CC3 -- Why I believe that a third option is needed for climate change

Oneiric 3 · 18-09-2020 10:16am

Akrasia wrote: »

They’re endorsing the candidate who has committed to tackling climate change who is running against a climate change denier

They’re not talking a position on any of his other social or economic policies

Which just proves how amoral they really are.

Oneiric 3 · 18-09-2020 10:18am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Apologies, but I actually didn't watch it, but I assume that she said, these events are related to climate change?

Serious question, but do you ever watch or read anything?

Danno · 18-09-2020 10:48am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

...or accelerate the development and implementation of alternatives.....

....the scary foreigners, really aren't all that scary.....

Foreigners adding to the already swelled C02 emissions of western/developed nations should be a very scary prospect for any climate change alerter worth their salt.

Wanderer78 · 18-09-2020 11:34am

Oneiric 3 wrote: »

Serious question, but do you ever watch or read anything?

do indeed, currently watching a debate on global poverty issues, with respected commentators

Danno wrote: »

Foreigners adding to the already swelled C02 emissions of western/developed nations should be a very scary prospect for any climate change alerter worth their salt.

no, im not overly concerned about it at all, we need different thinking, and these foreigners might just bring it with them, because its fairly obvious, us westerners are seriously struggling with it, its important to remember, the major defunding of the fossil fuel industry has begun, and ramping up of alternatives is taking its place

Danno · 18-09-2020 11:51am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

no, im not overly concerned about it at all, we need different thinking, and these foreigners might just bring it with them, because its fairly obvious, us westerners are seriously struggling with it, its important to remember, the major defunding of the fossil fuel industry has begun, and ramping up of alternatives is taking its place

So you support the brain drain from under-developed and developing nations, thereby keeping those nations in perpetual poverty as they will lack an educated work-force to develop.

Have you learned nothing from Ireland's experience of mass-emigration throughout the 1900s - it took us several generations to modernise somewhat.

You know as well as the next person that the vast vast majority of people coming to the developed nations are under-educated and by-and-large take up menial labour jobs, ideal candidates for the captains of industry to keep wages depressed.

Meanwhile, you and your ilk advocate for punitive carbon taxes which hammer the low-paid. Such an immoral and disgusting stance to hold.

Oneiric 3 · 18-09-2020 12:03pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

no, im not overly concerned about it at all, we need different thinking, and these foreigners might just bring it with them

What do you mean by this tough? In what way are 'we' thinking wrong and they, who are fleeing from their destitute native lands, thinking right? This needs explaining.

Wanderer78 · 18-09-2020 12:07pm

Danno wrote: »

So you support the brain drain from under-developed and developing nations, thereby keeping those nations in perpetual poverty as they will lack an educated work-force to develop.

Have you learned nothing from Ireland's experience of mass-emigration throughout the 1900s - it took us several generations to modernise somewhat.

You know as well as the next person that the vast vast majority of people coming to the developed nations are under-educated and by-and-large take up menial labour jobs, ideal candidates for the captains of industry to keep wages depressed.

Meanwhile, you and your ilk advocate for punitive carbon taxes which hammer the low-paid. Such an immoral and disgusting stance to hold.

no i dont support brain drain, but its important to realise why such actions exist, most of those countries have been subjected to external pressures, largely from western nations, such as our own, and one of the main tools used is 'debt peonage', from mainly western financial institutions. it is indeed such facts prevents these nations from escaping such situations, resulting in these outcomes.

again, low wage inflation is largely due to western created and implemented polices, this has been particularly evident in the last few decades, the so called, neoliberal/neoclassical era, i.e. it has little or nothing to do with the scary foreigners, in fact, they themselves have been subjected to the same political ideologies, over the last few decades, resulting in their plight.

i actually dont advocate for such things, one of the major faults of this political ideology is the fact, when governments default, particularly when trying to balance their books, they default to the only place they think they can, you! hence increase in taxation etc, this is now failing, in fact, theres a possibility we maybe experiencing its global collapse, only time will tell

Oneiric 3 · 18-09-2020 12:08pm

Danno wrote: »

You know as well as the next person that the vast vast majority of people coming to the developed nations are under-educated and by-and-large take up menial labour jobs, ideal candidates for the captains of industry to keep wages depressed.

https://www.independent.ie/business/jobs/not-enough-migrants-arriving-to-keep-pay-down-central-bank-38356212.html

As a left wing commentator said relatively recently (forget his name but will try and root him out) mass immigration, though dressed up as a 'left wing' ideal, is nothing of the sort, and really is just 'big business bonanza'.

Wanderer78 · 18-09-2020 12:10pm

Oneiric 3 wrote: »

What do you mean by this tough? In what way are 'we' thinking wrong and they, who are fleeing from their destitute native lands, thinking right? This needs explaining.

its clearly obvious, something catastrophic is occurring, in many respects, to life on this planet, the most obvious being environmental issues, different thinking is required to begin dealing with these issues, the scary foreigners may just be able to help with this different thinking, as us westerners seemed to be too arrogant to accept, we re fcuking up!

Oneiric 3 · 18-09-2020 12:15pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

its clearly obvious, something catastrophic is occurring, in many respects, to life on this planet, the most obvious being environmental issues, different thinking is required to begin dealing with these issues, the scary foreigners may just be able to help with this different thinking, as us westerners seemed to be too arrogant to accept, we re fcuking up!

I don't follow this train of logic though. It sounds legit but you forget that these 'different thinkers' are fleeing to regions that are heavily dependent on fossil fuels in order to obtain a better standard of living for themselves and not the other way around.

Wanderer78 · 18-09-2020 12:19pm

Oneiric 3 wrote: »

I don't follow this train of logic though. It sounds legit but you forget that these 'different thinkers' are fleeing to regions that are heavily dependent on fossil fuels in order to obtain a better standard of living for themselves and not the other way around.

they are indeed fleeing, but the truth is, we re all getting screwed by more or less the same policies and ideologies, and from my own experiences, different cultures think and approach problems differently, we have to start working together to try solve these issues, by accepting these individuals into our lives, it might just increase the likelihood of us resolving these similar problems, together, but if we continue to build walls, both metaphorically and in realty, we reduce this likelihood

Danno · 18-09-2020 2:59pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

its clearly obvious, something catastrophic is occurring, in many respects, to life on this planet, the most obvious being environmental issues, different thinking is required to begin dealing with these issues, the scary foreigners may just be able to help with this different thinking, as us westerners seemed to be too arrogant to accept, we re fcuking up!

We must not be fcuking up too badly because at the last estimate over 750m in Asia, Africa and Latin America would up sticks and move to the west. I cannot fathom how they will think much different when it is our way of life that inspires them. :rolleyes:

Gaoth Laidir · 18-09-2020 4:11pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Hahaha, no bother, once again, I've moved on from the science, Ive accepted the science since childhood, I spent my time looking into why this is happening, particularly from a more political, social, psychological and economic point of view, as they say, there's only so many hours in the day....

So you haven't bothered with the science of it, don't want to hear squat about any new discoveries, advances, but you still comment on the science because you're interested in politics, psychology and economics. That's some logic right there.

Thank you for explaining this, I have to somewhat agree with what she's saying, I do believe the planet is trying to balance this increase in energy, or the increase in energy, is manifesting in more frequent and more intense storms.

Case in point...

Please explain your final statement? Thank you

I think I just have. Plenty of people with little or no knowledge of the subject other than the hyperbolic spin they read from others with an equally low level of knowledge.

Wanderer78 · 18-09-2020 5:06pm

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

So you haven't bothered with the science of it, don't want to hear squat about any new discoveries, advances, but you still comment on the science because you're interested in politics, psychology and economics. That's some logic right there.

Case in point...

I think I just have. Plenty of people with little or no knowledge of the subject other than the hyperbolic spin they read from others with an equally low level of knowledge.

ive spent about 5 years at third level studying the science, which has lead me into the world of politics, psychology, economics, social science etc etc etc.......

...so yes, ive completely ignored the science!:rolleyes:

you wouldnt be judgmental now, would you!

Oneiric 3 · 18-09-2020 6:53pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

ive spent about 5 years at third level studying the science, which has lead me into the world of politics, psychology, economics, social science etc etc etc.......

I think you, and other higher minds on here, will appreciate this discussion so. And there is much, and much from many angles, to be taken from it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5C2qwbBM0s

Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5C2qwbBM0s

As I recall a lecturer of mine years ago saying: the real purpose of fiction is to shine a light on the bigger truths (or something along that line)

Wanderer78 · 18-09-2020 7:03pm

Oneiric 3 wrote: »

I think you, and other higher minds on here, will appreciate this discussion so. And there is much, and much from many angles, to be taken from it:

As I recall a lecturer of mine years ago saying: the real purpose of fiction is to shine a light on the bigger truths (or something along that line)

thank you, i ll check it out when i get a chance. no such thing as the perfect society either, our most commonly known ideologies are all utopic in my opinion, in particular our so called free market....

Gaoth Laidir · 18-09-2020 8:50pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

ive spent about 5 years at third level studying the science, which has lead me into the world of politics, psychology, economics, social science etc etc etc.......

...so yes, ive completely ignored the science!:rolleyes:

you wouldnt be judgmental now, would you!

Five years but they didn't teach about things like the AMO? And you did all that when you were a kid? Good for you!

Wanderer78 · 18-09-2020 9:24pm

Gaoth Laidir wrote:

Five years but they didn't teach about things like the AMO? And you did all that when you were a kid? Good for you!

No idea what amo is, couldn't be bothered googling? Yes, like most irish I started school at about 4/5, I've no idea where this is going? I realised we had serious environmental issues at primary level, I've met others that have had similar experiences, I'm special alright, but not that fcuking special!

Nabber · 18-09-2020 11:24pm

Wanderer you could be confused as a troll.

"With nearly 7.7 billion people inhabiting this Earth, every choice, every footprint, every action makes a difference," the Duke of Sussex said on Instagram a few days before jetting off with the Duchess to Ibiza, Spain and then to Nice, France.

BBC calculates that those two flights alone produced six times more emissions than the average Briton does each year and over 100 times more than the average resident of the African nation of Lesotho.

“I’m calling on the press to cease these relentless and untrue assassinations,” said Elton John.

“Imagine being attacked” tweeted Ellen, the comedian, “when all you’re trying to do is make the world a better place.”

Poor rich people. At least they know the science is settled and just choose to ignore it. Oneiric... You could do with some of that enlightenment, accept then ignore. Life is easier that way.

Nearly 1,500 private jets to land at climate change-focused Davos summit
https://nypost.com/2019/01/23/nearly-1500-private-jets-to-land-at-climate-change-focused-davos-summit/

"All our environmental problems become easier to solve with fewer people, and harder - and ultimately impossible - to solve with ever more people."

– Sir David Attenborough, Population Matters patron

When asked about the greater effects of his proposals on poorer families he coldly responded: “Yes. I’m afraid that is the case.”

What a legend. Lets keep the poor down and reduce the population.

Wanderer78 · 19-09-2020 8:52am

Nabber wrote:

Wanderer you could be confused as a troll.

That's interesting!

Shepards Delight · 20-09-2020 12:28am

reading alot of the posts on this particular topic and alot of the recent posts make no sense .topic closed i would say .

Wanderer78 · 20-09-2020 5:00am

Shepards Delight wrote:

reading alot of the posts on this particular topic and alot of the recent posts make no sense .topic closed i would say .

In what sense?

Danno · 20-09-2020 11:05am

Shepards Delight wrote: »

reading alot of the posts on this particular topic and alot of the recent posts make no sense .topic closed i would say .

No need for that.

There is plenty of commentary from both sides of the debate encompassing all aspects of climate change and how it plays out in weather events, politics and our everyday lives.

If you feel you have nothing to contribute, I suggest you don't advocate for the discussion to stop and be closed.

20-09-2020 11:32am

Shepards Delight wrote: »

.

You obviously didn't see that red sky at night.
This topic is as hot now as it has ever been, but it is going round in loops a bit as would be expected.
Having said that, I still believe that MT's original point stands.

Gaoth Laidir · 20-09-2020 1:52pm

Watching the Southampton v Spurs match now and it's another match with 7 goals. That's three 7-goal matches this weekend, to add to the high number of goals last weekend too. I'm just waiting for someone to comment that all these extra goals are all due to increased ghg and more evidence of the devastating effect the rich are having on the more vulnerable. :pac:

20-09-2020 2:26pm

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

Watching the Southampton v Spurs match now and it's another match with 7 goals. That's three 7-goal matches this weekend, to add to the high number of goals last weekend too. I'm just waiting for someone to comment that all these extra goals are all due to increased ghg and more evidence of the devastating effect the rich are having on the more vulnerable. :pac:

How about optical illusions being less likely in the future due to CC :rolleyes:
https://www.bbc.com/reel/video/p08rg6yc/the-floating-cities-we-might-lose-forever

From floating castles to phantom ships, the optical illusion known as Fata Morgana has given origin to many myths and legends. The so-called superior mirage is the result of thermal inversion, an acute temperature difference between the water and the air above it. It is most common in polar regions, where the water is coldest.

Nabber · 20-09-2020 6:53pm

I feel that the pandemic has put CO2 emissions reduction in a fragile position. If you went back to this time 2019 and the pressure from green parties resulted in the lockdown of global economies for 4 months it would have been signaled as a triumph.
Now that we have been in lockdown, the message from global alarmists is stronger than ever. The pandemic did nothing are the head lines.

The pandemic didn't solve climate change. This week's disasters are proof
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/09/18/weather/coronavirus-lockdowns-climate-change-extreme-weather-intl/index.html

Usual shíte from CNN, as I don't think anyone expected that a change would be observed in the short term. Particularly based on the AGW model.

But it does raise the question, is CO2 reduction required to halt the proposed AGW warming possible within the next 50 years? If it is possible at what cost?

Perhaps diverting away from solar renewables and investing green taxes into carbon scrubbing or cold fusion is the answer. Standard of living and life expectancy are tied to available energy. The emancipation of women from the kitchen is inextricable tied to energy. Having people accept AGW as a problem is one thing... actually getting them to do something meaningful is a challenge. That is in my opinion not going to happen regardless of environmental the impacts. History shows that human suffering or environmental devastation hasn't stopped us in the past or at the present from seeking a better life.

Gaoth Laidir · 20-09-2020 8:25pm

I can't believe that they show a landfalling hurricane in the prime of the hurricane season in a location that is a typical target area and claim it to be something abnormal. Strange that they never mentioned that the US didn't get hit by anything higher than a Cat 2 for 13 years, from 2006-2018. It's criminal, right out of the Nancy Pelosi school of journalism. For once I agree with Trump, fake news, but of course CNN are not the only ones at it. This is where the general population get their "facts" on topics like this. These feature pieces from main networks of repute, such as CNN, BBC, etc. but in reality they are nothing more than factually incorrect propaganda. BBC were great for David Attenborough's nature programmes showing things like a Lyra bird imitating a camera shutter or a chainsaw, but lately they've been contaminating every piece with misleading statements on these creatures' imminent demise from agw. Complete nonsense.

paleoperson · 20-09-2020 10:15pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

ive spent about 5 years at third level studying the science, which has lead me into the world of politics, psychology, economics, social science etc etc etc.......

...so yes, ive completely ignored the science!:rolleyes:

you wouldnt be judgmental now, would you!

ah yes the failed researcher track - very common these days. You get to talk big about how you're so important and leech taxpayers money for as long as conceivably possible with all the student grants and funding these days, never ending up with any job other than lowly minimum wage labwork given out of pity.

Shepards Delight · 20-09-2020 11:36pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You obviously didn't see that red sky at night.
This topic is as hot now as it has ever been, but it is going round in loops a bit as would be expected.
Having said that, I still believe that MT's original point stands.

Ya your right some nights i be lucky to see the sky at night atall cloud is what i normally see ðŸ˜Š

Wanderer78 · 21-09-2020 8:29am

paleoperson wrote:

ah yes the failed researcher track - very common these days. You get to talk big about how you're so important and leech taxpayers money for as long as conceivably possible with all the student grants and funding these days, never ending up with any job other than lowly minimum wage labwork given out of pity.

Hahaha, people are nuts on the Internets!

There's nothing important about me, no leeching here, I've worked hard for my education, and still do, but I'm truly grateful for the people of ireland for supporting me through all of my education, and the millions of others that have availed of this critical service. it truly has transformed our country, helped us in advancing, and becoming such a more wealthier and prosperous nation. I'm sure many older generations can remember ireland, while growing up, it wasn't exactly amazing, with many being forced to leave our educational system in both primary and secondary levels, early, so the family could survive. Opening up our educational system to most citizens, via subsidisation, has truly transformed all of our lives, so again, I say, thank you to all citizens

Wanderer78 · 21-09-2020 10:29am

an interesting video....

https://twitter.com/i/status/1307634368391806981

Gaoth Laidir · 21-09-2020 1:13pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

an interesting video....

Not sure what's so scary about that at all. Thermokarsts have been well documented for decades and are common in tundra regions, including Siberia. Nothing new there.

Wanderer78 · 21-09-2020 1:15pm

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

Not sure what's so scary about that at all. Thermokarsts have been well documented for decades and are common in tundra regions, including Siberia. Nothing new there.

fair enough, no offence, but i ll stick with my own 'propaganda'

Akrasia · 25-09-2020 7:50am

A new study in Science attributes extreme heat events in our oceans to Climate change. Events that have a natural frequency of 1 in a century to once in a thousand years are now occurring once every 10 years. These extreme events are responsible for disrupting food chains and have been the cause of mass mortalities of apex species in recent years and are likely to become annual events if we allow climate change to reach 3c above pre-industrial levels

Marine heatwaves (MHWs)—periods of extremely high ocean temperatures in specific regions—have occurred in all of Earth’s ocean basins over the past two decades, with severe negative impacts on marine organisms and ecosystems. However, for most individual MHWs, it is unclear to what extent they have been altered by human-induced climate change. We show that the occurrence probabilities of the duration, intensity, and cumulative intensity of most documented, large, and impactful MHWs have increased more than 20-fold as a result of anthropogenic climate change. MHWs that occurred only once every hundreds to thousands of years in the preindustrial climate are projected to become decadal to centennial events under 1.5°C warming conditions and annual to decadal events under 3°C warming conditions.

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/369/6511/1621

Gaoth Laidir · 25-09-2020 9:17am

I see that the Irish kids with the American accents will be striking again today. They seem to have lost some attention during the pandemic so now it's time to get themselves back in the spotlight. Two were on the radio this morning, talking about how we missed our "twenny twenny" emission targets (intonation rising at the end of the sentence, just like a proper American). One has chosen not to go to school as she believes the schools should not be open. She "might" go back next month. Said she has asthma but is still ok to stand outside protesting...

A great future ahead, we have.

Oneiric 3 · 25-09-2020 11:36am

"Inspired by the adults around you who crave the feeling of having a noble cause while they indulge themselves in western luxury and unprecedented quality of life"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1RbgGB1Q3s

No one like the Aussies to not pussyfoot around the bush.

Danno · 25-09-2020 12:57pm

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

I see that the Irish kids with the American accents will be striking again today. They seem to have lost some attention during the pandemic so now it's time to get themselves back in the spotlight. Two were on the radio this morning, talking about how we missed our "twenny twenny" emission targets (intonation rising at the end of the sentence, just like a proper American). One has chosen not to go to school as she believes the schools should not be open. She "might" go back next month. Said she has asthma but is still ok to stand outside protesting...

A great future ahead, we have.

Reminds me of this great post over on the farming forum a while back and it perfectly sums these types up:

riemann wrote: »

Their answer to everything is increase taxes. This hits the poor much harder than others.

Their demographic is NIMBY middle class dogooders who spend most of their time parading around on their bicycles in Ranelagh to collect their daily supply of avacados in Fallon and Byrne (fresh from South America) , to try out a recepie they seen in a vegan cookbook picked up on one of their all two frequent "short weekend breaks" across Europe.

Preaching to the rest of us that we're destroying the world and should go back to a more sustainable way of farming which their non binary cis gendered son/daughter Lesley will happily explain to you as they spent a summer building mud huts with a tribe in Sudan and thus have it all figured out.

For what's its worth I would agree with a green agenda in so far as a philosophy of "first do no harm", but the reality is people want and expect cheap food. In a lot of cases it's not hard to understand why as many people are squeezed from all sides so will cut costs any way they can.

Going green is a rich person's pursuit in the current climate.

Akrasia · 25-09-2020 2:09pm

Sorry, I must be in the wrong place, I thought this was a science forum....

25-09-2020 2:18pm

Akrasia wrote: »

Sorry, I must be in the wrong place, I thought this was a science forum....

You just need to remember that about 95%* of the climate change debate is non-scientific in nature, so it will creep in from time to time.

*I'm sure I can magic up some data to back that assertion if requested.

Akrasia · 25-09-2020 2:37pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You just need to remember that about 95%* of the climate change debate is non-scientific in nature, so it will creep in from time to time.

*I'm sure I can magic up some data to back that assertion if requested.

Maybe 95% by volume, but not by merit or value.

‘Poisoning the well‘ is a fallacy. ‘This idea cannot be valid because this untrustworthy person proclaimed it”

There is an awful lot of this going on here while actual scientific arguments and evidence tends to be ignored or dismissed

Gaoth Laidir · 25-09-2020 3:53pm

Akrasia wrote: »

Maybe 95% by volume, but not by merit or value.

‘Poisoning the well‘ is a fallacy. ‘This idea cannot be valid because this untrustworthy person proclaimed it”

There is an awful lot of this going on here while actual scientific arguments and evidence tends to be ignored or dismissed

Akrasia · 25-09-2020 6:00pm

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

Poisoning the well is where you take something irrelevant to the argument and use it to discredit the arguments themselves

I've always given peer reviewed scientific papers their due respect if they are published in reputable journals, and If I challenge a scientific paper, it is with reference to other scientific data that has contradictory findings

If contrarian opinions are not backed up by published science in good quality journals, then it's just personal opinion and can be disregarded as such (and this goes for so called climate extremists as well as those who try to downplay the risks of climate change)

What you're doing is mocking the 'american' accents from some teenagers and using this to discredit the need to act on climate change

Did you look at the paper I posted from Science today?

Gaoth Laidir · 25-09-2020 7:29pm

Akrasia wrote: »

Poisoning the well is where you take something irrelevant to the argument and use it to discredit the arguments themselves

I've always given peer reviewed scientific papers their due respect if they are published in reputable journals, and If I challenge a scientific paper, it is with reference to other scientific data that has contradictory findings

If contrarian opinions are not backed up by published science in good quality journals, then it's just personal opinion and can be disregarded as such (and this goes for so called climate extremists as well as those who try to downplay the risks of climate change)

What you're doing is mocking the 'american' accents from some teenagers and using this to discredit the need to act on climate change

Did you look at the paper I posted from Science today?

I was referring to the bit about discrediting a piece based on who wrote/said it. You've done that yourself more than once in the past.

I'm mocking those kids as they are getting away with murder under the guise of the climate crisis. They're been clapped on the back by grown-ups for being so "mature", yet in reality they're just spoilt social wannabees looking for attention. One on this morning said it will be the end of humanity if we don't react NOW! I bet she couldn't tell one end of a graph from another if you showed her, but that's ok because she got her info from having her head stuck in her phone watching some other kid spouting the same hyperbole. Then again, it's not only the kids who spout this nonsense, just look here sometimes.

The American accent bit just confirmation that these kids spend more time on social media and probably no time reading a book or looking up facts for themselves. There seem to be very few of them with genuine local accents.

I haven't had a chance to read the paper yet but I will.

Nabber · 25-09-2020 11:58pm

Deleted User wrote: »

You just need to remember that about 95%* of the climate change debate is non-scientific in nature, so it will creep in from time to time.

*I'm sure I can magic up some data to back that assertion if requested.

Some what disingenuous to folks on both sides of the argument.
As the discussions on corrective actions is typically the melting pot of denial and virtue signaling. The science maybe settled :P:P But in todays climate the path forward is a twisting winding scocio-economic journey where the settled science can only watch on :pac::pac:

Nothing is done to manage expectations. The general public think that meeting the targets set out in the Paris Agreement (PA) is all we need. There is complete neglect from MSM or alarmists to acknowledge that the PA is one tiny step. Even if we stopped all emissions today, based on the AGW theory the planets temps will still rise and potentially centuries will need to pass before temps return to 'normal'. 1000s of years till CO2 return to normal.

Given our ability to adapt and the unprecedent growth in technology year on year. It's better for us a species to work on reducing poverty and increasing access to education. Increase our collective brain power and figure out alternative energy sources or cheaper carbon stores.

Rather what we have is a settled science :cool:, that has been used to justify hundreds of billions globally invested into inefficient energy sources. To put it in perspective we'd need a wind farm the size of Spain to replace carbon emissions.
If we invested in Nuclear we'd be in a much better situation. Maybe that solution is too easy, it would damage the agenda :pac::pac:

See lack of nuclear investment

Gaoth Laidir · 26-09-2020 12:37am

Akrasia wrote: »

A new study in Science attributes extreme heat events in our oceans to Climate change. Events that have a natural frequency of 1 in a century to once in a thousand years are now occurring once every 10 years. These extreme events are responsible for disrupting food chains and have been the cause of mass mortalities of apex species in recent years and are likely to become annual events if we allow climate change to reach 3c above pre-industrial levels

That article is behind a paywall for me.

Wanderer78 · 26-09-2020 6:23am

Nabber wrote:

See lack of nuclear investment

I do actually agree with this, and I have believed for a very long time, I'm currently not fully convinced renewables can fill the gap of fossil fuels for our power needs, and we should be including nuclear development also, I'm hearing great things about thorium reactors, but as far as I'm aware, we donâ€™t actually have a functioning industrial reactor yet.

Danno · 26-09-2020 11:06am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I do actually agree with this, and I have believed for a very long time, I'm currently not fully convinced renewables can fill the gap of fossil fuels for our power needs, and we should be including nuclear development also, I'm hearing great things about thorium reactors, but as far as I'm aware, we don’t actually have a functioning industrial reactor yet.

I can also agree with this, nuclear is the way Ireland should go - not only replacing traditional FF fired stations but also replacing the inefficient wind turbines also.

We have destroyed vast swathes of our countryside with one-off housing and mono-forests and it seems the powers that be want to bludgeon whats left and unspoilt with hideous looking turbine blades.

It's time to call halt to it all. Time for the watermelon movement and the realists to come together and demand nuclear becomes our clean energy source.

Oneiric 3 · 26-09-2020 12:58pm

From Danno's posted quote:

"For what's its worth I would agree with a green agenda in so far as a philosophy of "first do no harm", but the reality is people want and expect cheap food".

My response: A few days or even a couple of weeks without access to food will do these clinical, sterile neoliberalists the world of good. There is nothing like an empty belly to reset one's priorities in life.

Wanderer78 · 26-09-2020 1:45pm

Danno wrote: »

I can also agree with this, nuclear is the way Ireland should go - not only replacing traditional FF fired stations but also replacing the inefficient wind turbines also.

We have destroyed vast swathes of our countryside with one-off housing and mono-forests and it seems the powers that be want to bludgeon whats left and unspoilt with hideous looking turbine blades.

It's time to call halt to it all. Time for the watermelon movement and the realists to come together and demand nuclear becomes our clean energy source.

id somewhat disagree with your first statement, current generation turbines may have poor efficiency, but unless we have them, we wont be able to increase their efficiency, over time. i believe renewables are a critical component, of meeting our future power needs, but we currently need their existence, in order to work on all of their issues.

its important to realise why theres so much resistance to nuclear, we all know what happens when it fails, when it fails, it really really fails, but its also important to realise how many reactors, globally, have worked for many decades, with little or no problems whatsoever. i do believe this is a major failure in the political left, they aint seeing the wood from the trees at all on this one, and i suspect those left leaning commentators who believe in nuclear could be right, we ll probably find out when its too late.

our housing planning issues certainly are an issue, but enlarging our towns and cities, is also causing problems, particularly complex social problems. id have to somewhat disagree about the look of turbines, i kinna like the look of them, but i can understand your opinion, ive come across many of the same opinions regarding their look and existence, they probably need to go out to sea, but that probably wouldnt make them financially viable.

i wish you the best with trying to get nuclear over the line, as it currently looks impossible to do, and this isnt just an irish problem, reactors are slowly being shut down, globally

CC3 -- Why I believe that a third option is needed for climate change

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