New Group

Arkana · 10-07-2013 9:15am #1

Hello there to all people considering themselves as 'Pagans'!:pac:

Since 2012, there is a new group existing that aims to attract all the Pagans who are disappointed with other Pagan groups, for example the 'Pagan Federation' - for various reasons.

This new group is 'Teampall na hÉireann' and membership numbers have rocketed in the short time. But: Their rules are strict - and troublemakers (and there are some) find themselves faster out of the group than they joined. This is a peaceful group which has a strong religious and ethical background - and harmony in every discussion is paramount (that does NOT mean everything is censored, but your BEHAVIOUR, no matter how much you contradict something, should be appropriate!).:rolleyes:

You can write this group either on TeampallnahEireann@yahoo.ie or you find us on FACEBOOK.

Merrymeet, Merrypart and Merrymeet again!:)

maguffin · 10-07-2013 9:38am

Cannot find you on FB and a Google search for 'Teampall na hÉireann' came up with nothing.

Where are you??

Arkana · 11-07-2013 10:59pm

:)Well - you cannot find us on Google, because FB entries are not listed on Google and as a relatively new group there are not many web entries about us so far. But you can EASILY find us in FB, - if you just type 'Team' into the search window, this appears: https://www.facebook.com/groups/290078944385671/?ref=ts&fref=ts
and that is our FB sub site.
Enjoy (please read the 'constitution' first!)!:D
Arkana

Noelhick · 15-07-2013 6:49am

What are the Various reasons for being disappointed with the pagan Federation. ?

Arkana · 17-07-2013 8:56pm

Well - here you have to ask those people who were and are disappointed by the PF. I certainly cannot name them - but if you know some, they certainly will tell you!

Morag · 17-07-2013 11:30pm

What PFI is not doing is a good question, what are the reasons for setting up such a group?

CuAnnan · 18-07-2013 12:39am

So a Facebook group has been set up.

Have you non-proprietary web presence? I don't have a Facebook account. You can't rightly call yourselves Teampall na hÉireann and require a Facebook account, or you're just a bunch of pagans on Facebook.

Why are you calling yourselves the Temple of Ireland? What grants you that mandate? Especially if it is, as you have stated, "do things our way or we through you out of the Facebook Group". That just sounds like a clique of like-minded individuals claiming a mantle they don't really have the right to.

Arkana · 18-07-2013 9:16am

Morag wrote: »

What PFI is not doing is a good question, what are the reasons for setting up such a group?

To give a reasonable alternative. Reasons are mentioned above.

Arkana · 18-07-2013 9:35am

CuAnnan wrote: »

So a Facebook group has been set up.

Have you non-proprietary web presence? I don't have a Facebook account. You can't rightly call yourselves Teampall na hÉireann and require a Facebook account, or you're just a bunch of pagans on Facebook.

Why are you calling yourselves the Temple of Ireland? What grants you that mandate? Especially if it is, as you have stated, "do things our way or we through you out of the Facebook Group". That just sounds like a clique of like-minded individuals claiming a mantle they don't really have the right to.

I could refuse to answer this aggressive comment, but I try to be generous and to get over this vicious undertone.
Nonetheless, CuAnnan (do YOU have a 'right' to bear this alias?

): Our 'rights' are the same like anybody's else - regarding the group, the choice of name, the choice of web site, and the choice of location. There was no patent or copyright on the name 'Teampall na hÉireann' (now there is). I have to state here that you obviously have a disturbed sense of 'right' and 'wrong', of 'legal' and 'not legal' and about 'entitlement' (though in your quite simple and aggressive way of expression you did not use these terms. The group has 'rightly' acquired a group account (for exactly this purpose group accounts are offered by facebook - please inform yourself). Don't blame us, please, that you don't have a facebook account - just get one (maybe, if you do, you know better, what is 'allowed' on facebook and what not). For the other readers, who want to understand you, we correct your faulty English: We did never say "Do things our way or we throw you out of the facebook group". Our constitution (you might have read one or two pieces, but clearly did not understand it) says, more elaborately, but CLEARLY:"Behave in a respectful manner against others or you will have to leave". I am sorry to say, that, with YOUR kind of introduction, you will NOT be entitled even to JOIN. Just to protect others from aggressive people like yourself.

CuAnnan · 18-07-2013 12:23pm

Arkana wrote: »

I could refuse to answer this aggressive comment, but I try to be generous and to get over this vicious undertone.

There are entire theses on how you cannot determine tone from the writing.

Arkana wrote: »

Nonetheless, CuAnnan (do YOU have a 'right' to bear this alias? ):

Yes.

Arkana wrote: »

There was no patent or copyright on the name 'Teampall na hÉireann' (now there is).

You can't either patent or copyright a name. You trademark it.

Arkana wrote: »

I have to state here that you obviously have a disturbed sense of 'right' and 'wrong', of 'legal' and 'not legal' and about 'entitlement'

I'm going to publish this statement everywhere you guys come up.
Someone who asked you what mandates your name gets attacked.
That's gonna look fantastic for you.

Arkana wrote: »

Don't blame us, please, that you don't have a facebook account - just get one (maybe, if you do, you know better, what is 'allowed' on facebook and what not).

So, in presuming to be a group that represents Irish pagans you think I should have to get a Facebook account to be represented thus. Even though Facebook sells your identity?

Arkana wrote: »

Our constitution (you might have read one or two pieces, but clearly did not understand it) says, more elaborately, but CLEARLY:"Behave in a respectful manner against others or you will have to leave".

Respect is a fluid, context based concept.
You, for example, have been ignorant and disrespectful. Repeatedly.
You have condescended to someone who has tried to express concerns about your approach to a concept, even though you claim to have copyrighted or patented a name. Well done on that internationally landmark case, by the way.

Arkana wrote: »

I am sorry to say, that, with YOUR kind of introduction, you will NOT be entitled even to JOIN. Just to protect others from aggressive people like yourself.

Again, this will come up every time someone asks me about you guys.
"Ask a question in the way the members don't understand, they get really intimidated, begin personal insults and then threaten you with exclusion from their little group".

Arkana · 21-07-2013 2:13pm

CuAnann -
the best way to deal with aggressive (and partially wrong-informed) commentators like you is to leave it to the moderators. And if they cannot solve this problem, there are other possibilities.

I think, the readers have now gained quite a picture of your behaviour - and I would not be surprised if people are moaning and turning away from you. But that is entirely their decision. Maybe you are a nice guy and have just a bad phase. But your entire conduct was definitely inappropriate.

Morag · 22-07-2013 2:13pm

Arkana wrote: »

I think, the readers have now gained quite a picture of your behaviour - and I would not be surprised if people are moaning and turning away from you. But that is entirely their decision. Maybe you are a nice guy and have just a bad phase. But your entire conduct was definitely inappropriate.

That really is quiet hilarious coming from you Arkana.

I don't think Cú's questions were aggressive, it seems you decided to pretend to be offended rather then answer them.

Having looked at the group and some of it members I will be giving it a wide berth.

CuAnnan · 22-07-2013 3:16pm

Arkana wrote: »

the best way to deal with aggressive (and partially wrong-informed) commentators like you is to leave it to the moderators. And if they cannot solve this problem, there are other possibilities.

I must admit, the "there are other possibilities" comment has me curious.
I must, however, ask whether you are a constitution-bound non charitable unincorporated association, a charitable trust with a trust deed or a formalised company.
You know, what Irish law are you bound under. How does one go about finding out whether or not your organisation actually exists.

Arkana wrote: »

I think, the readers have now gained quite a picture of your behaviour

I think I have established by now that I value my devotion to the truth more than I value how other people think of me.
I am told I have quite the reputation for it. And that the reputation is not all good.
There are those who will see my abrasiveness as something close-to-but-distinct-from trolling. There are those who will see it as trolling. There are those who ask me what it's all about and then disagree with my methodology, if not my motivation. And there are those who agree with it all.
Do you know what, though?
It isn't a consideration.

Arkana wrote: »

and I would not be surprised if people are moaning and turning away from you.

Wouldn't be the first time.

Arkana wrote: »

But your entire conduct was definitely inappropriate.

On this, I completely disagree with you. I have abided by the forum rules. I have abided by the terms of service.
I have refrained from personal insults.
Have you?
While I may have been assertive in my positions, I genuinely feel I have not been aggressive.
While I casually disagree with, and call you on, your bull****, I genuinely feel I have done so with the amount of respect that is entitled to you by both law and forum rules.
If you want more than that, tough.

Noelhick · 22-07-2013 5:33pm

Well said that man !

Urizen · 22-07-2013 5:48pm

I'll be totally honest, this just looks like some people who either didn't get their own way in other groups, or simply wanted to run one themselves. I've seen that happen before, numerous times. And since you won't even give vague reasons for your dissatisfaction with existing groups, I just don't see why this is a thing.

Also, to weigh in on this, the manner in which you responded to CuAnnan's perfectly reasonable questions was excessively defensive, and very poor form.

Noelhick · 23-07-2013 7:22am

On the subject of Pagan groups and organisations in Ireland, I was wondering why more Pagans are not members of the Pagan Federation here ?
It seems to be a great organisation in Scotland & the UK.

maguffin · 23-07-2013 11:55am

Noelhick wrote: »

On the subject of Pagan groups and organisations in Ireland, I was wondering why more Pagans are not members of the Pagan Federation here ?
It seems to be a great organisation in Scotland & the UK.

Why does one need to be a member of any federation? Why not just practice your belief system within the context of your own life according to how you view it.
That's what I do...I have no need for federations/hierarchy/structured organisations or anything that might call itself a 'church'.

Blessed Be and Harm ye no one.

Morag · 23-07-2013 2:38pm

Noelhick wrote: »

On the subject of Pagan groups and organisations in Ireland, I was wondering why more Pagans are not members of the Pagan Federation here ?
It seems to be a great organisation in Scotland & the UK.

Cos historically Ireland was treated as an addon or adjunct to PFUK with only events happening in the UK being promoted here rather then having events here.

CuAnnan · 23-07-2013 6:14pm

Morag wrote: »

Cos historically Ireland was treated as an addon or adjunct to PFUK with only events happening in the UK being promoted here rather then having events here.

Is that still the case, in general?
I looked up the PFI website, and beyond it being a freewebs address rather than a paid for address (which is fine), it was kept up to date.
Could do with things like a google calendar and/or google maps to things. But that's neither here nor there.

Morag · 23-07-2013 6:18pm

Nope not as far as I am aware.
The current PFoI reps do their best but the 'brand' was damaged, so to speak.

CuAnnan · 23-07-2013 6:20pm

Understood. Thanks Morag.

Tabnabs · 24-07-2013 8:05pm

Is it still the case that you can only get Pagan Dawn by cheque/postal order? I always found that most peculiar...

Noelhick · 24-07-2013 8:45pm

it's only available through The Pagan Federation Ireland if youre a member. Single membership & Pagan Dawn per year is €30.73. Purchasing from Pagan Fed UK by subscription for the magazine only will cost £17, but wont post outside the UK,
so you have to go through Pagan Federation International, and single membership & pagan Dawn there is €45 ! pagan dawn Only through Pagan Fed Int is €34 per yearly subscription.

Arkana · 26-07-2013 6:40pm

Morag wrote: »

That really is quiet hilarious coming from you Arkana.

I don't think Cú's questions were aggressive, it seems you decided to pretend to be offended rather then answer them.

Having looked at the group and some of it members I will be giving it a wide berth.

You seem to be quite alone with your estimate - I have spoken to several people who share my opinion. And - probably the mods too. We will see.

Arkana · 26-07-2013 6:48pm

CuAnnan wrote: »

I must admit, the "there are other possibilities" comment has me curious.

Fine.

I think I have established by now that I value my devotion to the truth more than I value how other people think of me. (as usual - your perception of the 'truth' is obviously equally twisted than your perception of right and wrong).
I am told I have quite the reputation for it. And that the reputation is not all good. (I agree with that)
There are those who will see my abrasiveness as something close-to-but-distinct-from trolling. There are those who will see it as trolling. There are those who ask me what it's all about and then disagree with my methodology (you actually have a methodology??), if not my motivation. And there are those who agree with it all.
Do you know what, though?
It isn't a consideration.
(Tough for you)

Wouldn't be the first time. (again - even more tough for you)

On this, I completely disagree with you. I have abided (strange English - and, by the way you have NOT) by the forum rules. I have abided by the terms of service (you have NOT).
I have refrained from personal insults (you have NOT).
Have you?
While I may have been assertive in my positions, I genuinely feel I have not been aggressive (many people disagree with you).
While I casually disagree with, and call you on, your bull****, I genuinely feel I have done so with the amount of respect that is entitled to you by both law and forum rules (you are - with your twisted understanding of the terms, abusing the rules and terms - and certainly do NOT have a respectful conduct.).
If you want more than that, tough. (for you)

(comments in your text)

hairyheretic · 26-07-2013 7:21pm

And I think that's probably a good spot to draw this thread to a close. I prefer not to see things devolve any further than they have already.

New Group

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