Driving test - instructor's car at fault

2012paddy2012 · 07-04-2021 2:20pm #1

My 20 year old son did his test this morning. He failed it - unfortunately -

I am really annoyed about it - My son did 4 pre - test lessons.

This car is relatively new and has an "ECO Mode"
This "ECO" mode was not in use in the lessons prior to the test -The Instructor gave some but insufficient instruction as to how this works- In fact no instruction was given , only minimal , just before the test.

I think that a bit late in the day to be instructing a pupil , most understandably who , would be concentrating on the hour ahead -

As a consequence , when asked to do the reverse/three point turn , not being overly familiar , with the protocol ,the engine cut out (Eco Mode) he tried to get the engine started , and did after a minute - quite obviously , this incident wouldn't be a positive for candidate.

Bad enough as that is - this is shocking , in my opinion - at the start of the test - the usual routine , is to show the tester , where the oil / coolant - are and the levels etc - The tester asked my son about the engine coolant level - he pointed out to him that the engine coolant level should be between the "MIN" and "MAX" levels - however the level was below the minimum mark - He asked -" Do you feel safe driving this now"? what could my son say as he wanted to do the test - and he said "yeah"
In the car , again he mentioned about the coolant and to be sure the levels were as they should be after the test -

How in gods name is someone supposed to concentrate on a test with adverse comments like this ? before you head out on the road -? It knocked the young lads confidence .
There is a warning icon that comes up on the dash to indicate that "Engine Coolant "low" , this came on during the pre lesson before the test this morning - the instructor just said - " knock off the notification" - which you do with a steering wheel control button.

I would have thought that the instructor instead of saying that - should have said / directed to go to a service station to remedy the fault.
When the three point turn part of the test came to be , this fault again occurred and instead of observing it and having to cancel it again - that time would have been better spent just concentrating on the matter in hand.

100 euro pre test lesson wasted , as well as the fee for the car also ..

Any thoughts
Paddy

Tzardine · 07-04-2021 2:25pm

A lot of what you posted makes no sense.

What were the actual reasons for failing the test?

mloc123 · 07-04-2021 2:25pm

Surely part of driving, and life in general... is dealing with situations like this?

What did he fail on? One outright mark or a collection of smaller ones?

frozenfrozen · 07-04-2021 2:36pm

should be getting a refund for the pretest and use of the car. It wasn't ready for the test

terminator74 · 07-04-2021 2:40pm

There are so many things that can throw an applicant off on a test. These come in all shapes from weather, other drivers, the tester and the vehicle itself (even the COVID precautions now in place can be a little disconcerting and distracting). Its all part of dealing with the conditions and circumstances that present on the day.
While it is undoubtedly disappointing for your son and an expense to him/you, the responsibility for executing and dealing with the test is your son's. The tester was in his right to question as to the cars fitness for testing. One of the first things they will do is to ensure there are no issues or flashing lights on the dashboard. While the DI may have being more helpful in instructing on aspects of the vehicle, again, it is your sons responsibility to ensure he presents a road worthy car for testing.

He should put this down to experience, learn and ensure these issues don't arise again and have his own mechanisms for dealing with distractions.

best of luck to him the next time around. it might seem sore now but he'll benefit in the long run by not making those mistakes again

Hoboo · 07-04-2021 2:48pm

terminator74 wrote: »

The tester was in his right to question as to the cars fitness for testing. One of the first things they will do is to ensure there are no issues or flashing lights on the dashboard.

Is it normal/acceptable for a tester to knowingly conduct a test in a car that by his own admission wasn't fit for testing?

Also, "do you feel safe driving this now" is a subjective question, that depends on your appetite for risk. Surely better to ask, is the car roadworthy?

ohnonotgmail · 07-04-2021 2:53pm

Hoboo wrote: »

Is it normal/acceptable for a tester to knowingly conduct a test in a car that by his own admission wasn't fit for testing?

if the car isn't fit for testing it is an automatic fail. The tester gave them an opportunity to pass. the person to be pissed at is whoever the did the pre-test and whoever lent them the car.

2012paddy2012 · 07-04-2021 3:14pm

Tzardine wrote: »

A lot of what you posted makes no sense.

What were the actual reasons for failing the test?

Really ? Ok -

ohnonotgmail · 07-04-2021 3:17pm

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

Really ? Ok -

was the car owned by the instructor?

2012paddy2012 · 07-04-2021 3:20pm

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

My 20 year old son did his test this morning. He failed it - unfortunately -

I am really annoyed about it - My son did 4 pre - test lessons.

This car is relatively new and has an "ECO Mode"
This "ECO" mode was not in use in the lessons prior to the test -The Instructor gave some but insufficient instruction as to how this works- In fact no instruction was given , only minimal , just before the test.

I think that a bit late in the day to be instructing a pupil , most understandably who , would be concentrating on the hour ahead -

As a consequence , when asked to do the reverse/three point turn , not being overly familiar , with the protocol ,the engine cut out (Eco Mode) he tried to get the engine started , and did after a minute - quite obviously , this incident wouldn't be a positive for candidate.

Bad enough as that is - this is shocking , in my opinion - at the start of the test - the usual routine , is to show the tester , where the oil / coolant - are and the levels etc - The tester asked my son about the engine coolant level - he pointed out to him that the engine coolant level should be between the "MIN" and "MAX" levels - however the level was below the minimum mark - He asked -" Do you feel safe driving this now"? what could my son say as he wanted to do the test - and he said "yeah"
In the car , again he mentioned about the coolant and to be sure the levels were as they should be after the test -

How in gods name is someone supposed to concentrate on a test with adverse comments like this ? before you head out on the road -? It knocked the young lads confidence .
There is a warning icon that comes up on the dash to indicate that "Engine Coolant "low" , this came on during the pre lesson before the test this morning - the instructor just said - " knock off the notification" - which you do with a steering wheel control button.

I would have thought that the instructor instead of saying that - should have said / directed to go to a service station to remedy the fault.
When the three point turn part of the test came to be , this fault again occurred and instead of observing it and having to cancel it again - that time would have been better spent just concentrating on the matter in hand.

100 euro pre test lesson wasted , as well as the fee for the car also ..

Any thoughts
Paddy

Instructor in fairness agrees refund -
He thinks there was enough coolant - although level a little low of coolant -
Tester - noted the level and expressed concerns to the candidate- which then caused a bit of concern and interfered with his confidence - but stopped short of declaring it a “ safety “ issue for himself as he did the test -
I think that If the coolant was at betweeen max and min - there would have been no issue - fair play to instructor -
Tester should have kept his thoughts to himself - not to be knocking the confidence of the learner

Thanks all

2012paddy2012 · 07-04-2021 3:20pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

was the car owned by the instructor?

Yes

ohnonotgmail · 07-04-2021 3:21pm

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

Instructor in fairness agrees refund -
He thinks there was enough coolant - although level a little low of coolant -
Tester - noted the level and expressed concerns to the candidate- which then caused a bit of concern and interfered with his confidence - but stopped short of declaring it a “ safety “ issue for himself as he did the test -
I think that If the coolant was at betweeen max and min - there would have been no issue - fair play to instructor -
Tester should have kept his thoughts to himself - not to be knocking the confidence of the learner

Thanks all

do you think the tester should have ignored the "low coolant" warning that appeared twice during the test?

frozenfrozen · 07-04-2021 3:21pm

and I presume in eco mode every time it went into start-stop the coolant warning came up again? Nightmare for a test

ohnonotgmail · 07-04-2021 3:21pm

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

Yes

well then your sons issue is with the instructor not the examiner.

mickdw · 07-04-2021 3:30pm

Very shoddy by the hiring instructor.
I dont buy the bit about the eco system - did son not do lessons in the same car?
Coolant level should be right - instructor knows how fussy testers are about these checks - and there is the further problem of being very off putting.
Overall, a complete f*ckup but you can only go again.

Hoboo · 07-04-2021 7:35pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

if the car isn't fit for testing it is an automatic fail. The tester gave them an opportunity to pass. the person to be pissed at is whoever the did the pre-test and whoever lent them the car.

I agree. I'm questioning the testers competence.

Offering someone the chance to pass in a car that isn't fit for use further supports that.

If be pissed at whoever provided the car and pissed at the incompetent tester as well.

Aetherion · 08-04-2021 9:09am

as a parent you should really work on teaching your kid personal reasonability, I see this far too often where everyone blames everyone but the person responsible, you're not doing him any favors for blaming the tester, his car> his responsibility, if he can't make sure the car is fit for driving before a test of all things, then he is too irresponsible to be driving. Lashing out at the instructor for not babying an adult makes no sense.

frozenfrozen · 08-04-2021 9:12am

Aetherion wrote: »

as a parent you should really work on teaching your kid personal reasonability, I see this far too often where everyone blames everyone but the person responsible, you're not doing him any favors for blaming the tester, his car> his responsibility, if he can't make sure the car is fit for driving before a test of all things, then he is too irresponsible to be driving. Lashing out at the instructor for not babying an adult makes no sense.

The car was rented from the guy giving lessons to the OPs son who did the test

You should work on reading comprehension, I see this far too often

listermint · 08-04-2021 9:13am

Start stop technology doesn't work in reverse gear. Most eco modes are merely a downgrade on accelerator gas to keep Revs in a more linear increase than quick bursts which wastes fuel.

None of this should have impacted your son. There was nothing wrong with the car.

ohnonotgmail · 08-04-2021 9:17am

listermint wrote: »

Start stop technology doesn't work in reverse gear. Most eco modes are merely a downgrade on accelerator gas to keep Revs in a more linear increase than quick bursts which wastes fuel.

None of this should have impacted your son. There was nothing wrong with the car.

the coolant warning light went on twice during the test.

seamus · 08-04-2021 9:37am

"Knocking his confidence" is kind of part and parcel of the driving test. The instructor isn't there to make the candidate feel at ease. You could argue that there's no need for the test to be as stressful as it is, but there's the opposite argument that a candidate should be so well prepared that they can pass their driving test even when under pressure. Because on the road and in real life, they will have days where they are under pressure, and they should be able to continue driving safely on those days too.

I had a similar issue when I rented a motorbike for a test. It broke down halfway to the test; ran out of oil. Pain in the hole for me, and the driving school arranged and paid for a new test. There's no much else they can do.

Likewise in this case the school have agreed to refund. It's shoddy from them, I'd go with someone else in future.

I do sympathise with your son to an extent - driving an unfamiliar vehicle can be stressful for the first 30 minutes, doubly so if you're a novice driver, triply so if you then have to drive the vehicle in test conditions.

I know from first-hand experience that when you rent a car from a school, you don't get half an hour to look over and familiarise yourself with the vehicle. The instructor appears five minutes before your test, you go for a quick spin around the car park and then you're into the test centre. It is difficult.

But it's also the way that your son chose to do it. So he needs to accept that. He'll be more prepared the next time.

ohnonotgmail · 08-04-2021 9:39am

seamus wrote: »

"Knocking his confidence" is kind of part and parcel of the driving test. The instructor isn't there to make the candidate feel at ease. You could argue that there's no need for the test to be as stressful as it is, but there's the opposite argument that a candidate should be so well prepared that they can pass their driving test even when under pressure. Because on the road and in real life, they will have days where they are under pressure, and they should be able to continue driving safely on those days too.

I had a similar issue when I rented a motorbike for a test. It broke down halfway to the test; ran out of oil. Pain in the hole for me, and the driving school arranged and paid for a new test. There's no much else they can do.

Likewise in this case the school have agreed to refund. It's shoddy from them, I'd go with someone else in future.

I do sympathise with your son to an extent - driving an unfamiliar vehicle can be stressful for the first 30 minutes, doubly so if you're a novice driver, triply so if you then have to drive the vehicle in test conditions.

I know from first-hand experience that when you rent a car from a school, you don't get half an hour to look over and familiarise yourself with the vehicle. The instructor appears five minutes before your test, you go for a quick spin around the car park and then you're into the test centre. It is difficult.

But it's also the way that your son chose to do it. So he needs to accept that. He'll be more prepared the next time.

its the same when you hire a car normally. I usually spend the first 15 minutes figuring out where everything is.

Bass Reeves · 08-04-2021 9:44am

The first thing to remember OP is nobody has died. In this life you can spend your time looking at problems rather than solutions. Most modern cats have different warning lights your son was unlucky one came on. It may have been the coolant level it may have been an electrical fault.

The second part was eco mode. Yes the instructor should have given your son more training on it. However other pupils may have managed with what he showed them.

The driving test is hard to pass even though all of mine passed first time. I think that was mainly because they did the test in a family car and along with lessons they were able to drive it regularly when we were with them.

However your son may have failed anyway as he may have been nervous. He still have to redo the test no matter what you decide about the present instructor. It is pretty hard to get money out of small businesses like this as they generally cannot afford it. At this stage you can look at the solution or continue to look at the problem.

Solution 1 change instructors and try to recover costs from the instructor. This may mean a cost to the smalls claims court. A lot if time and energy may be wasted going this route.

Solution 2 speak to instructor express your concerns try to get a few free lessons for the retest. Move on in other words it's not the end of the world. Apply for new test and be getting on with it

PS I just saw that tester highlighted coolant levels.however solutions remain the same

grassylawn · 08-04-2021 9:52am

I was failed because the tester gave me a load of faults for driving at 30kmph through driving estates. He claimed I was driving at 20kmph, which I wasn't - and which still shouldn't have been grounds to fail someone. He wanted to go home early I suppose. My driving was much worse in the next test but I passed because I didn't get stupid penalties for appropriate care.

What did I do? Nothing. You might get a refund, but that's about it.

Your case isn't the same anyway because you don't get an exclusion on your licence for eco mode.

listermint · 08-04-2021 11:03am

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

the coolant warning light went on twice during the test.

That's fair. But it's not an NCT it wouldn't impact the test outside of awknowledging it happened. Actually it should stand to him in terms of awareness of he verbally points that out.

2012paddy2012 · 08-04-2021 9:05pm

Tzardine wrote: »

A lot of what you posted makes no sense.

What were the actual reasons for failing the test?

Couple of poor signals

2012paddy2012 · 08-04-2021 9:06pm

frozenfrozen wrote: »

should be getting a refund for the pretest and use of the car. It wasn't ready for the test

Only sensible and correct answer -
Refund received - thanks

2012paddy2012 · 08-04-2021 9:08pm

terminator74 wrote: »

There are so many things that can throw an applicant off on a test. These come in all shapes from weather, other drivers, the tester and the vehicle itself (even the COVID precautions now in place can be a little disconcerting and distracting). Its all part of dealing with the conditions and circumstances that present on the day.
While it is undoubtedly disappointing for your son and an expense to him/you, the responsibility for executing and dealing with the test is your son's. The tester was in his right to question as to the cars fitness for testing. One of the first things they will do is to ensure there are no issues or flashing lights on the dashboard. While the DI may have being more helpful in instructing on aspects of the vehicle, again, it is your sons responsibility to ensure he presents a road worthy car for testing.

He should put this down to experience, learn and ensure these issues don't arise again and have his own mechanisms for dealing with distractions.

best of luck to him the next time around. it might seem sore now but he'll benefit in the long run by not making those mistakes again

The issue of the tester asking my son if he felt safe to drive caused him unexpected and unnecessary distraction - the tester should have cancelled the test if he felt car was unsafe - or kept his opinion to himself - if he felt it was safe - he sat in it for 40 minutes -

2012paddy2012 · 08-04-2021 9:10pm

frozenfrozen wrote: »

and I presume in eco mode every time it went into start-stop the coolant warning came up again? Nightmare for a test

Your 100 per cent correct

ohnonotgmail · 08-04-2021 9:11pm

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

The issue of the tester asking my son if he felt safe to drive caused him unexpected and unnecessary distraction - the tester should have cancelled the test if he felt car was unsafe - or kept his opinion to himself - if he felt it was safe - he sat in it for 40 minutes -

it was a reasonable question. The question "is it safe" applies to the car not to the occupants. A car with low coolant is not a danger to passengers but it could be dangerous to the wellbeing of the car.

2012paddy2012 · 08-04-2021 9:11pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

well then your sons issue is with the instructor not the examiner.

With instructor I had issue with - he refunded - he said the tester was wrong and shouldn’t comment on things he has no knowledge about -

Driving test - instructor's car at fault

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