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Electronics for Electricians?

  • 25-02-2020 12:42am
    #1
    brightspark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,637 ✭✭✭


    It came up in a discussion at work that there is little point in learning electronics as most PCBs are surface mount and it is usually quicker (and if you consider repair time cheaper) to just replace a complete board.

    Now there was a stage when I would replace bridge rectifiers, diodes, transistors etc., or even just repair dry joints, but it's not something I find myself doing that often anymore.

    The trade is constantly changing, some of the things I was taught as an apprentice are obsolete such as various starter and motor speed control methods.

    So should new guys starting out bother with electronics? Or should they focus on other areas?


Comments

  • #2
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    I always had an interest in electronics and have designed and etched out some pcbs, designed microcontroller circuits and programmed them. Only ever did my own small projects with them though, or for a few others here and there such as the tractor projects and a heating timer for example. Very useful at times for solutions to some ideas.

    Never looked into it as a full time occupation though.


  • #3
    Maewyn Succat
    Registered Users Posts: 506 ✭✭✭Maewyn Succat


    I think it's useful for electricians to know a little about electronics. It all depends on what areas the electrician wants to work in though. There are plenty of electricians out there that would struggle with anything more complicated than ohm's law but they get along just fine in their jobs.


  • #4
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,602 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    I think it is always good to learn more and to be interested in different aspects of the electrical industry. There is no downside having a better understanding.


  • #5
    DublinDilbert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,390 ✭✭✭DublinDilbert


    Sometimes you can't get a replacement part so repair may be the only option. Surface mount parts aren't bad to work with, as long as your not talking bga's or the tiny stuff. Get a magnifier from the likes of lid or aldi.


  • #6
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Maewyn Succat wrote: »
    I think it's useful for electricians to know a little about electronics. It all depends on what areas the electrician wants to work in though. There are plenty of electricians out there that would struggle with anything more complicated than ohm's law but they get along just fine in their jobs.
    2011 wrote: »
    I think it is always god to learn more and to be interested in different aspects of the electrical industry. There is no downsto having a better understanding.

    Yea I think a degree of understanding in electronics is of benefit to overall understanding in the electrical field. A good interest makes it all a lot simpler as time goes on imo.


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  • #7
    Steve
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,584 ✭✭✭✭Steve


    The main problem with boards is unless you designed it, it's next to impossible to diagnose most faults unless there is an obvious fried component.

    I'd say that a proficiency in the skill of working on them and soldering practice is more benefit than being able to understand and design unless you plan to make that into a full time career.

    That said, a lot of by bread and butter income involves working on boards, fitting smt components, removing / swapping smt components (a lot easier than through hole) and building them into a finished system. Like any work, you need decent tools (iron, tips, fluxes, cleaners, wicks, solders, inspection, etc) and a good understanding of how to use them effectively.


  • #8
    brightspark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,637 ✭✭✭brightspark


    This week I was asked to look at a lighting console that wasn't powering up. Main fuse blowing on the power supply, at first I suspected a faulty bridge rectifier, but that checked out okay.

    I then went looking for a complete replacement power supply, found it quickly on line, cost just over €42, ordered late Monday night, arrived Wednesday morning.

    Had I known that was the price I don't think I would have even started looking at fixing the original power supply.

    Perhaps if I had a stock of parts I would have fixed it quicker, but as I would have probably needed to order components it was quicker to just replace the complete board.


  • #9
    Steve
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,584 ✭✭✭✭Steve


    brightspark wrote: »
    Had I known that was the price I don't think I would have even started looking at fixing the original power supply.

    Absolutely agree, that would be pointless.

    In my case I might get a couple of hundred boards that need work.


  • #10
    DublinDilbert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,390 ✭✭✭DublinDilbert


    Steve wrote: »
    The main problem with boards is unless you designed it, it's next to impossible to diagnose most faults unless there is an obvious fried component.

    I'd say that a proficiency in the skill of working on them and soldering practice is more benefit than being able to understand and design unless you plan to make that into a full time career.

    That said, a lot of by bread and butter income involves working on boards, fitting smt components, removing / swapping smt components (a lot easier than through hole) and building them into a finished system. Like any work, you need decent tools (iron, tips, fluxes, cleaners, wicks, solders, inspection, etc) and a good understanding of how to use them effectively.

    You start to notice common configurations in things such as motor drivers or switch mode supplies. The same with micro controller based systems, for example always check the crystal with a scope, have lost count with how many I have had to re-solder.

    I tend not to spend much time fixing stuff, have a quick look see is it something simple / mechanical, such as a connector / cable. If not I look for failed components and try figure out the circuit configuration.

    The RS pro range of soldering irons are quite good, the basic one is €60


  • #11
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Steve wrote: »

    I'd say that a proficiency in the skill of working on them and soldering practice is more benefit than being able to understand and design
    It would be likely a person who designs for their own use or as an interest, will have some soldering skills.


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  • #12
    tweek84
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 341 ✭✭tweek84


    brightspark wrote: »
    It came up in a discussion at work that there is little point in learning electronics as most PCBs are surface mount and it is usually quicker (and if you consider repair time cheaper) to just replace a complete board.

    Now there was a stage when I would replace bridge rectifiers, diodes, transistors etc., or even just repair dry joints, but it's not something I find myself doing that often anymore.

    The trade is constantly changing, some of the things I was taught as an apprentice are obsolete such as various starter and motor speed control methods.

    So should new guys starting out bother with electronics? Or should they focus on other areas?

    Alot of what you have learned as an apprentice is still being thought to apprentices, their training hasn't changed much in the last 20 years.


  • #13
    brightspark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,637 ✭✭✭brightspark


    tweek84 wrote:
    Alot of what you have learned as an apprentice is still being thought to apprentices, their training hasn't changed much in the last 20 years.


    More like 30 years. Apparently SOX and SON lamps are still part of phase 4.


  • #14
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    brightspark wrote: »
    More like 30 years. Apparently SOX and SON lamps are still part of phase 4.

    Bending blocks were shown in my one:eek:


  • #15
    brightspark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,637 ✭✭✭brightspark


    Also still on the required tool list is a gauge ring tool!


  • #16
    tweek84
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 341 ✭✭tweek84


    Unfortunately it is Solus who set the syllabus so the colleges and training centres are at their mercy


  • #17
    Michelinextra.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 94 ✭✭Michelinextra.


    I studied 2 yrs post apprenticeship but there isn't much overlap imo

    Electrician just pays better was the bottom line and electronic stuff is modular as already said


  • #18
    autumnalcore
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 838 ✭✭✭autumnalcore


    I used to repair stuff for people but theres very little money or thanks in it and when something unrelated happens down the line the finger is pointed at you. If its more complicated than a switch, fuse, relay, thermostat, brushes etc usually not worth the hassle unless its yiur own.


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