Would you buy a diesel car now?

Dakota Dan · 24-02-2020 12:14am

Top_Guy wrote: »

With it looking like the Greens will come into power, I've heard lots of people say that the tax on diesels will become prohibitively expensive in the next few years.

I'm in the market for a new car at the moment and theres a lot of diesels knocking around - however I'm not sure if I should take the plunge or not. Would you buy a diesel still? Interested in hearing peoples opinions on this.

If the Greens come into power I'd advise you to buy a donkey and cart.

shadydestroyer · 24-02-2020 12:14am

tuxy wrote: »

I don't think petrol or diesel is needed to cover that distance.

Definitely not going electric anyway! Not a hope.

There not going to put up the tax on current Diesels or even new Diesels.
Possibly what I can see happening is a levy on the price of Diesel and make it more expensive than petrol. Maybe 10C more in the not the too distant future.

tuxy · 24-02-2020 12:16am

shadydestroyer wrote: »

Definitely not going electric anyway! Not a hope.

I'd agree with that, electricty would not be needed unless to compensate for some kind of disability.

Dakota Dan · 24-02-2020 12:19am

corks finest wrote: »

No,as a hybrid owner no need

Have you covered the initial extra cost over a diesel yet? BTW the greens are also demonising hybrids.

shadydestroyer · 24-02-2020 12:19am

tuxy wrote: »

I'd agree with that, electricty would not be needed unless to compensate for some kind of disability.

Explain that if you wouldn't mind cause I'm lost.

elperello · 24-02-2020 12:21am

TrailerBob wrote: »

Absolutely would. In the market shortly for something to replace our 11 year old Kuga which is starting to become less reliable, and with a 4 week old we need something newer. Can't afford a newer hybrid in most models, and with mileage being quite high, and living in a very rural spot, diesel is our only real choice. Green driving is still a luxury I'm afraid. And Eamon Ryan reckons rural areas should only need one car for every 3 homes... Jesus wept

E Ryan made a hash of explaining that proposal but it was seized upon as a stick to beat the Greens.

As far as I can see what he meant was a kind of Go Car option for small towns.

The sort of thing that might allow people the option of only owning one car if they wanted.

elperello · 24-02-2020 12:26am

adrian92 wrote: »

I wonder if this same conversation took place over one hundred years ago regardihg the demise of the steam engine?

I doubt it because the number of privately owned cars was tiny compared to today. The number of steam cars a fraction of that.

The ICE was seen as a great advance and was well established by 1920 anyway.

Atlantic Dawn · 24-02-2020 12:26am

I wouldn't buy a new one (nor possibly ever buy a new car) but if I was presented in the morning with a 30k mile commute per year I'd be looking at throwing €10k or so at one.

TrailerBob · 24-02-2020 12:31am

elperello wrote: »

E Ryan made a hash of explaining that proposal but it was seized upon as a stick to beat the Greens.

As far as I can see what he meant was a kind of Go Car option for small towns.

The sort of thing that might allow people the option of only owning one car if they wanted.

I'm no trying to beat the greens with any stick.. I'd be happy to drive hybrid if I could afford one, (while I have to keep the landcruiser for heavy towing). But the way we live now is not comparable to a few generations back. Many of the families near us have no choice but communte medium to long distance to work.. and the green ideas need to be workable outside of urban centres if they are to be implemented bacross the board (and I include rural towns in that)

TCM · 24-02-2020 12:34am

I have a 2 yr old diesel mondeo & I buy a new diesel mondeo next January.

TrailerBob · 24-02-2020 12:36am

tuxy wrote: »

I've never had a petrol car deteriorate much over that kind of distance.
I though diesels were stroinger.
Shocks are consumable items IMO.

It's nothing to do with the engine at all.. ABS module failed, Steering rack failure, alternator at 110k... (A known weakness) It's not atrocious, but will start getting expensive soon...

tuxy · 24-02-2020 12:40am

TrailerBob wrote: »

It's nothing to do with the engine at all.. ABS module failed, Steering rack failure, alternator at 110k... (A known weakness) It's not atrocious, but will start getting expensive soon...

As I said my car is 23 years old. No sign of problems yet but now you have me worried about when I do have to replace it.
I've only changed items that are consumable and never had a bill over €200.

elperello · 24-02-2020 12:41am

TrailerBob wrote: »

I'm no trying to beat the greens with any stick.. I'd be happy to drive hybrid if I could afford one, (while I have to keep the landcruiser for heavy towing). But the way we live now is not comparable to a few generations back. Many of the families near us have no choice but communte medium to long distance to work.. and the green ideas need to be workable outside of urban centres if they are to be implemented bacross the board (and I include rural towns in that)

Sorry I didn't mean you personally but a lot of rural candidates went to town on the Greens over it.

People in country areas are not going back to the old times and the hardship that went with them.

As you say the families are stuck with two cars and all the extra expense because they have no other option. Taxing them in any guise, environmental or other will only make their lives more miserable.

They definitely need to tailor solutions for different parts of the country.

adrian92 · 24-02-2020 12:45am

elperello wrote: »

I doubt it because the number of privately owned cars was tiny compared to today. The number of steam cars a fraction of that.

The ICE was seen as a great advance and was well established by 1920 anyway.

Yes, the Internal Combustion Engine was an advance one hundred years ago.

Perhaps, I wonder, just like the steam engine is the ICE obsolete?

tuxy · 24-02-2020 12:47am

adrian92 wrote: »

Yes, the Internal Combustion Engine was an advance one hundred years ago.

Perhaps, I wonder, just like the steam engine is the ICE obsolete?

No, absuletly not. Something is not obsolete until there is no use for it.
The ICE will probable be phased out over several decades at that point it will be obsolete.

bazz26 · 24-02-2020 12:50am

TCM wrote: »

I have a 2 yr old diesel mondeo & I buy a new diesel mondeo next January.

If Ford are still selling the Mondeo next year.

adrian92 · 24-02-2020 12:55am

tuxy wrote: »

No, absuletly not. Something is not obsolete until there is no use for it.
The ICE will probable be phased out over several decades at that point it will be obsolete.

I think you are correct.
In time there will be in museums a (present day) cars , like steam engines

TrailerBob · 24-02-2020 12:56am

tuxy wrote: »

As I said my car is 23 years old. No sign of problems yet but now you have me worried about when I do have to replace it.
I've only changed items that are consumable and never had a bill over €200.

I'm not sure what has you so worried.. some cars you get lucky with, others less so. I have a 17 year old Toyota with 350,000 miles on it as my own daily driver that's never had any big money spent... I trust it more than the OH's Ford, but it won't stop us looking at coming up the years

Steve · 24-02-2020 1:00am

PaulRyan97 wrote: »

What 170BHP engine currently has €1200 road tax?

wotzgoingon wrote: »

Total guess but some petrol one.

Before my current car, '11 2.0 TDi, 170 BHP Tax = €280 (just looked up the renewal), I had a '98 2.0 Petrol V6 200 BHP Tax was > €1200

Now the gobshytes are telling us the petrol was 'cleaner' ???

galwaytt · 24-02-2020 1:01am

TrailerBob wrote: »

Absolutely would. In the market shortly for something to replace our 11 year old Kuga which is starting to become less reliable, and with a 4 week old we need something newer. Can't afford a newer hybrid in most models, and with mileage being quite high, and living in a very rural spot, diesel is our only real choice. Green driving is still a luxury I'm afraid. And Eamon Ryan reckons rural areas should only need one car for every 3 homes... Jesus wept

question for you : what has having a 4 week old got to do with your car choice ?? I think you'll find they're pretty immune to car choices. ..

It's like people rushing out to but a 5-series estate because they have a buggy to ferry around.

My 2, now 19 & 16 have been reared in a series of .....Audi TT, Porsche 911/968/996...and back to TT again..... you'll note none of them are diesel either.....

My 968 hit 170k miles, my TT 160k miles. ....so they're not Sunday cars either....

TrailerBob · 24-02-2020 1:16am

galwaytt wrote: »

question for you : what has having a 4 week old got to do with your car choice ?? I think you'll find they're pretty immune to car choices. ..

It's like people rushing out to but a 5-series estate because they have a buggy to ferry around.

My 2, now 19 & 16 have been reared in a series of .....Audi TT, Porsche 911/968/996...and back to TT again..... you'll note none of them are diesel either.....

My 968 hit 170k miles, my TT 160k miles. ....so they're not Sunday cars either....[/QUOTE

See my above post, I'm not afraid of high miles, I'd win most forum top trumps competitions with the cruiser, but now I'm going to work tomorrow and the OH is at home with no car as the brake servo is acting up... That's what having a 4 week old has to do with it... Never said anything about buying bigger or giant boots... Its a different story when it's 10km to the nearest shop/doctor/chemist and your car is in the garage again..

Anyway.. we've derailed the discussion enough about why I am car shopping! Diesel is here to stay for another while yet in our house.

Jmccoy1 · 24-02-2020 1:26pm

Bought a Grand Megane with a 1.5 dci last week.

1st dalkey dalkey · 24-02-2020 2:13pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

A ten year old SUV has very little value even today

That is true, but today you can still use a 10 year old SUV anywhere.
This from Bloomberg news:
"Come 2024, a diesel car won't get you around Paris or Madrid as the capitals ban all passenger vehicles running on the fuel. A few years later, all combustion drivers in and around Barcelona, London and Rome reliant on cars will lose access"
Bristol in England is discussing a proposal to ban them from March '21.
It is only a matter of time till they are banned in cities here.

blackbox · 24-02-2020 2:28pm

It would be fair to bring in a smoke based tax.
High tax for old smoky diesels - ideally this would be assessed at NCT to catch the worst offenders.
Lower tax for modern diesels with effective particulate filters.

bladespin · 24-02-2020 2:51pm

Definately, and for the foreseeable future, until something close to a practical alternative is available

zilog_jones · 24-02-2020 4:16pm

To answer the original question: No.

I have a petrol Prius plug-in hybrid, it suits my short commute and suited my budget when I was buying (used). Four years later and I'm still happy enough with it, the range isn't great (about 16-18 km) but it works and I can't afford more right now. Running costs have been halved compared to my previous diesel.

I had my previous car about 5 years and I grew to hate various things about diesel:

Noise and vibration - sure newer diesels are better than they used to be, but they're still nowhere near petrol in terms of NVH.
Besides the above, I've never heard a 4-pot diesel that actually sounds nice. Modified diesel exhausts sound pathetic and dumb, "cooing" Passats and A4s are always good for a laugh
Narrow torque band - it sucks, and anyone who likes this is wrong
Servicing, and having to put up with that manky black oil - good example of how these are inherently dirty engines

I avoided anything with a DPF because of my low mileage and all the horror stories.

johnmorganhere · 24-02-2020 4:49pm

Hello everyone. I am new here. If you ask me I would buy a diesel car because it is much cheaper.

zilog_jones · 24-02-2020 5:23pm

You need to look at total cost of ownership - there's much more to the cost of a car than tax and fuel. Also: Electricity is a hell of a lot cheaper than diesel

24-02-2020 5:36pm

bennyineire wrote: »

I'm driving a Lexus IS300H, tax is €190 for the year and 210 BHP

I drive a Lexus CT200, very reassuring vehicle to drive, great around corners, terrific braking. I’ve had a Liam of Toyota CH-R during routine servicing. The hybrids are good, safe, reliable cars. I notice that I get better performance but less mileage on the premium petrol, but get great economy and a slightly more sluggish response from economy petrol. Insurance is favourable too in the car. I’ll stick to hybrids.

twin_beacon · 24-02-2020 6:09pm

I have a long commute to work, and I tend do drive a lot at weekends too. Diesel is the the fuel best suited to the driving I do, so I will continue driving diesel until there is a better alternative.

mondeo · 25-02-2020 1:17pm

Yes I would buy a diesal, I am looking for a BMW 420d coupe at the minute myself. Too hell with electric, no time for that nonsense, plugging in my car and waiting hours for it to recharge, F off!

Electric cars are too expensive anyways and the range is rubbish in comparison to anything petrol or diesal out there.

Electric cars also wont age well, they will be like phones, old tech that cannot keep up anymore. In 10 years time a Hyundai Kona elec from today will be worth scrap since who wants a car with 200 km range when you can buy an electric one with 1000+ range.... Some diesals from the 1980's have similar bloody fuel economy to todays diesals. They aged well ! Electric will never be like that... Unless people are modifying older electric cars with newer motors and batteries to give them similar range to modern equiv electric cars. Who knows what will happen or what sort of after market parts will be available for electric cars in the future.

zilog_jones · 25-02-2020 1:48pm

mondeo wrote: »

Yes I would buy a diesal, I am looking for a BMW 420d coupe at the minute myself. Too hell with electric, no time for that nonsense, plugging in my car and waiting hours for it to recharge, F off!

You do know most humans sleep every day, often for 7 hours or more? Most people are also not driving when they sleep. And the average commute time in Ireland is less than half an hour - it's as if most people are not driving at all for most of the day! Amazing! Plenty of time to charge a car and not be waiting

pudzey101 · 25-02-2020 1:52pm

The 1.4 diesel corolla I bought last week for cheap as chips has probably been my best buy in 12 years of driving. Cannot get over the mpg its returning for a 15 year old car

bladespin · 25-02-2020 2:23pm

zilog_jones wrote: »

You do know most humans sleep every day, often for 7 hours or more? Most people are also not driving when they sleep. And the average commute time in Ireland is less than half an hour - it's as if most people are not driving at all for most of the day! Amazing! Plenty of time to charge a car and not be waiting

Also amazingly there are people who spend a large part of their working day driving to and from different sites: drive 4 hours to Tralee then head to Shannon and then back to Dublin, any electrics capable of that one?

touts · 25-02-2020 2:34pm

I'll buy the car that is most efficient for me to run and at the moment that is Diesel. When electric cars have a good range and the battery will last the lifetime of the car then I will consider one.

I wouldn't worry about the Greens. When the government negotiations start they will be clearly told the realities on the ground outside Dublin first of which is that the Luas doesn't serve most of the country.

bladespin · 25-02-2020 2:45pm

touts wrote: »

When the government negotiations start they will be clearly told the realities on the ground outside Dublin first of which is that the Luas doesn't serve most of the country.

Hopefully that won't happen, funny enough their own leader prefers a Diesel transporter to get around the city.

Hypocrite much???

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 25-02-2020 3:44pm

shadydestroyer wrote: »

Even though my commute is only 20KM in total I still use Diesel, always have and always will until they stop selling them.

Nearly all my friends have Diesel as well doing similar distance in and out of work every day. Population where I live is about 1500 and nearly everyone drives a diesel.

Boards seems to be really weird with people talking about Diesel cars and people doing short distances for some reason.

Never had any problem driving short distances in them along with my friends.

It might get a good spin up to Dublin once every two months or so.

Regular short distances are not good for diesels, the dpf needs a good run to burn off any build up.

Plus with short drives you're likely stopping the car from completing passive regenerations of the dpf.

After a while it can lead to you needing to get the dpf professionally cleaned or replaced altogether €€€

galwaytt · 25-02-2020 3:54pm

To the OP's question: yes, I'd still buy diesel. The Pro's outweigh the Con's (for this house anyway).

I'd seriously consider a Hybrid, but I'd want a serious test drive (as in, for about 2 weeks) before I'd commit to one. These are not Smarties we're buying, so I'd want to be 100% sure. I've had one for 2 weeks before, a few years ago, with mixed results: economy not being one of them.

quokula · 25-02-2020 4:04pm

mondeo wrote: »

Electric cars also wont age well, they will be like phones, old tech that cannot keep up anymore. In 10 years time a Hyundai Kona elec from today will be worth scrap since who wants a car with 200 km range when you can buy an electric one with 1000+ range.... Some diesals from the 1980's have similar bloody fuel economy to todays diesals. They aged well ! Electric will never be like that... Unless people are modifying older electric cars with newer motors and batteries to give them similar range to modern equiv electric cars. Who knows what will happen or what sort of after market parts will be available for electric cars in the future.

You're right that tech will move on and the cars will depreciate, but I'd be willing to bet that Kona electric will be worth more in 10 years than any equivalent diesel will be.

reg114 · 25-02-2020 4:39pm

mondeo wrote: »

Yes I would buy a diesal, I am looking for a BMW 420d coupe at the minute myself. Too hell with electric, no time for that nonsense, plugging in my car and waiting hours for it to recharge, F off!

Electric cars are too expensive anyways and the range is rubbish in comparison to anything petrol or diesal out there.

Electric cars also wont age well, they will be like phones, old tech that cannot keep up anymore. In 10 years time a Hyundai Kona elec from today will be worth scrap since who wants a car with 200 km range when you can buy an electric one with 1000+ range.... Some diesals from the 1980's have similar bloody fuel economy to todays diesals. They aged well ! Electric will never be like that... Unless people are modifying older electric cars with newer motors and batteries to give them similar range to modern equiv electric cars. Who knows what will happen or what sort of after market parts will be available for electric cars in the future.

By your suggestion it would never be worth buying anything as it would be rendered obsolete by technological advancements. Electric is happening whether you like it or not.

crisco10 · 25-02-2020 5:19pm

reg114 wrote: »

By your suggestion it would never be worth buying anything as it would be rendered obsolete by technological advancements. Electric is happening whether you like it or not.

It also completely disregards the 2nd/3rd/4th hand markets! I can well imagine a world where I'd be happy to buy a Kona with 200km range as a 2nd car or whatever. In that case, it would make little sense for me to get a new one with the 1000+km range.

PaulRyan97 · 25-02-2020 6:25pm

bladespin wrote: »

Hopefully that won't happen, funny enough their own leader prefers a Diesel transporter to get around the city.

Hypocrite much???

I'm sure Eamonn Ryan has mentioned this before. It's a 2003 Transporter that he's had since he bought it brand new. He ran it on bio-diesel for years. Says that since it's harder to find bio-diesel nowadays his next car will be fully electric.

elperello · 25-02-2020 6:40pm

PaulRyan97 wrote: »

I'm sure Eamonn Ryan has mentioned this before. It's a 2003 Transporter that he's had since he bought it brand new. He ran it on bio-diesel for years. Says that since it's harder to find bio-diesel nowadays his next car will be fully electric.

That's the story as I heard him saying it on radio.

You will often hear the Greens being blamed for the switch to diesel from 2008 on.

Then we discover E Ryan has a diesel himself and he is called a hypocrite for doing himself what he told us to do.

A Caravelle is a very specific class of vehicle and they were always expensive so no surprise he'd want to make it last.

sk8board · 25-02-2020 8:02pm

bladespin wrote: »

Hopefully that won't happen, funny enough their own leader prefers a Diesel transporter to get around the city.

Hypocrite much???

Well we know he prefers diesel, we have him to thank for a €60k bmw being €156 to tax back in 2008 (!).

Re the transporter - I wouldn’t tear into him too much on that - the worst car to buy for the environment is any new one - even electric cars have a massive carbon footprint just in the manufacture

As an aside, wasn’t he advocating some mad car sharing scheme for one car for every three families there recently or something like that? Maybe the bus is for all three families at once!

bladespin · 25-02-2020 9:05pm

PaulRyan97 wrote: »

I'm sure Eamonn Ryan has mentioned this before. It's a 2003 Transporter that he's had since he bought it brand new. He ran it on bio-diesel for years. Says that since it's harder to find bio-diesel nowadays his next car will be fully electric.

And a 7 seated with just the driver in there, the hypocrisy is that this was inDublin, probably the only place in the country with a ‘proper’ public transport infrastructure and still he preferred to drive the chuggernaught.

mondeo · 25-02-2020 10:07pm

reg114 wrote: »

By your suggestion it would never be worth buying anything as it would be rendered obsolete by technological advancements. Electric is happening whether you like it or not.

The technology is still too new and range is hairy if your a commuter. The price of a new golf electric is pushing 50k lol. That's mad money for a golf with an elec motor. You will get a new golf diesal for almost 20k less for crying out loud, where you will get from Dublin to Wexford and back again without stopping.

I would consider electric in several years time when range has vastly improved and prices are more sensible, until then I'm staying old skool.

elperello · 25-02-2020 10:41pm

https://www.carzone.ie/search?make=VOLKSWAGEN&model=GOLF&minYear=2020%20(201)&maxYear=2020%20(201)&fuelType=Electric

Actually they are clearing them at the minute.

You can get an electric Golf from €29,000 to €33,000.

I'm not saying you should buy one, only you can decide that.

murphyebass · 25-02-2020 11:28pm

No proper 7 seat electric buses yet either.

Galaxy or Sharan type proper 7 seaters.

So diesels it is for me for now. Just bought me a 2016 galaxy a month or so ago as it happens.

150,000 motorway kilometres on it. Hopefully it’ll do another 100,000 for me!

Wouldn’t think it’s got 150k on it other than the steering wheel is worn. Like a brand new motor otherwise.

quokula · 26-02-2020 2:40am

mondeo wrote: »

The technology is still too new and range is hairy if your a commuter. The price of a new golf electric is pushing 50k lol. That's mad money for a golf with an elec motor. You will get a new golf diesal for almost 20k less for crying out loud, where you will get from Dublin to Wexford and back again without stopping.

I would consider electric in several years time when range has vastly improved and prices are more sensible, until then I'm staying old skool.

An electric Golf starts at about 28k, that’s nowhere near 50k. You’ll never need to stop at a petrol station and pay for diesel again. Electricity is much cheaper and more convenient as it refills while you sleep. Electric motors are cheaper to service, more reliable and last longer too.

Range is an issue if you’re one of the minority of people who commutes more than 200k per day, in which case it’s not a car for you. Your example of Wexford to Dublin is indeed beyond the car’s range, though how many people commute that far? There are electric cars right now that will do that range but you’re heading towards 40k territory, some of which you’ll make back by saving thousands on fuel costs.

However, for a great many people who don’t spend quite so many hours commuting something like the egolf is a perfectly valid, affordable and convenient way to drive right now.

bladespin · 26-02-2020 12:17pm

quokula wrote: »

Range is an issue if you’re one of the minority of people who commutes more than 200k per day, in which case it’s not a car for you. Your example of Wexford to Dublin is indeed beyond the car’s range, though how many people commute that far?

A lot more than you'd imagine and the number is steadily growing.

quokula wrote: »

There are electric cars right now that will do that range but you’re heading towards 40k territory, some of which you’ll make back by saving thousands on fuel costs.

They are coming, that's for sure but still a way off for now, now if there was some sort Govt incentive that would plonk a Tesla within the average company car bracket.....;)

Would you buy a diesel car now?

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