favourite episode?

I've been making my way through a rewatch of this amazing show and last night got to the episode regarded by most as the greatest in all 7 seasons:

Two Cathedrals

It is indeed worthy of this acclaim. But I'm not sure what's my overall fav

Maybe jointly: In the Shadow of Two Gunmen, parts 1 and 2 (season two, episodes one and two)

Or

Bartlet for America (season three, episode 9) is such a great episode

Here's an article to give you some ideas https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2020/oct/21/10-best-episodes-of-the-west-wing-all-4

30-11-2020 8:34pm

Loved this tweet from “josh”

https://twitter.com/bradleywhitford/status/1333215667470921730?s=21

TheIrishGrover · 01-12-2020 12:27am

Deleted User wrote: »

Started binging this over the last 3 weeks. Got as far as Season 5 episode 4 and I couldn't keep going. Season 5 started to get far too serious for my liking with too many flashback/vanity shots. Only just seen that Sorkin quit after season 4 which makes sense considering the massive tone change in the 5th season. I did love John Goodman as the special guest though.

I do agree that S4 and S5 isn't nearly as good as S1-4. Apart from individual episodes (As you said, John Goodman was fantastic). But, as others have said, it does pick up again and get a lot livelier in Season 6 & 7 with the series splitting its time in the Whitehouse and away from it 50/50. (Trying not to give anything away)

Again, trying not to spoil anything, one of the weaknesses I thought with the earlier seasons was the demonisation on the Republican Party. They were practically twirling their eeeeevil mustaches at times. The last couple of seasons really made up for that with very engaging Republican characters.

Stick in there. There are some great episodes left.

Smacruairi · 01-12-2020 12:30am

ShineOn7 wrote: »

What's your favourite episode?

I've been making my way through a rewatch of this amazing show and last night got to the episode regarded by most as the greatest in all 7 seasons:

Two Cathedrals

It is indeed worthy of this acclaim. But I'm not sure what's my overall fav

Maybe jointly: In the Shadow of Two Gunmen, parts 1 and 2 (season two, episodes one and two)

Or

Bartlet for America (season three, episode 9) is such a great episode

Here's an article to give you some ideas https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2020/oct/21/10-best-episodes-of-the-west-wing-all-4

I love Noel. Just a great episode, even as a standalone to someone who has never seen it. The josh transformation at the end is a bit rushed, but the Leo speech is amazing.

killbillvol2 · 01-12-2020 12:38am

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

I do agree that S4 and S5 isn't nearly as good as S1-4. Apart from individual episodes (As you said, John Goodman was fantastic). But, as others have said, it does pick up again and get a lot livelier in Season 6 & 7 with the series splitting its time in the Whitehouse and away from it 50/50. (Trying not to give anything away)

Again, trying not to spoil anything, one of the weaknesses I thought with the earlier seasons was the demonisation on the Republican Party. They were practically twirling their eeeeevil mustaches at times. The last couple of seasons really made up for that with very engaging Republican characters.

Stick in there. There are some great episodes left.

And yet the current Republican party took those caricatures and expanded on them!

Arnie Vinnick was a great character and his story arc was very well done.

cjmcork · 01-12-2020 10:31am

Ah jaysus lads.....just started a re-watch....lost count at this stage, but at the end of The State Dinner I was in bits, poor Harold

01-12-2020 6:44pm

ShineOn7 wrote: »

What's your favourite episode?

I've been making my way through a rewatch of this amazing show and last night got to the episode regarded by most as the greatest in all 7 seasons:

Two Cathedrals

It is indeed worthy of this acclaim. But I'm not sure what's my overall fav

Maybe jointly: In the Shadow of Two Gunmen, parts 1 and 2 (season two, episodes one and two)

Or

Bartlet for America (season three, episode 9) is such a great episode

Here's an article to give you some ideas https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2020/oct/21/10-best-episodes-of-the-west-wing-all-4

Two Cathedrals is definitely in my top 5 episodes.
The Stackhouse Filibuster is a great episode
Lift Off

CJ's first day as Chief of Staff

is another great epside with some great lines. Like:
CJ: Lord, I never wanted a double vodka at 9 am in the morning.
Margaret: They say the first step is admitting you have a problem
CJ: Margaret, I have a problem.
Margaret: :eek:

Shutdown is another of my favourites and works great as a standalone episode.

I can't remember the episode but Leo preparing for the VP debate is another episode I regularly rewatch just as a one off.

conor_ie · 06-12-2020 7:31am

Donna / Josh Supercut

https://youtu.be/YG-357NsZ90

Tea For Two · 06-12-2020 11:49pm

Second time round watching this. Remember being a Sam (& his white shirt) fan in college. Now I’m liking Josh. Think it’s aged well.

ShineOn7 · 07-12-2020 12:18am

Tea For Two wrote: »

Remember being a Sam (& his white shirt) fan in college

There's a logo/brand on all his white shirts

Anyone know what it is?

Heraldoffreeent · 07-12-2020 1:09am

ShineOn7 wrote: »

There's a logo/brand on all his white shirts

Anyone know what it is?

Isn't it just a monogram?

Tea For Two · 07-12-2020 6:19am

ShineOn7 wrote: »

There's a logo/brand on all his white shirts

Anyone know what it is?

Just did a little research there and found that the initials are supposed to be his own character’s: SNS (Samuel Norman Seaborn). Well spotted ShineOn7!

ShineOn7 · 07-12-2020 9:04am

Tea For Two wrote: »

Just did a little research there and found that the initials are supposed to be his own character’s: SNS (Samuel Norman Seaborn). Well spotted ShineOn7!

Sam got shirts made with his initials on them?

That's .... different

Heraldoffreeent · 07-12-2020 11:55am

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Sam got shirts made with his initials on them?

That's .... different

It used to be fairly common, if you went to a shirtmaker around town, custom shirts etc, to get your shirts made, it would be offered by the maker. Similar if you get them made in Hong Kong.

Nijmegen · 07-12-2020 12:18pm

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Sam got shirts made with his initials on them?

That's .... different

It's very American.

Just got my missus into it and re-watching from S1. First time back with the West Wing in years and I think I might go down the rabbit hole and start listening to the podcast while I'm at it.

The series has aged surprisingly well IMO. If you're clued into your world politics and what have you, the Iraqi plotlines and mentions of Osama Bin Laden etc pre 9/11 might date it; but funnily enough a lot of the bread and butter domestic issues (campaign finance reform, public schools, etc) remain on the agenda. If anything the show is a lot tamer than current politics, making its original idea of being a liberal balm to the GWB era seem like it might now be a cross-party balm to the general weirdness of today.

The comedy is timeless. Josh's chair gone out for repair and Charlie's "I work in a building with some of the smartest people in the world..." THUMP as Josh hits the floor.

07-12-2020 12:56pm

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Sam got shirts made with his initials on them?

That's .... different

Very common in the US. It gets referenced in lots of TV shows too.

In Frasier it referenced his monogrammed towels. In House of Cards, Franderwood had his initials on his cuff links F.U.

The Black Oil · 07-12-2020 2:03pm

Nijmegen wrote: »

The comedy is timeless. Josh's chair gone out for repair and Charlie's "I work in a building with some of the smartest people in the world..." THUMP as Josh hits the floor.

That sort of humour seemed to disappear in the post-Sorkin years.

ShineOn7 · 07-12-2020 2:13pm

The Black Oil wrote: »

That sort of humour seemed to disappear in the post-Sorkin years.

Big time

With the exception of the Deborah Cahn episodes. That woman is a fantastic writer, it's a shame though she doesn't write as many episodes as Sorkin did when he left the show

I'm on a re-watch now, upto early Season 3 and I'm debating if I'll bail at the end of Season 4

Season 5 is a slog to say the least

Nijmegen · 07-12-2020 2:53pm

The Black Oil wrote: »

That sort of humour seemed to disappear in the post-Sorkin years.

Yeah I'm enjoying the Sorkin years and looking forward to the final 2 and then it's really a few select episodes in the middle, but for the missus on her first runthrough we'll do the lot.

ShineOn7 · 14-12-2020 4:18pm

The re-watch is going pretty well, I'm upto around episode 15 in season 3

I think season 3 is among the best:

The acting from Sheen when Bartlett finds the box of pens in Mrs Landingham's desk
It has the episode Barlett For America. I think this is my fav West Wing episode. It's perfect TV from start to finish
And, also, this beautiful woman shows up

MV5BMzE1MTc4ODQ5N15BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwOTM4NTEzMQ@@._V1_UY317_CR4,0,214,317_AL_.jpg

Does anyone else find that, even during rewatches and loads of concentration, that a lot of the Political stuff still goes over your head?

Kirby · 17-01-2021 9:57am

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

I do agree that S4 and S5 isn't nearly as good as S1-4. Apart from individual episodes (As you said, John Goodman was fantastic). But, as others have said, it does pick up again and get a lot livelier in Season 6 & 7 with the series splitting its time in the Whitehouse and away from it 50/50. (Trying not to give anything away)

Again, trying not to spoil anything, one of the weaknesses I thought with the earlier seasons was the demonisation on the Republican Party. They were practically twirling their eeeeevil mustaches at times. The last couple of seasons really made up for that with very engaging Republican characters.

Stick in there. There are some great episodes left.

Republican members of Congress tweeting out Nancy Pelosi's exact location to a rioting mob they knew wanted to LITERALLY hang her. And don't get me started on Ted Cruz.

I think recent events have highlighted that they may have undersold the evilness.

conor_ie · 17-01-2021 1:14pm

I've the next 10 weeks off thanks to COVID so I think it might be time to get a full rewatch done..

ShineOn7 · 17-01-2021 9:31pm

I'm on the last episode of season 4 and what a great re-visit to this show it's been in the last while

All non Sorkin episodes after this unfortunately and the absolute dredge of season 5 to get through

Seasons 6 and 7 are strong though

Nijmegen · 17-01-2021 11:32pm

Got over the Season 5 hump - even my missus was commenting on it being notably off pace. Just got to Impact Winter and the big sea changes coming there - the players getting into place for the presidential primaries and election, Bartlet's MS accelerating. Gonna be hard to give it up in a few weeks!

awec · 18-01-2021 2:44pm

Tea For Two wrote: »

Second time round watching this. Remember being a Sam (& his white shirt) fan in college. Now I’m liking Josh. Think it’s aged well.

Sam was always my least favourite character which was ironic given he was supposed to be the star of the show. Felt his naivity and idealism was a bit too much.

Must have watched this show start to finish 5 or 6 times. Just so easy to watch.

Nijmegen · 18-01-2021 3:56pm

It's mad how unlikeable they made Will Bailey (I'm sure there's a tonne of West Wing lore behind how/why and how much was actor over writers etc) it feels to give a counterpoint for the VP run to the nomination arc. He started off quite a bit different in what we saw when he was running the campaign in California etc.

ShineOn7 · 18-01-2021 5:47pm

Nijmegen wrote: »

It's mad how unlikeable they made Will Bailey

He would be in my all time top 3 most unlikable TV characters ever

Maybe in the top 1 :pac:

As soon as I see him show up on re-watches I know the best seasons of the show are coming to a close

EverythingGood · 19-01-2021 7:56pm

I like Will Bailey, and think Josh Malina is brilliant! Toby is my all time fav character though, even if he got a BS ending.

lostcat · 20-01-2021 4:57pm

EverythingGood wrote: »

I like Will Bailey, and think Josh Malina is brilliant! Toby is my all time fav character though, even if he got a BS ending.

Will Bailey has a bit of the realpolitik about him which does jar somewhat with the shows overall thrust, but he is a 3d character at least.

Malina is good on the podcast. For anyone wondering, the podcast is well worth the effort, especially if you have already watched the show a couple of times. Not sure I'd have liked it as much if I was watching it in tandem with my first watching of the show.

BTW any Toby fans looking for another interesting Toby/Schiff interview should google the richard schiff episode of the '1000nos' podcast presented by West Wing latecomer Matthew del Negro.

BonnieSituation · 21-01-2021 9:10am

I'm sure all on this thread who saw Jen Psaki's first press conference last night got massive CJ Cregg vibes off it.

A breath of fresh air after th last 4 years of nonsense.

conor_ie · 21-01-2021 3:32pm

lostcat wrote: »

BTW any Toby fans looking for another interesting Toby/Schiff interview should google the richard schiff episode of the '1000nos' podcast presented by West Wing latecomer Matthew del Negro.

Listened to this on my walk this morning, I enjoyed it!

ShineOn7 · 22-01-2021 10:23pm

I'm upto Season 5, Episode 2

If memory serves, it's the episodes after

Zoe is rescued from her kidnappers

that are the real dregs of Season 5 to get through? The ones where Bartlett and his family retreat to the Manchester house

I'm reading here that it left Netflix in the States on Christmas Eve to move to HBO Max

HBO is a much more fitting platform for a show of this kind of pedigree

bnt · 23-01-2021 2:52pm

Honestly, I think people overstate the problems with Season 5. It has some bits I don't like, such as

the way Toby goes off the rails a bit after Will becomes the VP's Chief of Staff

. Episodes such as Han didn't do anything for me. With Slow News Day I see what they were aiming at, but the execution wasn't the best. But it also has some excellent storylines, such as

the Federal government shutdown

and

the Supreme Court nominations

.

Nijmegen · 23-01-2021 7:25pm

bnt wrote: »

Honestly, I think people overstate the problems with Season 5. It has some bits I don't like, such as
the way Toby goes off the rails a bit after Will becomes the VP's Chief of Staff
. Episodes such as Han didn't do anything for me. With Slow News Day I see what they were aiming at, but the execution wasn't the best. But it also has some excellent storylines, such as
the Federal government shutdown
and
the Supreme Court nominations
.

In 20something episodes, it has a handful of good ones and the rest are a slog to be honest. Also some of the style decisions changed notably after Sorkin... When the government shuts down and there's a "Dun.... DUN.... DUN" ending to the episode, it's all a bit eye roll. The weird drop in characters like Toby's one-time assistant in the short dresses (not called Monica, I'm sure) that went nowhere.

Season 6 picks up tremendously.

The West Wing *Spoilers*

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The West Wing Spoilers