Landlords rights

itsthisyear · 03-12-2019 7:44pm #1

Quick question as I’m not getting clear answers from RTB.
Is there a register for someone that does not pay rent?

03-12-2019 7:49pm

You can search through RTB site for a prospective tenants name, if it’s there, error on the side of caution.

jimwallace197 · 03-12-2019 7:53pm

Welcome to Ireland 2019, good luck:)

itsthisyear · 03-12-2019 8:09pm

Dav010 wrote: »

You can search through RTB site for a prospective tenants name, if it’s there, error on the side of caution.

Thanks for that. Someone renting a room in a house and 2nd month in decides not paying rent.

The_Conductor · 03-12-2019 8:09pm

Nope- apparently a register of non-paying tenants breaches their rights to data protection- go figure.
Letting in Ireland is a game of roulette- you probably will have good tenants, but you might not- its a roll of the dice.

itsthisyear · 03-12-2019 8:14pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

Nope- apparently a register of non-paying tenants breaches their rights to data protection- go figure.
Letting in Ireland is a game of roulette- you probably will have good tenants, but you might not- its a roll of the dice.

The adjudication list has the names published. It should be publicised more. All non paying tenants and landlords who refuse to refund deposits should have a case taken against them and listed here. It might Highlight the landlords to avoid and the tenants to avoid!

03-12-2019 8:14pm

itsthisyear wrote: »

Thanks for that. Someone renting a room in a house and 2nd month in decides not paying rent.

Check if he/she is a licensee rather than a tenant if renting a room, who does he/she pay rent to, the lead tenant or the Landlord?

The_Conductor · 03-12-2019 8:16pm

itsthisyear wrote: »

Thanks for that. Someone renting a room in a house and 2nd month in decides not paying rent.

Do you live in the house?
If not- are you letting the rooms separately- or the property to a group of people- if its the latter- they are jointly and severally liable for the full rent. If not- immediate case with the RTB- you can be certain that if they're not paying the rent, they're probably stiffing the other tenants too for other stuff- you don't want them all to up sticks and leave.........

If you live in the house- they're a licensee, not a tenant- and can be requested to leave with immediate effect.

Either way- count your luck that they pulled this stunt in month 2 and not month 6...........

itsthisyear · 03-12-2019 8:16pm

Dav010 wrote: »

Check if he/she is a licensee rather than a tenant if renting a room, who does he/she pay rent to, the lead tenant or the Landlord?

Lead tenant who sublet without informing us. Registered tenant has fuc*ed off to Canada!

03-12-2019 8:19pm

itsthisyear wrote: »

Lead tenant who sublet without informing us. Registered tenant has fuc*ed off to Canada!

If the tenant who isn’t paying, is paying rent to lead tenant on sublet basis, he/she may well be a licensee so you you could throw him/her out on their arse, but if the tenancy lease was assigned and the new non-paying tenant pays rent to landlord, then it is the landlords problem.

The_Conductor · 03-12-2019 8:20pm

itsthisyear wrote: »

Lead tenant who sublet without informing us. Registered tenant has fuc*ed off to Canada!

In which case they're neither tenant nor licensee.
They are trespassers and you can ask them to leave with immediate effect.

In practice- the lead tenant remains a tenant- irrespective of the fact that he/she has fecked off to Canada- and a case should be lodged against them.

They cannot sublet without permission.

Samuel T. Cogley · 03-12-2019 8:22pm

Take legal advice and if it is as the Conductor says it is (FWIW I believe him to be correct) get them out ASAP.

The_Conductor · 03-12-2019 8:22pm

itsthisyear wrote: »

The adjudication list has the names published. It should be publicised more. All non paying tenants and landlords who refuse to refund deposits should have a case taken against them and listed here. It might Highlight the landlords to avoid and the tenants to avoid!

The adjudication list is meaningless- tenants who loose cases can, and do, ask the RTB to remove their details- and I'm not aware of the RTB ever refusing to remove their details. Plenty of tenants don't bother asking- as they're not aware of how the RTB operate- but in practice, the lack of a name on their database does not mean they haven't been in front of a string of tribunals..........

itsthisyear · 03-12-2019 8:27pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

In which case they're neither tenant nor licensee.
They are trespassers and you can ask them to leave with immediate effect.

In practice- the lead tenant remains a tenant- irrespective of the fact that he/she has fecked off to Canada- and a case should be lodged against them.

They cannot sublet without permission.

I am in agreement but RTB say 28days notice and hope they leave. I didn’t think I’d need to give him notice. The place is a pigsty and all I want to do is get him out and sort it out.

The_Conductor · 03-12-2019 8:29pm

itsthisyear wrote: »

I am in agreement but RTB say 28days notice and hope they leave. I didn’t think I’d need to give him notice. The place is a pigsty and all I want to do is get him out and sort it out.

If the RTB have advised this- do not go against their advice, as if it ever ends up in front of them, it'll go against you. Even if its a month or two without rent- its worth it to get shot of the messy pig.

Samuel T. Cogley · 03-12-2019 8:29pm

itsthisyear wrote: »

I am in agreement but RTB say 28days notice and hope they leave. I didn’t think I’d need to give him notice. The place is a pigsty and all I want to do is get him out and sort it out.

Ignore what some Clerical Officer at the RTB is telling you and speak to a solicitor that knows this area.

itsthisyear · 03-12-2019 8:32pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

If the RTB have advised this- do not go against their advice, as if it ever ends up in front of them, it'll go against you. Even if its a month or two without rent- its worth it to get shot of the messy pig.

True. It’s just frustrating. I walk into a shop and take €600 telly - what happens? I’m arrested. I go and move into a house and refuse to pay rent - what happens? SFA ðŸ˜¡

_Brian · 03-12-2019 8:33pm

Does the tenancy agreement mention subletting ??

itsthisyear · 03-12-2019 8:43pm

_Brian wrote: »

Does the tenancy agreement mention subletting ??

Yes, subletting is not permitted. Doesn’t seem to be worth the paper it’s written on.

Browney7 · 03-12-2019 9:29pm

Does person there at the minute have your bank details or are they refusing contact or are they paying the lead tenant in Canada? Get a solicitor as already advised. Messy situation.

Also, are you renting entire property or room by room basis?

itsthisyear · 04-12-2019 12:03am

Browney7 wrote: »

Does person there at the minute have your bank details or are they refusing contact or are they paying the lead tenant in Canada? Get a solicitor as already advised. Messy situation.

Also, are you renting entire property or room by room basis?

No, no bank details. They only rented the room.

Claw Hammer · 04-12-2019 12:43pm

Are there other tenants in the house?

itsthisyear · 04-12-2019 1:44pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Are there other tenants in the house?

Nope. Just the lonely sole!

Claw Hammer · 04-12-2019 2:31pm

itsthisyear wrote: »

Nope. Just the lonely sole!

Was it a subletting or an assignment? Did you take rent from the person after the previous tenant had gone?

itsthisyear · 04-12-2019 2:38pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Was it a subletting or an assignment? Did you take rent from the person after the previous tenant had gone?

Subletting I think! No money has changed hands. The apt was rented as a unit to the original tenant and I want to now let it again as a unit but because of this situation I can’t.

04-12-2019 2:44pm

I don’t know about others, but I’m struggling to follow what you are posting op.

How many tenants are in the apartment now? How many rooms/tenants are there? You said non paying tenant was paying rent to lead tenant, who sub let to this person, but you now seem to be saying that the non paying person is the only person there. What is the situation? Did the original lead tenant assign the lease to the new guy, or did he sub let and is continuing to pay his rent?

Claw Hammer · 04-12-2019 2:50pm

itsthisyear wrote: »

Subletting I think! No money has changed hands. The apt was rented as a unit to the original tenant and I want to now let it again as a unit but because of this situation I can’t.

Were the two people ever there simultaneously?

The_Conductor · 04-12-2019 3:17pm

How are you renting the unit by bedroom if the previous tenant was the only occupant?
I mean, you could do it- it just wouldn't make any sense to do so- as you're forfeiting the opportunity to let the unit as a whole...…….?

Either way- money has not changed hands- you need to advise the guy (or girl) that they are trespassing and have to vacate the premises.

I would also strongly advocate taking a case against the tenant who was legitimately there and gave this person the keys to the place.

You *need* to notify them immediately, in writing, to vacate the unit.

They are neither tenant nor licensee- and have not paid any rent (whatsoever) so they are trespassing. Don't get mixed up on 'giving them notice' etc- they have no rights whatsoever, including no right of notice- and need to be gotten out of there.

The tenant who gave them the key was a right stronzo for doing so- and should have a case taken against them.

itsthisyear · 04-12-2019 10:03pm

Dav010 wrote: »

I don’t know about others, but I’m struggling to follow what you are posting op.

How many tenants are in the apartment now? How many rooms/tenants are there? You said non paying tenant was paying rent to lead tenant, who sub let to this person, but you now seem to be saying that the non paying person is the only person there. What is the situation? Did the original lead tenant assign the lease to the new guy, or did he sub let and is continuing to pay his rent?

There was a lot of questions that I was answering. I really just wanted to know if someone refused to pay for their accommodation can they be identified somewhere. It went off into a saga :-) I’ve got my answer anyway and engaged with a solicitor today. The joys of being an accidental landlord! Thanks all for guidance.

mollycasey · 09-12-2019 2:35pm

Hi All,

I am hoping you might be able to help me.

I recently let out my house as i was purchasing a new property, however the sale has fallen thru and i have no alternative. Myself, my husband and our daughter are now living with my parents which is not idea. Because we need the property back for our own use can i issue notice to them now?

The lease in place is for 12 months from the beginning of November but it is only signed by one of the tenants and they only sent me back a picture of the signed page, not the full lease. Will this matter?

Thanks for reading.

09-12-2019 2:43pm

mollycasey wrote: »

Hi All,

I am hoping you might be able to help me.

I recently let out my house as i was purchasing a new property, however the sale has fallen thru and i have no alternative. Myself, my husband and our daughter are now living with my parents which is not idea. Because we need the property back for our own use can i issue notice to them now?

The lease in place is for 12 months from the beginning of November but it is only signed by one of the tenants and they only sent me back a picture of the signed page, not the full lease. Will this matter?

Thanks for reading.

Once they signed the lease you sent to them, the term contract is formed. Unfortunately, as it is a 12 month contract, you have no right to evict them before the term of the lease has expired, even if you need the house.

You may have to consider paying them to leave early.

mollycasey · 09-12-2019 2:56pm

Thanks for your quick response.

Paying them to leave might be an option...

Graham · 09-12-2019 3:07pm

Check the terms of the lease.

It wouldn't be unusual for a recently drafted lease to include grounds for early termination if for example you needed the property for your own occupation or you wanted to sell.

mollycasey · 09-12-2019 3:12pm

Graham wrote: »

Check the terms of the lease.

It wouldn't be unusual for a recently drafted lease to include grounds for early termination if for example you needed the property for your own occupation or you wanted to sell.

Hi Graham,

There is a piece in the lease that says the tenancy has to last 6 months before it can be terminated.

09-12-2019 3:21pm

That's neither here nor there. I suspect you are misreading it, but again, that would fly in the face of the legislation and you cannot sign away your rights (as a landlord or as a tenant) via a lease.

The 6 month thing is this: When you are a landlord and want to get rid of a tenant, there are only a few set reasons that you can do this for. You cannot just turn around and go "Oi, you, out of my gaff", for good reasons. However, you CAN do that if the tenancy is less than 6 months old. You still have to give them a valid notice period (28 days , I think) but you are well within your rights to say "sorry, not sorry, I want you gone by 10th January".

09-12-2019 3:42pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That's neither here nor there. I suspect you are misreading it, but again, that would fly in the face of the legislation and you cannot sign away your rights (as a landlord or as a tenant) via a lease.

The 6 month thing is this: When you are a landlord and want to get rid of a tenant, there are only a few set reasons that you can do this for. You cannot just turn around and go "Oi, you, out of my gaff", for good reasons. However, you CAN do that if the tenancy is less than 6 months old. You still have to give them a valid notice period (28 days , I think) but you are well within your rights to say "sorry, not sorry, I want you gone by 10th January".

You can’t do that if they have a 12 month fixed term lease. A fixed term lease gives the tenant additional entitlements on top of those afforded by the RTA, most notably, a right to rent the property for the term of the signed lease.

The_Conductor · 09-12-2019 3:42pm

Deleted User wrote: »

That's neither here nor there. I suspect you are misreading it, but again, that would fly in the face of the legislation and you cannot sign away your rights (as a landlord or as a tenant) via a lease.

The 6 month thing is this: When you are a landlord and want to get rid of a tenant, there are only a few set reasons that you can do this for. You cannot just turn around and go "Oi, you, out of my gaff", for good reasons. However, you CAN do that if the tenancy is less than 6 months old. You still have to give them a valid notice period (28 days , I think) but you are well within your rights to say "sorry, not sorry, I want you gone by 10th January".

A landlord can sign away their rights to their hearts content- and if they do- it is legally enforceable. A tenant, on the other hand, is protected from signing away rights- and any conditions in a lease can only infer greater rights on a tenant over and above those as prescribed in the Residential Tenancies Act.

If a landlord wants to hamstring themselves by giving a tenant additional rights- this is their prerogative to do so- however, if you imagine they can then pull the RTA out of their back pocket and try to invoke it in lieu of rights they have given a tenant in a formal lease- you are sorely mistaken.

09-12-2019 4:42pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

A landlord can sign away their rights to their hearts content- and if they do- it is legally enforceable. A tenant, on the other hand, is protected from signing away rights- and any conditions in a lease can only infer greater rights on a tenant over and above those as prescribed in the Residential Tenancies Act.

I genuinely wasn't aware of that, thanks.

Graham · 09-12-2019 4:49pm

Dav010 wrote: »

You can’t do that if they have a 12 month fixed term lease. A fixed term lease gives the tenant additional entitlements on top of those afforded by the RTA, most notably, a right to rent the property for the term of the signed lease.

Unless the lease contains break clauses and such clauses do not interfere with the entitlements afforded by the RTA.

mollycasey · 02-02-2020 12:17am

Graham wrote: »

Unless the lease contains break clauses and such clauses do not interfere with the entitlements afforded by the RTA.

Hi All, so I finally got the tenants out of my house we gave them compensation. They have now come and requested the months rent that they paid to date back as further compensation and advised they will contact threshold if it’s not returned, do you think they have any rights here?

Also the house was returned in a pretty bad state.

02-02-2020 12:52am

mollycasey wrote: »

Hi All, so I finally got the tenants out of my house we gave them compensation. They have now come and requested the months rent that they paid to date back as further compensation and advised they will contact threshold if it’s not returned, do you think they have any rights here?

Also the house was returned in a pretty bad state.

Tell them to p*ss off, threshold are a meaningless charity also so tell them to contact them for all you care, a stray cat has as much power as they do.

handlemaster · 02-02-2020 9:05am

mollycasey wrote: »

Hi All, so I finally got the tenants out of my house we gave them compensation. They have now come and requested the months rent that they paid to date back as further compensation and advised they will contact threshold if it’s not returned, do you think they have any rights here?

Also the house was returned in a pretty bad state.

Really sorry to hear. Give them nothing. They are not entitled to anything they actually owe you for damage.Tell them that you take this as harassment and if they make any further contact you will make a formal complaint to the Gardai and persue them for the bad etc. They have brass necks but with these kind of people it is all to common, the landlord is always left to swing.

mollycasey · 02-02-2020 10:26am

handlemaster wrote: »

Really sorry to hear. Give them nothing. They are not entitled to anything they actually owe you for damage.Tell them that you take this as harassment and if they make any further contact you will make a formal complaint to the Gardai and persue them for the bad etc. They have brass necks but with these kind of people it is all to common, the landlord is always left to swing.

Thanks for the replies they are now threatening legal action this morning! I think I will leave them waste money on a solicitor if they want as we have been more than fair with the compensation in order for them to leave the house.

davindub · 02-02-2020 10:29am

mollycasey wrote: »

Hi All, so I finally got the tenants out of my house we gave them compensation. They have now come and requested the months rent that they paid to date back as further compensation and advised they will contact threshold if it’s not returned, do you think they have any rights here?

Also the house was returned in a pretty bad state.

Yes they have the right to have the rent returned unless your offer of compensation was inclusive of any rent to be returned.

As regards "bad state of return", at a rtb case you would need to show damages in excess of the deposit held, ie keep the repair bills and that such damages was not wear and tear and further that such damages were not included in the offer of compensation.

mollycasey · 02-02-2020 10:37am

davindub wrote: »

Yes they have the right to have the rent returned unless your offer of compensation was inclusive of any rent to be returned.

As regards "bad state of return", at a rtb case you would need to show damages in excess of the deposit held, ie keep the repair bills and that such damages was not wear and tear and further that such damages were not included in the offer of compensation.

Their compensation was there deposit for the new property, there deposit back from my property and we covered all the moving costs so they didn’t even have to pack or unpack boxes.

02-02-2020 11:51am

mollycasey wrote: »

Thanks for the replies they are now threatening legal action this morning! I think I will leave them waste money on a solicitor if they want as we have been more than fair with the compensation in order for them to leave the house.

Im afraid the mistake you made was ever paying them a cent, I see that suggested on here and it really is a really bad idea.

davindub wrote: »

Yes they have the right to have the rent returned unless your offer of compensation was inclusive of any rent to be returned.
.

They what? Why on earth would anyone be entitled to have rent retuned. Insane to even suggest it.

02-02-2020 12:02pm

Maia Ashy Windsock wrote: »

Im afraid the mistake you made was ever paying them a cent, I see that suggested on here and it really is a really bad idea.

They what? Why on earth would anyone be entitled to have rent retuned. Insane to even suggest it.

I’m pretty sure the tenants had a fixed term lease, which the poster wanted to break. The tenants were under no obligation to leave early, so they would need an incentive to go.

mollycasey · 02-02-2020 12:05pm

Dav010 wrote: »

I’m pretty sure the tenants had a fixed term lease, which the poster wanted to break. The tenants were under no obligation to leave early, so they would need an incentive to go.

Thanks for all your replies. Yes there was a fixed term lease in place so this is why we offered compensation. They agreed to all of this but now that they have left they are looking for the months rent they paid to date back, which I am refusing as no one gets to live for free. They have threatened legal action and also to contact threshold and the rtb which they can go ahead and do.

Browney7 · 02-02-2020 12:38pm

mollycasey wrote: »

Hi All, so I finally got the tenants out of my house we gave them compensation. They have now come and requested the months rent that they paid to date back as further compensation and advised they will contact threshold if it’s not returned, do you think they have any rights here?

Also the house was returned in a pretty bad state.

What were the actual terms of the agreement you gave them to leave? Was it all verbal or written down? Did you agree to nullify the lease or terminate it?

mollycasey · 02-02-2020 12:41pm

Browney7 wrote: »

What were the actual terms of the agreement you gave them to leave? Was it all verbal or written down? Did you agree to nullify the lease or terminate it?

We agreed to terminating the lease by giving them their deposit back, deposit for the new property and to cover all their moving costs. All communication was done via email. The house has also been left in a bad state with bathrooms and bedrooms covered in mould due to them not ventilating the rooms and now they are saying it is a structural issue with the house. They also have drilled holes in walls which was never agreed and I am not deducting anything for this.

The_Conductor · 02-02-2020 12:54pm

You have it in writing.
Keep everything in writing.
If they say they're going legal- thats fine too.
It was stupidity giving them a 1 year lease, however, that is in the past.
They vacated the property, satisfied with the terms under which they were doing so.
You have this in black and white.
In your position I'd be suggesting that you lodge a case for the damage they caused- and make sure you have it detailed (pictures of the mould, the holes in the wall etc)- or at least threaten to do so.

They are chancing their arm- completely chancing their arm- however, you need to protect yourself at the same time.

Landlords rights

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