Choosing careers with very limited potential

mariaalice · 18-04-2021 8:58pm

floorpie wrote: »

At any age? Not true in my experience.

In the short/medium term yeah, but over the long term economies change and industries with it. E.g. workers in the construction sector had good earnings before 2008 and by 2018, 50% had emigrated or changed industry.

Current example, banking sector right now. Will the 60 year olds that took redundancy last year waltz into similarly paying positions, when the industry itself is changing, and half a million people are on the live register/PUP? No.

Maybe I'm overly cautious but I've seen enough over the years to believe that you can't really gauge career earnings based on current salary, things change, sometimes drastically.

All kinds of things happen over a lifetime no one should be basing their life at say 30 on whether they may be unemployed at 60, at 60 they will most like have no mortgage, maybe modestly well off, might be a company director, may have a completely different job than the one they had at 30. There are no guarantees in life and trying to cover every base does not work.

With a few exception if they are in a mid-ranking job, they generally have the skills and education to work somewhere else for a while if its not great here, my husband went to London for a while.

No one can sort out their life to the extent you want.

Montage of Feck · 18-04-2021 9:01pm

The Garda have a very clear career progression. You can go from regular cop to commissioner and if your really inept you may even make it to interpol or the UN.

18-04-2021 9:02pm

Montage of Feck wrote: »

The Garda have a very clear career progression. You can go from regular cop to commissioner and if your really inept you may even make it to interpol or the UN.

Jealous much

mariaalice · 18-04-2021 9:06pm

Montage of Feck wrote: »

The Garda have a very clear career progression. You can go from regular cop to commissioner and if your really inept you may even make it to interpol or the UN.

And in today society all without ever having to do a day's further study after they join?

They get promoted just like that no effort required?

Duck duck Graham · 18-04-2021 9:26pm

So I take it trade work like plumbing & electrical is a **** career with no pension? Can make great money i know people who take home just under 1k a week & if wanted to make a bit more on side can do nixers.

Work isnt stressful , no 12 hour shifts or weekend work finish work by 4pm & half day Friday dont bring work home with you or worry about project/ deadlines

Cherry Blossom · 18-04-2021 9:28pm

My aunt worked in IT for 30 years, 15 of those at senior management level. When she finally packed it in she’d been seeing therapists for 5 years and had a constructive dismissal case against her employer which was successful. She was a burnt out wreck. She sold her house in London and moved home to Ireland and got a job as a part time, seasonal tour guide. She loves her life now, her only regret is not doing it sooner. There is definitely more to life than money. I have had mental health struggles too. So long as I have an understanding employer and am able to pay my rent and living expenses I’m happy. I certainly don’t want a high flying, stressful job. My health and mental well-being are much more important.

Montage of Feck · 18-04-2021 9:48pm

bubblypop wrote: »

Jealous much

Jealous of what? Was only responding to the OP statement that as a career it had little in the way of progression.

antimatterx · 18-04-2021 9:50pm

I chose software development for the money and earnings potential.

I'm 2.5 years in and making 50K. It's not great, but it's well ahead of most of my pears.

Money and career is hugely important, regardless of what people say.

Cyrus · 18-04-2021 10:13pm

floorpie wrote: »

At any age? Not true in my experience.

In the short/medium term yeah, but over the long term economies change and industries with it. E.g. workers in the construction sector had good earnings before 2008 and by 2018, 50% had emigrated or changed industry.

Current example, banking sector right now. Will the 60 year olds that took redundancy last year waltz into similarly paying positions, when the industry itself is changing, and half a million people are on the live register/PUP? No.

Maybe I'm overly cautious but I've seen enough over the years to believe that you can't really gauge career earnings based on current salary, things change, sometimes drastically.

I’d imagine most 60 year olds taking redundancy are taking early retirement so it’s not a great analogy.

floorpie · 18-04-2021 11:21pm

Cyrus wrote: »

I’d imagine most 60 year olds taking redundancy are taking early retirement so it’s not a great analogy.

Ok maybe not a great analogy. 55 year olds though? Or ignore age, BOI are cutting 1500 jobs, AIB cutting 1500, PTSB cutting 300, Ulster Bank have pulled out, KBC have pulled out. 100s of branches closing, all happening in the same period. Can all of these people just go and get another job in the banking industry? No, the industry has changed.

Some portion will stay in banking, some will retrain, some will emigrate, some will change industry. Of the people who retrain or change industry, they wont keep the same salary that they had before. The central bank says we're about to have 100k permanent job losses because of Covid, so some portion who take redundancy will be f'd until economic normality resumes. 1 year? 3? Who knows.

So maybe all you guys are very lucky but my industry was affected similarly to this by both the Dotcom Bubble and the Great Recession. I know many competent people who were out of work in both instances. You couldn't pay me any amount of money to be in the areas right now that OP says are attractive for salary, banking, sales, etc

19-04-2021 8:26am

floorpie wrote: »

Ok maybe not a great analogy. 55 year olds though? Or ignore age, BOI are cutting 1500 jobs, AIB cutting 1500, PTSB cutting 300, Ulster Bank have pulled out, KBC have pulled out. 100s of branches closing, all happening in the same period. Can all of these people just go and get another job in the banking industry? No, the industry has changed.

Some portion will stay in banking, some will retrain, some will emigrate, some will change industry. Of the people who retrain or change industry, they wont keep the same salary that they had before. The central bank says we're about to have 100k permanent job losses because of Covid, so some portion who take redundancy will be f'd until economic normality resumes. 1 year? 3? Who knows.

So maybe all you guys are very lucky but my industry was affected similarly to this by both the Dotcom Bubble and the Great Recession. I know many competent people who were out of work in both instances. You couldn't pay me any amount of money to be in the areas right now that OP says are attractive for salary, banking, sales, etc

I work in a bank but you're spot on. People have short memories and consider what is the status quo now to alway be the case.

You can see it in comments about how when you're 55/60 year old, you won't have a mortgage and will have amassed wealth at that stage. This is all based on the current generation of 60+ year olds. Nowadays so many people in their mid 30s cannot afford a house - they're not guaranteed to be mortgage-free at 55 by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, there'll be plenty with substantial mortgages. And with automation and AI - the future looks a lot less certain in the jobs market than for previous generations too. Teaching or the guards is a really safe, secure job - banking etc is certainly not.

Cyrus · 19-04-2021 11:14am

floorpie wrote: »

Ok maybe not a great analogy. 55 year olds though? Or ignore age, BOI are cutting 1500 jobs, AIB cutting 1500, PTSB cutting 300, Ulster Bank have pulled out, KBC have pulled out. 100s of branches closing, all happening in the same period. Can all of these people just go and get another job in the banking industry? No, the industry has changed.

Some portion will stay in banking, some will retrain, some will emigrate, some will change industry. Of the people who retrain or change industry, they wont keep the same salary that they had before. The central bank says we're about to have 100k permanent job losses because of Covid, so some portion who take redundancy will be f'd until economic normality resumes. 1 year? 3? Who knows.

So maybe all you guys are very lucky but my industry was affected similarly to this by both the Dotcom Bubble and the Great Recession. I know many competent people who were out of work in both instances. You couldn't pay me any amount of money to be in the areas right now that OP says are attractive for salary, banking, sales, etc

we could argue this back and forth all day, but the people losing jobs in branches arent on big money, so if they retrain there is every chance they will get a similar salary somewher else.

The higher paid people in the head offices that take redundancy will have transferrable skills. If you work in HR, finance, legal you arent confined to working in financial services.

If the reason for taking a job is that it will exist in 50 years time i cant really get on board with that.

floorpie · 19-04-2021 11:27am

Student_111 wrote: »

I work in a bank but you're spot on. People have short memories and consider what is the status quo now to alway be the case.

You can see it in comments about how when you're 55/60 year old, you won't have a mortgage and will have amassed wealth at that stage. This is all based on the current generation of 60+ year olds. Nowadays so many people in their mid 30s cannot afford a house - they're not guaranteed to be mortgage-free at 55 by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, there'll be plenty with substantial mortgages. And with automation and AI - the future looks a lot less certain in the jobs market than for previous generations too. Teaching or the guards is a really safe, secure job - banking etc is certainly not.

All very true for the current generation.

Regarding people at retirement age now, 30% have no pension, and this is in boom years. It was <50% from 2008-2018. Most of these people have no plan except to rely on the state pension (their partner has no pension either, and no savings). So these people likely aren't retiring until 67/68. So I'm not sure to what extent current retirees in Ireland have amassed wealth. Sales (that OP mentions) in particular has the lowest rates of occupational pension.

So with regard to OP and the "virtually unlimited possibilities"...very few combined household incomes in Ireland are >150K. I don't buy it that these virtually unlimited possibilities exist. I think that over the medium/long term, transient, reasonable, limited possibilities exist in the private sectors you mention, but they never stay. Not for any industry. The risks to total career earnings are way higher, imo, than the careers you say have limited potential.

Cyrus wrote: »

arent on big money

What's big money to you?

The higher paid people in the head offices that take redundancy will have transferrable skills. If you work in HR, finance, legal you arent confined to working in financial services.

Right, for sure, but in the black swan events after which e.g. people in legal need to change industry, competition is high and your next salary will be lower than before. This isn't a hypothetical, we've just come out of 10 years of this dynamic post-2008 (look at household earnings for the period) and we're currently starting to go through another just a few years later.

If the reason for taking a job is that it will exist in 50 years time i cant really get on board with that.

I don't expect all jobs to exist forever, I'm just saying that a reasonable consistent income can beat a transient large income in terms of total career earnings, and over the long term, private sector incomes tend to fluctuate. Obviously a low salary will never beat a higher salary that rises monotonically until retirement, but this isn't normal imo.

Duck duck Graham · 19-04-2021 7:31pm

floorpie wrote: »

All very true for the current generation.

What's big money to you

I would say a person on €100k thats not including what ever there other half brings in.
Plenty of people will never be even close to €100k and if you get a chance to get close to it would probably take 30 years of service to get to it. Then lose half of it on tax.

I can see plenty of people in there 20s & 30s leaving Ireland for a better lifestyle abroad Ireland is only going to get worse

Choosing careers with very limited potential

Comments