Bothar Charity under investigation

Limerick Native · 10-10-2020 9:11am #1

Head office is based in Limerick, it will be interesting to see the outcome of this investigation.

um7y1h83ge06nx · 10-10-2020 9:13am

Checked and it's true, link here, not sure how well it embeds via the touch site.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/regulator-appoints-inspectors-to-investigate-charity-b%C3%B3thar-1.4376621

Limerick Native · 10-10-2020 9:17am

Strange no local news outlet picked up on this.

whisky_galore · 10-10-2020 9:48am

Is the investigation finished yet, Camel?

stuckintipp · 10-10-2020 8:18pm

Mohammad Damp Ramp wrote: »

Checked and it's true, link here, not sure how well it embeds via the touch site.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/regulator-appoints-inspectors-to-investigate-charity-b%C3%B3thar-1.4376621

It gives me no pleasure in saying this but the 'charity' sector in Ireland must be one of the most corrupt around, it's a shame as tens of thousands of normal people volunteer their time and effort only to be taken for a fool by people at the top living it up, claiming big expenses and using the lifestyle and media focus for selfish means.

I was reading about a charity, headed by a former irish celebrity, a well know know man, in their last accounts their income was €7 million, they spent €6.5 on salary's, PR, advertising, office costs etc All the while he gets media coverage, book publicity making him out to be a saint

Masala · 10-10-2020 8:20pm

Jeez... and we (our school) paid for a cow to go to Africa with them!!!

Don’t tell me they still have our cow

orm0nd · 12-10-2020 8:59pm

Masala wrote: »

Jeez... and we (our school) paid for a cow to go to Africa with them!!!

Don’t tell me they still have our cow

no they don't have the cow, Jim Gavin the former Dublin football manager is a commercial pilot and he usually piloted the planes taking the animals abroad.

I don't know what the investigation is about.

mgbgt1978 · 12-10-2020 9:15pm

You don't know what the investigation is about...fair enough.

....but you are pretty sure that this Jim Gavin (obviously as a former County football manager he remembers every Animal he flew to Africa) definitely brought Masala's cow to Africa ?

Beechwoodspark · 12-10-2020 9:18pm

I have given this charity good support over the years so I would be devestated to find out if it is dodgy

orm0nd · 13-10-2020 6:28am

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

You don't know what the investigation is about...fair enough.

....but you are pretty sure that this Jim Gavin (obviously as a former County football manager he remembers every Animal he flew to Africa) definitely brought Masala's cow to Africa ?

Give me the tag number of the cow and I'll check it out for you.

I have bought cows that the Dept of Agriculture didn't clear for export because they were a day or two out of test for export which is stricter requirements than home sale. These were sold at public auction and when announced usually commanded a price higher than market value. and the money goes to the charity.

Each animal donated for Bothar is on the Dept record and they keep record not JG. He provides his services for free as do a lot of people including cost to themselves.

This charity was done tremendous work for the families concerned and I as well as a lot of farmers from this area have donated.

Hopefully the good work will continue and the investigation deals with its findings as it sees fit.

Lolle06 · 13-10-2020 6:54am

orm0nd wrote: »

Give me the tag number of the cow and I'll check it out for you.

I have bought cows that the Dept of Agriculture didn't clear for export because they were a day or two out of test for export which is stricter requirements than home sale. These were sold at public auction and when announced usually commanded a price higher than market value. and the money goes to the charity.

Each animal donated for Bothar is on the Dept record and they keep record not JG. He provides his services for free as do a lot of people including cost to themselves.

This charity was done tremendous work for the families concerned and I as well as a lot of farmers from this area have donated.

Hopefully the good work will continue and the investigation deals with its findings as it sees fit.

Does every donor get a tag number as proof that the donation was spent on an animal?

Obviously they don’t hire an „inspector“, if they don’t suspect a charity spending most of the donations in other ways.

Peregrinus · 13-10-2020 7:13am

Lolle06 wrote: »

Does every donor get a tag number as proof that the donation was spent on an animal?

How would giving a tag number prove that the money was spent on animal? At best, it would just prove that some of the charity's money was spent on an animal, but how would it prove a link between a specific donation and a specific animal?

Lolle06 wrote: »

Obviously they don’t hire an „inspector“, if they don’t suspect a charity spending most of the donations in other ways.

There's nothing remotely obvious about that. They could mount an inspection into any aspect of a charity's operation that was not in compliance with the legislation. If you think the only requirement imposed on charities by the legislation is "spend the money on what you send you'd spend it on" you obviously haven't looked at the legislation.

Per the newspaper reports, in this case "t is believed that the investigation relates to governance issues at the charity". That could certainly be something other than financial impropriety.

Lolle06 · 13-10-2020 7:28am

Peregrinus wrote: »

How would giving a tag number prove that the money was spent on animal? At best, it would just prove that some of the charity's money was spent on an animal, but how would it prove a link between a specific donation and a specific animal?

There's nothing remotely obvious about that. They could mount an inspection into any aspect of a charity's operation that was not in compliance with the legislation. If you think the only requirement imposed on charities by the legislation is "spend the money on what you send you'd spend it on" you obviously haven't looked at the legislation.

Per the newspaper reports, in this case "t is believed that the investigation relates to governance issues at the charity". That could certainly be something other than financial impropriety.

I was replying to Orm0nds post, who asked for the „tag number“ b/c Masala asked if the cow the school bought went to Africa.

I know a few charities who are run well and don’t have inspection appointments going public.

If there is money involved, it is always about the money imho.

Let’s just wait for the outcome of this, will we?

Peregrinus · 13-10-2020 8:51am

I'm very happy to wait for the outcome of it. Which is why I think it's premature to say that the appointment of an inspector suggests that the regulators "suspect a charity spending most of the donations in other ways". We'll know what the regulators' concern is when we see the report; not before.

Hibernicis · 13-10-2020 11:56am

Brief statement on the Bothar website

The Board and executive of Bóthar can confirm that it has been notified by the Charities Regulator of its decision to appoint inspectors to carry out a statutory investigation.

The commencement of an investigation is not a finding of any wrong-doing. The organisation will fully cooperate with the Regulator and its inspectors on this matter and awaits the finalisation of the report and its findings at the earliest opportunity.

The annual reports and financial statements are available from the Bothar website here. The most recent published account are for the year ended 30th June 2018. These were signed on 3rd July 2019 and were lodged in the Companies Office on 4th July 2019. The accounts for the year ended June 2019 are not on the website and are not listed on the CRO website.

As a past donor I'd be disappointed if there are significant financial irregularities. However fairness to all concerned we should wait for the results of the statutory investigation before jumping to conclusions.

c montgomery · 13-10-2020 12:01pm

Hibernicis wrote: »

Brief statement on the Bothar website

The annual reports and financial statements are available from the Bothar website here. The most recent published account are for the year ended 30th June 2018. These were signed on 3rd July 2019 and were lodged in the Companies Office on 4th July 2019. The accounts for the year ended June 2019 are not on the website and are not listed on the CRO website.

As a past donor I'd be disappointed if there are significant financial irregularities. However fairness to all concerned we should wait for the results of the statutory investigation before jumping to conclusions.

I heard they have been overpaying for animals for years, sometimes 500% of the actual value.
Talks of kickbacks.
All animals bought from same 2 dealers.

Treepole · 13-10-2020 12:15pm

It's all bull

saabsaab · 13-10-2020 12:56pm

Treepole wrote: »

It's all bull

I know. It really gets your goat, doesn't it.

whisky_galore · 13-10-2020 1:00pm

saabsaab wrote: »

I know. It really gets your goat, doesn't it.

It would give anyone the hump.

13-10-2020 1:28pm

saabsaab wrote: »

I know. It really gets your goat, doesn't it.

It's all the people blindly giving them money that irks me.. load of sheep.

Comhrá · 13-10-2020 2:06pm

Deleted User wrote: »

It's all the people blindly giving them money that irks me.. load of sheep.

Doesn't bear thinking about.

Mad_maxx · 13-10-2020 7:39pm

know someone who sent an in calf holstien heifer ( worth circa 1500 euro ) to africa with Bothar around seven years ago , they cribbed about framing a photograph of him beside the cow before it was leaving the country

told him they had no room within their budget for " framing "

hes the kind of guy to kick up a fuss and was so astounded at the meanness of it , he promised to bring negative PR on them , probably cost them less than a tenner ?

they gave in in the end and posted him out a framed pic

Treepole · 13-10-2020 10:20pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

know someone who sent an in calf holstien heifer ( worth circa 1500 euro ) to africa with Bothar around seven years ago , they cribbed about framing a photograph of him beside the cow before it was leaving the country

told him they had no room within their budget for " framing "

hes the kind of guy to kick up a fuss and was so astounded at the meanness of it , he promised to bring negative PR on them , probably cost them less than a tenner ?

they gave in in the end and posted him out a framed pic

To be fair would he not have framed itself? It seems a bit of an awkward request.

Mad_maxx · 14-10-2020 9:39am

Treepole wrote: »

To be fair would he not have framed itself? It seems a bit of an awkward request.

perhaps but thats what he told me

his attitude seemed to be that he was providing them with a valuable animal for a good cause ?

" bit of give and take "

Peregrinus · 14-10-2020 10:13am

Mad_maxx wrote: »

perhaps but thats what he told me

his attitude seemed to be that he was providing them with a valuable animal for a good cause ?

" bit of give and take "

It's a charitable donation. There's not supposed to be any take; just give.

If he wants his photograph framed, he can frame it. I'm not sure why he thinks a charity should frame it for him, esp when their charitable purpose is sending livestock to developing countries, not framing photographs for people.

Limerick Native · 17-10-2020 12:18pm

Limerick leader ran a small piece on it, I guess we will get the full story when the investigation is complete . Rumours are rife around the place.

Let's hope they are not true.

Spring · 17-12-2020 10:36pm

Is there any update or further news on the Bothar investigation? Amthinking of making a donation for christmas...

thebourke · 08-04-2021 10:43pm

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0408/1208688-courts-bothar/

Limerick Native · 08-04-2021 10:46pm

This is substantial, very substantial, how can they come back from this, look at the people this guy was denying in order to line his own pockets.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/charity-b%25C3%25B3thar-claims-ex-ceo-misappropriated-465-000-in-donations-1.4532356%3fmode=amp

jay0109 · 08-04-2021 10:50pm

The Charity industry in this country is still the wild west of probity. There's no end to the scandals because there's no end to the number of charities here!

YoshiReturns · 08-04-2021 11:05pm

I have given a lot of money to charities in the past. I feel like I'm being swindled sometimes... And then they keep sending you full colour brochures in the post etc to make you feel extra guilty about the ****ing **** state of the world. With you name and details printed on bank demands.

One decent upside is that they can claim the income tax you paid on the amount.

Just need to find a charity to trust.

But this particular case seems to stink. It's like pissing in the wind giving money to Africa and then you've got the dodgy blokes and blokettes in Ireland creaming money off.

thebourke · 08-04-2021 11:17pm

we have serious problem in this country with white collar crime....

saabsaab · 09-04-2021 4:46pm

thebourke wrote: »

we have serious problem in this country with white collar crime....

All crime.

Mc Love · 09-04-2021 4:53pm

Will rarely fund any of these charities anymore including pieta house

Beechwoodspark · 09-04-2021 5:08pm

Mc Love wrote: »

Will rarely fund any of these charities anymore including pieta house

Have read a bit about pieta lately

Something not right about the whole set up.

chicorytip · 09-04-2021 5:33pm

YoshiReturns wrote: »

I have given a lot of money to charities in the past. I feel like I'm being swindled sometimes... And then they keep sending you full colour brochures in the post etc to make you feel extra guilty about the ****ing **** state of the world. With you name and details printed on bank demands.

One decent upside is that they can claim the income tax you paid on the amount.

Just need to find a charity to trust.

But this particular case seems to stink. It's like pissing in the wind giving money to Africa and then you've got the dodgy blokes and blokettes in Ireland creaming money off.

Trocaire is a trustworthy charity to which I have been donating whatever I can afford for many years. Properly run in a prudent fashion and transparent without the egomaniacal/media monster types in charge as was once the case with Goal, Console and others.

Limerick Native · 10-04-2021 2:15pm

Check out today's Irish Independent, full 2 page spread blowing it all open, shocking to say the least.

pjordan · 13-04-2021 4:59pm

chicorytip wrote: »

Trocaire is a trustworthy charity to which I have been donating whatever I can afford for many years. Properly run in a prudent fashion and transparent without the egomaniacal/media monster types in charge as was once the case with Goal, Console and others.

I donate to Trocaire every Easter in lieu of filling the Trocaire box anymore. I also have a monthly direct debit to Concern.

What actually annoys me however is the regular phone calls I get from Concern (which I ignore) and yesterday I received a mail shot from Trocaire and another from Simon (cos I made a donation in some LLS fundraiser).

I donated my money to these charities to benefit needy people, not to fund further expensive glossy marketing/mailshots to myself.

Limerick Native · 13-04-2021 8:18pm

More bad news

https://newsreader.ie/investigation-found-ex-bothar-ceo-paid-himself-e8000-extra-in-2018-and-2019/?fbclid=IwAR3a6YLbrTEIw6B2GEuwHqiwS4WrAzLi9tQFiUDBXdoxqYloyPZMhdlBi0Q

Potential-Monke · 13-04-2021 9:14pm

I never understood why these people get paid so much from what is supposed to be a charity organisation. I know people will come along and say you don't get the experience and knowledge necessary to run these companies from people less paid, but if you're going into charity work expecting large wages, you're doing it for the wrong reasons.

I don't donate because of things like this. I genuinely can't trust any of them. Nobody should be getting rich from charity work.

mycro2013 · 13-04-2021 9:23pm

Had experience of bothar. My parents have livestock and wanted to donate an animal for the charity. Bothar weren't interested in the dairy heifer all they wanted was a cash donation.

They questioned my parents rationale for not giving a cash donation of a similar amount to the value of the livestock. My fathers response was apt giving the goings on" you cant squander the cow, as the person receiving the cow can only receive a full not a partial animal.

kirving · 13-04-2021 9:28pm

pjordan wrote: »

What actually annoys me however is the regular phone calls I get from Concern (which I ignore)

Call them and ask them to take you off all mailings. They do take that seriously as they don't want to irritate existing donors.

AndrewJRenko · 13-04-2021 9:38pm

stuckintipp wrote: »

I was reading about a charity, headed by a former irish celebrity, a well know know man, in their last accounts their income was €7 million, they spent €6.5 on salary's, PR, advertising, office costs etc All the while he gets media coverage, book publicity making him out to be a saint

Which charity is this please? You won't be breaching any confidences as they all report this information to the Charity Regulator.

Spending on salaries isn't a bad thing in labour intensive sectors like homeless services or disability care services.

Bicyclette · 14-04-2021 10:43am

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Which charity is this please? You won't be breaching any confidences as they all report this information to the Charity Regulator.

Spending on salaries isn't a bad thing in labour intensive sectors like homeless services or disability care services.

This sounds like Irish Autism Action.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/autism-charity-collapses-after-years-of-financial-struggles-1.3826365

AndrewJRenko · 14-04-2021 11:03am

Bicyclette wrote: »

This sounds like Irish Autism Action.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/autism-charity-collapses-after-years-of-financial-struggles-1.3826365

Possibly, though the post seems to be confusing fund raising costs and operating costs. It might have been helpful to explain that the charity has been shut down.

jay0109 · 14-04-2021 2:12pm

The previous CEO of Bothar also being looked at. he resigned in 2011 but still got large payments for 4 years after
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/payments-to-second-ex-bothar-ceo-being-probed-by-charity-40311283.html

JibJabWibWab · 14-04-2021 6:49pm

jay0109 wrote: »

The previous CEO of Bothar also being looked at. he resigned in 2011 but still got large payments for 4 years after
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/payments-to-second-ex-bothar-ceo-being-probed-by-charity-40311283.html

I will never contribute to any charity with a "CEO".
Peter McVerry Trust had an income of 46 million in 2019 and spent 26 million on staff.
They only spent 9.5 million on actual housing.
The average wage is over 52k.

Google Peter McVerry Trust financial accounts 2019 for source.

AndrewJRenko · 14-04-2021 7:00pm

JibJabWibWab wrote: »

I will never contribute to any charity with a "CEO".
Peter McVerry Trust had an income of 46 million in 2019 and spent 26 million on staff.
They only spent 9.5 million on actual housing.
The average wage is over 52k.
F**k off...

Google Peter McVerry Trust financial accounts 2019 for source.

Housing isn't much good without people to operate it and support residents. Homeless services are labour intensive. PMV aren't a building company.

Unless of course, you're an expert in running homeless services yourself?

Clareman · 14-04-2021 8:25pm

Just a reminder folks that this is the Limerick regional forum so please keep the topics to Limerick related issues. This forum isn't a general charity forum or 1 that can discuss other charities. Also, the Bothar investigation is an ongoing case so please include a link to any article you are quoting when discussing it.

JibJabWibWab · 15-04-2021 11:19am

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Housing isn't much good without people to operate it and support residents. Homeless services are labour intensive. PMV aren't a building company.

Unless of course, you're an expert in running homeless services yourself?

In 2019, Peter McVerry Trust supported 6,184 unique individuals across our services.

Over the course of the year, our Housing With Supports team made a total of 50,000 home supports visits to social housing tenants across Ireland.

When you divide that workload by the 460 frontline staff, across the full year, it doesn't seem particularly efficient...

https://pmvtrust.ie/annual-report-2019/

https://pmvtrust.ie/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/2019-PMVT-CLG-Signed-Audited-Accounts.pdf

banie01 · 15-04-2021 11:27am

jay0109 wrote: »

The previous CEO of Bothar also being looked at. he resigned in 2011 but still got large payments for 4 years after
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/payments-to-second-ex-bothar-ceo-being-probed-by-charity-40311283.html

From personal experience, this is a portion of that particular charity that will bare fruit IMO.
From Cooperation North, some Brothers of Charity affiliated work and the G.A.P of the late 90's there is a lot of interest in those activities that would hold a lot of interest for investigation.

The model of the charity sector in Ireland is quite open to abuse and from personal and professional experience, it is both common and a huge obstacle to effective action on both Government policy and actual charitable supports.

Bothar Charity under investigation

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