Ritual tools

Aul Pine Georges arcade off georges st is another place.

Adam Blavatsky wrote:

Really, this is news to me, I always thought that the athame was the primary witches tool and therefore intensely personal and constructed or acquired after a lot of careful thought and deliberation.

I would agree with that but different people work in slightly differing ways it could be that that is the way in which Scorplett works or has worked.

Scorplett wrote:

"Athames are ritual items and are usually given as a gift at initiation"

I don't think Scorplett expects her opinion to be considered cannon for the entire world and she did say usually.

Opps Yes, I did did mean canon there goes that pesky dyslexia of mine again.
Elaborate on what exactly ?

It depends on the context in which you are working.
I would not go as far as saying heart and mind I would just say "me".

amazingemmet wrote:

When i first started i needed fancy rituals and tools to covince myself i was acheiving something now that i'm more experienced i don't need anything bar myself.

In my area this is what is called the "Empty-Handed Gesture" - the ability to perform potent magick without a temple space or ritual tools - anywhere, at a moments notice. It is in may ways the highest attainment in practical magick to be able to do this with reliable and significant results, the sign of an advanced magickian, and a very cool idea.

For most practitioners of magick, tools are important. It is difficult to manipulate ones state of mind without some outward trappings, especially if one is trying something new and frightening, or if one is under any pressure. While I agree that elaborate props are not necessary for simple magick, if on takes up regular magickal practice, a well cared-for, well-made and somewhat treasured set ot tools can be of great benefit. One can of course aspire to grow beyond the need for them, but there may always be certain circumstances in which it will be easier to use tools.

Bolline.
A bolline is a white-handled knife used for cutting, carving or inscribing things (candles, talismans etc) during the course of a ritual or in preperation.
You don't generally cut things with your Athame.

In a ritual magic context there are rituals that perscibe the use of certain tools made of certain woods or metals and certain colour robes and the use of certain insences to reach a certain atunement and reach places that working with such tools can help a magical practioner again acess too but they are very specifc to certain workings and for the most part not for beginers.

Adam Blavatsky wrote:

Athames are ritual items and are usually given as a gift at initiation,

Really, this is news to me, I always thought that the athame was the primary witches tool and therefore intensely personal and constructed or acquired after a lot of careful thought and deliberation.

I know that during initiation the neophyte is presented with the athame along with the rest of the working tools but that I'm sure you'll agree is not quite the same thing.

AB

Firstley it is not a neophyte that is presented with the tools. The order of the ritual is quite specific in that the initiation is given and the neophyte pronounced as priestess and witch and then in that capacity are then correctly prepared to be presented with the tools, then with the knowledge of the tools having just been given, then they are prepare to be presented to the mighty ones and then to the guardians of the quarters.

So to be strictly correct about it yes it should be the case as the very first time anyone should have the opportunity to hold a magical tool is at the end of their initiation. Before this point they are in training.
The Athame in particuluar is the conserve of the ritual magician and witch and is not used in familial traditions in the same context. Also for a tool to be a tool in this context it must be properly consecrated and the consecration of such a tool requires a priest and priestess therefore only truly being an athame if given in a coven because before consecration it is mearley a knife. Though you may dedicate it as your ritual knife it is not an athame. There is no proper etymological reference in any European language for the use of the word before gardner wrote of it. Therefore outside of traditions hiving from gardner himself there is no real context for an athame as we know it.

Secondly, it is the witches primary 'weapon' but that does not mean it is her primary tool. That is something only an individual witch can claim as each individuals pracitces are different, even within strict coven teachings every individual would have more of a personal calling to a particuluar mode of working and hence each will have a different primary working tool. For example mine is my boleen and my mortar and pestle as herbal practices are my personal forte.
An athame is after all a weapon and you should treat it as such even in ritual terms. It is an instrument of subjagation and controll, it can also be very dangerous to certain elementals that would not have been at work in the UK at the time the gardinarian book of shadows came about and yes gardinarian is relevant here as the aspects of the gard BOS are largley unchanged in the Alexandrian BOS.

Gardinarian BOS available at sacred texts.com http://www.sacred-texts.com/pag/gbos/index.htm] :
"First the Magic Sword. With this, as with the Athame, thou canst form all Magic Circles, dominate, subdue, and punish all rebellious Spirits and Demons, and even persuade the Angels and Geniuses. With this in your hand you are the ruler of the Circle.
Next I present the Athame. This is the true Witch's weapon and has all the powers of the Magic Sword...

It would be a very rare thing that anyone would have to dominate, subdue and punish rebellious spirits and deamons and that said just because you have an athame (or what you call an athame) does not mean you can do this. And as I said before, the athame is a weapon and most would agree that in every day life it is not everyone who would have want or need for a weapon. The other aspect of it, that of casting all form of circle. Most circles that anyone need cast can be done with finger or wand. Therefore it should not be something someone would need untill after such time as their training be at a certain level (ie properly prepared for initiation or similar)

gardinarian BOS:
"There are no magical supply shops, so unless you are lucky enough to be given or sold tools, a poor witch must extemporize. But when made you should be able to borrow or obtain an Athame. So having made your circle, erect an altar. Any small table or chest will do. There must be fire on it (a candle will suffice) and your book. For good results incense is best if you can get it, but coals in a chafing dish burning sweet-smelling herbs will do. A cup if you would have cakes and wine, and a platter with the signs drawn into the same in ink, showing a pentacle. A scourge is easily made (note, the scourge has eight tails and five knots in each tail). Get a white-hilted knife and a wand (a sword is not necessary). Cut the marks with Athame. Purify everything, then consecrate your tools in proper form and ever be properly prepared. But ever remember, magical operations are useless unless the mind can be brought to the proper attitude, keyed to the utmost pitch. Affirmations must be made clearly, and the mind should be inflamed with desire. With this frenzy of will, you may do as much with simple tools as with the most complete set. But good and especially ancient tools have their own aura. They do help to bring about that reverential spirit, the desire to learn and develop your powers. For this reason witches ever try to obtain tools from sorcerers, who, being skilled men, make good tools and consecrate them well, giving them mighty power. But a great witch's tools also gain much power; and you should ever strive to make any tools you manufacture of the finest materials you can obtain, to the end that they may absorb your power the more easily. And of course if you may inherit or obtain another witch's tools, power will flow from them. It is an old belief that the best substances for making tools are those that have once had life in them, as opposed to artificial substances. Thus wood or ivory is better for a wand than metal, which is more appropriate for knives or swords. Virgin parchment is better than manufactured paper for talismans, etc. And things which have been made by hand are good, because there is life in them.

The second sentance of the above quote begins with "But when made you should be able to borrow or obtain an Athame." This is meaning that when you are made a witch by initiation you can borrow or obtain an athame. This is not my personal interpretation but rather liniaged teachings.
It is often done that the dedicant or neophyte construct their tools as part of their training. Receiving instruction not only in how they would be properly made but also in how they are properly used and what they mean.
Before the publication of the books of shadows however part formed they may be, magical tools such as the athame were oathbound knowledge of a truly esoteric nature and purpose. This is no longer the case and such things that were once the reserve of the initiated magus are now public domain and have been adapted and cloned and hybridised. The fact that everyone from your self dedicated teen witch to your wiccan high priestess and elder have an athame and that such questions should come about as have done on this list most obviously shows that an athame is no longer what is used to be, at least to some.
To clarify again, none of what I have posted is oath-bound material, which for me raises the question of where along the line did things get so skewed???

Scorplett, thank you for your lengthy if not somewhat verbose response to my earlier post.

Strictly speaking the Neophyte has reached the point within the rite that they have been duly consecrated priest(ess) and witch by the time the tools are presented I'll give you that one.

So if as you suggest the aforementioned tool or weapon if you prefer, starts the initiation rite as a knife and finishes as an athame, why didn't you say that the athame is usually created or consecrated for its magical purpose during initiation. Why did you instead say that the athame was usually given as a gift during initiation, a statement which could be construed as meaning something apart from what you were apparently trying to say.

Incidentally I think you got your point across sufficiently without having to quote chunks of the Public domain version of the Gardnerian BoS, although it does provoke me to ask the question is there any place for dogma within an experiential spiritual path?

AB

OK Scorplett, from the top.

Scorplett wrote:

"You must remember that many using these forums (including perhaps the original poster) would not be as knowledgeable as someone who would choose such a weighted occult user name"

So you've heard of Madame Blavatsky, good for you...

Scorplett wrote:

"In my experience the consecration of the tools does not take place in the initiation rite. The gifting is often done at cakes and ale or after the ceremony entirely"

If it is only in your experience then it is not rule of thumb, I know a ot of people that think that the idea of gift-giving during or around an initiation rite to be wholly inappropriate

Scorplett wrote:

"The ritual element of the presentation of tools takes place during initiation and those tools presented (outside of that of the wand perhaps) are specifically rooted in ceremonial magic and belong to a ceremonial magician. The reason for mentioning initiation rites was not to say when a knife becomes an athame but rather when the holder of a knife earns rite to call it and use it as an athame"

I think you need to read a bit more about "Ceremonial Magic" and maybe a little bit about "Fremasonry" too.

Scorplett wrote:

"Also, many of the tools used in presentation are those of the coven or the HP or HP’s and not those of the initiate. The only one that I have always seen to be the possessions of the initiate are the chords. It was also phrased as a gift considering that on occasion the item in question might have been previously owned and passed downline. Such items can never be purchased and could only ever be a gift. So it seems that I was not verbose enough as you have misinterpreted what I was trying to say"

This is not the case, if the candidate did not have his or her own working tools, generally speaking the coven tools would be used not those of HP or HPS, as regards magical apparel being passed downline, the use of second hand magical tools is a whole seperate discussion and not one I want to get into at this time.

Scorplett wrote:

"Again, in consideration for those who may not have as great a knowledge as others and also in consideration for comments made previously by other posters in other threads within this forum, it is sometimes inappropriate to merely post links as not everyone will follow the links or in fact read them correctly. Aside from that it is poor construction of an argument to not back up statments or references where appropriate"

It does make sound academic sense to back up your argument with appropriate references your absolutely right, but what about the quality of those references, is it academically sound to quote an incomplete document off of the internet, from a the middle of the last century that isn't a primary reference or even secondary reference.The Gardnerian BoS within the public domain is nothing more than part of the magical journal of one man, it may have seeds of wisdom within it, but I don't think it was ever meant to be held up and quoted like a bible.

The BoS was only meant as guidance and a starting point for what Gardner viewed as an organic earth based matrifocal fertility religion. Gerald Gardner may have been the father of the neo-pagan revival and possibly a key player in the awaking of the desire for the western mystery tradition, but he was certainly no serious academic. and I can say that unhessitantly as long term student of his works and as an elder of his tradition.

On the subject of books, I have always thought of a well written book as being a bit like a sharp knife cutting its way through ignorance. Some people unfortunately seem to think of a good book as a heavy wooden club to beat people over the head with.

I shall not be passing this way again, I wish you all Hail, Farewell and good luck on wherever your path takes you.

Adam

Is an Athame a black handled knife used for magical ritual purpose ? Yes
Is a black handled knife used for magical ritual purpose an Athame ? not nessarily.

This to me is like wiccans are witches, not all witches are wiccans or even pagan. With the publishing of Gardener's books correctly,
as in his 4 acknowledged books two fiction two non fiction and the infamous books of shadows
(cos lets face it there are some many copies out there few people will ever know what is right or real at this stage)
new words were introduced to the pubic who read these book and subsequent books written after
from those that are taken seriously to those that are not all of these have promoted certain terms and certain words
so that we have come to a stage that for most people wiccan=witch and all black handled knife used for magical ritual purposes=Athames.

This I honestly think to be a right pain in the rear end.

There are many magical practices that use a black handled knife and indeed most of the ritual tools that are now
generally associated with what is seen in the public view of wicca which while they have some things in common with are very differnt from wicca.

What ever type of magical practionor someone is aspiring to be tools can be very much a part of that path.
Having a hammer, a saw a chisel and a plane does not make you a carpenter,
knowing how to use and them and when and how and to care for your tools
certainly makes you a wood worker but you have to learn by using them.
Knowing what tool is best is something that also comes from experience,
for what you have in your tool box is exactly what other people or those who have wirtten books will have.

As with any endeavour, hobby or craft rushing off and buying a full set of what ever is usually not the way to go, aquiring or making what you need as you proceed makes more sense that way you get to know each tool as you come to them and will not over whelm yourself with shiney things and get distracted.

The skills we learn with tools of what ever type we take with use even when we don't have those tools or access to tools like them.

Ideally a wire strippers and screwdriver are used to change a plug but I have manged it quite well with a nail clipers once I knew what I was doing.

Tools change and evolve, I think they are ment to and so are the use of them.

Books can be tools as well but they should make you question and think and ponder and work out if what is mentioned in them is true for you on your path.
Books may be a map of sorts but they are of some one elses journey and while you may try to walk the same path you can never cross the same river twice or stand on the exact same beach.