OK to open letter not addressed to me? (hand delivered)

disposableFish · 16-10-2019 4:03pm #1

I came home yesterday to find a letter dropped in my door that was addressed to a previous occupant (I recognise the name from pervious mail).

Normally I'd pop this into the postbox with *Not at this address* written on it but...

It wasn't posted, it was hand delivered and said "very urgent" on it.
There is no return address on the envelope.

Does the fact this wasn't posted change whether or not it's legal to open it?

sunny2004 · 16-10-2019 4:07pm

Why would you need to open it ? It's not for you.
If you think their might be contact details for the person who dropped it in, then let the post office open it and return it.

Kimbot · 16-10-2019 4:09pm

Its still mail, hand delivered or not and its not addressed to you so I would just leave it be. Or you could try and track the old tennant on FB or ask your landlord for their contact details to let them know it is there or give you permission to open it.

harr · 16-10-2019 4:11pm

sunny2004 wrote: »

Why would you need to open it ? It's not for you.
If you think their might be contact details for the person who dropped it in, then let the post office open it and return it.

Post office won’t want anything to do with it if it wasn’t posted ... don’t open it OP try get in contact with the person if possible.. social media is probably an option if you don’t have contact details. Why would feel the need to open it ? It’s obviously a personal letter if hand delivered.

_Brian · 16-10-2019 4:14pm

Just put it in recycling like we all do.

Mr. Incognito · 16-10-2019 4:17pm

If its urgent it will find its way to them

If its some twerp who marked it urgent it wont

Likely a demand for money from some vulture such as esb when the final bill wasnt paid

disposableFish · 16-10-2019 4:22pm

Point taken on not opening it.

Judging by the envelope etc. it's business/official in nature.
No landlord and this person wouldn't have lived here for at least 18 months (I don't even know if they were the most recent occupants)

Why do I care?
If a company took the time to hand deliver a letter then they're not going to let it drop and I don't want them banging down my door.
What I would like to do is let the company/whoever know that they have the wrong address.

TheBoyConor · 16-10-2019 4:25pm

Could always open it and then put it in a new envelope so that even if you do send it on to the new place they will not be sure that it was opened.

And anyway, what are they going to do? take you to court over a ripped envelope? lol. I've opened stuff several times for long gone tenants. It goes in the bin afterwards.

sunny2004 · 16-10-2019 4:27pm

harr wrote: »

Post office won’t want anything to do with it if it wasn’t posted ... don’t open it OP try get in contact with the person if possible.. social media is probably an option if you don’t have contact details. Why would feel the need to open it ? It’s obviously a personal letter if hand delivered.

They will open it and try and return it.

disposableFish · 16-10-2019 4:27pm

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Could always open it and then put it in a new envelope so that even if you do send it on to the new place they will not be sure that it was opened.

I'm not trying to get it to the person, I'm trying to get it back to the sender.

TheBoyConor wrote: »

I've opened stuff several times for long gone tenants. It goes in the bin afterwards.

I always try to get stuff returned - that way whoever sent it knows to stop sending stuff to this address.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 16-10-2019 4:29pm

Open it if you must. You can always claim it was opened in error, along with the rest of your post, as you hadn't looked at the addressed side.

Happened us years ago. It was from a solicitor and contained a cheque for a five figure sum as part of an inheritance. They were very glad we contacted them to say it wasn't for us.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 16-10-2019 4:30pm

sunny2004 wrote: »

They will open it and try and return it.

No they won't. It wasn't sent through An Post.

sunny2004 · 16-10-2019 4:32pm

Kelly Defeated Sampler wrote: »

No they won't. It wasn't sent through An Post.

You're incorrect. I'm speaking from experience. Put it back in the post box. The sorting office has a dedicated department for mail without addresses and a process they follow.

NotToScale · 16-10-2019 4:35pm

I wonder if it could possibly be form the local Catholic Church? I'm not Catholic and I often get letters from the local Church, hand delivered, and addressed to me, looking for donations.

No amount of telling them that I'm not one of their flock seems to cause them to update their list. I don't think it's malicious though, rather it's just a bunch of quite elderly people trying to manage a mailing list on paper.

It's possible they've the previous occupant's address on a list and often those letters can look fairly 'business like' on the outside.

There's absolutely no way of ascertaining who sent you that letter and I am not sure what the legal position is on opening an item like that if it's addressed to someone else.

If you're sticking to the letter of the law, just put it through the shredder as it's not your data, it's not post from the post office and you've no way of forwarding it.

Mail that's delivered to you by An Post can just be put back into any post box.
All you do is put a couple of lines through the address on the front and write "NOT KNOWN AT THIS ADDRESS - RETURN TO SENDER" but with a hand delivered note, not much you can do!

endacl · 16-10-2019 4:38pm

sunny2004 wrote: »

You're incorrect. I'm speaking from experience. Put it back in the post box. The sorting office has a dedicated department for mail without addresses and a process they follow.

Your not speaking from experience of reading the thread and understanding the problem though, are you...?

sunny2004 · 16-10-2019 4:41pm

endacl wrote: »

Your not speaking from experience of reading the thread and understanding the problem though, are you...?

I'm replying to the third line of the op first post.
Normally they would put it in the post box with not known at this address.

Try and keep up, or keep on banging those keys.

I'm trying to help.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 16-10-2019 5:02pm

sunny2004 wrote: »

I'm replying to the third line of the op first post.
Normally they would put it in the post box with not known at this address.

Try and keep up, or keep on banging those keys.
I'm trying to help.

No. This was hand delivered. An Post have no interest or part in it.

disposableFish · 16-10-2019 5:04pm

NotToScale wrote: »

I wonder if it could possibly be form the local Catholic Church? I'm not Catholic and I often get letters from the local Church, hand delivered, and addressed to me, looking for donations.

Ha!

I get those too, it's not one of those.

disposableFish · 16-10-2019 5:46pm

Out of curiosity (and because y'know, this is legal discussion), can someone point me to the relevant legislation?

Force Carrier · 16-10-2019 5:49pm

disposableFish wrote: »

Out of curiosity (and because y'know, this is legal discussion), can someone point me to the relevant legislation?

Think that covers it.

disposableFish · 16-10-2019 6:05pm

Force Carrier wrote: »

Think that covers it.

Interesting, on a quick reading it looks like it only applies to mail delivered by a "postal service". A "postal service" being a body that's registered with comreg to provide these services.

Could be a bit of a catch-22 here - how would you know that it wasn't delivered by one of these services without opening the letter?

my3cents · 16-10-2019 6:10pm

Kelly Defeated Sampler wrote: »

No. This was hand delivered. An Post have no interest or part in it.

Yeah its an SEP, Someone Elses Problem, until its not.

Stick it in the letter box and it becomes An Posts problem and they have a system for sorting the problem out.

Force Carrier · 16-10-2019 6:17pm

disposableFish wrote: »

Interesting, on a quick reading it looks like it only applies to mail delivered by a "postal service". A "postal service" being a body that's registered with comreg to provide these services.

Could be a bit of a catch-22 here - how would you know that it wasn't delivered by one of these services without opening the letter?

You're reading it wrong.

The bit about a postal worker is saying that it's an offence if a postal worker opens it for unauthorized reasons(contrary to duty). Because there are obviously circumstances when the postal service can open it.

So if you take that bit out

"A person commits an offence if he or she, without the agreement of the addressee and, in the case of a person who is a postal service provider or an employee or agent of a postal service provider, contrary to his or her duty, intentionally—..............interferes with or opens, a postal packet ........"

It's simply a postal packet. No stipulation on the manner or by whom it was dispatched.

disposableFish · 16-10-2019 6:26pm

Sorry, I probably should have given a more full reply.

“postal packet” means an item addressed in the final form in which it is to be carried by a postal service provider and includes a letter, parcel, packet or any other article transmissible by post;

L1011 · 16-10-2019 6:29pm

my3cents wrote: »

Yeah its an SEP, Someone Elses Problem, until its not.

Stick it in the letter box and it becomes An Posts problem and they have a system for sorting the problem out.

It's unstamped and has the OPs address on it. They'll just deliver it back to them with an underpaid postage sticker it they do anything at all

They are not in any way responsible here

jhegarty · 16-10-2019 6:33pm

Put a stamp on. Then post it. It get delivered to OP. Op then returns it as not know at this address.

Problem solved for the price of a stamp.

disposableFish · 16-10-2019 6:44pm

jhegarty wrote: »

Put a stamp on. Then post it. It get delivered to OP. Op then returns it as not know at this address.

Problem solved for the price of a stamp.

Wonderful solution.
That means that when it's returned they have the right/duty to open it?

Only issue could be that it says "by hand" on the envelope.

GM228 · 16-10-2019 7:01pm

Force Carrier wrote: »

You're reading it wrong.

The bit about a postal worker is saying that it's an offence if a postal worker opens it for unauthorized reasons(contrary to duty). Because there are obviously circumstances when the postal service can open it.

So if you take that bit out

"A person commits an offence if he or she, without the agreement of the addressee and, in the case of a person who is a postal service provider or an employee or agent of a postal service provider, contrary to his or her duty, intentionally—..............interferes with or opens, a postal packet ........"

It's simply a postal packet. No stipulation on the manner or by whom it was dispatched.

The part in bold is the important part:-

“postal packet” means an item addressed in the final form in which it is to be carried by a postal service provider and includes a letter, parcel, packet or any other article transmissible by post

The offence specifically applies to a postal packet sent via a postal service provider, i.e it must involve a letter which has gone through the clearance, sorting, transport and distribution process.

There is no offence relating to the opening of a letter which has not gone through a postal service provider such as hand delivered mail.

The only potential issue is for a claim of breach of privacy which is on the civil side, not criminal. Opening a letter not addressed to you is a breach of Article 8 of the ECHR irrespective of how it is sent/received, in the Narinan vs Finland [2004] 5027/98 case the ECtHR held the level of protection is very high and even opening one simple letter is a major breach as there is no de minimis principle for interference of the right to privacy to occur.

Bigus · 16-10-2019 7:37pm

Open it to facilitate returning it.

Victor · 16-10-2019 9:47pm

jhegarty wrote: »

Put a stamp on. Then post it. It get delivered to OP. Op then returns it as not know at this address.

Problem solved for the price of a stamp.

Put a stamp on. Squiggle on the stamp with black pen. Write "Person unknown. Return to sender." across it. Not your problem anymore.

disposableFish · 17-10-2019 4:12pm

Thanks GM228 for the thorough and interesting reply.

GM228 wrote: »

The only potential issue is for a claim of breach of privacy which is on the civil side, not criminal. Opening a letter not addressed to you is a breach of Article 8 of the ECHR irrespective of how it is sent/received, in the Narinan vs Finland [2004] 5027/98 case the ECtHR held the level of protection is very high and even opening one simple letter is a major breach as there is no de minimis principle for interference of the right to privacy to occur.

Would this be an issue for the person who opens the letter or for the government for failing to enact legislation to protect the addressee's rights?

NuttyMcNutty · 17-10-2019 4:47pm

Just open it ffs, I'm dying to know what's in it :pac:

FishOnABike · 17-10-2019 5:04pm

NuttyMcNutty wrote: »

Just open it ffs, I'm dying to know what's in it :pac:

Combination to a safe that OP found? ;-)))

disposableFish · 17-10-2019 5:06pm

NuttyMcNutty wrote: »

Just open it ffs, I'm dying to know what's in it :pac:

Ha! Unless it was something really, really boring I would never have posted it online.

As it happens it's a moot point. The sender called by again and I was talking to him.

I won't say what it was about, but I'm glad the letter wasn't for me.

Treppen · 17-10-2019 5:09pm

FishOnABike wrote: »

Combination to a safe that IP found? ;-)))

Here we go again

corks finest · 17-10-2019 5:47pm

No- never ever

OK to open letter not addressed to me? (hand delivered)

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