Irish being shoved down people's throats

Call me Al · 06-02-2017 5:09pm

I love Irish, more specifically I love spoken Irish. But I dislike that it is compulsory for LC ... and I say that with the belief that English shouldn't be compulsory for LC either. I think once you can read speak and construct a coherent essay there is no real need for detailed poetry prose etc.

Both should be optional unless maybe for primary teaching like some cao courses where science /honours maths/foreign language etc are a requirement for course content.

Gaoth Laidir · 06-02-2017 7:23pm

Cathellen wrote: »

Is breá liomsa freisin an Ghaeilge ...maybe students feel 'forced ' because it's the only compulsory subject ...is it not??

One of three...English and Maths being the other two.

Carlos Orange · 06-02-2017 7:45pm

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

One of three...English and Maths being the other two.

According to this written answer to the Dail in 2005 english and maths are optional in the leaving cert.

"In accordance with the rules and programme for secondary schools, the approved course for the established leaving certificate must include Irish and not less than four of the following examination subjects, all of which are optional: classical studies; ancient Greek; Latin; English; Hebrew studies; French; German; Italian; Spanish; history; geography; mathematics; applied mathematics; physics; chemistry; physics and chemistry; agricultural science; biology; agricultural economics; engineering; technical drawing; construction studies; home economics scientific and social; accounting; business; economics; art, including crafts; music; Russian; Arabic; Japanese; and religious education."

http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2005112900327?opendocument

Suckit · 08-02-2017 3:54am

Irish is definitely not compulsory, and realistically, has not been since the early 90's.
It was supposed to be, but it was not enforced. I know many people who did not take Irish for the leaving cert in the early 90's and i even know one person who was not allowed to be taught it their school.
When i sat my leaving cert in 1996 a lot of people in my year pointed to the above ('91 and '93 mainly) and were told it was compulsory, but they could opt out. Which still makes no sense, but it was possible.

Call me Al · 08-02-2017 8:45am

http://www.education.ie/en/Parents/Information/Irish-Exemption/Irish-Exemption.html

Compulsory, without an exemption, for admission to most 3rd level.. unless there are some exceptions?

CorkBrian · 10-02-2017 7:16pm

I'd like to see every primary school as a Gaelscoil.

It's been proved that learning a second language has a knock on effect for all other subjects (the top performing secondary schools in he country are largely Gaelscoileanna).

I'd love to see it taught properly from a young age - i.e. as a method of communication. Speak it, speak it, speak it!

I hated Irish in primary school, but after spending 2 summers down the Corca Dhuibhne Gaeltacht at the start of secondary school - where speaking it seemed secondary to having the craic and trying to get with girls - you didn't realise how fluent you were becoming.

Living through the language developed my grá for it, and its happening now with a lot of the younger generation.

Have it as an optional subject for Leaving Cert but emphasise it as a medium for learning at a young age and we'll reap the benefits.

sryanbruen · 10-02-2017 7:22pm

OSI wrote: »

Yes, I believe Trinity allows the substitution of a foreign language in place of Irish. The requirement is also dropped if you meet the same exemption criteria as school, ie came to the Ireland after your 13th birthday or something like that.

Also, my "learning issues" allows me to drop Irish if I wanted to and still go to college but for the sake of my love for the language, I am never going to drop it.

mrsherself · 04-07-2019 2:50pm

And here I am again, the OP, two years later! Haha! I still teach Irish. I've been teaching it for 10 years now, but I also teach English too.

It's an odd thing, that people think they use secondary school English to function in their everyday lives - it's often an argument put forward - that English and maths are "useful" but Irish is not.

Well I tell ya, reading poetry and writing stories doesn't help you with everyday life either!

I think my issue with people not liking Irish was the vitriol and the crazy expressions (shoving down throats) that came with it. I hated maths in school but I never had a passionate hatred, like some people do for Irish.

Anyhow, I am a lover of languages, big and small, and I'm a lover of Irish and everything in Ireland too, so on I go! Ní aontóidh chuile dhuine le mo thuairimí agus sin an saol..

Gaoth Laidir · 05-07-2019 8:33am

I agree that it's the curriculum that's the problem. I'm from the class of '92 but it sounds like the changes to date are not that significant. Still the literature, albeit with a slightly smaller overall mark. Irish is still being taught as a subject and not a language. That's the problem.

I failed Irish in '92, something I regret, but have since come back to become almost fluent, doing this in my own time and my own way, with not a poem or prose in sight. I've also learned 6 other languages in the meantime and am studying 3 more now. All without a poem or prose in sight.

I've used various means to learn these languages but the common theme is exposure to written and spoken forms. This has become easier with the technology, cheaper travel and our increasingly diverse population, but the key is still practice. This isn't something that seems to be the core characteristic of the current Irish curriculum, unfortunately.

I've recently started using the Duolingo app, by far the best app I've seen, and it offers Irish as one of its languages to learn. The app keeps referring to the fact that "there are more people learning Irish on Duolingo than there are native Irish speakers". True or not, it's food for thought. Irish may not be the most lucrative language for carving out a career, but it doesn't have to be. Learning a language - any language - develops skills that complement all those others that "useful" subjects teach us. It's our language and we should not lose it, but please teach it primarily as a spoken language and to hell with the curriculum. Have fun conversations with them in class. Talk shíte with them, have the "craic" with them, but through Irish. So what if everyone in your class fails the exam because they didn't do the poetry. Probably no big change there, but at least they'll be able to speak it and will have enjoyed the process too.

Irish being shoved down people's throats

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