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A Working Definition of Hate Crime - Garda
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Harvey Weinstein wrote: »You think patriotism is a bad thing?
in itself, absolutely not no .
however, when someone uses patriotism and being a patriot as their excuse for attacking people whether it be immigrants or so on, then that is bad and they should be challenged. not criminalized though, unless they engage in violence or try to incite violence.Reads like it could be a field day for the perpetually offended.
perhapse so, but i can only hope that the gardai will use common sense rather then going down the uk route.
mind you in my view such legislation is dangerous anyway.
not just because of the victim's, or anothers ability to decide as to whether a crime is a hate crime, but the fact that ultimately it creates a 2 teer victim system where you have say, 2 crimes with more or less the same characteristics, but one was committed on the basis of someone being black or gay for example, whereas the other was committed because of something else.
in the uk, i believe the cps can apply for a sentence uplift where a crime is deemed to be a hate crime. so if 2 crimes more or less have the same characteristics, then the person who committed the hate crime, could end up getting a higher sentence because of that, even though say, both victims could have had the same and very serious injuries.ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.
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Stop moaning ffs wrote: »TLDR- he’s not a racist. But....
You find fundraising for terrorists in Ireland ' Hilarious '. You lost your moral high ground.0 -
end of the road wrote: »perhapse so, but i can only hope that the gardai will use common sense rather then going down the uk route.
mind you in my view such legislation is dangerous anyway.
not just because of the victim's, or anothers ability to decide as to whether a crime is a hate crime, but the fact that ultimately it creates a 2 teer victim system where you have say, 2 crimes with more or less the same characteristics, but one was committed on the basis of someone being black or gay for example, whereas the other was committed because of something else.
in the uk, i believe the cps can apply for a sentence uplift where a crime is deemed to be a hate crime. so if 2 crimes more or less have the same characteristics, then the person who committed the hate crime, could end up getting a higher sentence because of that, even though say, both victims could have had the same and very serious injuries.
Such legislation as what's being suggested here is far too vague in its definition and should never make it into law. I can easily see this being used to shut down any sort of valid criticism if the so-called "victim" is the one who gets to decide if it's a hate crime or not.
Chelsea Russell posted the lyrics of a rap song on twitter in memory of a dead neighbour, and it was a cop who was "offended" which led to Russell being convicted of a hate crime.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59ix0kWJOqM0 -
If this is similar to the UK, then people can report them as hate crimes (and not just crimes) because of the perceived motivation, but that motivation still needs to be proven in court for it to become a hate crime, although they might be convicted of a non-hate crime anyway.
I think that's the UK system, but might be wrong about it.
I believe the precedent has been set by the Mark Meechan and Chelsea Russell cases that the offence that was taken is deemed the proof of a crime in the UK. In the case of Meechan the judge ruled the context that his video was a joke was irrelevant and cited the offence taken by the Jewish community.
PF vs Meechan judiciary of Scotland.
This should scare people.
-Judges Ruling“The evidence before this court was that the video was viewed as grossly offensive within Jewish communities in Scotland and that such material tended to normalise anti-Semitic attitudes and provoke further unpleasant anti-Semitic messages and as such, this video using menacing language, led to great concern. The reaction by employers in the local area suggests that not only Jewish people found this material highly offensive."
[...]
“The fact that you claim in the video, and elsewhere, that the video was intended only to annoy your girlfriend and as a joke and that you did not intend to be racist is of little assistance to you. A joke can be grossly offensive0 -
Such legislation as what's being suggested here is far too vague in its definition and should never make it into law. I can easily see this being used to shut down any sort of valid criticism if the so-called "victim" is the one who gets to decide if it's a hate crime or not.
oh i agree. i'm very much against this legislation myself, however i suspect it is a given that it will be introduced unfortunately, hence my hope that some sort of common sense would be used.Chelsea Russell posted the lyrics of a rap song on twitter in memory of a dead neighbour, and it was a cop who was "offended" which led to Russell being convicted of a hate crime.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59ix0kWJOqM
that's even worse.
a cop should know better then to be wasting time and resources like this.ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.
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Sounds bad but there is sort of a precedent there in that the assault and self defence law is worded similarly.. what is believed rather than might objectively be the case0
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https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019/1009/1082167-hate-crime/
"The strategy defines a hate crime as any criminal offence perceived by the victim or any other person to be motivated by hostility or prejudice based on disability, race, colour, nationality, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation or gender."
No way will this be abused in any way. Especially by the self imposed victims out there.0 -
No way will this be abused in any way. Especially by the self imposed victims out there.
I'm sure the rational and reasonable people in charge will see through this sort of crazy hysteria... oh wait...
Varadkar"Hate legislation is in preparation in Ireland"
"It’s always a difficult one to get right, because you never want to be in a position where you’re stifling free speech, and one person’s hate speeches is another person’s free speech"
I wonder which position he ends up settling on as he's currently on the fence it seems.0 -
Harvey Weinstein wrote: »This is to shut people up about immigration, migrant crime and anything similar..its as simple as that.
Of course, is it not obvious it’s all in conjunction? The “Ryans” was the moment they decided to pounce. Well there goes our freedoms, there’s a simple equation here the more immigrants you welcome the more racists you’ll create. The more racism you’ll stoke up ~ the more “free” you project yourself and your country to be as thee most happening partay on the block to which all and sundry are invited the more the tourniquet will ultimately get tightened around your neck. Don’t go saying boo to that ghost now, the strategy defines a hate crime as anything perceived by the victim or any other person as prejudice...
Oh, woe betide a face melting blast of perceived prejudice. Real hairdryer treatment of a hate crime right there. I must confess as a middle aged man who grew up in the generation extreme I cannot deny that I’m finding it very hard to adapt to the countercultural reactionary movement which is snowflakism. It is that great other unexplored polar extreme that which I could never have foreseen.0 -
Hopefully the common/garden work-shy Garda will fob off the majority of the type of loons who will try to trump up this bullcrap with the old "that sounds like a civil matter" guff.0
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This is pandering to the Migrant and ''refugee'' quangos in Ireland. Only last year the Refugee Council of Ireland put up a site that allowed people to anonymously post that they were victims of hate crimes/racial abuse without any proof and without those alleged crimes being reported. It's bs but they need to justify their government funding, I mean they have bills to pay and large salaries to collect for themselves. Racial harmony means they're out of a nice fat cat job so they need to continue to peddle the racism lie.0
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This is the type of thing going on in the UK right now with police being 'trained' by the likes of Stonewall...
More than ironic, the 'crime' literally is the Oxford dictionary definition of woman.
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/10/a-transphobic-crime-wave-has-hit-oxford/
A ‘transphobic’ crime wave has hit Oxford
"Oxford is suffering a crime wave. Police are investigating numerous serious offences over more than six months. Thames Valley Police has issued this sweeping statement about unacceptable acts in the city:
“Thames Valley Police is appealing for witnesses following a number of public offences in Oxford.
Officers are investigating a large number of offensive stickers that have been placed across Oxford city centre containing transphobic comments. It is believed they started appearing in March 2019 within the High Street, Catte Street and Parks Road area.
Investigating officer PC Rebecca Nightingale based at St Aldates police station said: “Behaviour like this is not acceptable and we take incidents of this nature very seriously.
“I am appealing for anyone who may of witnesses these stickers being placed around the city or anyone who has information that may assist our investigation to call the non-emergency number 101, quoting reference 43190163238 or report online.
“Alternatively, you can contact the independent charity Crimestoppers 100% anonymously on 0800 555 111.”
Sounds serious, eh? Makes you wonder what sort of hateful, poisonous messages were on those stickers. It must be something pretty horrible, to prompt a police force to make an appeal like this, right? Maybe those stickers were inciting violence? Or perhaps they were encouraging people to otherwise break the law?
Oddly, Thames Valley Police didn’t explain in that dramatic statement exactly what sort of vile and hateful messages are on those “offensive” stickers. Even more oddly, when I asked the force what those stickers say, a press officer told me “the content and appearance of the stickers is not suitable for sharing.”
Quite how the poor people of Oxford are supposed to respond to this I don’t know: their police force have told them that a rash of offensive, apparently illegal stickers has appeared in the city and asked for information about who might be responsible. Yet the police won’t actually say what those stickers say or what they look like. So how are civic-minded Oxonians supposed to know precisely which wicked words and harmful ideas they should be reporting to the constabulary?
Fortunately, the Oxford Mail did a bit of reporting and appear to have established the horrifying truth.
The “offensive” and “transphobic” messages on those stickers, those terrible, hateful stickers now under active police investigation apparently include these:
“Woman: noun. Adult human female”
And:
“Women don’t have penises”
Look at that Thames Valley statement again. It states clearly that “public offences” have been committed because the words on the stickers are “offensive”.
Let us celebrate the fact that a police force is devoting resources to tracking down the awful people who have apparently broken the law by stating that “woman” means “adult human female” and that “women don’t have penises”.
Let us all think very hard about what it means that the police are now actively encouraging people to report as criminals anyone who displays those words in public. Let us thank goodness that Thames Valley Police have demonstrated for all to see what tackling the scourge of transphobia really means for our society.
And just in case you’re wondering, no, this is not a joke. It’s very serious."0 -
I'm sure a certain minority won't go abusing this proposed legislation0
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This is the type of thing going on in the UK right now with police being 'trained' by the likes of Stonewall...
More than ironic, the 'crime' literally is the Oxford dictionary definition of woman.
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/10/a-transphobic-crime-wave-has-hit-oxford/
A ‘transphobic’ crime wave has hit Oxford
"Oxford is suffering a crime wave. Police are investigating numerous serious offences over more than six months. Thames Valley Police has issued this sweeping statement about unacceptable acts in the city:
“Thames Valley Police is appealing for witnesses following a number of public offences in Oxford.
Officers are investigating a large number of offensive stickers that have been placed across Oxford city centre containing transphobic comments. It is believed they started appearing in March 2019 within the High Street, Catte Street and Parks Road area.
Investigating officer PC Rebecca Nightingale based at St Aldates police station said: “Behaviour like this is not acceptable and we take incidents of this nature very seriously.
“I am appealing for anyone who may of witnesses these stickers being placed around the city or anyone who has information that may assist our investigation to call the non-emergency number 101, quoting reference 43190163238 or report online.
“Alternatively, you can contact the independent charity Crimestoppers 100% anonymously on 0800 555 111.”
Sounds serious, eh? Makes you wonder what sort of hateful, poisonous messages were on those stickers. It must be something pretty horrible, to prompt a police force to make an appeal like this, right? Maybe those stickers were inciting violence? Or perhaps they were encouraging people to otherwise break the law?
Oddly, Thames Valley Police didn’t explain in that dramatic statement exactly what sort of vile and hateful messages are on those “offensive” stickers. Even more oddly, when I asked the force what those stickers say, a press officer told me “the content and appearance of the stickers is not suitable for sharing.”
Quite how the poor people of Oxford are supposed to respond to this I don’t know: their police force have told them that a rash of offensive, apparently illegal stickers has appeared in the city and asked for information about who might be responsible. Yet the police won’t actually say what those stickers say or what they look like. So how are civic-minded Oxonians supposed to know precisely which wicked words and harmful ideas they should be reporting to the constabulary?
Fortunately, the Oxford Mail did a bit of reporting and appear to have established the horrifying truth.
The “offensive” and “transphobic” messages on those stickers, those terrible, hateful stickers now under active police investigation apparently include these:
“Woman: noun. Adult human female”
And:
“Women don’t have penises”
Look at that Thames Valley statement again. It states clearly that “public offences” have been committed because the words on the stickers are “offensive”.
Let us celebrate the fact that a police force is devoting resources to tracking down the awful people who have apparently broken the law by stating that “woman” means “adult human female” and that “women don’t have penises”.
Let us all think very hard about what it means that the police are now actively encouraging people to report as criminals anyone who displays those words in public. Let us thank goodness that Thames Valley Police have demonstrated for all to see what tackling the scourge of transphobia really means for our society.
And just in case you’re wondering, no, this is not a joke. It’s very serious."
Well when you have anybody and everybody encouraged to report something they don't like as a hate crime it's obvious that the reports will increase.
Let's look at what's happening in the UK because they have these laws in place for a couple of years now. An article in todays London Times states that this [URL="? https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/social-media-blamed-for-rise-in-racial-and-transgender-hate-crimes-pd2pdqjdg"]increase in hate crimes[/URL]* is all down to the social media echo chamber.An increase in racial and transphobic abuse has driven the number of hate crimes reported to more than 100,000 a year for the first time.
Hate crime allegations have more than doubled in five years, Home Office figures show. There were 103,300 recorded by police in England and Wales in 2018-19, up 10 per cent in a year and twice as many as in 2012-13.
Three quarters of reported offences were race hate crimes, which rose 11 per cent to 78,000, but the biggest increase was in transgender hate crimes, which rose 37 per cent to 2,330. Sexual orientation hate crime allegations went up 25 per cent to 14,400, religious hate offences rose 3 per cent to 8,500 and those linked to disability 14 per cent to 8,200. . . . Lord Evans of Weardale, chairman of the committee on standards in public life, said that social media was contributing to fuelling hate incidents: “It is much easier to make your voice heard than it was twenty years ago when you had to write a letter. It is instantaneous and anonymous. There is also a sort of echo chamber effect
In other news water is wet.
Meanwhile in the UK more resources are being diverted to this thought crime while little things like 2 in 3 burglaries are not investigated anymore.TWO thirds of burglaries are not properly investigated because police cannot cope with the increase in crime on Britain’s streets. . . The number of unsolved cases has spiked form 47 percent to 64 percent in the past two years and in some areas nine out of 10 cases are closed without any action.
Burglary is on the rise again after years of decline with more than 400,000 crimes recorded last year and about half of those took place at people’s homes.
Police forces are cash strapped leading to decisions to stop responding to non-emergency burglary reports in person. . .
Three years ago the police force in Leicestershire were criticised for introducing a scheme where they only responded to burglaries with even numbers.
And last year the Met was slammed when it announced it would no longer to respond to low level crimes, which includes burglary, if the suspect could not be easily identified and if the victims were not in danger.
Justice experts have warned that these policies only embolden burglary and it directly leads to a surge in crime.
So diverting resources from traditional policing to things someone says on twitter also hurts society as a whole. Unless you believe burglary is OK and doesn't affect society negatively.When most of us say "social justice" we mean equality under the law opposition to prejudice, discrimination and equal opportunities for all. When Social Justice Activists say "social justice" they mean an emphasis on group identity over the rights of the individual, a rejection of social liberalism, and the assumption that unequal outcomes are always evidence of structural inequalities.
Andrew Doyle, The New Puritans.
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Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »Only if you can prove that she called you that because of your parents marital situation at the time of your birth.
Dickhead might be better as it's making male genitalia as an insult.
Or saying men are creating an unsafe environment for women as a whole, imo, would fit the bill. Such as rape culture etc as its about men as a whole.0 -
I don't believe that Ireland has a racism problem. I think most Irish people have a live and let live attitude and just want to get on with their lives. What people are annoyed about is a broken system that they're paying for that allows anyone who isn't white to rock up in Ireland and claim asylum, no matter how ridiculous their claim is. They are annoyed that they're looking at houses in their own neighbourhood occupied by scam artists from Nigeria and other African countries, who don't work or who work cash in hand in the black economy(no pun intended) and who are paying little if anything for the rent of the house while Paddy and Mary get up and go to work every day to pay the Mortgage, the electricity bill and put food on the table.
They're angry that when they call out that bs they are labelled as being racist. It's very difficult to look at Abdul and Fatima and they're brood from Pakistan having everything handed to them when Paddy and Mary can't afford to start a family or maybe they can't afford a second child because they're paying for everything themselves. People are angry that they're paying for the upkeep of non nationals with bogus stories and as long as that continues then the anger is going to grow. If people are here legally and contributing financially, not being a burden on the taxpayer then Irish people don't have a problem with it, as long as they leave the Dark Ages religious practices back in the Desert where it belongs.0
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