DCM 2019 - Mentored Novices Thread

Treviso · 12-05-2019 9:16pm

Sorry for the long race report but I want to encourage every novice to report on races that they run. Its good to get your experiences down on screen, and will also, hopefully, help other runners in the thread.

Bweeng 5k report

Today was my 2nd 5k race, with my first being a parkrun in January. I headed into this morning with a bit of dread, knowing that I needed to suffer for over 3 miles to achieve my target. I ran my 1st parkrun in 23mins but my recent V02 max training runs had been around the 6.50min pace. Still, I didn't think I could sustain that for the entire distance. I settled on 7min miles pace.

Also, it's the 1st time my wife & 2 kids went to see me race. With my brother, sister, in-laws & cousins all involved with the race itself, there was a lot of pressure on the run! Arrived in good time, got my number and did some stretches while my girls were playing in the playground. Went off for a 2 mile warmup on the course. Majority of the course is out and back and noticed quite a wind blowing in on the way back. Course seemed good though, good amount of downhills sections compared to hills.

Walked to the startline and there was quite of lot of good quality runners there that I recognised. Startline was timezoned so I went into the sub 25min, towards the front. After the bagpipe player(!!) finished Amhran na bhFiann, we set off

Mile 1
First mile was a good downhill section with a sharp turn to the left which begins the out & back section. Started off really quickly, glanced down at my watch at about 200m & saw 5.xx min which had me worried, same timings towards the end of the hill section. I eased myself off and settled into a better pace. People started to pass me but i wasn't too worried. With a bit of a drag at the end of the mile, it ended up being 6.26min (my fastest ever mile)

Mile 2
The out and back section has a number of little drags & downhill sections. I had settled into a good pace, was suffering a bit after the first mile so tried to recover. I knew there was a strong headwind on the way back so was holding a bit back as well. Past my sister who was stewarding, but she never saw me! Waved to my nieces as I passed. Got to the U Turn and immediately felt the wind against me. Tried to duck behind some racers to get some shelter. This mile was 7 mins

Mile 3.1
Tried to push myself on a bit here, overtaking a few runners and trying to latch onto the next one in front. Was really feeling it at this stage. Passed my sister and again she missed me! There was one last upcoming hill and I knew from from warmup that once I got over it, it was all downhill from there. Reached the top really out of breath and slowly picked up the stride while getting my breath back. I was hurting all over but the crowds were in sight so I couldn't let them see me suffering. Down the hill & could see the finish line in the distance. Past my wife & kids who gave me loads of cheering & sprinted as fast as I could to the line. That mile was 6.50 with the .11 at 5.39

Chip time was 20.57 and a new PB - was delighted with it.

Overall feeling is the training is paying off and my endurance is rapidly improving. These 5k races are not that much fun but my goal is to go sub 20 at some stage. At least you recover quite quickly from them

As an aside, the Bweeng 5k was a fantastically run event with a really good course for a PB. I would recommend anyone in the Munster region to put it in their calendar next year. Goodie bag was great and I've never seen so many cakes/sandwiches on offer!! Next up is the Cork Half marathon in 3 weeks so hoping to get under 1hr40 there, which will be a tough ask

Thanks for reading!!

DBB · 12-05-2019 9:17pm

Ah bananaleaf, that's good to know!

It makes sense, the whole heart rate thing, and I've been assured that you just need to give it time, and be patient with it, because the speed will come... and look! You've already seen a pretty impressive relative improvement in a couple of months! The risk of injury, or burnout, seems to be quite a lot reduced by taking the slow, slow, steady approach. I'd never have believed it to be honest, but in practise, yep... seems to be true!
I will admit, I have always trained alone. I'm a rural dweller, and I like to just listen to the birds singing and to clear my head as I run, without feeling that I've got to keep up with anyone else

Mr. Guappa · 12-05-2019 10:47pm

So, just six weeks to go now until the training plans kick off. Use this time to get yourself used to running slower, and if needed, gradually bringing the mileage up towards that 20mpw mark.

Its great to see such interest in the thread already, and thanks to Treviso for his race report - super stuff! Feel free to do likewise after any races, or even a weekly update on how training is going if you like.

The links to the training plans in the OP have been updated with 2019 dates. The only significant change from 2018 is that the Frank Duffy 10 miler is a week earlier this year. Here are the links again: Boards Plan and Hal Higdon Novice 1 plan.

Great to see so many of you signed up to the Strava club already, and following each other. For anyone that missed it earlier, the link is here. When you apply to join, please pop either myself, Huzzah! or ReeReeG a PM with your strava name and we'll accept you into the group.

Looking at the paces on Strava and most of you are doing a decent enough job of slowing it down, but a few really need to take the paces down a notch. Easy means easy, not 5k pace + 30 seconds. Take another look at the McMillan calculator associated with the above plans, and you can aim for the slower end of the ranges provided for easy and long run paces. Even if you're currently training for a 5k or 10k race, your easy and LSR paces should still be nice and slow.

One of the things that struck me during the first week was that pretty much everyone cited injury as their biggest fear entering this training block. True easy paced running will help to guard against injury. Remember, you'll be doing more weekly mileage than you've done before, if all of this is done at too fast a pace your body will become tired quickly and more susceptible to injury. As some have mentioned earlier, getting to know your foam roller really well will help no end in keeping niggles fom becoming full blown injuries.

Strawberry Swan · 12-05-2019 11:36pm

As Mr Guappa and Skyblue have referenced, it's important to know what pace to do your easy runs at. If you don't have a recent race to reference, I'd highly recommend doing a 5k race, a park run would do the job perfectly. Training is done at current fitness levels rather than where you think you will be in a few months time.

py · 12-05-2019 11:44pm

Strawberry Swan wrote: »

As Mr Guappa and Skyblue have referenced, it's important to know what pace to do your easy runs at. If you don't have a recent race to reference, I'd highly recommend doing a 5k race, a park run would do the job perfectly. Training is done at current fitness levels rather than where you think you will be in a few months time.

Do you think it would be worthwhile recalibrating our training paces just before the full program starts with a solid 5-10Km race/parkrun?

Treviso · 13-05-2019 12:09am

py wrote: »

Do you think it would be worthwhile recalibrating our training paces just before the full program starts with a solid 5-10Km race/parkrun?

Yea, it would give you your current fitness level. If you have the choice of 5k or 10k, then do the 10k. Use the racing calculator to then adjust your pacing for each run that you do.

Bananaleaf · 13-05-2019 8:35am

Is it possible to run too slow?

ReeReeG · 13-05-2019 9:14am

Treviso wrote: »

Sorry for the long race report but I want to encourage every novice to report on races that they run. Its good to get your experiences down on screen, and will also, hopefully, help other runners in the thread.

Bweeng 5k report

Today was my 2nd 5k race, with my first being a parkrun in January. I headed into this morning with a bit of dread, knowing that I needed to suffer for over 3 miles to achieve my target. I ran my 1st parkrun in 23mins but my recent V02 max training runs had been around the 6.50min pace. Still, I didn't think I could sustain that for the entire distance. I settled on 7min miles pace.

Also, it's the 1st time my wife & 2 kids went to see me race. With my brother, sister, in-laws & cousins all involved with the race itself, there was a lot of pressure on the run! Arrived in good time, got my number and did some stretches while my girls were playing in the playground. Went off for a 2 mile warmup on the course. Majority of the course is out and back and noticed quite a wind blowing in on the way back. Course seemed good though, good amount of downhills sections compared to hills.

Walked to the startline and there was quite of lot of good quality runners there that I recognised. Startline was timezoned so I went into the sub 25min, towards the front. After the bagpipe player(!!) finished Amhran na bhFiann, we set off

Mile 1
First mile was a good downhill section with a sharp turn to the left which begins the out & back section. Started off really quickly, glanced down at my watch at about 200m & saw 5.xx min which had me worried, same timings towards the end of the hill section. I eased myself off and settled into a better pace. People started to pass me but i wasn't too worried. With a bit of a drag at the end of the mile, it ended up being 6.26min (my fastest ever mile)

Mile 2
The out and back section has a number of little drags & downhill sections. I had settled into a good pace, was suffering a bit after the first mile so tried to recover. I knew there was a strong headwind on the way back so was holding a bit back as well. Past my sister who was stewarding, but she never saw me! Waved to my nieces as I passed. Got to the U Turn and immediately felt the wind against me. Tried to duck behind some racers to get some shelter. This mile was 7 mins

Mile 3.1
Tried to push myself on a bit here, overtaking a few runners and trying to latch onto the next one in front. Was really feeling it at this stage. Passed my sister and again she missed me! There was one last upcoming hill and I knew from from warmup that once I got over it, it was all downhill from there. Reached the top really out of breath and slowly picked up the stride while getting my breath back. I was hurting all over but the crowds were in sight so I couldn't let them see me suffering. Down the hill & could see the finish line in the distance. Past my wife & kids who gave me loads of cheering & sprinted as fast as I could to the line. That mile was 6.50 with the .11 at 5.39

Chip time was 20.57 and a new PB - was delighted with it.

Overall feeling is the training is paying off and my endurance is rapidly improving. These 5k races are not that much fun but my goal is to go sub 20 at some stage. At least you recover quite quickly from them

As an aside, the Bweeng 5k was a fantastically run event with a really good course for a PB. I would recommend anyone in the Munster region to put it in their calendar next year. Goodie bag was great and I've never seen so many cakes/sandwiches on offer!! Next up is the Cork Half marathon in 3 weeks so hoping to get under 1hr40 there, which will be a tough ask

Thanks for reading!!

Great report and great racing Treviso! Serious chunk knocked off the 5k time since January too, well done. Have you been following a plan for the Cork HM?

Mr. Guappa · 13-05-2019 10:25am

DBB wrote: »

Eeek! I can barely believe I get to legitimately post in this thread, after a few years of reading mentored novices threads with envy, wishing I had the nerve all those novices had to commit myself to training for a marathon .
So, it is with a heady mixture of terror and delight that I've decided that 2019 is the year that I just bloody well do it... I got a little wave of adrenaline when I saw that this thread is now with us, because it makes it all more real!

So, here we go...
Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)

Yes, I have been an on-off runner for maybe 15+ years now, getting myself fit enough to run the women's mini marathon for charity each year since 2003ish? I would have done a few races in the lead-up to it, but too long ago now to be particularly relevant. My fastest 10km was 54:55 in... I dunno... 2010ish? Fastest 5km 24:xx, which was also a good number of years ago.

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do)

No

How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.

Since November-ish, I've built up to 4 runs per week.
Mondays: 7-8km, followed by a 30 min strength and conditioning session
Tuesdays: 5-6km
Thursdays: 7-8km, followed by another 30 min S&C session
Saturdays: LSR day, anywhere between 13-15km so far.
I'd also do at least one good, long, lively walk with the dogs during the week, and shorter walks with them every day.

All 4 runs are easy and slow. I am lucky in that I have a relation who's an elite endurance athlete who's been guiding me since February: I'm currently running to heart rate (max 140bpm), which I've found to be a great leveler in allowing me to gauge how I'm getting on over time.
It is also a bit frustrating, because I often want to run faster, but I've been quite disciplined with the assurance that good things will happen by keeping it ssssllloowwwww, and I'm starting to see times improving and feeling like I could readily run further after each run.
Critically, because running slowly makes long distance seem very manageable and relatively painless (so far), it has really helped me to get my head around the idea of running for 26.2 miles, which is what has been blocking any ideas of taking on a marathon I might have had over the years!

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?

Ooohhh... I just dream of finishing! If I was to have my arm twisted to come up with a time, 4hrs 30mins would be absolutely brilliant:o

How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?

I can comfortably enough continue running 4 days per week. I have been more-or-less following the Hal Higdon half-marathon plan to take me up to the Clontarf HM on July 7th, at which point I had planned to morph onto the HH marathon plan.
Does that sound like a plan?

What is your biggest worry/fear/doubt (if you have any!) in signing up?

Like others have said, my biggest worry is getting to the start line without any big dramas! I still have little mental struggles with the fact that my shortest training runs now are almost as long as my longest run ever! However, those doubts recede a bit with every LSR: during the most recent LSRs, I've run further than I've ever run in my life, and I'm feeling good afterwards

Why are you running this marathon?

For the challenge, because I just never believed I could! I also love chocolate, cake and cookies, but I don't love not being able to fit into my clothes, so this training is helping me be more disciplined with my diet, as well as burning calories!

Thank you to Mr. Guappa, Huzzah!, and ReeReeG for taking us on! Looking forward to getting to know you all, and my fellow novices, as the next few months pass!

Welcome along DBB! It seems like you're very much on the right track with regard to keeping it nice and slow! Is it the HH novice half marathon plan you're following? I just took a look at it there, and yes, it seems fine to finish that out and pick up the marathon plan in week 3. The HM plan has more mileage in those two weeks than the marathon plan.

Huzzah! · 13-05-2019 10:39am

Bananaleaf wrote: »

I've decided to go with the boards plan.

I was wondering if I could ask the following questions:

I will be doing a HM in Achill (hilly!) on 07 July. Can I switch weeks 2&3 and make the HM my long run? (Not planning on racing this one as I believe it's a killer)

I will be doing the South Dublin 10k and the DCM half. But instead of the Frank Duffy 10 I'm going to do the Kilcock 10mile the Sunday beforehand (18th Aug) Again, is it okay to switch weeks 8and 9?

Thanks

How long are your long runs currently? I don't see any huge problem in switching weeks two and three but want to make sure the 13 miles isn't a huge jump.

Your plan re weeks eight and nine looks good but we might re-visit closer to the time.

Huzzah! · 13-05-2019 10:48am

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Is it possible to run too slow?

We've very similar PBs

I also like to keep an eye on HR (rather than train exclusively by HR) to keep a cap on my paces.

If you've calculated your Max HR correctly and you've seen improved performances since implementing HR training, it would seem to me that you're not running too slowly.

The only caution I would note is that if you think you're going so slowly that your form has changed, then be careful.

Treviso · 13-05-2019 11:05am

ReeReeG wrote: »

Great report and great racing Treviso! Serious chunk knocked off the 5k time since January too, well done. Have you been following a plan for the Cork HM?

Thanks ReeReeG, I'm following a HM plan from P&D's faster road running book. It goes up to 30 miles a week.

GT Tonry · 13-05-2019 11:37am

Slow 25k jog /walk on the banks of the Royal canal yesterday, took 4.5 hrs to complete ( a lot of brisk walking involved). Aim is to get used to time on the feet, felt pretty ok afterwards, nothing an epsom bath could not sort out. Happy days.

Irishder · 13-05-2019 2:17pm

Hi All,
Some advice Needed! last week i was planning on doing 4 days running but i went to the hurling match yesterday and got sun burnt on my head so wasnt feeling up to it. Last weeks training is below:

Monday: 5 Miles @ 10:21 Min/Mile
Wednesday: 5 Miles @ 10:10 Min/Mile
Friday: 6.6 Miles @ 10:10 Min/Mile
Sunday: Plan was 10 miles at 11:00 Min/Mile.

Question is should i do the long run tonight or start the week as normal, really just want to build up the miles at this stage. I have a half marathon end of June and am building towards that.

ReeReeG · 13-05-2019 2:25pm

Irishder wrote: »

Hi All,
Some advice Needed! last week i was planning on doing 4 days running but i went to the hurling match yesterday and got sun burnt on my head so wasnt feeling up to it. Last weeks training is below:

Monday: 5 Miles @ 10:21 Min/Mile
Wednesday: 5 Miles @ 10:10 Min/Mile
Friday: 6.6 Miles @ 10:10 Min/Mile
Sunday: Plan was 10 miles at 11:00 Min/Mile.

Question is should i do the long run tonight or start the week as normal, really just want to build up the miles at this stage. I have a half marathon end of June and am building towards that.

Hope the hurling match was at least a win for your team

Something that will be strongly advised when you get into the plans is if you miss a run (it may happen, life can get in the way and that's ok), just let it go. Chasing miles isn't advised, plus it would throw out this week a lot i.e. you'd end up with 2 long runs in the week.

I would just start this week as normal. The HM is end of June? So you still have enough time to get the miles in your legs before then.

Mr. Guappa · 13-05-2019 3:08pm

GT Tonry wrote: »

Slow 25k jog /walk on the banks of the Royal canal yesterday, took 4.5 hrs to complete ( a lot of brisk walking involved). Aim is to get used to time on the feet, felt pretty ok afterwards, nothing an epsom bath could not sort out. Happy days.

Hi GT Tonry, previously you mentioned that your long run was up to 20/22km, would those runs have taken around 4 hours to complete as well?

passinginterest · 13-05-2019 3:15pm

In the spirit of posting race reports this was mine from yesterday;
Race Official Chip Time 38.21
Garmin: 5.01m@7.38 (38.15) AvgHR 174
Slotted in just ahead of the 40min pace with a primary goal to keep him behind me. Started the watch a bit late because I was looking for a matt rather than the gantry. Just before the first turn after a couple of hundred meters the 40min pacer came steaming past. I could hear his partner saying he was going too fast but it threw me a bit, the watch was showing 7.10 pace at this stage, I knew it was way too hot for me but didn’t want to let him go either so kept pushing beside them.
Eased a bit down the Terenure Road and I was determined to stay ahead of them. They were on my shoulder more or less for the first mile and it ended up being 7.33, I was planning on around 7.45 a mile if all went really well so I was worried, especially with the heat. Mentally decided to just try and settle now and not worry if I hit 7.50 or even 8.00. Saw the pace settling a bit but I didn’t want to get too comfortable so any time I felt someone in front was slowing a bit I pushed past. 7.44 for the second mile and definitely feeling it, again thinking don’t worry you’re banking time, no harm running a 7.50 or 8.00, but also thinking it turns downhill again at 3 so just relax into it. Remember seeing 8.00 on the watch at one point and then seeing 7.15 and thinking this is madness. I was annoying myself a bit with the inconsistency and really worried I’d just die once I passed 5k, 7.37 for mile 3, now I knew i had loads banked and again thought, save a bit, run 8.00 for mile 4 and save a bit for the last mile. But again I’d come behind someone, feel like they were slowing and push on again, pace fluctuating, definitely saw 8.00 but also 7.20’s again, eventually clocked at 7.40. I was working at my absolute limit, HR was in a zone I didn’t know existed but legs were still going and my breathing seemed less laboured than most around me. A lot of the last mile I was around female club runners from Crusaders and Rathfarnham. Stayed in this group swapping positions and pushing along each other. Didn’t have much left for the finish but put in a little spurt when the gantry eventually appeared, felt like the longest half a mile in history. 7.37 for mile 5. Absolutely knackered at the end don’t think I could have given anymore. Exceeded my best hopes.

aquinn · 13-05-2019 3:39pm

passinginterest wrote: »

In the spirit of posting race reports this was mine from yesterday;
Race Official Chip Time 38.21
Garmin: 5.01m@7.38 (38.15) AvgHR 174
Slotted in just ahead of the 40min pace with a primary goal to keep him behind me. Started the watch a bit late because I was looking for a matt rather than the gantry. Just before the first turn after a couple of hundred meters the 40min pacer came steaming past. I could hear his partner saying he was going too fast but it threw me a bit, the watch was showing 7.10 pace at this stage, I knew it was way too hot for me but didn’t want to let him go either so kept pushing beside them.
Eased a bit down the Terenure Road and I was determined to stay ahead of them. They were on my shoulder more or less for the first mile and it ended up being 7.33, I was planning on around 7.45 a mile if all went really well so I was worried, especially with the heat. Mentally decided to just try and settle now and not worry if I hit 7.50 or even 8.00. Saw the pace settling a bit but I didn’t want to get too comfortable so any time I felt someone in front was slowing a bit I pushed past. 7.44 for the second mile and definitely feeling it, again thinking don’t worry you’re banking time, no harm running a 7.50 or 8.00, but also thinking it turns downhill again at 3 so just relax into it. Remember seeing 8.00 on the watch at one point and then seeing 7.15 and thinking this is madness. I was annoying myself a bit with the inconsistency and really worried I’d just die once I passed 5k, 7.37 for mile 3, now I knew i had loads banked and again thought, save a bit, run 8.00 for mile 4 and save a bit for the last mile. But again I’d come behind someone, feel like they were slowing and push on again, pace fluctuating, definitely saw 8.00 but also 7.20’s again, eventually clocked at 7.40. I was working at my absolute limit, HR was in a zone I didn’t know existed but legs were still going and my breathing seemed less laboured than most around me. A lot of the last mile I was around female club runners from Crusaders and Rathfarnham. Stayed in this group swapping positions and pushing along each other. Didn’t have much left for the finish but put in a little spurt when the gantry eventually appeared, felt like the longest half a mile in history. 7.37 for mile 5. Absolutely knackered at the end don’t think I could have given anymore. Exceeded my best hopes.

Well done. I might have been the Crusader as I finished in 38:23. If I met you at the finish and said it was desperate then it definitely was me.

skyblue46 · 13-05-2019 3:42pm

aquinn wrote: »

Well done. I might have been the Crusader as I finished in 38:23. If I met you at the finish and said it was desperate then it definitely was me.

And as you said you might have been hearing lots of shouts at my J she may well have been the Rathfarnham runner...she finished in about 38:40

aquinn · 13-05-2019 3:45pm

skyblue46 wrote: »

And as you said you might have been hearing lots of shouts at my J she may well have been the Rathfarnham runner...she finished in about 38:40

Oh yeah, I had forgotten that already. How quickly I move on and left the race horror and memories behind.

skyblue46 · 13-05-2019 3:48pm

aquinn wrote: »

Oh yeah, I had forgotten that already. How quickly I move on and left the race horror and memories behind.

I just checked the results. It was indeed the three of you finishing in consecutive places. J's chip time was slower as she started closer to the front.

Swiper the fox · 13-05-2019 6:29pm

Hi all, first time marathoner in Dublin 2019, have been running for a little over a year, trained for the Limerick 6 mile in 2018 having watched and cheered the runners for years and promising that I'd do it 'next year' every time, started enjoying the early morning headspace shortly afterwards (all my running is done before 7:30 except at weekends.

Male, 44, about 80kg, played lots of sport when younger to a reasonably high level but had become quite unfit before the running.

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)

5k- 20:07. 12 Jan 2019
I feel I could go under 20mins but I don't like the distance so don't ever go to parkrun anymore
10k- 42:30 sometime in March
Half Marathon: 1:36 Great Limerick Run 2019

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do)
No
How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
4 runs a week approx., maybe 5. 45-55k
What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
3:30 is what I'm hoping for, 42k at 5mins per k feels achievable

How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?
No plan yet, should be able to do 5 sessions aweek
What is your biggest worry/fear/doubt (if you have any!) in signing up?
Injury

Why are you running this marathon?
to prove to myself that I can do it, still feels like a mad distance

passinginterest · 13-05-2019 6:54pm

aquinn wrote: »

Well done. I might have been the Crusader as I finished in 38:23. If I met you at the finish and said it was desperate then it definitely was me.

It’s a small world. Not sure if I spoke to anyone at the finish, it’s a bit of a blur, I remember lots of pain and dropping my badly needed bottle of water! Will say hi the next time. The finish video confirms that I looked like death, need to lose another stone, get a haircut and shave!

aquinn · 13-05-2019 10:05pm

passinginterest wrote: »

It’s a small world. Not sure if I spoke to anyone at the finish, it’s a bit of a blur, I remember lots of pain and dropping my badly needed bottle of water! Will say hi the next time. The finish video confirms that I looked like death, need to lose another stone, get a haircut and shave!

An aerodynamic haircut and shave makes you faster. Science!

DBB · 13-05-2019 10:32pm

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

Welcome along DBB! It seems like you're very much on the right track with regard to keeping it nice and slow! Is it the HH novice half marathon plan you're following? I just took a look at it there, and yes, it seems fine to finish that out and pick up the marathon plan in week 3. The HM plan has more mileage in those two weeks than the marathon plan.

Hiya Mr. Guappa,
Thanks a million for your guidance. Yes, it's the HH novice HM plan I'm sticking to (not like glue, but close enough

)
Speed-wise, to keep within my recommended heart rate, I'm now at anywhere between 12 and 13 mins per mile, but starting to note a few sub 12mins starting to appear. I also feel good whilst running most of the time, though I've discovered that I run far better first thing in the morning, and definitely better on an empty tummy... Serious trapped wind pains if I run within 3 or 4 hours of eating... But then again, I'm a bit of a martyr to my tummy anyway (diagnosed lactose intolerant... Before it became trendy

)

I know I have, and will have, lots of questions as we go along. This thread is the best, it's so cool to have people who want to help

Bananaleaf · 14-05-2019 12:02am

Huzzah! wrote: »

How long are your long runs currently? I don't see any huge problem in switching weeks two and three but want to make sure the 13 miles isn't a huge jump.

Your plan re weeks eight and nine looks good but we might re-visit closer to the time.

Sorry for delay in replying. Lately I haven't run any longer than 10 miles, and most recently my longest run was 14km 2 weeks ago.

Running slowly I am between 9 and 10min per km. Which is probably why I havent gone past 16k, as it's taking me 2.5hrs to get there and the long runs for me for the past while have been according to time rather than kms.

I think I would be fine to swap the weeks as I will be gradually upping my long runs in June ahead of the HM anyway. That said, I'm the novice so will heed what im told

GT Tonry · 14-05-2019 8:55am

Hi Mr Guappa,
No, the royal canal was more a fast walk rathar than a run, in the company of friends. Ended up doing 25K that day, time on the feet, beneficial to me as I do not intend to run the entire DCM, it will be a mixture on the day, but hopefully mainly running.

Huzzah! · 14-05-2019 9:17am

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Sorry for delay in replying. Lately I haven't run any longer than 10 miles, and most recently my longest run was 14km 2 weeks ago.

Running slowly I am between 9 and 10min per km. Which is probably why I havent gone past 16k, as it's taking me 2.5hrs to get there and the long runs for me for the past while have been according to time rather than kms.

I think I would be fine to swap the weeks as I will be gradually upping my long runs in June ahead of the HM anyway. That said, I'm the novice so will heed what im told

Yep - sounds good to me.

Mr. Guappa · 14-05-2019 10:19am

GT Tonry wrote: »

Hi Mr Guappa,
No, the royal canal was more a fast walk rathar than a run, in the company of friends. Ended up doing 25K that day, time on the feet, beneficial to me as I do not intend to run the entire DCM, it will be a mixture on the day, but hopefully mainly running.

Ah ok. Alarm bells started ringing when you mentioned 4.5 hours on your feet, that's an extreme length of time to be spending on your feet at any stage of marathon training, let alone before it starts! So, I was worried that it was a similar story every week, but it seems to have just been a one-off event, which is reassuring.

There's no need to go into the training thinking that you won't be able to run the whole thing either. Follow the plans, keep the training paces nice and sensible and you'll be well prepared.

passinginterest · 14-05-2019 10:20am

Quick question regarding training paces. I’m reassessing mine after Sunday’s 5 mile race. I’m starting a plan for the Clontarf Half on 6th July and then I’ll switch into the DCM plan. I’ve always used McMillan and found it ok, but I took a look at runfastcoach paces too out of curiosity and the suggested easy and very easy paces are vastly slower on that. My thinking at the moment is I’ll stick to the slower end of the McMillan suggestions, but curious if others have experience with other pace calculators and which they use?

ReeReeG · 14-05-2019 11:53am

passinginterest wrote: »

Quick question regarding training paces. I’m reassessing mine after Sunday’s 5 mile race. I’m starting a plan for the Clontarf Half on 6th July and then I’ll switch into the DCM plan. I’ve always used McMillan and found it ok, but I took a look at runfastcoach paces too out of curiosity and the suggested easy and very easy paces are vastly slower on that. My thinking at the moment is I’ll stick to the slower end of the McMillan suggestions, but curious if others have experience with other pace calculators and which they use?

Yeah, that was something I've noticed from having used both for pace parameters. I know the McMillan paces have served DCM novices well before, so I wouldn't worry about them being that bit faster than the runfastcoach ones, especially with your intention to stick to the slower end of the range.

If you're trying the new paces over the next couple of weeks, maybe assess how you're feeling at the end of the easy runs - do you feel like you could carry on at that same pace for another 40 mins or more etc? I would expect it to be fine however.

passinginterest · 14-05-2019 2:53pm

ReeReeG wrote: »

Yeah, that was something I've noticed from having used both for pace parameters. I know the McMillan paces have served DCM novices well before, so I wouldn't worry about them being that bit faster than the runfastcoach ones, especially with your intention to stick to the slower end of the range.

If you're trying the new paces over the next couple of weeks, maybe assess how you're feeling at the end of the easy runs - do you feel like you could carry on at that same pace for another 40 mins or more etc? I would expect it to be fine however.

Sounds very sensible. There’s a fairly significant increase in pace based on my five mile time. I think I’ll just stick to the slower end and see how it feels alright. Thanks.

shotgunmcos · 14-05-2019 3:39pm

Swiper the fox wrote: »

Hi all, first time marathoner in Dublin 2019, have been running for a little over a year, trained for the Limerick 6 mile in 2018 having watched and cheered the runners for years and promising that I'd do it 'next year' every time, started enjoying the early morning headspace shortly afterwards (all my running is done before 7:30 except at weekends.

Male, 44, about 80kg, played lots of sport when younger to a reasonably high level but had become quite unfit before the running.

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)

5k- 20:07. 12 Jan 2019
I feel I could go under 20mins but I don't like the distance so don't ever go to parkrun anymore
10k- 42:30 sometime in March
Half Marathon: 1:36 Great Limerick Run 2019

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do)
No
How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
4 runs a week approx., maybe 5. 45-55k
What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
3:30 is what I'm hoping for, 42k at 5mins per k feels achievable

How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?
No plan yet, should be able to do 5 sessions aweek
What is your biggest worry/fear/doubt (if you have any!) in signing up?
Injury

Why are you running this marathon?
to prove to myself that I can do it, still feels like a mad distance

Fair play for signing up for DCM and well done on 1:36 at Limerick! Certainly suggests that if you do the training over the next 5 months 3:30 is achievable and would be a fabulous debut marathon!

And from one early morning dawn runner to another, fair play getting up and getting it done first thing!

I went for 3:30 in my first marathon years ago and came up short 3:33 (DCM) because I cramped over the last few miles. Looking back I ran all my runs too fast (at 8min miles!) and didn't fuel properly on the day (mars bars!). Things that are easily fixed in hindsight

Off 5 days a week it is definitely still achievable but at 55k a week, now that would be a challenge. I'll leave it to the mentors to do their thing but wishing you the very best of luck!

jake1970 · 14-05-2019 5:42pm

Huzzah! wrote: »

Welcome, Treviso. First off, good luck on Sunday. Be sure and report back on how you get on.

If that's the P&L plan from Faster Road Running, I've followed it a couple of times myself. It should stand you in good stead for Cork.

I don't have the Advanced Marathoning Plan to hand but I'll have a wee look tonight. I'd be interested if some of the more experienced Boardsies could chip in on an opinion on using it for a first marathon.

I used the 12 week up to 55mile P&D plan when I was a novice in 2015. I achieved my target time(sub 3:20) using it.

The important thing with the P&D plans is to have a solid base before starting it. In 2015 I had 1000 miles in the legs that year before starting the plan and the previous year I had 1600 miles run for the year.

So Treviso if u have a good solid base built up over the last few years I would say give P&D a go, it will be tough but doable. Just a word of caution, the plans are aimed at more experienced runners and at the moment you are running only 30 miles per week. The plan gets pretty intense straight away, the ramp up in mileage and intensity can lead to injuries.

Huzzah! · 15-05-2019 9:58am

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Fair play for signing up for DCM and well done on 1:36 at Limerick! Certainly suggests that if you do the training over the next 5 months 3:30 is achievable and would be a fabulous debut marathon!

And from one early morning dawn runner to another, fair play getting up and getting it done first thing!

I went for 3:30 in my first marathon years ago and came up short 3:33 (DCM) because I cramped over the last few miles. Looking back I ran all my runs too fast (at 8min miles!) and didn't fuel properly on the day (mars bars!). Things that are easily fixed in hindsight

Off 5 days a week it is definitely still achievable but at 55k a week, now that would be a challenge. I'll leave it to the mentors to do their thing but wishing you the very best of luck!

All input gratefully accepted and much appreciated

I guess it's good to have a time goal for now but to keep in mind that it might be revised the closer we get to the marathon based on how well training has gone. I revised my own time down by 10 minutes and it was the best decision I made.

Lombardo123 · 15-05-2019 9:11pm

Hi all,

Have set myself up for doing the boards plan. For the next few weeks im just trying to get out the four days, so far so good.
Trying to get used to Wednesday being a day with some variety like the plan says, so tonight i went out and did the attached intervals
(warm up, then 8x500m with 1 min rest, then cool down)

I got giddy and went too quick but enjoyed the variety.. but when setting up the session i just landed on those intervals.
Whats a logical way to structure the intervals week by week, and more importantly - at what pace? Is there a formula?
If i was in the gym, i would do lets say:

5x5 at a weight 3x3 at a heavier weight 3x2 3x1 at the heaviest etc
Taking my 8x500 tonight with 1 min rest, would you go to:

9x500 w/1min rest 8x600 w/1min rest 8x500 w/50 seconds rest
Or are all of the above fine once it is changing? Any help appreciated as i can see the value in the short, sharp session - i dont feel achy and look forward to going again tomorrow already.

skyblue46 · 15-05-2019 9:19pm

Lombardo123 wrote: »

Hi all,

Have set myself up for doing the boards plan. For the next few weeks im just trying to get out the four days, so far so good.
Trying to get used to Wednesday being a day with some variety like the plan says, so tonight i went out and did the attached intervals
(warm up, then 8x500m with 1 min rest, then cool down)

I got giddy and went too quick but enjoyed the variety.. but when setting up the session i just landed on those intervals.
Whats a logical way to structure the intervals week by week, and more importantly - at what pace? Is there a formula?
If i was in the gym, i would do lets say:
5x5 at a weight 3x3 at a heavier weight 3x2 3x1 at the heaviest etc

Taking my 8x500 tonight with 1 min rest, would you go to:
9x500 w/1min rest 8x600 w/1min rest 8x500 w/50 seconds rest

Or are all of the above fine once it is changing? Any help appreciated as i can see the value in the short, sharp session - i dont feel achy and look forward to going again tomorrow already.

Hmm...ok so you are going to follow the Boards plan. Wednesdays are predominantly PMP runs. I'd do less of the short and fast stuff at faster than your 5k pace. It doesn't really offer you much in terms of marathon training or base building.

I'd be inclined to stick with the endurance work. A first marathon is about getting around as comfortably as you can. Times can be improved in subsequent marathons.

Kerbey · 15-05-2019 9:33pm

Hi Mr Guappa

Wasn’t going to post but then read a few novices like me. I’m just doing 3 miles 3 times per week but find it hard to get breathing under control. Harmon showing pace of between 10:51 and 11:51. Any tips much appreciated.
Well done and thanks on the Board

Lombardo123 · 15-05-2019 9:51pm

skyblue46 wrote: »

Hmm...ok so you are going to follow the Boards plan. Wednesdays are predominantly PMP runs. I'd do less of the short and fast stuff at faster than your 5k pace. It doesn't really offer you much in terms of marathon training or base building.

I'd be inclined to stick with the endurance work. A first marathon is about getting around as comfortably as you can. Times can be improved in subsequent marathons.

Absolutely made a b***s of interpreting what i was supposed be doing on Wednesdays. At least i learned it early in the process, no idea why i read it a certain way. Thanks.

skyblue46 · 15-05-2019 9:54pm

Lombardo123 wrote: »

Absolutely made a b***s of interpreting what i was supposed be doing on Wednesdays. At least i learned it early in the process, no idea why i read it a certain way. Thanks.

Yeah, pace is Predicted Marathon Pace. It is not really fast paced running. It is to get you used to running at the pace you will run on the day.

Mr. Guappa · 15-05-2019 10:10pm

Kerbey wrote: »

Hi Mr Guappa

Wasn’t going to post but then read a few novices like me. I’m just doing 3 miles 3 times per week but find it hard to get breathing under control. Harmon showing pace of between 10:51 and 11:51. Any tips much appreciated.
Well done and thanks on the Board

Hi Kerbey, you are very welcome! Stick around and you will find yourself learning loads.

Paces are going to be relative to your fitness levels, an 11:00 minute mile might fall in the easy range for some, but for others it might be considerably more work. Perhaps you are going too fast, and that's why you're finding it difficult to control your breathing. Most of your runs in marathon training should be at a pace at which you could comfortably hold a conversation.

Do you have a recent race time that you can use as a guide to determine what your easy pace should be?

Fraggle07 · 15-05-2019 10:30pm

Hi, a first time marathoner here. Thanks for this thread.
Looking forward to the journey....

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
Great Ireland Run 10k in 56mins and March half marathon in 2hrs 7.

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do)
No

How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
Get out about 3 times a week.

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
Getting to the start line injury free. Completing injury free. I have 4 hrs 30 in my head for some reason as a target time.

How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?
4-5 hopefully. I like HH Novice 1. Haven't looked into the boards one yet.

What is your biggest worry/fear/doubt (if you have any!) in signing up?
Having the time to get out and train 4-5 days a week. Getting injured.

Why are you running this marathon?
Once I achieved half marathon distance, it felt like the next logical goal.
Happened to cross paths with a few who ran it last year. I felt inspired by them so decided to sign up as well as last year's Boards thread.

kyomi · 15-05-2019 10:40pm

Huzzah! wrote: »

Welcome, kyomi. You've some nice PBs there and a really nice base. I like your goal for the marathon itself, too. We all have many fears heading into marathon training, whether it's the first or umpteenth time we've done it, so you're not alone. All we can do is control the controllables and train as well as we can for the day itself.

My main knowledge of Professor Noakes is from Marathon Talk, so I must get that book and have a read. If you like, you can post your plan and we can have one of the more experienced Boardsies take a look?

Thanks, Huzzah! Yes, I'll try and figure out a way of posting my plan (maybe in summary as it's a large Excel file).

I've found this thread really interesting so far and I'm intrigued to see other people are running by heart rate. This is something I've started to do over the last three weeks so I don't really have any idea yet whether it's working or not. I calculated a training heart rate of 134-144 based on the max heart rate from my Garmin and I'm trying to do my easy runs at a pace that allows me to stay below that. Some of the information online says that you should do all your runs at this pace, while others allow you to fit in faster sessions on some days. Can others share any websites about heart rate training that they found useful?

I do find that when I do my long runs at a super-slow pace (3 mins/mile slower than my 5K pace) I feel less exhausted and more functional for the remainder of the day. If this keeps up it will make marathon training a lot easier (although a lot more lonely, as most of my running pals run a lot faster than I do!).

When it comes to long runs, though, I feel like there must be a point at which the additional time on your feet due to running at such a slow pace must cancel out any energy benefits from keeping your heart rate low?

Mr. Guappa · 16-05-2019 1:04am

Fraggle07 wrote: »

Hi, a first time marathoner here. Thanks for this thread.
Looking forward to the journey....

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
Great Ireland Run 10k in 56mins and March half marathon in 2hrs 7.

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do)
No

How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
Get out about 3 times a week.

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
Getting to the start line injury free. Completing injury free. I have 4 hrs 30 in my head for some reason as a target time.

How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?
4-5 hopefully. I like HH Novice 1. Haven't looked into the boards one yet.

What is your biggest worry/fear/doubt (if you have any!) in signing up?
Having the time to get out and train 4-5 days a week. Getting injured.

Why are you running this marathon?
Once I achieved half marathon distance, it felt like the next logical goal.
Happened to cross paths with a few who ran it last year. I felt inspired by them so decided to sign up as well as last year's Boards thread.

Hi Fraggle07, welcome!

You're right to look forward to the journey. I enjoyed the training so much last year - ticking off runs as I completed them, running farther than I'd ever ran in a day, or a week. It's not just about one day in October, the path we take there gives a lot of satisfaction too.

HHN1 seems like a good fit. For now, try to work on getting into the regular routine of running 4 days a week, the mileage doesn't need to be spectacular.

You don't mention what type of mileage you cover in a typical week? How long have you been running?

Mr. Guappa · 16-05-2019 4:43am

You may have noticed that we’ve occasionally mentioned the importance of slowing down :pac:
I just wanted to explore some of the reasons for this a little bit.

It sounds counter-intuitive – run slower to get faster. But it works!
Running at any distance is a largely aerobic event, but at marathon distance this is especially true. Even for a 10km race, 90% of the energy required to run the race is produced via aerobic metabolism.

We achieve a strong aerobic base through lots and lots of slow, easy paced running (aerobic exercise). A strong aerobic system basically means that your body is supplying enough oxygen to your muscles.

Easy running strengthens the aerobic system and means that your body can withstand more time running and, importantly, easy running also means minimal recovery time.

Regular aerobic training produces muscular adaptations that help your body to utilize oxygen, preserve glycogen stores by using fat for fuel, and generally become more efficient, helping you to better manage longer distances.

When you run too fast, you cross the threshold into anaerobic exercise and you are no longer building that aerobic engine. You are also sacrificing future workouts as your body will not be sufficiently recovered to get the most from the next run.

Hopefully this will sink in for some more of you. There are loads of articles available on this, such as here

TLDR: SLOW DOWN!

Fraggle07 · 16-05-2019 7:06am

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

Hi Fraggle07, welcome!

You're right to look forward to the journey. I enjoyed the training so much last year - ticking off runs as I completed them, running farther than I'd ever ran in a day, or a week. It's not just about one day in October, the path we take there gives a lot of satisfaction too.

HHN1 seems like a good fit. For now, try to work on getting into the regular routine of running 4 days a week, the mileage doesn't need to be spectacular.

You don't mention what type of mileage you cover in a typical week? How long have you been running?

Thanks Mr.Guappa.
I did 100 mile challenge in March so averaged 25 a week then. It's slipped since then to about 10 to 15. I have been running about 3 years.

Mr. Guappa · 16-05-2019 7:27am

Fraggle07 wrote: »

Thanks Mr.Guappa.
I did 100 mile challenge in March so averaged 25 a week then. It's slipped since then to about 10 to 15. I have been running about 3 years.

10-15 miles per week is grand at this stage. Keep it consistent, and gradually add a little mileage building up towards 20 per week before the plans start, and you'll be well set. Take a look at the boards plan too, see what you make of it.

kilns · 16-05-2019 8:37am

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

You may have noticed that we’ve occasionally mentioned the importance of slowing down :pac:
I just wanted to explore some of the reasons for this a little bit.

It sounds counter-intuitive – run slower to get faster. But it works!
Running at any distance is a largely aerobic event, but at marathon distance this is especially true. Even for a 10km race, 90% of the energy required to run the race is produced via aerobic metabolism.

We achieve a strong aerobic base through lots and lots of slow, easy paced running (aerobic exercise). A strong aerobic system basically means that your body is supplying enough oxygen to your muscles.

Easy running strengthens the aerobic system and means that your body can withstand more time running and, importantly, easy running also means minimal recovery time.

Regular aerobic training produces muscular adaptations that help your body to utilize oxygen, preserve glycogen stores by using fat for fuel, and generally become more efficient, helping you to better manage longer distances.

When you run too fast, you cross the threshold into anaerobic exercise and you are no longer building that aerobic engine. You are also sacrificing future workouts as your body will not be sufficiently recovered to get the most from the next run.

Hopefully this will sink in for some more of you. There are loads of articles available on this, such as here

TLDR: SLOW DOWN!

So even a short 5km lunch time run should be run at slower pace than what you normally do it in? Or would it have much effect?

Mr. Guappa · 16-05-2019 2:40pm

kilns wrote: »

So even a short 5km lunch time run should be run at slower pace than what you normally do it in? Or would it have much effect?

Correct... it should be run at your easy pace. It should feel like a "what the hell is the point of this?" pace. One run on it's own won't have a massive effect, but it's the accumulation of slow runs over the course of a number of weeks that lead to improvements. Patience is an important trait in a runner.

Baby75 · 16-05-2019 10:14pm

So great to see this thread up and running and off to a flying start as well

The very best of luck to this year's novices and mentors

I was a 2017 novice and loved it, I missed out last year due to injury but hoping to be running this year

I will be following with interest

DCM 2019 - Mentored Novices Thread

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