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I'm wondering what settings I should use on my Canon AV-1 with Portra 160 film?

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  • 27-02-2020 4:45pm
    #1
    segosego89
    Registered Users Posts: 219 ✭✭


    Hi there,

    I'm a beginner to photography and I recently acquired a Canon AV-1 camera. This week I recently bought two rolls of Portra 160 35mm film to use with the camera.

    I hope to take a number of portrait photos of my family members with the Portra 160 in the living room either during the day or the night time over the next week.

    I want to take very sharp photos and set my "FD 50mm f1.8" lens to somewhere between an "f1.8 and f5.6 aperture" setting to isolate my the subjects in the photos.
    But I'm worried that if I set my camera's ISO speed to 160 to accommodate for the Portra 160 stock that the photos may come out blurry if I don't take the photos in a particular way? My understanding is that Portra 160 needs more light than other kinds of film stock and I'm trying to understand how the ISO setting on my AV-1 relates to the shutter speed etc. I'm finding it difficult to wrap my head around these things.

    Can anyone kindly provide advice on how I should go about taking these photos? Should I be okay with setting my AV-1 at ISO 160 as long as there is decent light in the living room?

    Any helpful information would be greatly appreciated!

    Kind regards


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    #2
    dylbert
    Registered Users Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭dylbert


    Portra 160 is a medium speed film and probably not best for shooting indoors, you could probably get away if shooting by a window on a bright day but no chance at night without a flash, portra 400 or even 800 would be better indoors.

    I think the Canon AV1 has an aperture priority mode, if so then if you set your desire aperture then the camera will automatically select the correct shutter speed. Wit a 50mm lens you should shoot at 1/60 or faster when hand held to avoid blur from camera shake, just select a aperture that gives a fast enough shutter speed.

    Have a look on YouTube, there’s lots of videos that explain the exposure triangle, how ISO, shutter speed and aperture affect each other.


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    #3
    segosego89
    Registered Users Posts: 219 ✭✭segosego89


    dylbert wrote: »
    Portra 160 is a medium speed film and probably not best for shooting indoors, you could probably get away if shooting by a window on a bright day but no chance at night without a flash, portra 400 or even 800 would be better indoors.

    I think the Canon AV1 has an aperture priority mode, if so then if you set your desire aperture then the camera will automatically select the correct shutter speed. Wit a 50mm lens you should shoot at 1/60 or faster when hand held to avoid blur from camera shake, just select a aperture that gives a fast enough shutter speed.

    Have a look on YouTube, there’s lots of videos that explain the exposure triangle, how ISO, shutter speed and aperture affect each other.
    Thanks so much for the helpful reply. Just wondering could I use Portra 160 indoors at night time in a well lit room? The kitchen is well lit when all the lights are turned on...

    Apologies for my ignorance but would an aperture such as f1.8 on the FD 50mm give me a fast shutter speed? I know that an f1.8 setting will give a very shallow depth of field but does it also give a fast shutter speed?


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    #4
    dylbert
    Registered Users Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭dylbert


    segosego89 wrote: »
    Thanks so much for the helpful reply. Just wondering could I use Portra 160 indoors at night time in a well lit room? The kitchen is well lit when all the lights are turned on...

    Apologies for my ignorance but would an aperture such as f1.8 on the FD 50mm give me a fast shutter speed? I know that an f1.8 setting will give a very shallow depth of field but does it also give a fast shutter speed?

    You might get away with it if it’s bright enough but then you run the risk of the lighting being too harsh which won’t give the best results, you really want soft defused lighting when photographing people. You could try downloading one of the free light meter apps on your phone, these work great and will tell you what shutter speed to use.

    Yes f1.8 will give you the fastest shutter speed, the higher the f number the less light going into the camera and therefore a slower shutter is needed to compensate. Shooting at f1.8 might cause issues though, as you say it give a shallow depth of field, this means that your focusing needs to be spot on which can be difficult with a manual lens in low light, also if you have more than one person in the photo you run the risk of someone being out of focus.

    Give the Portra 160 a go and see how you get on, it’s all about trial and error, the problem with film is you don’t see the results until you get it developed. If you serious about getting into film I would pick up a few rolls of a cheaper ISO400 film and get practicing, try some black and white too.


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    #5
    segosego89
    Registered Users Posts: 219 ✭✭segosego89


    dylbert wrote: »
    You might get away with it if it’s bright enough but then you run the risk of the lighting being too harsh which won’t give the best results, you really want soft defused lighting when photographing people. You could try downloading one of the free light meter apps on your phone, these work great and will tell you what shutter speed to use.

    Yes f1.8 will give you the fastest shutter speed, the higher the f number the less light going into the camera and therefore a slower shutter is needed to compensate. Shooting at f1.8 might cause issues though, as you say it give a shallow depth of field, this means that your focusing needs to be spot on which can be difficult with a manual lens in low light, also if you have more than one person in the photo you run the risk of someone being out of focus.

    Give the Portra 160 a go and see how you get on, it’s all about trial and error, the problem with film is you don’t see the results until you get it developed. If you serious about getting into film I would pick up a few rolls of a cheaper ISO400 film and get practicing, try some black and white too.
    For some photos there would only be one person in the photo and then for other photos there might be a couple of people. The subjects of the photos would be standing 5 to 10 feet away from me usually.

    Could you recommend an aperture setting for taking a photo of someone 5 to 10 feet away from me? Would f5.6 be a more reasonable general aperture setting compared to f1.8? I just want the subjects of the photo to be sharp. I can't manually alter the shutter speed on my AV-1 as it is aperture priority so I just have to make sure the room is well lit. There is a light meter inside the lens of the AV-1(it's like a dial) but I'll try that light meter app that you recommended.

    I actually just acquired Portra 400 which is a more forgiving film stock in regards to lighting. Maybe I should take your advice and practice with the 400 rather than the 160 as the 160 seems to be a bit finicky for a beginner?


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    #6
    DaireQuinlan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,677 ✭✭✭DaireQuinlan


    Ok, so the AV-1, it appears, isn't capable of manual or shutter speed priority. That's no big deal. Assuming the light meter in the camera is reasonably ok (and it probably is) then you just have to make sure you're metering the right thing, and hit the shutter button. In order to get reasonably non shaky shots shooting handheld, there's a general rule of thumb that you should never go lower than 1/focal length of your lens. In this case that'll be, as mentioned above, 1/50th of a second.

    Looking through the viewfinder, if the AV-1 is the same as every other camera from around that same era, you can half press the shutter button and you should get a meter reading in the viewfinder that will correspond to the shutter speed that the camera is going to shoot at. open and close the aperture on the lens and check what effect it has on the measured shutter speed.

    Manual, if you don't have one, is here
    https://www.butkus.org/chinon/canon/canon_av-1/canon_av-1.htm

    I have nothing to do with the guy, but his selection of manuals is amazing, well worth a donation if you find his site useful.


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    #7
    segosego89
    Registered Users Posts: 219 ✭✭segosego89


    DaireQuinlan wrote: »
    In order to get reasonably non shaky shots shooting handheld, there's a general rule of thumb that you should never go lower than 1/focal length of your lens. In this case that'll be, as mentioned above, 1/50th of a second


    Can you explain what you mean by "you should never go lower than 1/focal length of your lens"?


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    #8
    CabanSail
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 9,047 CMod ✭✭✭✭CabanSail


    The rule of thumb is that for a 35mm frame you do not shoot hand held at a shutter speed inverse to the focal length of the lens. So in your case you have a 50mm lens so 1/50th of a second (1/60th is the closest) is as slow as you go.

    The other thing you need to consider is that Porta is a Daylight Balanced film. You have to consider the colour temperature of the light. Incandescent bulbs will be quite warm. Florescent lights will be cooler and may have a cast depending on the type. Using film you may need a correction filter. It is probably best to shoot during the day with natural light.


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    #9
    segosego89
    Registered Users Posts: 219 ✭✭segosego89


    CabanSail wrote: »
    The rule of thumb is that for a 35mm frame you do not shoot hand held at a shutter speed inverse to the focal length of the lens. So in your case you have a 50mm lens so 1/50th of a second (1/60th is the closest) is as slow as you go.

    The other thing you need to consider is that Porta is a Daylight Balanced film. You have to consider the colour temperature of the light. Incandescent bulbs will be quite warm. Florescent lights will be cooler and may have a cast depending on the type. Using film you may need a correction filter. It is probably best to shoot during the day with natural light.
    Okay I have a better understanding now. I'll take into account what you mentioned regarding bulbs etc.

    If I'm using Portra 400 with a Canon AV-1(which is aperture priority as mentioned earlier) should I make sure that the light meter readings on the camera are close to "400".

    I've attached a diagram of the AV-1's light meter that you can see when looking through its viewfinder here: https://ibb.co/zG1wzPj

    As you can see the light meter reads from 2 to 1000. I'll be taking photos with the camera resting on a box. So the camera will be in a secure position and wont be help in my hands. If I want to get as sharp and focused of a photo as possible should I make sure that the dial is positioned between 1000 and 500 when taking a photo using Portra 400 with low enough aperture setting (f1.8 to f5.6)?


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    #10
    dylbert
    Registered Users Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭dylbert


    segosego89 wrote: »
    Okay I have a better understanding now. I'll take into account what you mentioned regarding bulbs etc.

    If I'm using Portra 400 with a Canon AV-1(which is aperture priority as mentioned earlier) should I make sure that the light meter readings on the camera are close to "400".

    I've attached a diagram of the AV-1's light meter that you can see when looking through its viewfinder here: https://ibb.co/zG1wzPj

    As you can see the light meter reads from 2 to 1000. I'll be taking photos with the camera resting on a box. So the camera will be in a secure position and wont be help in my hands. If I want to get as sharp and focused of a photo as possible should I make sure that the dial is positioned between 1000 and 500 when taking a photo using Portra 400 with low enough aperture setting (f1.8 to f5.6)?

    The numbers in the light meter are the shutter speeds going from 2 seconds to 1/1000th of a second, just select an aperture that gives a shutter speed of 60 (1/60th) or above.


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    #11
    Ben D Bus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,113 ✭✭✭Ben D Bus


    Sorry for the mini thread hijack but where did you get the Portra 160? My regular film supplier hasn't had any in ages!


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    #12
    DaireQuinlan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,677 ✭✭✭DaireQuinlan


    Ben D Bus wrote: »
    Sorry for the mini thread hijack but where did you get the Portra 160? My regular film supplier hasn't had any in ages!

    photoshop.ie is yer only man. Film, chemicals, various courses, local

    https://www.thephotoshop.ie/index.php?route=product/category&path=64

    No connection other than being a satisfied customer.


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    #13
    CabanSail
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 9,047 CMod ✭✭✭✭CabanSail


    This is a guide to using the Lightmeter and setting the film ISO

    504175.jpg


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    #14
    dylbert
    Registered Users Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭dylbert


    DaireQuinlan wrote: »
    photoshop.ie is yer only man. Film, chemicals, various courses, local

    https://www.thephotoshop.ie/index.php?route=product/category&path=64

    No connection other than being a satisfied customer.

    Another satisfied customer here too, and his darkroom courses are excellent.


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    #15
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,166 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    segosego89 why are you starting with film here? The same principles apply to film and digital for the most part but digital gives instant feedback so you learn much faster. Shooting with digital until "the triangle" comes naturally to you seems a far more effective use of your time (and money for film+developing).


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    #16
    vintagecosmos
    Registered Users Posts: 851 ✭✭✭vintagecosmos


    I found this very good as a way to get your head around the various variables.

    http://photography-mapped.com/interact.html


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    #17
    segosego89
    Registered Users Posts: 219 ✭✭segosego89


    ED E wrote: »
    segosego89 why are you starting with film here? The same principles apply to film and digital for the most part but digital gives instant feedback so you learn much faster. Shooting with digital until "the triangle" comes naturally to you seems a far more effective use of your time (and money for film+developing).
    You are right but I don't own a digital camera. My Dad gave me his old AV 1 that he purchased in the 80s. Also I do not like the look of digital photos. I like the look you can get with the film based Canon cameras. I especially like the look you can get with the Canon EOS 3 that was released in the late 90s. I hope to purchase a used one in the next couple of months.

    Unless you can recommend a cheap enough digital camera comparable in quality to the Canon A1 that I could practice with in the mean time?


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    #18
    segosego89
    Registered Users Posts: 219 ✭✭segosego89


    vintagecosmos wrote: »
    I found this very good as a way to get your head around the various variables.

    http://photography-mapped.com/interact.html
    This is great. Thanks so much.


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    #19
    segosego89
    Registered Users Posts: 219 ✭✭segosego89


    Ben D Bus wrote: »
    Sorry for the mini thread hijack but where did you get the Portra 160? My regular film supplier hasn't had any in ages!
    I got the Portra 160 from Photoshop.ie. I would definitely recommend them.


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