Political Parties to Solve The Housing Crisis?

terrydel · 13-05-2019 2:55pm #1

Assetbacked wrote: »

Some long and detailed reading on the so-called vulture funds, the Irish commercial property sector and s110 vehicles;

https://thepropertypin.com/t/dublin-office-bubble-fg-landlord-nirvana-iref-qiaifs-reits/48705
https://thepropertypin.com/t/irish-section-110-spv-vultures-tax-haven-orphaning-scam/48520

Very well put together - will rile landlords and tenants both!

Yet another government instituted transfer of vast wealth from the citizens of Ireland to the private sector. Unbelievable how this is tolerated by the electorate. They must laugh their cocks off at the stupidity of the voters who bend over for this.

terrydel · 13-05-2019 2:56pm

optogirl wrote: »

I can't even click. I am so dejected by the whole bloody thing. Goalposts just keep shifting and rent keeps going up.:(

Start by not voting fg. Thats step one to resolving the problem.

MayoSalmon · 13-05-2019 3:06pm

terrydel wrote: »

Start by not voting fg. Thats step one to resolving the problem.

Politicians FG or otherwise haven't a clue how to solve this honestly

beauf · 13-05-2019 3:24pm

The only way to solve this is slow down the economy, for sustainable growth. No politician wants to take that on.

machalla · 13-05-2019 3:33pm

MayoSalmon wrote: »

Politicians FG or otherwise haven't a clue how to solve this honestly

They certainly all seem to have a handle on how to make it worse though judging by the populist policies the current Dáil as a whole has pursued

Bob24 · 13-05-2019 3:48pm

terrydel wrote: »

Start by not voting fg. Thats step one to resolving the problem.

I’m certainly not delighted with FG’s housing policies, but quite frankly I don’t see good policies form any other party. So I don’t think voting for FG or not makes the slightest difference in terms of solving the housing crises.

Mickiemcfist · 13-05-2019 3:51pm

Bob24 wrote: »

I’m certainly not delighted with FG’s housing policies, but quite frankly I don’t see good policies form any other party. So I don’t think voting for FG or not makes the slightest difference in terms of solving the housing crises.

Yea I agree, I really want to vote for someone else, but I don't want to vote for any of the other options. FF are basically the same thing & anyone outside of that are a rabble with half thought out ideals with no notion of actually gaining power.

terrydel · 13-05-2019 3:58pm

MayoSalmon wrote: »

Politicians FG or otherwise haven't a clue how to solve this honestly

But fg are knowingly and deliberately engineering the current situation.

terrydel · 13-05-2019 3:59pm

Bob24 wrote: »

I’m certainly not delighted with FG’s housing policies, but quite frankly I don’t see good policies form any other party. So I don’t think voting for FG or not makes the slightest difference in terms of solving the housing crises.

You are joking right?
Their policies have this as a goal.

terrydel · 13-05-2019 4:01pm

Mickiemcfist wrote: »

Yea I agree, I really want to vote for someone else, but I don't want to vote for any of the other options. FF are basically the same thing & anyone outside of that are a rabble with half thought out ideals with no notion of actually gaining power.

What utterly staggering logic.
You want things to change but will continue to vote for the same way and pray for a different outcome.
Wow.

Mickiemcfist · 13-05-2019 4:10pm

terrydel wrote: »

What utterly staggering logic.
You want things to change but will continue to vote for the same way and pray for a different outcome.
Wow.

Utterly staggering conclusion jumping there batman. I haven't made up my mind as to who I'll be voting for & I never indicated above who I would be voting for? I said I don't want either which if anything would imply I won't be voting.

terrydel · 13-05-2019 4:14pm

Mickiemcfist wrote: »

Utterly staggering conclusion jumping there batman. I haven't made up my mind as to who I'll be voting for & I never indicated above who I would be voting for? I said I don't want either which if anything would imply I won't be voting.

You really want to vote for someone else, so do it.

Mickiemcfist · 13-05-2019 4:15pm

terrydel wrote: »

You really want to vote for someone else, so do it.

Thanks for your advice mate, never thought of that :rolleyes:

voluntary · 13-05-2019 4:21pm

terrydel wrote: »

What utterly staggering logic.
You want things to change but will continue to vote for the same way and pray for a different outcome.
Wow.

Change for the sake of a change? Even if all other available options would be worse?

terrydel · 13-05-2019 4:27pm

Mickiemcfist wrote: »

Thanks for your advice mate, never thought of that :rolleyes:

Clearly.

terrydel · 13-05-2019 4:33pm

voluntary wrote: »

Change for the sake of a change? Even if all other available options would be worse?

If you are not happy with the current situation and want it changed, how will doing the same thing make that happen?
FG/FF have held power since the formation of the state, whatever way the state is is of their making.
How do you KNOW other options are worse when they are never given a chance to prove that one way or the other? Its purely theoretical if the idea is never tested.
We know what fg/ff give us, the former have given us this current housing situation by design, its in their power to fix it or at least improve it and they choose not to.
Its change in order to give someone who actually wants the current status quo to change, a chance, because the current incumbents do not want it to change.

Mickiemcfist · 13-05-2019 4:41pm

terrydel wrote: »

If you are not happy with the current situation and want it changed, how will doing the same thing make that happen?
FG/FF have held power since the formation of the state, whatever way the state is is of their making.
How do you KNOW other options are worse when they are never given a chance to prove that one way or the other? Its purely theoretical if the idea is never tested.
We know what fg/ff give us, the former have given us this current housing situation by design, its in their power to fix it or at least improve it and they choose not to.
Its change in order to give someone who actually wants the current status quo to change, a chance, because the current incumbents do not want it to change.

How do we know a monkey with a pet labrador is a worse option than FG/FF if they haven't been given a chance to prove that one way or the other?

It's called using your judgement, the information we have available to us shows that other parties have very little in the way of a coherent, comprehensive plan to run the country. When a challenging party can come up with one, they'll get my vote. Otherwise, I'll vote for the least worst option.

voluntary · 13-05-2019 4:47pm

terrydel wrote: »

If you are not happy with the current situation and want it changed, how will doing the same thing make that happen?
FG/FF have held power since the formation of the state, whatever way the state is is of their making.
How do you KNOW other options are worse when they are never given a chance to prove that one way or the other? Its purely theoretical if the idea is never tested.
We know what fg/ff give us, the former have given us this current housing situation by design, its in their power to fix it or at least improve it and they choose not to.
Its change in order to give someone who actually wants the current status quo to change, a chance, because the current incumbents do not want it to change.

Both far left and far right have been tested all over the world on so many many occassions. They always fail causing huge pain and misery. I'll just say: No, thank you.

Jaster Rogue · 13-05-2019 4:48pm

The alternative parties to FF/FG have even more wacky housing policies imo, such as everyone deserving a free house any location/size they want without contributing a cent, working/paying for the same house is optional.

voluntary · 13-05-2019 4:50pm

beauf wrote: »

The only way to solve this is slow down the economy, for sustainable growth. No politician wants to take that on.

Looking at what's been going on in the global markets in the last week or so I can only guess a massive slowdown is approaching right when we speak. Be careful what you wish for.

Mad_maxx · 13-05-2019 6:17pm

voluntary wrote: »

Looking at what's been going on in the global markets in the last week or so I can only guess a massive slowdown is approaching right when we speak. Be careful what you wish for.

The markets went too far too quickly, plus trump shoots his mouth off on twitter every few days and panic spreads

IAmTheReign · 14-05-2019 11:57am

terrydel wrote: »

But fg are knowingly and deliberately engineering the current situation.

I'm genuinely curious, which FG policies do you think are deliberately aimed at knowingly and deliberately restricting housing supply? And to what end exactly?

Sheeps · 14-05-2019 7:50pm

IAmTheReign wrote: »

I'm genuinely curious, which FG policies do you think are deliberately aimed at knowingly and deliberately restricting housing supply? And to what end exactly?

Every expert under the sun is telling them to build social houses instead of buying and renting from the private market, and they're insisting on leaving the market to do what it wants. There's no other explaination for that other than that they want it to be this way. I don't believe they are incompetent to this extent.

Sheeps · 14-05-2019 7:52pm

Jaster Rogue wrote: »

The alternative parties to FF/FG have even more wacky housing policies imo, such as everyone deserving a free house any location/size they want without contributing a cent, working/paying for the same house is optional.

This is not the way it works and you know it. The only difference between private and public housing is that with public hosing the state is your landlord, and they don't rip you off.

Amirani · 14-05-2019 8:32pm

Sheeps wrote: »

Every expert under the sun is telling them to build social houses instead of buying and renting from the private market, and they're insisting on leaving the market to do what it wants. There's no other explaination for that other than that they want it to be this way. I don't believe they are incompetent to this extent.

Much of the electorate don't want to pay the taxation necessary to fund a large scale expansion of social housing provision. And of the proportion of the electorate that do, many of them wouldn't vote for Fine Gael anyway.

Bluefoam · 14-05-2019 8:33pm

Sheeps wrote: »

This is not the way it works and you know it. The only difference between private and public housing is that with public hosing the state is your landlord, and they don't rip you off.

The state is your landlord... they subsidise you... which means the tax payer pays for you... which means the person who is paying for their own home is also paying for yours... is that what you mean by not getting ripped off?

Mad_maxx · 14-05-2019 9:29pm

Sheeps wrote: »

Every expert under the sun is telling them to build social houses instead of buying and renting from the private market, and they're insisting on leaving the market to do what it wants. There's no other explaination for that other than that they want it to be this way. I don't believe they are incompetent to this extent.

Which " experts"?

Mad_maxx · 14-05-2019 9:30pm

Bluefoam wrote: »

The state is your landlord... they subsidise you... which means the tax payer pays for you... which means the person who is paying for their own home is also paying for yours... is that what you mean by not getting ripped off?

30% of social housing tenants are in arrears despite the very modest rent, the local authorities have little interest in the property game, no one is evicted and maintainence us a black hole

Sheeps · 14-05-2019 9:36pm

Amirani wrote: »

Much of the electorate don't want to pay the taxation necessary to fund a large scale expansion of social housing provision. And of the proportion of the electorate that do, many of them wouldn't vote for Fine Gael anyway.

They're already paying the taxation necessary the only difference is they're getting terrible value for money because it's going to private landlords who are ripping the state off through the HAP scheme. If you invest in social housing, the money doesn't disappear. The state owns the house and has a valuable asset. It's literally an investment for the state.

Sheeps · 14-05-2019 9:36pm

Bluefoam wrote: »

The state is your landlord... they subsidise you... which means the tax payer pays for you... which means the person who is paying for their own home is also paying for yours... is that what you mean by not getting ripped off?

Paying a non crippling rent isn't a subsidy.

Amirani · 14-05-2019 9:42pm

Sheeps wrote: »

They're already paying the taxation necessary the only difference is they're getting terrible value for money because it's going to private landlords who are ripping the state off through the HAP scheme. If you invest in social housing, the money doesn't disappear. The state owns the house and has a valuable asset. It's literally an investment for the state.

Building the number of social houses necessary to house everyone on HAP would require either a large increase in taxation right now, or a significant amount of borrowing. HAP at the moment costs far less in the short-term than such a building program, though would likely be more expensive over the long term. But rental costs will not stay at the current high level forever.

Only the biggest ideologues would have suggested a mass building of social housing in 2012 instead of Government-subsided rent: https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/itll-take-us-43-years-to-fill-all-empty-houses-26863864.html

Graham · 14-05-2019 9:47pm

Mod Note

Thread split.

Samuel T. Cogley · 14-05-2019 9:53pm

Sheeps wrote: »

Paying a non crippling rent isn't a subsidy.

No, but paying less than it costs to build and maintain the property is. Are you suggesting that social housing is breaking even / making a profit?

Twenty Grand · 14-05-2019 9:57pm

Amirani wrote: »

Only the biggest ideologues would have suggested a mass building of social housing in 2012 instead of Government-subsided rent: https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/itll-take-us-43-years-to-fill-all-empty-houses-26863864.html

I'd say that another report would show much the same.
Probably worse in plenty rural areas.
Huge movement of people from countryside to town. Had to happen since so many local factories closed.

Had a quick look on Daft.

There's 3 times more property for sale per person in Donegal than Kildare.
Twice as much as Louth.

Bob24 · 14-05-2019 10:17pm

Bob24 wrote: »

I’m certainly not delighted with FG’s housing policies, but quite frankly I don’t see good policies form any other party. So I don’t think voting for FG or not makes the slightest difference in terms of solving the housing crises.

terrydel wrote: »

You are joking right?
Their policies have this as a goal.

A housing crisis as a goal? No matter how I disagree with them I think not. Some of their policies do make things worse as a side effect and I am certainly not excusing that, but accusing them of having the housing crisis as a *goal*??!!

Plus as I said, I don't see anything good coming from other parties either.

Bluefoam · 14-05-2019 10:21pm

Sheeps wrote: »

Bluefoam wrote: »

The state is your landlord... they subsidise you... which means the tax payer pays for you... which means the person who is paying for their own home is also paying for yours... is that what you mean by not getting ripped off?

Paying a non crippling rent isn't a subsidy.

It literally is... If someone else is paying the balance so you can have what you consider a non-crippling rent it is genuinely a subsidy. That's what subsidy means.

Sheeps · 14-05-2019 10:33pm

Bluefoam wrote: »

It literally is... If someone else is paying the balance so you can have what you consider a non-crippling rent it is genuinely a subsidy. That's what subsidy means.

It literally isn't a subsidy. It's charging a fare rate for a public service. Your role as tax payer is the equivillent of a share holder. It's not a subsidy. Hap is literally a subsidy.

Wheeliebin30 · 14-05-2019 10:37pm

This nonsense again.

When will you learn most people don’t want to fund the free house brigade who end up causing havoc in general society when they get their house.

People have had enough of spongers and leeches.

Sheeps · 14-05-2019 10:41pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

This nonsense again.

When will you learn most people don’t want to fund the free house brigade who end up causing havoc in general society when they get their house.

People have had enough of spongers and leeches.

What an absolutely worthless and pathetic point of view you have.

Graham · 14-05-2019 10:46pm

Mod Note

quit the personal digs and sweeping generalisations about social welfare tenants.

amcalester · 14-05-2019 10:48pm

Sheeps wrote: »

What an absolutely worthless and pathetic point of view you have.

He’s right though.

All the noise created by the media about the housing shortage isn’t translating into votes for the left because most people don’t care enough.

All the people on the M50 at 7AM aren’t going vote in higher taxes to pay for Margaret Cash’s 5 bedroom house.

Sheeps · 14-05-2019 10:53pm

Realistically you can't have a serious discussion with anyone who holds some of the most vulnerable people in society with such contempt, even so when it concerns their most basic need, a roof over their head. Forget it, I'm out.

Amirani · 14-05-2019 11:00pm

Sheeps wrote: »

Realistically you can't have a serious discussion with anyone who holds some of the most vulnerable people in society with such contempt, even so when it concerns their most basic need, a roof over their head. Forget it, I'm out.

Be at as it may, it's the political reality. Willfully ignoring it by putting your head in the sand isn't going to make it go away. Fine Gael's potential voting base by and large don't want significant increases in taxation to fund a large expansion of social housing. FG are currently the most popular party, so it's not exactly a fringe view.

Maurice Yeltsin · 14-05-2019 11:16pm

Not a single party, centre or left, is prepared to address the elephant in the room.

How in the jaysus does a country in the midst of its worst housing crisis since the 20's find itself in a position where the government is doling out social housing to refugees, from the social housing budget (not, as some have claimed, from an EU fund set up for the purpose), without not the opposition of but the actual support of the loudmoth lefties who bang on about the lack of both social and private rental the most?

The government is literally competing with first time buyers in some areas to acquire property for permanent use by incoming families. This isn't a tale off a taxi driver, it is in hard print, raised at council meetings, sourced from Rebuilding Ireland.

https://www.laoistoday.ie/2019/02/25/syrian-families-due-to-be-housed-in-laois-this-year/

I've said before that a second look should be taken at whether any, or at least, how much, social housing should be provided in BMW regions where the vast majority of even low earners should be able to get a mortgage and buy a home locally, but this is trickle down in action. Surely this money would be better spent providing social and affordable housing in the cities? Why is the government competing with first time buyers via acquisition for properties for newcomers? Why are we spending so much extra money keeping families in hotel rooms for longer when the house they should have been given goes to a newcomer?

Fact is, there isn't a party to raise this. Peter Casey is an incoherent buffoon. Gemma O'Doherty is certifiable. I don't know a great deal about Hermann Kelly but Frances Fitzgerald initiated this program and Andrews wife makes money off the asylum racket.

Surely now, at election time, someone should ask Frances Fitzgerald to explain this

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/no-housing-priority-for-asylum-seekers-says-justice-minister-fitzgerald-31162805.html

However, Minister Fitzgerald said there was “no question” of any Syrian family taken in by Ireland being “bumped to the top of the housing queue”.

“There’s no question of local authorities giving priority to any of the 210 new families we will be taking in,” she said.

“One of the initiatives we’re taking in relation to our new resettlement programme for Syrian refugees will be to focus on those who already have family members here - one of the key assessments will be how these families will be able to support those arriving.”

Adding: “The issue of housing is extremely complex, as we’ve currently people in Direct Provision, who at present, have been processed and are in need of housing.”

“However, there is no question of those exiting direct provisions, or just arriving here, jumping to the top of the queue.”

A person who bailed the EU out of a mess of Merkel's creation blatatly and deliberately lied.

Maurice Yeltsin · 14-05-2019 11:23pm

Or how many cases like this are we entertaining? Where the HAP payments are grossly disproportionate to the PAYE paid.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/former-homeless-apollo-house-residents-secure-home-1.3355298

koheim · 15-05-2019 12:10am

The main policy of FF and FG is to privatize services. Housing is for example now almost 100% privatized in Ireland, everything is being built by developers that then sells the houses back to the government. FF and FG believes this is the most effective way of supplying houses, so does the people voting for them.

But there are alternative housing policies:
https://www.labour.ie/download/pdf/affordable_housing_for_all_labour_housing_policy.pdf
https://www.sinnfein.ie/housing
https://www.socialdemocrats.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Soc-Dems-Housing-Policy-Document-AW-1-2.pdf

FG and FF will not solve the housing crises, but most people seems to be ok with that...

Wheeliebin30 · 15-05-2019 1:11am

koheim wrote: »

The main policy of FF and FG is to privatize services. Housing is for example now almost 100% privatized in Ireland, everything is being built by developers that then sells the houses back to the government. FF and FG believes this is the most effective way of supplying houses, so does the people voting for them.

But there are alternative housing policies:
https://www.labour.ie/download/pdf/affordable_housing_for_all_labour_housing_policy.pdf
https://www.sinnfein.ie/housing
https://www.socialdemocrats.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Soc-Dems-Housing-Policy-Document-AW-1-2.pdf

FG and FF will not solve the housing crises, but most people seems to be ok with that...

All about the €€€.

It’s just ain’t there to build 100s of thousands of houses for layabouts and people who expect it for nothing.

Sorry about that but that’s the cold hard facts.

overkill602 · 15-05-2019 7:41am

koheim wrote: »

The main policy of FF and FG is to privatize services. Housing is for example now almost 100% privatized in Ireland, everything is being built by developers that then sells the houses back to the government. FF and FG believes this is the most effective way of supplying houses, so does the people voting for them.

But there are alternative housing policies:
https://www.labour.ie/download/pdf/affordable_housing_for_all_labour_housing_policy.pdf
https://www.sinnfein.ie/housing
https://www.socialdemocrats.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Soc-Dems-Housing-Policy-Document-AW-1-2.pdf

FG and FF will not solve the housing crises, but most people seems to be ok with that...

If i was never going to contribute to the country and scrounge off those who pay taxes for the rest of my life i am ok with that and i would vote any of those alternatives.

Socialism works until it runs out of other peoples money...

if i am disabled/handicapped and genuinely cant work the other parties need to do more.

Samuel T. Cogley · 15-05-2019 7:46am

Sheeps wrote: »

It literally isn't a subsidy. It's charging a fare rate for a public service. Your role as tax payer is the equivillent of a share holder. It's not a subsidy. Hap is literally a subsidy.

How on earth do you equate being a shareholder, who is in it for profit to a taxpayer subsidising social housing?

Wheeliebin30 · 15-05-2019 8:38am

It’s alright lads soon we can all stop paying our mortgage thanks to Sinn Fein, wahey!!

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/dail-to-debate-sinn-fein-motion-on-putting-right-to-housing-in-constitution-924269.html?fbclid=IwAR06Bn_dTtWG9P7xu4sXLK4Af5zyijl4FxCoyAUtxx6JjFhnE4tQLzErHpgOh

A Sinn Féin private members motion, seeking a referendum to put the right to housing into the Constitution

Varik · 15-05-2019 8:45am

I'm pretty sure SF and Labour don't understand how constitutional rights work, they're about preventing infringement and not provision.

Political Parties to Solve The Housing Crisis?

Comments