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Mortgage with ex 12 years - Force the sale?

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  • 11-11-2018 11:29am
    #1
    frankiev
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭


    Hello

    I have been stuck on a mortgage with my ex partner for nearly 12 years. The only thing I am contributing is PRSI - I have no interest in the house financially. All I want to do is get off the mortgage. My ex is not forthcoming so I feel I am left with no choice but to force the sale of the house. He missed several payments and so that has stopped me getting a mortgage. I have two kiddos with special needs so its important for us to set up home in a permanent house. I am not looking for one penny, I would even pay for half the solicitors fee. Has anyone gone through forced sale? And what was the outcome


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    #2
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,676 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    I'm not clear how you think you have no interest financially.

    There is a debt that needs to be paid. You are as much liable for that debt as your ex-partner is, even though the terms of your separation seem to be that you pay very little towards it.

    If you force a sale, then you at least need to make sure that the sale price covers the outstanding debt.


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    #3
    frankiev
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭frankiev


    I think you misunderstand and I haven't given enough information. My ex partner has rented the house out for years. I am on it for no other reason than for him to wait until he has made enough money for profit and then he will sell, meanwhile I cannot get my own mortgage because he missed a few payments and I now have a bad ICB rating. The house is out of negative equitity so if he sold now he would break even. I would even pay for half the legal fees. I think I am being more than generous considering myself and my two children have to move every couple of years because we are renting. The deal was for him to take over the property when we split up, twelve years later we are still here so I feel there is no other way to force the sale.
    I don't know where you got from my post that I felt I was not liable, I never said I wasn't. I am also contributing PRSI and again I am looking for nothing except be removed from the mortgage. I go month to month worried whether he paid the mortgage, or worried that the landlord calls to say he is selling. I feel that 12 years is very resonable time to wait for him to get his act together instead of making a profit from renting. I would like to move on as I am sure he is the same.


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    #4
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,164 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    You have to look at it from the banks perspective, two people to chase for the outstanding funds vs one. You won't get "removed" from the mortgage outside of your own demise.

    The way to resolve this is to pay off the debt. Either paying off the balance or selling to do so are the only options.


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    #5
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    This is more of a personal issue or a legal one.

    What is your relationship with your ex like?
    Have you talked about it recently?

    I don't understand the references to PRSI.

    Was the agreement you made a formal one or an informal one.

    If the ex isn't engaging and won't sell and can't take it on his own then the legal route is the only one left.

    Would you move back in yourself?, buy him out of the mortgage?


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    #6
    Lucuma
    Registered Users Posts: 1,356 ✭✭✭Lucuma


    I have 2nd hand exp of the same situation. AFAIK the only way you can force the sale is to take him to court. That's going to cost you 15-20 grand. So highly unlikely to be worth it. You're actually in a good position. One day that house will be paid off + you'll own half of it, even tho your ex paid off the mortgage.


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    #7
    frankiev
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭frankiev


    Lucuma wrote: »
    I have 2nd hand exp of the same situation. AFAIK the only way you can force the sale is to take him to court. That's going to cost you 15-20 grand. So highly unlikely to be worth it. You're actually in a good position. One day that house will be paid off + you'll own half of it, even tho your ex paid off the mortgage.

    Really? Even though I haven't contributed towards it? Ps do you mind me asking if you forced the sale of the house? At this stage 20 grand would be worth it just to get off it once and for all!!


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    #8
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    Its up to you to make sure payments are made. You agreed to do so when you took on the mortgage regardless of your personal circumstances


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    #9
    Old diesel
    Registered Users Posts: 5,786 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    Is this guy the kids dad......

    The ONLY reason I ask is that if he is - he could get rid of his current tenants on the basis that a family member needs the house.

    If the kids are his then they qualify as family members and thus what could happen is you and the kids move in and you can then work on getting that mortgage cleared up.

    Better to be paying the money you now pay in rent into that mortgage.

    Please note the above is ONLY an option if the ex is actually the kids dad.

    If he is NOT the kids dad then you need to find another way.


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    #10
    1874
    Registered Users Posts: 2,382 ✭✭✭1874


    Lucuma wrote: »
    I have 2nd hand exp of the same situation. AFAIK the only way you can force the sale is to take him to court. That's going to cost you 15-20 grand. So highly unlikely to be worth it. You're actually in a good position. One day that house will be paid off + you'll own half of it, even tho your ex paid off the mortgage.


    I dont believe that would be the case, she wouldnt be able to prove she contributed a penny to the mortgage in that case, because she hasn't. On top of which, thats a fairly poor attitude to take, that you think she should contribute little or nothing despite her own liability and then be entitled to half. If he has any sense or concern, he should be contributing to the children and doign his best to make payments, so maybe he has gotten financially stuck, if they are his kids, but if they are not, which hasnt been clarified, then he has no repsonsibility.
    I can see the OPs side, she wants out and away from it, I dont think the banks will take that view but the OP wont know till they approach them and start making enquiries.
    Where does he live himself OP? why cant he live there and rent rooms, might make his situation easier/better? maybe he is burying his head in the sand as its overwhelming getting into debt.

    As for her own concerns regarding renting, approach the relevant organisations for support


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    #11
    ct5amr2ig1nfhp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,019 ✭✭✭ct5amr2ig1nfhp


    Do you have your 'agreement' in writing, or is it all verbal? OP could argue that she agreed to rent the property as long the rent covered the mortgage. In that case, he hasn't contributed either. She'd be more than entitled to half the sale in that case.

    You could force him to take action by advising him you will give the current tenants a valid notice of termination. You have a right to do so. Depending on how long the current tenants are there, the notice period could be reduced if you plan to move into the house. ('the landlord requires the dwelling for own or family member occupation.')


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    #12
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    If the house is in positive equity could the legal costs of forcing a sale be taken from that residual equity?


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    #13
    C3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 3,738 ✭✭✭C3PO


    Deleted User wrote: »
    If the house is in positive equity could the legal costs of forcing a sale be taken from that residual equity?

    Yes - that probably would be ordered by the court. OP, you really need to go and see a solicitor and seek qualified legal advice but in simple terms the courts would almost definitely order the sale of the house if your ex cannot get you off the mortgage. This is particularly the case given that it is not his home.


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    #14
    JimmyMW
    Registered Users Posts: 695 ✭✭✭JimmyMW


    One issue that has not been addressed here, if the OP is co-owner and is so on the mortgage, she may be liable for income tax from the rent received, and may face a huge tax bill as a result. This situation seams extremely messy and I would suggest the OP need to resolve this matter one way or the other immediately via their solicitor.


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    #15
    Graniteville
    Closed Accounts Posts: 292 ✭✭Graniteville


    Phenomenal amount of poor advice here.

    People thinks its so easy to sort issues out with previous partners especially those who tend not want to co-operate.


    There's only one way to go and that is via a solicitor. It won't be expensive and you will receive the best and most correct advice there.


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    #16
    fletch
    Registered Users Posts: 7,380 ✭✭✭fletch


    Yep best advice is to see a solicitor or this situation will continue indefinitely.

    I have first hand experience with my ex...after a months of trying to negotiate (through our solicitors), eventually I had to seek an order under Section 31 of the Conveyancing and Landlaw Reform Act 2009 to force the sale of the house (Note: the law is different for married couples as opposed to co-habiting, but your solicitor will know all this)

    I cannot believe you have allowed the situation to go on this long. He has ruined your credit rating yet you are still hanging on so he can make a profit. :confused: The minute that property was out of negative equity I'd have been insisting on it going up for sale! (But I accept children are involved so perhaps pushing him into financial difficulty might not have been either of your best interests)

    Anyway, just go see a solicitor. You are going to need one to sell the house anyway. In the grand scheme of things, it's a small price to pay to make sure things are done properly.


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    #17
    fletch
    Registered Users Posts: 7,380 ✭✭✭fletch


    Oh and the outcome was that, my ex facilitated the sale of the house before the court date. (I presume he was advised it was in his financial best interests as he couldn't secure a mortgage to buy me out and I was challenging him for my legal costs too).

    If you have any doubt that your ex won't follow through with the sale though, I would recommend seeing it right through to court as otherwise he could pull out at the very last minute of the sale.


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    #18
    frankiev
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭frankiev


    Hey everyone, thank you all so much for taking the time to reply.

    The mortgage has about four grand left and then it will be out of neg equitity. I know I have let it go on so long but personal circumstances unfortunately stopped me and yes I absolutely buried my head in the sand.
    Like I said before, I am not thinking about forcing the sale of the house to make any money from it, I just want to move on. Solicotors didn't want to entertain me and told me to come back when it was out of negative equitity so thats what I will do. I am just nervous about costs etc so I was looking to see if anyone had gone through something similar and what was the outcome. I am worriedthe judge turns around and statei have to pay 12 years mortgage or something


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    #19
    fletch
    Registered Users Posts: 7,380 ✭✭✭fletch


    Are you sure it's still 4k in negative equity? Property prices are nearly at Celtic tiger figures and the mortgage has been paid for the last 12 years? Surely there must be a fair bit of equity built up by now.


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    #20
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,278 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    OP- you say you're contributing to 'PRSI'?
    What do you mean?
    Are you paying PRSI, USC and Income tax on the rental income (of course not all the mortgage payments will have been tax deductable- so there will be tax owed on the rental income)?

    Its not a simple case of sell the property- problem gone- you have the years of mess to sort out too- which includes your tax situation- it doesn't matter whether or not you got a share of the rental income- you are liable for tax on it- as you are a co-owner of the property- and if it hasn't been paid thus far- the penalties alone could be a multiple of any tax that was ever due on it.

    You need professional advice from a solicitor and separately from a tax consultant- you need to fix your financial records.


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    #21
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users Posts: 14,329 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    JimmyMW wrote:
    One issue that has not been addressed here, if the OP is co-owner and is so on the mortgage, she may be liable for income tax from the rent received, and may face a huge tax bill as a result. This situation seams extremely messy and I would suggest the OP need to resolve this matter one way or the other immediately via their solicitor.

    From the ops posts I gather that they haven't received any of the rental income and as such that tax liability will lie with the ex partner.
    There is a question of CGT because the house was rented out but again, given its only coming out of negative equity then it hardly looks as though there will be any payment due.


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    #22
    JimmyMW
    Registered Users Posts: 695 ✭✭✭JimmyMW


    jimmycrackcorm wrote: »
    From the ops posts I gather that they haven't received any of the rental income and as such that tax liability will lie with the ex partner.
    There is a question of CGT because the house was rented out but again, given its only coming out of negative equity then it hardly looks as though there will be any payment due.

    Not as simple as that, as co owner of the house they could be liable for tax if not paid by the ex, essentially its viewed as a gain of equity in the house, therefore a taxable gain.


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    #23
    frankiev
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭frankiev


    I didn't realise about the tax, I wonder could the solicitor help with that


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    #24
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,278 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    frankiev wrote: »
    I didn't realise about the tax, I wonder could the solicitor help with that

    If only your solicitor could wear two hats.
    Unfortunately- you need to talk to a decent tax consultant- as well as your solicitor. If you talk to your solicitor he/she may be able to recommend someone local to you. Don't skimp on either the solicitor or the tax consultant- whatever they cost you is likely money well spent.


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    #25
    frankiev
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭frankiev


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    If only your solicitor could wear two hats.
    Unfortunately- you need to talk to a decent tax consultant- as well as your solicitor. If you talk to your solicitor he/she may be able to recommend someone local to you. Don't skimp on either the solicitor or the tax consultant- whatever they cost you is likely money well spent.



    Thanks, great advice! Let the battle commence


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    #26
    C3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 3,738 ✭✭✭C3PO


    I would look at the courts as a last resort OP! I'm involved in a similar situation and the advice we are getting is that the total legal costs associated with getting a judgement could run to €50-60k - your €4k negative equity would be totally insignificant!


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