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05-02-2019, 20:25   #16
Renegade Mechanic
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I don't know what's funnier. The fact that this happened or the fact that people genuinely believed it wouldn't. Just wait till ye go for health insurance...

And pray it doesn't become mandatory like car insurance
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05-02-2019, 20:25   #17
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Anyone who voluntarily gives their DNA to these companies, and who uses private health insurance, is a bit of a fool.
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05-02-2019, 22:18   #18
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Ads by Google - a lot of people in this forum have done so and we don't appreciate being called fools.

My issue is all about how this was managed and whether it breaks the law in Europe. I've always expected this kind of thing would happen and don't personally have an issue with my own DNA being used for this purpose, but others who willingly shared their DNA with me for genealogical purposes might not be happy now.
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05-02-2019, 22:28   #19
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People need to know that their genetic nformation can be hacked, sold, or be legally made do anything.

This thread is about one of those "steps" in that direction, and one of the first post was about have nothing to hide. My post wasn't aimed at the people who've done it already, it was aimed at people who haven't considered every angle. Health insurance being a major one I will absolutely see a headline about before I die.
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05-02-2019, 22:47   #20
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Fine - that's a more reasoned argument than just baldly insulting people.
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05-02-2019, 22:49   #21
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I think health insurers will certainly try and utilize all this DNA data around. Looking at certain genes and risk factors, and calculate insurance premium's.
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05-02-2019, 23:08   #22
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People need to know that their genetic nformation can be hacked, sold, or be legally made do anything.

This thread is about one of those "steps" in that direction, and one of the first post was about have nothing to hide. My post wasn't aimed at the people who've done it already, it was aimed at people who haven't considered every angle. Health insurance being a major one I will absolutely see a headline about before I die.
Anyone can access your DNA, you leave traces everywhere. What’s to stop nsomeone taking an indirect sample and selling it to the highest bidder?
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05-02-2019, 23:38   #23
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Anyone can access your DNA, you leave traces everywhere. What’s to stop nsomeone taking an indirect sample and selling it to the highest bidder?
Nothing.

Much like no one can stop my TV getting stolen. Doesn't mean I should give it away because of that.
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06-02-2019, 12:09   #24
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Anyone who voluntarily gives their DNA to these companies, and who uses private health insurance, is a bit of a fool.
This is the Paranoia of our Modern world,Big brother is watching and recording Everything and if you don't agree with me then "You are a bit of a fool".

This way of thinking can suggest a simple visit to your doctor(blood test) is Dangerous,as he is in cahoots with Big pharma and the Insurance companies.
The electronic devices we use everyday are far more dangerous to our privacy than sharing Dna........so anybody who uses modern technology must be "a bit of a fool"

I believe all the above is happening in our modern world but I am not going to worry about it or hide under a rock, protecting my dna and turning off my electronic connection to the world because that is a paranoid step backwards in my view.
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06-02-2019, 12:58   #25
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Anyone who voluntarily gives their DNA to these companies, and who uses private health insurance, is a bit of a fool.
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I think health insurers will certainly try and utilize all this DNA data around. Looking at certain genes and risk factors, and calculate insurance premium's.
You are both aware that health insurers are required to use community rating in Ireland and have no mechanism to charge people any more or less on any basis at all?

You can be crumbling and have DNA that dooms you to die slowly and expensively and you pay the same as the healthiest person going. They can't even charge smokers more!
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06-02-2019, 22:38   #26
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A DNA test can be used to determine predisposition to cancer risk, Parkinsons, etc. Suggesting that people should not test is the same as telling people not to test for prostate or breast cancer in their annual medical check-up.

In addition to the accurate comment by L1011 above on health insurance, several posts above on DNA and health insurance are grossly misinformed and scaremongering. In Ireland, under the provisions of Part 4 of the Disability Act 2005, an insurer cannot request, take into account or process the results of genetic tests. Even in capitalist USA, use of DNA testing by health insurers is expressly forbidden by direct legislation in about one third (and growing) of states. In all states considerable protection is provided by the Federal Genetic Information Nondiscrimination Act (GINA) which prevents genetic discrimination in the health insurance sector. This law obviously has an impact on the profits of health insurers ; for quite some time rating agencies such as Moodys have factored the losses/negative aspect of this into the rating of companies in the life/health insurance sector. In the EU the situation regarding private DNA testing (not just for insurance) is more complex, with different laws applying in many jurisdictions, from outright bans to testing only via a doctor (Germany) or requiring court approval for paternity tests (France).

Law enforcement agencies have always been obliged to use a subpoena/court order to gain data info., even before GDPR. Furthermore for DNA evidence to be admissible in court, most jurisdictions require that it be initiated by court order and undertaken by a court approved lab. Nothing, of course, can prevent an enforcement officer from doing a solo run to gain info. - we've seen how some of the Gardai here operate.

As I mentioned in an earlier post the real issue in Ireland is not from law agencies but from discovering a sibling/relative. There is an interesting US sibling story HERE
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07-02-2019, 14:40   #27
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Podcast discussing it here now.
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07-02-2019, 18:21   #28
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A DNA test can be used to determine predisposition to cancer risk, Parkinsons, etc. Suggesting that people should not test is the same as telling people not to test for prostate or breast cancer in their annual medical check-up.

In addition to the accurate comment by L1011 above on health insurance, several posts above on DNA and health insurance are grossly misinformed and scaremongering. In Ireland, under the provisions of Part 4 of the Disability Act 2005, an insurer cannot request, take into account or process the results of genetic tests. Even in capitalist USA, use of DNA testing by health insurers is expressly forbidden by direct legislation in about one third (and growing) of states. In all states considerable protection is provided by the Federal Genetic Information Nondiscrimination Act (GINA) which prevents genetic discrimination in the health insurance sector. This law obviously has an impact on the profits of health insurers ; for quite some time rating agencies such as Moodys have factored the losses/negative aspect of this into the rating of companies in the life/health insurance sector. In the EU the situation regarding private DNA testing (not just for insurance) is more complex, with different laws applying in many jurisdictions, from outright bans to testing only via a doctor (Germany) or requiring court approval for paternity tests (France).

Law enforcement agencies have always been obliged to use a subpoena/court order to gain data info., even before GDPR. Furthermore for DNA evidence to be admissible in court, most jurisdictions require that it be initiated by court order and undertaken by a court approved lab. Nothing, of course, can prevent an enforcement officer from doing a solo run to gain info. - we've seen how some of the Gardai here operate.

As I mentioned in an earlier post the real issue in Ireland is not from law agencies but from discovering a sibling/relative. There is an interesting US sibling story HERE
Good info and puts my mind at rest. It's not paranoia to mention that things can change in the next decades but I trust that IE and EU can protect us legally.

So my initial point about people being a bit foolish, well I'm undecided. I still won't get it done, unless I can do it anonymously (which maybe I can).
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07-02-2019, 23:20   #29
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unless I can do it anonymously (which maybe I can).
yes you can.
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