Liam Miller RIP

20-07-2018 10:24am

Reuben Stocky Shutterbug wrote: »

The Cork GAA could tell them to play the game, and then central council could absolutely turn a blind eye.

This "oh it needs congress approval" is a load of codswallop, truth be told.

All those delegates from NI who have seen clubmates shot dead going to games and have always strongly opposed concessions like opening up the grounds will look the other way and be happy that the GAA are dumping a rule that has been a fundamental part of the organisation for decades?

I just don't see it happening. The tickets have gone on sale. I think they'll ride out the flak. It may be raised again at the next Congress.

major bill · 20-07-2018 10:26am

rob316 wrote: »

I can't recall the tallaght situation can you link me to soemthing on it?

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/no-resolution-in-sight-as-rovers-and-thomas-davis-maintain-their-stance-26444415.html

This is from 10 years ago but more or less a summary of what went on.

major bill · 20-07-2018 10:30am

Deleted User wrote: »

All those delegates from NI who have seen clubmates shot dead going to games and have always strongly opposed concessions like opening up the grounds will look the other way and be happy that the GAA are dumping a rule that has been a fundamental part of the organisation for decades?

I just don't see it happening. The tickets have gone on sale. I think they'll ride out the flak. It may be raised again at the next Congress.

Firstly they wouldn't be too happy with this comment :P

Eod100 · 20-07-2018 10:48am

So if Turner's Cross is sold out, is that the end of this? Hypothetically if it was in PUC, how many much bigger would the crowds be? I just wonder would it scale up. The I gather from original article the issue of PUC was a throwaway comment to say it couldn't be got but it's gained momentum now. Is it better to have full Turner's Cross than a half full PUC say?

gustafo · 20-07-2018 11:00am

Zico ! wrote: »

3 pm kick off on a Tuesday would put off people if it gets moved to a bigger venue

ya whats all that about? crazy time to have it on.

Pauliedragon · 20-07-2018 11:19am

Couldn't this be classed as a charity "event" in the mould of a concert rather than a soccer match which it essentially is. It's not competitive, the players are no longer playing professionally. If it's classed as such shouldn't that be enough to ensure no rules are broken? The fact a ball is being kicked around is secondary to the whole concept.

Eod100 · 20-07-2018 11:29am

Pauliedragon wrote: »

Couldn't this be classed as a charity "event" in the mould of a concert rather than a soccer match which it essentially is. It's not competitive, the players are no longer playing professionally. If it's classed as such shouldn't that be enough to ensure no rules are broken? The fact a ball is being kicked around is secondary to the whole concept.

It could absolutely. Reality if theirs a will there's a way. If GAA wanted to have it in PUC I'm sure there's a loophole they could use or turn a blind eye.

20-07-2018 11:31am

Pauliedragon wrote: »

Couldn't this be classed as a charity "event" in the mould of a concert rather than a soccer match which it essentially is. It's not competitive, the players are no longer playing professionally. If it's classed as such shouldn't that be enough to ensure no rules are broken? The fact a ball is being kicked around is secondary to the whole concept.

The rule is "grounds...shall not be used...for field games other than those sanctioned by the Central Council".

I don't think renaming the event a charity event rather than a football match gets around it.

20-07-2018 11:32am

Eod100 wrote: »

It could absolutely.

I really don't think it could, on any straightforward interpretation of the rule as it stands.

Eod100 · 20-07-2018 12:07pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I really don't think it could, on any straightforward interpretation of the rule as it stands.

Dont think internal rules of amateur organisation can trump EU rules tho. The 30 million given by government came with certain rules. More info on it here https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/pairc-ui-chaoimhs-liam-miller-refusal-to-be-queried-by-government-472926.html

Adamcp898 · 20-07-2018 12:10pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I really don't think it could, on any straightforward interpretation of the rule as it stands.

It's 2018, should rules like this even exist and should we not at least be questioning them given the amount of public support the GAA enjoys?

As a country we're now in a difficult period where we'll be celebrating and/or commemorating centenary after centenary for the foreseeable future and we are going to have to face some hard truths and make some decisions about just what it is our Irish identity is.

Whether rightly or wrongly, the GAA as an institution appears to make up quite a lot of that identity for a portion of the population and it would also appear to be only growing as such. So the existence of rules that have their genesis in the labeling of popular Irish pastimes as "foreign" or unpatriotic needs to be questioned along with the greater organisation as to what role they should play in a positive identity for the country as opposed to perpetuating an undercurrent of division.

I'm not saying the GAA shouldn't have a say in what it's infrastructure is used for but what I am saying is that we need to take a closer look at the amount of public and charitable support it profits from if it's actions and missions are no longer in the public interest.

20-07-2018 12:18pm

Eod100 wrote: »

Dont think internal rules of amateur organisation can trump EU rules tho. The 30 million given by government came with certain rules. More info on it here https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/pairc-ui-chaoimhs-liam-miller-refusal-to-be-queried-by-government-472926.html

That might be grounds for revoking the grant and looking for repayment - though the GAA might rightly point out that they knew very well the GAA rules when giving the money and challenge the decision - but it doesn't tear up the GAA rulebook.

Adamcp898 wrote: »

It's 2018, should rules like this even exist and should we not at least be questioning them given the amount of public support the GAA enjoys?
...
I'm not saying the GAA shouldn't have a say in what it's infrastructure is used for but what I am saying is that we need to take a closer look at the amount of public and charitable support it profits from if it's actions and missions are no longer in the public interest.

Absolutely. The disgrace is that the GAA has received so much while this rule exists, and one great outcome is that it may lead future Governments to be circumspect about handing out blank cheques when the limitation exists. But that does not of itself mean the rule disappears.

Cantona's Collars · 20-07-2018 12:19pm

Wasn't NFL played at other grounds other than Croke Park, surely that breaks their "no other field games in GAA grounds" rule.
All the GAA have to say is that the game will be played in Pairc ui Caoimh as a trial and then the actual opening up of other grounds than Croke Park will be discussed at Congress in 2019.

cms88 · 20-07-2018 12:22pm

While this will not be popular IMO it wouldn't fill PUC, as much as people might like to think it would. While there would be more demand than Turners Cross can take it wouldn't be near 40k. At the most it would be half. Keeping in mind it's on in the middle of the day on a Tuesday. He actually played in Turners Cross anyway so its a better choice.

The argument of tax payers money etc having been spent on PUC is more BS. Was there tax payers money used for the Aviva? Or other rugby soccer pitches? Don't hear much outcry about them being used for other sports. Also the complaining about them having concerts is more BS again. The Aviva has had concerts there so what's the difference.

I think the bigger question is why don't the second biggest city in Ireland only have a 7k stadium?

Adamcp898 · 20-07-2018 12:24pm

Deleted User wrote: »

That might be grounds for revoking the grant and looking for repayment - though the GAA might rightly point out that they knew very well the GAA rules when giving the money and challenge the decision - but it doesn't tear up the GAA rulebook.

Absolutely. The disgrace is that the GAA has received so much while this rule exists, and one great outcome is that it may lead future Governments to be circumspect about handing out blank cheques when the limitation exists. But that does not of itself mean the rule disappears.

It really is and sadly, given the GAA's prominence as a public institution here, any politician that would pick a fight with the GAA would be writing their resignation.

adaminho · 20-07-2018 12:30pm

A lot of people giving out about the rules of the Gaa. Don't forget it was the Fai who made up a rule to prevent Limerick having a friendly with Barcelona a few years ago.

Mocha Joe · 20-07-2018 12:43pm

What happens if the GAA decides to allow it and break their own rule? Prison sentences? The apocalypse?

Fr Tod Umptious · 20-07-2018 1:00pm

Once again the GAA get blamed for soccer infrastructure being so pathetic in this country.

major bill · 20-07-2018 1:00pm

Mocha Joe wrote: »

What happens if the GAA decides to allow it and break their own rule? Prison sentences? The apocalypse?

Nothing, the game will be played and people will move on with their lives.

Eod100 · 20-07-2018 1:05pm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Once again the GAA get blamed for soccer infrastructure being so pathetic in this country.

How? It could have been hosted on Aviva but because of obvious Cork connection is in Cork. Nothing wrong with Turner's Cross but if there is bigger venue available why confine it to only GAA?

markcahill1985 · 20-07-2018 1:06pm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote:

Once again the GAA get blamed for soccer infrastructure being so pathetic in this country.

Give over.

20-07-2018 1:10pm

Adamcp898 wrote: »

It really is and sadly, given the GAA's prominence as a public institution here, any politician that would pick a fight with the GAA would be writing their resignation.

Absolutely correct, the politicians who today are seeking to make some capital on this are the same as the ones who would be around lobbying for their local GAA club to get a sports grant, standing by baskets outside Mass knowing that the money can only be used by the GAA etc.

Mocha Joe wrote: »

What happens if the GAA decides to allow it and break their own rule? Prison sentences? The apocalypse?

Usually where individuals like company directors act outside the powers vested in them, they assume personal liability. So a child falls on steps and breaks an ankle, the parents sue those who allowed the event proceed.

Breaking the rules that govern an entity doesn't prompt the apocalypse, it just goes against all common sense and legal advice.

Fr Tod Umptious · 20-07-2018 1:40pm

Eod100 wrote: »

How? It could have been hosted on Aviva but because of obvious Cork connection is in Cork. Nothing wrong with Turner's Cross but if there is bigger venue available why confine it to only GAA?

And there is a far more obvious Cork soccer connection, so why even suggest trying to move it from a soccer stadium to a place we all know it can't be moved to.

It's a typical whinge from soccer people.

The big bad GAA are not allowing us to do something.

It had nothing to do with the GAA and nor should it.

But some people can't help themselves

WallyGUFC · 20-07-2018 1:46pm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Once again the GAA get blamed for soccer infrastructure being so pathetic in this country.

Maybe if the government gave over €30 million of taxpayers money to LOI clubs to build new stadiums the infrastructure wouldn't be so bad. Instead, they gave it to Cork GAA to fund a white elephant that will be full once a year at most.

Fr Tod Umptious · 20-07-2018 1:50pm

WallyGUFC wrote: »

Maybe if the government gave over €30 million of taxpayers money to LOI clubs to build new stadiums the infrastructure wouldn't be so bad. Instead, they gave it to Cork GAA to fund a white elephant that will be full once a year at most.

The GAA give back far more to this country than they get out of it.

As do soccer, it's just that the GAA are more prolific when it comes to number of clubs, participation, infrastructure etc and thus get more funding.

Didn't some soccer club in south Dublin get a free stadium recently ?

Pauliedragon · 20-07-2018 1:51pm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Once again the GAA get blamed for soccer infrastructure being so pathetic in this country.

The GAA doesn't have a multi billion euro competitor right next door which LOI has so why build big stadiums. Even Pairc Ui Chaoimh will only be full once or twice a year in the county with the 2nd highest population in a sport which is unique to this country.

Bridge93 · 20-07-2018 1:53pm

cms88 wrote: »

The argument of tax payers money etc having been spent on PUC is more BS. Was there tax payers money used for the Aviva? Or other rugby soccer pitches? Don't hear much outcry about them being used for other sports. Also the complaining about them having concerts is more BS again. The Aviva has had concerts there so what's the difference.

I think the bigger question is why don't the second biggest city in Ireland only have a 7k stadium?

People aren't complaining about it hosting concerts they're questioning why if it can host concerts so openly it has such an issue with other sports.

Tax payer money was used for the Aviva. It's the national stadium. Not one of dozens of regional grounds funded out of tax payer money. Lansdowne road has hosted a number of different sports down the years from the obvious to things like tennis and athletics. We won't really know it's stance currently until a situation arose where use was requested by a random other sport

There's no need for a ground bigger than 7k. Cork City get the biggest attendances in the league yet 7k is more than enough 90% of the time

namloc1980 · 20-07-2018 1:53pm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

And there is a far more obvious Cork soccer connection, so why even suggest trying to move it from a soccer stadium to a place we all know it can't be moved to.

It's a typical whinge from soccer people.

The big bad GAA are not allowing us to do something.

It had nothing to do with the GAA and nor should it.

But some people can't help themselves

Denying it would appear to be in breach of the state aid rules. And as pointed out if the government gave €30m to LOI clubs then they might have decent stadiums.

howiya · 20-07-2018 2:07pm

WallyGUFC wrote: »

Maybe if the government gave over €30 million of taxpayers money to LOI clubs to build new stadiums the infrastructure wouldn't be so bad. Instead, they gave it to Cork GAA to fund a white elephant that will be full once a year at most.

Shamrock Rovers stadium has been built by the government. Dalymount Park will hopefully be rebuilt by the government. Not far off the €30million there.

I understand why currently the GAA are saying no but its another PR ****storm for them this summer. When the request came in, surely they could have foreseen the reaction. They're also bound to have other rules they want to change that they could put on the agenda. Arrange a Special Congress and be seen to be proactive.

Eod100 · 20-07-2018 2:09pm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

And there is a far more obvious Cork soccer connection, so why even suggest trying to move it from a soccer stadium to a place we all know it can't be moved to.

It's a typical whinge from soccer people.

The big bad GAA are not allowing us to do something.

It had nothing to do with the GAA and nor should it.

But some people can't help themselves

Soccer people? Suppose people can only follow 1 sport then? This was mentioned by O Flynn and naturally sparked discussion. Direct the blame his way if you don't want this discussed

20-07-2018 2:12pm

namloc1980 wrote: »

Denying it would appear to be in breach of the state aid rules. And as pointed out if the government gave €30m to LOI clubs then they might have decent stadiums.

If the Civil Service has given out State Aid to a group that has a restriction on how it's used, all the "but our own rules say we shouldn't have given it unless you used it in a different way" is useless. And they should be hauled over the coals, because I can't imagine anyone in any sports department in Ireland who didn't know of this restriction. It's like a Bank saying that they should never have lent the money in the first place

howiya · 20-07-2018 2:15pm

namloc1980 wrote: »

Denying it would appear to be in breach of the state aid rules. And as pointed out if the government gave €30m to LOI clubs then they might have decent stadiums.

Good link here on your first point.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/views/taxpayers-deserve-to-reap-all-benefits-after-paying-for-pairc-ui-chaoimh-856485.html

Fr Tod Umptious · 20-07-2018 2:30pm

Eod100 wrote: »

Soccer people? Suppose people can only follow 1 sport then? This was mentioned by O Flynn and naturally sparked discussion. Direct the blame his way if you don't want this discussed

People who follow soccer and hate the GAA and will whinge about the GAA at any opportunity.

You know the type of people.

SteelyDanJalapeno · 20-07-2018 2:48pm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Eod100 wrote: »

Soccer people? Suppose people can only follow 1 sport then? This was mentioned by O Flynn and naturally sparked discussion. Direct the blame his way if you don't want this discussed

People who follow soccer and hate the GAA and will whinge about the GAA at any opportunity.

You know the type of people.

That post is quite disgusting and offensive tbh to suggest that people would use the death of a 36 yr old as a pawn to twist the knife into the gaa.

Eod100 · 20-07-2018 2:53pm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

People who follow soccer and hate the GAA and will whinge about the GAA at any opportunity.

You know the type of people.

I know the stereotype, maybe there's a handful of people who are like that but most football fans either couldn't care less about gaa or follow it. I don't this idea of conspiracy of people criticising GAA doesn't match reality tbh

OneEightSeven · 20-07-2018 2:54pm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Once again the GAA get blamed for soccer infrastructure being so pathetic in this country.

There's no demand for a football stadium that large in Cork and part of the conditions for the €30m grant the GAA received for the stadium was for the stadium to be used for other events. Cork City FC can't even fill Turner's Cross and it's only 7,000. Sure, the GAA haven't even filled Páirc Uí Chaoimh with their own sports.

But this isn't an issue of Cork City needing a football stadium, it's an issue of using the largest stadium in the city to maximize donations for Liam's family.

Paz-CCFC · 20-07-2018 2:58pm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Didn't some soccer club in south Dublin get a free stadium recently ?

No they didn't. A stadium was built in south Dublin with public money for a public body. One particular football club play there regularly and pay good money in rent to do so. A few other clubs have rented the stadium on occasion, directly boosting the owner's coffers. The public body that owns and runs the stadium were even able to organise a lucrative game involving the most high profile team in the world. They also allow the stadium to be used for other sports, such as rugby and American football.

So no, no free stadium for any football club.

Fr Tod Umptious · 20-07-2018 3:16pm

SteelyDanJalapeno wrote: »

That post is quite disgusting and offensive tbh to suggest that people would use the death of a 36 yr old as a pawn to twist the knife into the gaa.

Pleanty of folks here using the death of a 36 year old to have a go at the GAA, calling them ****, suggesting that they are on breach of funding rules etc.

20-07-2018 3:29pm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Pleanty of folks here using the death of a 36 year old to have a go at the GAA, calling them ****, suggesting that they are on breach of funding rules etc.

What I find bizarre is the number wading in to the matter who seem genuinely surprised that this is an issue. Or seem to think it can just be done regardless, as if it's some minor inconvenience or the rule can be ignored.

I'm sure anyone who has supported football at any level here, from training kids teams on local GAA facilities right up to League of Ireland clubs seeing the huge funding that goes to the GAA, must be rolling their eyes and thinking "welcome to our world, where have ye been for the last 100 years"

Guy:Incognito · 20-07-2018 3:50pm

howiya wrote: »

Shamrock Rovers stadium has been built by the government. Dalymount Park will hopefully be rebuilt by the government. Not far off the €30million there.

The council own Tallaght stadium though. Rovers are just tenants.
Any can get use of it.
We (Tallaght rfc) played a friendly in it a couple of years ago.

major bill · 20-07-2018 3:53pm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

The council own Tallaght stadium though. Rovers are just tenants.

Also Bohs don't own Dalymount. Dublin City Council do and the new ground will facilitate both Bohemian FC and Shelbourne FC as joint tenants.

jamesbere · 20-07-2018 4:18pm

This is exactly what the family probably don't want to be listening to, they lost a dad and a husband. People who knew him want to celebrate his life and give something back to the family. All this is descending into is a soccer vs gaa debate, we should be talking about his footballing career, instead we're just bickering.

Pauliedragon · 20-07-2018 4:23pm

jamesbere wrote: »

This is exactly what the family probably don't want to be listening to, they lost a dad and a husband. People who knew him want to celebrate his life and give something back to the family. All this is descending into is a soccer vs gaa debate, we should be talking about his footballing career, instead we're just bickering.

Well said and I'll hold my hand up I got involved. It's enough now let's just move on and let everyone enjoy a celebration of Liam

MD1990 · 20-07-2018 4:24pm

its a disgrace.

But not a surprise be the GAA. All about money for them.

Pauliedragon · 20-07-2018 4:24pm

jamesbere wrote: »

This is exactly what the family probably don't want to be listening to, they lost a dad and a husband. People who knew him want to celebrate his life and give something back to the family. All this is descending into is a soccer vs gaa debate, we should be talking about his footballing career, instead we're just bickering.

Well said and I'll hold my hand up I got involved. It's enough now let's just move on and let everyone enjoy a celebration of Liam Millers life at Turners cross. I haven't heard anyone from the family or the organisers complaining so let it be I say.

SteelyDanJalapeno · 20-07-2018 6:59pm

GAA's latest statement, sterile and cold, and have sought legal advise.

http://gaa.ie/news/gaa-statement-on-pairc-ui-chaoimh-availability/

Cantona's Collars · 20-07-2018 7:18pm

SteelyDanJalapeno wrote: »

GAA's latest statement, sterile and cold, and have sought legal advise.

http://gaa.ie/news/gaa-statement-on-pairc-ui-chaoimh-availability/

The game at Turner's Cross sold out in minutes.
I guarantee that if a meeting was needed to allow the Pope to have mass in Pairc Ui Caoimh the GAA would have one in the morning.

Adamcp898 · 20-07-2018 8:20pm

SteelyDanJalapeno wrote: »

GAA's latest statement, sterile and cold, and have sought legal advise.

http://gaa.ie/news/gaa-statement-on-pairc-ui-chaoimh-availability/

The following bit just sounds like a massive "fùck you"

GAA wrote:

The GAA has sought legal advice around funding received towards the redevelopment of Páirc Uí Chaoimh and believes it is compliant with the terms and conditions laid down in September 2016.

Corholio · 20-07-2018 9:21pm

What should have been an easy 'win' for the GAA, they have somehow turned it into 'leave us alone or we'll get our lawyers'. Shocking and yet not shocking at all.

Cantona's Collars · 20-07-2018 9:56pm

Petition can be signed here.

https://www.change.org/p/gaa-lets-get-the-liam-miller-match-to-p%C3%A1irc-u%C3%AD-chaoimh

Liam Miller RIP

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