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Environmental effects of Farming

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    #32
    yosemitesam1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,943 ✭✭✭yosemitesam1


    Das Reich wrote: »
    So do you remember the big fire in 2010 on Bananal Island? Or the 1998 fire that Brazil had to employ more than 1.000 men to fight it. How is it only the last days people got worried about it, before Bolsonaro no one even know which continent Brazil is. And what you have to say about those fires in Spain and Portugal that every year burn thousands of hectares? Lets make some sanctions against them.

    I'm a bit suspicious of all the coverage it's been getting. Number of fires is up but overall fire activity is not up, similar to the 5 year average.
    The majority of it seems to be in the rondonia region which is where the forests are transitioning into grassland/Savannah. It's a different type of climate and land type compared to what most of us think of when we hear rainforest.
    How much of this could be reclearing areas that had scrub encroaching versus actual never previously touched forest would be interesting to know


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    #33
    Gawddawggonnit
    Registered Users Posts: 3,250 ✭✭✭Gawddawggonnit


    yosemitesam1 wrote: »
    I'm a bit suspicious of all the coverage it's been getting. Number of fires is up but overall fire activity is not up, similar to the 5 year average.
    The majority of it seems to be in the rondonia region which is where the forests are transitioning into grassland/Savannah. It's a different type of climate and land type compared to what most of us think of when we hear rainforest.
    How much of this could be reclearing areas that had scrub encroaching versus actual never previously touched forest would be interesting to know

    https://twitter.com/StaLuziaEsteio/status/1164728888385257475?s=20


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    #34
    Say my name
    Registered Users Posts: 11,115 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    As Ardal O Hanlon said this morning on radio 1 if Donald Trump came out this morning and said "I'm misogynist and racist". Nobody would believe him.

    That same Twitter poster Dawg that you posted there has thousands of acres and even tweeted from a cowboy rally cheering on Bolsonaro. Not exactly impartial.

    Meanwhile the tweets go on....

    https://twitter.com/gfse7en/status/1164819897878110208?s=20

    Bolsonaro has declared that NGO's have deliberately started the fires to make him look bad.


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    #35
    yosemitesam1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,943 ✭✭✭yosemitesam1


    Say my name wrote: »
    As Ardal O Hanlon said this morning on radio 1 if Donald Trump came out this morning and said "I'm misogynist and racist". Nobody would believe him.

    That same Twitter poster Dawg that you posted there has thousands of acres and even tweeted from a cowboy rally cheering on Bolsonaro. Not exactly impartial.

    Meanwhile the tweets go on....

    https://twitter.com/gfse7en/status/1164819897878110208?s=20

    Bolsonaro has declared that NGO's have deliberately started the fires to make him look bad.

    How many of those fires are actually burning vegetation?
    Of the fires burning vegetation, how many are being used to keep scrub under control and maintain farmland and how much is actually being used to actively clear new land?
    They're the questions that must be answered, this could be getting driven by vegans to undermine beef further.


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    #36
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    Say my name wrote: »
    As Ardal O Hanlon said this morning on radio 1 if Donald Trump came out this morning and said "I'm misogynist and racist". Nobody would believe him.

    That same Twitter poster Dawg that you posted there has thousands of acres and even tweeted from a cowboy rally cheering on Bolsonaro. Not exactly impartial.

    Meanwhile the tweets go on....

    https://twitter.com/gfse7en/status/1164819897878110208?s=20

    Bolsonaro has declared that NGO's have deliberately started the fires to make him look bad.

    Bolsonaro doesn't need any outside agencies to make him look bad, he can do it brilliantly well without any help at all.


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    #37
    Say my name
    Registered Users Posts: 11,115 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    yosemitesam1 wrote: »
    How many of those fires are actually burning vegetation?
    Of the fires burning vegetation, how many are being used to keep scrub under control and maintain farmland and how much is actually being used to actively clear new land?
    They're the questions that must be answered, this could be getting driven by vegans to undermine beef further.

    I know as much as yourself Sam.

    Couldn't care less about the vegan element. If it means scrapping the Mercosur deal and putting sanctions and giving beef and tillage in this country a few more years breathing space then let it roll. Bolsonaro brought it upon himself.


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    #38
    emaherx
    Registered Users Posts: 5,973 ✭✭✭emaherx


    yosemitesam1 wrote: »
    How many of those fires are actually burning vegetation?
    Of the fires burning vegetation, how many are being used to keep scrub under control and maintain farmland and how much is actually being used to actively clear new land?
    They're the questions that must be answered, this could be getting driven by vegans to undermine beef further.

    If it can cause a daytime blackout in a city thousands of kilometers away I think it's safe to say it's an environmental disaster no matter which way you look at it.


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    #39
    Say my name
    Registered Users Posts: 11,115 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    I doubt there's any conspiracy Sam. Vegan or otherwise.
    It just is....Greed and stupidity.

    https://twitter.com/NASA/status/1164302110244126720?s=20


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    #40
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,484 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Das Reich wrote: »
    So do you remember the big fire in 2010 on Bananal Island? Or the 1998 fire that Brazil had to employ more than 1.000 men to fight it. How is it only the last days people got worried about it, before Bolsonaro no one even know which continent Brazil is. And what you have to say about those fires in Spain and Portugal that every year burn thousands of hectares? Lets make some sanctions against them.
    This ignorance is astounding.
    Brazil are having a state sponsored destruction of the rainforest, very different to accidental fires.

    Literally Brazilian destruction has doubled in its rare since the current president took office he replaced ministers who pointed out that the destruction was wrong.


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    #41
    yosemitesam1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,943 ✭✭✭yosemitesam1


    _Brian wrote: »
    This ignorance is astounding.
    Brazil are having a state sponsored destruction of the rainforest, very different to accidental fires.

    Literally Brazilian destruction has doubled in its rare since the current president took office he replaced ministers who pointed out that the destruction was wrong.
    Not all the recorded fires are in the Amazon, it's the total in Brazil being quoted. Who knows whether its any worse than normal. The figures being thrown about in the media don't necessarily mean it's better, worse or different to normal.


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    #42
    Waffletraktor
    Registered Users Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭Waffletraktor


    The land is mostly only put to grass after a few crops of soya. What colour meat uses lots of soya as its primary protein source?


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    #43
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,484 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    yosemitesam1 wrote: »
    Not all the recorded fires are in the Amazon, it's the total in Brazil being quoted. Who knows whether its any worse than normal. The figures being thrown about in the media don't necessarily mean it's better, worse or different to normal.

    The rate of deforestation of the Amazon in Brazil is now at double the rate it was this time last year. This isn’t conjecture or rumours, it’s measured by satellite imagery which I believe is gathered and recorded by NASA.

    They had advertments in the newspapers in Brazil announcing a day of burning of the forests in support of their President.

    People can make excuses and ponder what might be happening but the actual measured destruction is there and has been recorded.


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    #44
    yosemitesam1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,943 ✭✭✭yosemitesam1


    _Brian wrote: »
    The rate of deforestation of the Amazon in Brazil is now at double the rate it was this time last year. This isn’t conjecture or rumours, it’s measured by satellite imagery which I believe is gathered and recorded by NASA.

    They had advertments in the newspapers in Brazil announcing a day of burning of the forests in support of their President.

    People can make excuses and ponder what might be happening but the actual measured destruction is there and has been recorded.

    Last years figures were well below the 5 year average, this year's a bit above it. Some of the pictures being circulated are of stubbles burning, go figure!


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    #45
    Say my name
    Registered Users Posts: 11,115 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    Yose you must be going to open a Brazilian shop!


    I'd say we all know what the end game is here.
    Emmanuel Macron is going to have this discussed at the G7 talks. The G7 are the only ones who'd have a bit of plamas for anything environmental.

    We're talking a task force going into to establish the world's first world natural park.
    The Brazilian States that were getting the aid from Germany and Norway are open to it as they said they'd deal directly with Germany and Norway instead of going through Bolsonaro. Watch this space.


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    #46
    Birdnuts
    Registered Users Posts: 9,638 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    yosemitesam1 wrote: »
    How many of those fires are actually burning vegetation?
    Of the fires burning vegetation, how many are being used to keep scrub under control and maintain farmland and how much is actually being used to actively clear new land?
    They're the questions that must be answered, this could be getting driven by vegans to undermine beef further.

    Bolasanario and Brazilian beef create their own image problems for the industry, leaving aside the Vegan fringe. What Irish beef farmers need to do is to highlight the clear blue water between beef production in the EU and the stuff coming from Brazil


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    #47
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,292 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    yosemitesam1 wrote: »
    Last years figures were well below the 5 year average, this year's a bit above it. Some of the pictures being circulated are of stubbles burning, go figure!

    There are cities in Brazil which are having periods dark as night from smoke, at midday, from fires burning as far away as Poland.

    1700 miles.


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    #48
    Birdnuts
    Registered Users Posts: 9,638 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    emaherx wrote: »
    If it can cause a daytime blackout in a city thousands of kilometers away I think it's safe to say it's an environmental disaster no matter which way you look at it.

    Very similar to what is happening to the Rainforests in Indonesia that are being cleared for Palm Oil production - smog regulary affects surrounding countries like Singapore and Bruni


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    #49
    greenfield21
    Registered Users Posts: 976 ✭✭✭greenfield21


    I'm going to do my bit and become a vegan.

    https://edition-m.cnn.com/2019/08/23/americas/brazil-beef-amazon-rainforest-fire-intl/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fedition.cnn.com%2F


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    #50
    Birdnuts
    Registered Users Posts: 9,638 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Say my name wrote: »
    A

    Bolsonaro has declared that NGO's have deliberately started the fires to make him look bad.

    He's also claimed that critisism of his policies by foriegn governments is "Imperialism" - a bit rich when you are encouraging the take over of Native Indian reservations in the Amazon by the beef mafia and other bandits


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    #51
    emaherx
    Registered Users Posts: 5,973 ✭✭✭emaherx


    Birdnuts wrote: »
    Very similar to what is happening to the Rainforests in Indonesia that are being cleared for Palm Oil production - smog regulary affects surrounding countries like Singapore and Bruni

    And I don't consider that any different either.


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    #52
    yosemitesam1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,943 ✭✭✭yosemitesam1


    Say my name wrote: »
    Yose you must be going to open a Brazilian shop!


    I'd say we all know what the end game is here.
    Emmanuel Macron is going to have this discussed at the G7 talks. The G7 are the only ones who'd have a bit of plamas for anything environmental.

    We're talking a task force going into to establish the world's first world natural park.
    The Brazilian States that were getting the aid from Germany and Norway are open to it as they said they'd deal directly with Germany and Norway instead of going through Bolsonaro. Watch this space.

    I don't doubt that there's issues that could be improved upon, but this sensationalism is very dangerous. It does nothing to solve any issues out there and when the media get bored. Who will they turn on next?


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    #53
    Say my name
    Registered Users Posts: 11,115 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    yosemitesam1 wrote: »
    I don't doubt that there's issues that could be improved upon, but this sensationalism is very dangerous. It does nothing to solve any issues out there and when the media get bored. Who will they turn on next?

    It's well founded sensationalism.

    I don't know. They could turn on those midget people..

    We'll see what happens after the G7 talks.
    It's more interesting than Boris anyways.

    Not you, ..but seeing what those right wing Brazilian nut jobs are coming up with online is entertaining too.


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    #54
    yosemitesam1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,943 ✭✭✭yosemitesam1


    https://www.science20.com/robert_walker/nasa_say_the_amazon_is_burning_at_below_average_rates_yet_many_news_stories_say_record_rates-240959


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    #55
    emaherx
    Registered Users Posts: 5,973 ✭✭✭emaherx


    yosemitesam1 wrote: »
    https://www.science20.com/robert_walker/nasa_say_the_amazon_is_burning_at_below_average_rates_yet_many_news_stories_say_record_rates-240959

    Still don't have any issue with practices over there being highlighted, intentional fires of that magnitude are an environmental disaster. You really would wonder about people worrying about burps from grass fed cattle here when you see what's going on in the rest of the world.

    We shouldn't be importing products produced in those regions be it meat or soy/grain based products.I would certainly have more respect for our governments speil about reducing our carbon footprint of their plans didn't just involve exporting our carbon footprint to countries with much higher footprints.


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    #56
    Gawddawggonnit
    Registered Users Posts: 3,250 ✭✭✭Gawddawggonnit


    yosemitesam1 wrote: »
    https://www.science20.com/robert_walker/nasa_say_the_amazon_is_burning_at_below_average_rates_yet_many_news_stories_say_record_rates-240959

    https://twitter.com/spikedonline/status/1164870059698937857?s=21


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    #57
    Say my name
    Registered Users Posts: 11,115 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    Meanwhile Bolsonaro is sending the military to the Amazonian regions to counter any decision which may arise from the G7 talks.

    Ireland and France are the only EU countries at present to call for the Mercosur deal to be scrapped over the current destruction.


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    #58
    yosemitesam1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,943 ✭✭✭yosemitesam1


    Gawddawggonnit wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/spikedonline/status/1164870059698937857?s=21

    Was managing a few Peruvians in aus, good hard working people who had very little starting off in terms of money, education or job opportunities at home. It's not really acceptable to be forcing many of those people into emigrating to do our ****ty jobs when the large scale destruction is almost always driven by big business


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    #59
    Das Reich
    Registered Users Posts: 736 ✭✭✭Das Reich


    Say my name wrote: »
    Meanwhile Bolsonaro is sending the military to the Amazonian regions to counter any decision which may arise from the G7 talks.

    Ireland and France are the only EU countries at present to call for the Mercosur deal to be scrapped over the current destruction.

    Would love if this french provokation would end the occupation and colonialism of French Guiana. We need also to remember that the African countries that are still explored by France such as Mali or Niger, have the worst standard of living of the world. Years ago Burkina Faso tried to liberate from French neocolonialism and president Tankara died. French colonialism is the worst form of colonialism.


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    #60
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    Say my name wrote: »
    Meanwhile Bolsonaro is sending the military to the Amazonian regions to counter any decision which may arise from the G7 talks.

    Ireland and France are the only EU countries at present to call for the Mercosur deal to be scrapped over the current destruction.

    He might have to send them to Angola and the Congo first, more fires burning there than Brazil.
    https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2019-08-23/more-fires-now-burning-in-angola-congo-than-amazon-maps?__twitter_impression=true


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    #61
    Say my name
    Registered Users Posts: 11,115 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »
    He might have to send them to Angola and the Congo first, more fires burning there than Brazil.
    https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2019-08-23/more-fires-now-burning-in-angola-congo-than-amazon-maps?__twitter_impression=true
    We're definitely phucked in this country now!! :eek:

    Angolan and Congon beef and butter in SuperValu..
    Ah I wouldn't be too worried about them fellas over there. Diseases and guns means they never get their houses in order.
    As for Brazil however, it's amazing what can be achieved by a right wing leader promising the Sun, moon and stars for all/the few against a big bad world!!


    https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/24/opinions/global-emergency-in-the-amazon-salazar-lopez-allen/index.html

    I still naively hope for this world first world natural park of the Amazon (not Brazil) takes hold in the imagination of the illuminati. Wouldn't that be some legacy.


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