Nice article on the history of the Aer Lingus B747s

HTCOne · 25-04-2021 1:15pm

EchoIndia wrote: »

That rings a bell. I have my notes of that somewhere, flight number might have been EI4941 and IIRC on climbout from Dublin they estimated to make about FL190 by WAL and 290 by Dover. Pre-Swanwick, LATCC was at West Drayton, of course.

Always appreciate reading something that makes me feel young for a change! West Drayton indeed.

NickNickleby · 25-04-2021 1:32pm

NickNickleby wrote: »

Not sure how relevant to the thread this is, but the thread title immediately triggered a memory...

I somehow learned that Aer Lingus were taking delivery of a 747, so on the appointed day I cycled out to the airport, abandoned my wreck of a bicycle somewhere and went up on the roof of one of the buildings to watch it come in. I was a young teenager at the time, but cannot say what year it was. But I was thrilled to bits. Many years later, I got the opportunity to explore one in the hangar when all the seats were out. It felt like being in a football stadium.

despite the above, I'm in no way an aviation buff. Just got lucky twice ,

Just looked it up there, March 1971, I was 15, just before my Inter Cert.

duskyjoe2 · 25-04-2021 2:19pm

Astral Nav wrote: »

They had the original JT9D engines, never upgraded. .

they were allegedly on a small point and I need someone from the hangars to confirm. Allegedly EIN 747s used a hybrid engine in later years using core components from the 200 series in the hot section whilst obviously retaining the original 100 fan sections .... AL were the only operator to do this .... irrespective they still groaned but sitting in the cockpit with those Pratt’s at full chat was a sound to behold. Can some one confirm the above ?

Turbulent Bill · 26-04-2021 12:07am

I had the privilege of going to the cockpit of EI-ASI on a flight to JFK. Was only a kid (and an aviation nut), the crew were incredibly nice and it was a complete surprise for me. I remember being awe-struck by all the analogue dials and the glow of the sun through the (orange?) sun visors.

Will never forget it.

smurfjed · 29-04-2021 5:13am

Non-EI. We tried to replicate -100 takeoff / performance in a full flight simulator. We never managed to stop on the runway. As they were usually limited by the ALL ENGINE 115% takeoff distance, you would see them crawl off the end of performance limited runways, usually with the EGT of all 4 engines in the red, and the flight engine doing his best to control them. After that, a 300 fpm climb on all engine was usual.

Tried the same stunt in the -400 FFS, that thing was an absolute rocket and stopped on a dime.

Stovepipe · 29-04-2021 11:03am

They drank fuel and oil and leaked everywhere. first job on the turnaround was to open all four cowlings and let them cool down and then top up fluids.

Irish Steve · 29-04-2021 2:49pm

smurfjed wrote: »

Tried the same stunt in the -400 FFS, that thing was an absolute rocket and stopped on a dime.

Long time ago now, we "borrowed" a 747-400 sim for some research work, and during the session, decided that it would be "interesting" to try a landing at the famous Flight sim airstrip, Chicago Meigs. we did it with minimum fuel, and some of the SOP parameters were massaged a little, but we did get in and out again with the 400. The only things that got broken were some of the commercial rules about distances, and for sure we went over the fence a good bit lower that normal, on both the landing, and the departure.

They were fun sessions, and made a huge contribution to getting the flight model of the PC based system we were working on to more accurately work as a heavy jet should, rather than being a thinly disguised C182 that was made to look like a 747, which was the case for years with Flight Sim.

How times have changed!

jippo nolan · 29-04-2021 2:57pm

Stovepipe wrote: »

They drank fuel and oil and leaked everywhere. first job on the turnaround was to open all four cowlings and let them cool down and then top up fluids.

And the wheel wells reeked of Skydrol!

HTCOne · 29-04-2021 8:41pm

jippo nolan wrote: »

And the wheel wells reeked of Skydrol!

Wasn't there a storage area down there often used by EI Spanners to send their coffee machines down to Shannon to be repaired by the manufacturer? Fairly sure I read that elsewhere....it was called "the lower 45" or something.

Skyknight · 29-04-2021 10:00pm

HTCOne wrote: »

Wasn't there a storage area down there often used by EI Spanners to send their coffee machines down to Shannon to be repaired by the manufacturer? Fairly sure I read that elsewhere....it was called "the lower 45" or something.

It was 'The Lower 41' or the 'Hell Hole', and that was on the 720 and 707's (and the 1011's) Its a hatch in the floor of the cockpit, which allowed a member of the crew to climb down and check to ensure the nose gear was locked in the down position. You may have read about it in relation to the crash Eastern Airlines 401, as it was where the crew members were, discussing the position of the gear when the aircraft.

jippo nolan · 30-04-2021 12:27am

HTCOne wrote: »

Wasn't there a storage area down there often used by EI Spanners to send their coffee machines down to Shannon to be repaired by the manufacturer? Fairly sure I read that elsewhere....it was called "the lower 45" or something.

I think “Stovepipe” might be your source for that information!

NickNickleby · 30-04-2021 9:38am

Skyknight wrote: »

It was 'The Lower 41' or the 'Hell Hole', and that was on the 720 and 707's (and the 1011's) Its a hatch in the floor of the cockpit, which allowed a member of the crew to climb down and check to ensure the nose gear was locked in the down position. You may have read about it in relation to the crash Eastern Airlines 401, as it was where the crew members were, discussing the position of the gear when the aircraft.

Read a book about that crash. I think it was called "The Ghost of Flight 401". The description of the lead up to the crash and its immediate aftermath was (for a layman) very informative.

Henry Ford III · 30-04-2021 11:28am

Few shots of the AL 747's in this lovely old ad.

smurfjed · 30-04-2021 11:45am

Read about this again.

According to Robert J. Serling's 1980 book From the Captain to the Colonel: An Informal History of Eastern Airlines, the claim that wreckage from Flight 401 was installed and later removed from other Eastern aircraft was false, and no Eastern employees had ever claimed to have seen or believed in the alleged ghost sightings. Skeptic Brian Dunning claims that the origin for the ghost sightings was a joke made by an Eastern Air Lines captain after an emergency landing in which he quipped that he "thought [Don] Repo's ghost was on the plane."[22][24]

knockon · 30-04-2021 12:57pm

jippo nolan wrote: »

I think “Stovepipe” might be your source for that information!

We shipped a few items to Krups back in the day for guys in M & E. Electric razors etc. It was a great way of getting stuff from DUB - SNN and visa versa without the paperwork. Open the Lwr 41 door behind the NLG and throw in what you want.

Hotblack Desiato · 30-04-2021 1:12pm

Only the engineer was down there IIRC

The other two were preoccupied with the gear light to the extent of opening the panel to check the bulb filaments instead of flying the bloody plane

Skyknight · 30-04-2021 1:46pm

smurfjed wrote: »

The L1011 had a lower under floor galley, I believe that’s where the crew were when the aircraft crashed. I remember that the ghost was apparently seen by crew on other flights in that area.

knockon wrote: »

We shipped a few items to Krups back in the day for guys in M & E. Electric razors etc. It was a great way of getting stuff from DUB - SNN and visa versa without the paperwork. Open the Lwr 41 door behind the NLG and throw in what you want.

Oh right....so access to the Lower 41 could be made though the forward lounge...I always assumed it was an addition to the -200 to -400.

Stovepipe · 30-04-2021 2:18pm

If there are are no steps up to the aircraft, that how you get in. I've only ever used the one on a 747-400. The A330 has a similar hatch under the nose behind the radome but we never use it as the inner hatch and ladder are awkward to open and stow afterwards, but they are there. In the 330, the captain has to have his seat fully forward to allow the hatch to open fully.

jippo nolan · 30-04-2021 6:41pm

Stovepipe wrote: »

If there are are no steps up to the aircraft, that how you get in. I've only ever used the one on a 747-400. The A330 has a similar hatch under the nose behind the radome but we never use it as the inner hatch and ladder are awkward to open and stow afterwards, but they are there. In the 330, the captain has to have his seat fully forward to allow the hatch to open fully.

Stovepipe, you sound like you may have been there the day one of the Aer Lingus 747s ended up to it’s axles in the mud having blown off stand during a storm.
Major panic ensued, with engineering staff having to dig it out with the help of Two tugs.

HTCOne · 30-04-2021 8:11pm

There's a story of one getting stuck on the turn pad on the 06 end at SNN after landing. The fog was only a few feet off the ground and the crew were above it in sunlight but couldn't see the ground and couldn't risk going into the grass and getting stuck. Can't remember whether they had to wait for the fog to burn off or if a tug went to get them.

Stovepipe · 04-05-2021 8:43am

jippo nolan wrote: »

Stovepipe, you sound like you may have been there the day one of the Aer Lingus 747s ended up to it’s axles in the mud having blown off stand during a storm.
Major panic ensued, with engineering staff having to dig it out with the help of Two tugs.

Not present but heard the stories.

TDM900 · 09-05-2021 2:17pm

0lddog wrote: »

Pat, you gave me the idea to do a little search

First up from the search engine

https://ifiplayer.ie/radharc-blessing-the-aer-lingus-fleet/

Thanks for that link!

0lddog · 19-08-2021 5:53pm

For the life of me I cannot remember what this is

Anyone know ?

L1011 · 19-08-2021 9:56pm

EI-AKL Viscount St Colmcille I think.

0lddog · 19-08-2021 10:36pm

Viscount was my original assumption 'till I tried to count the engines

HTCOne · 20-08-2021 8:17am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117778395#Comment_117778395

You can just see a prop from #3 poking out below the nose. Angle of the photo makes it look like a twin.

L1011 · 20-08-2021 8:22am

You can also tell from the position of the more obviously visible ones that they aren't symmetrical so there would have to be four.

Hotblack Desiato · 20-08-2021 12:47pm

Here's EI-AKL in the earlier 'green top' livery:

https://www.airteamimages.com/vickers-viscount_EI-AKL_aer-lingus_289141.html

This one shows the arrangement of the engines better. By modern turboprop standards, the props are quite small and the engines are almost as close in to the fuselage as they can get.

0lddog · 20-08-2021 6:27pm

Thanks all.

Hotblack's pics show just how inboard the inboard engines are/were

Nice article on the history of the Aer Lingus B747s

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