Anti-dog sentiments increase?

sillysmiles · 07-01-2019 9:46pm #1

With the new Fingal CC bye laws regarding dogs in parks, do you think anti-dog sentiment is increasing?
Or potentially becoming more polarised?

Personally I think that having dogs more a part of everyday life would make it more of a societal norm for dogs to be well treated and reduce the amount of badly behaved under socialised incessantly barking garden ornaments that currently exist as the Irish norm of dog ownership.

07-01-2019 10:23pm

Personally, I just adore dogs, indeed all animals, as my username might suggest. I also love to travel and see in most European and other first world countries dogs are kept on leash, except in specified places. Indeed in Fingal there are doggie places, including a doggie café in Ardgillen estate. I do appreciate some people are terrified of dogs, and that dogs owners must be thoroughly responsible. All breeds with strong jaws and who have been bred for security purposes should be muzzled when out in public. The lurcher/long legged/sighthound breeds need to be kept on leash as they have small prey drive and will bound out at speed and may ignore owners’ commands, but are generally no threat to humans. Huskies are eager creatures and appreciate something to “pull”, but are generally extremely biddable, German Shepherds are wonderful dogs, but generally obey one master only and need a huge amount of training and interaction and must always under command of his master. It’s so important to choose the right dog. Far too many people choose a dog mindlessly.

Plumbthedepths · 07-01-2019 10:30pm

There wouldn't be as much anti dog feeling if owners cleaned up their dogs fecal matter, and maybe had better control.

sillysmiles · 08-01-2019 12:57pm

There is no excuse for people not cleaning up after their dog.

However, my point is more that, dogs being under socialised is often a key cause of the behaviours we don't want to see. Increasing socialisation often requires dogs to be around other dogs and people and places. Increasing the number and acceptance of well behaved dogs would make it more socially unacceptable for bad/lazy owners to allow their dogs to act like louts. My thoughts being that rather than having no dogs arpund that the dogs that are around aren't bothering people because they are calm and socialised.

tk123 · 08-01-2019 1:53pm

The bye-laws annoy me because it's discrimination imo. Our park doesn't allow cycling at any times whereas dogs are officially allowed off lead during certain times. If DCC started telling kids over the age of 10 and people to get off their bikes there would be murder and they'd all be on to Joe Duffy etc etc . Pensioners have been clipped by bikes flying through the park as well as my own poor Lucy who was hit before Christmas

so in our park at least some bikes can pose a danger... Yet it's dog walkers who get targeted because there's monetary gain from it. I keep my dogs under control, have licenses, clean up after them and generally avoid the park (ours is DCC) when there's going to be people/lots of other dogs around to annoy us - they're not running amok annoying anyone or savaging children or other dogs. If an area of the park is empty I don't see why I should have to keep the dogs on their leads when the other bye laws are ignored.

rom · 08-01-2019 1:59pm

Extendable leads are the most annoying thing ever invented. Dog on one side of path, owner on other side joined by 15 ft lead. Leads should be under 6ft.

PixelTrawler · 10-01-2019 3:38pm

rom wrote: »

Extendable leads are the most annoying thing ever invented. Dog on one side of path, owner on other side joined by 15 ft lead. Leads should be under 6ft.

As a runner, absolutely yes. The amount of times I've almost been tripped at night with owners with 3 to 4 metre leads, face buried in a phone, and the dog out at the edge of the path. Very dangerous hazard.

em_cat · 10-01-2019 7:21pm

I just read about the new by-laws, not sure there is much in it. Several of the parks in DCC, SCC & the piers in DLRC all have the same and additional for cyclists.

Point being I don’t see it as not anti dog sentiment it’s just bringing it in line with other parks. TBH I’ve never seen it enforced.

We use to go to a lot of parks but don’t now as Mr C seems a lot more relaxed walking else where. Also he is always on a flat lead and pretty much walks to heel.

em_cat · 10-01-2019 7:27pm

PixelTrawler wrote: »

As a runner, absolutely yes. The amount of times I've almost been tripped at night with owners with 3 to 4 metre leads, face buried in a phone, and the dog out at the edge of the path. Very dangerous hazard.

I always feel kind of sorry for runners, I either stop with our lad on my inside or step aside to let them pass.

Whelo79 · 10-01-2019 7:31pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I also love to travel and see in most European and other first world countries dogs are kept on leash, except in specified places.

Most of these other countries also allow dogs onto public transport, cafes, shops, airplanes etc, unfortunately Ireland is extremely anti-dog.

The cafe in ardgillan closed last year and the few cafes that were allowing dogs in were under threat from the health inspector. I know rules on this were relaxed last year and it is now under the decision of the premises owner (with certain rules applying) but owners are slow to change.

As another poster has said, many of the issues with dogs are down to the owners. Either no training has been done or the dog has been poorly socialised. For many dogs being on a lead causes them stress and anxiety, specifically when approached by another dog.

There is a lot of education still required in this country on dog ownership responsibilities unfortunately.

tk123 · 10-01-2019 8:24pm

The issue they had in Malahide (according to the guy on the radio) was that the old bye laws weren’t being enforced and were then changed without any consultation adding more restrictions. I’ve was asked if I had a license when Bailey was a baby and the warden was knocking around doors in the area, and last year in St Anne’s 8 years later! When I called with the details I had to explain what a lifetime dog license was!

Whelo79 · 10-01-2019 9:20pm

tk123 wrote: »

The issue they had in Malahide (according to the guy on the radio) was that the old bye laws weren’t being enforced and were then changed without any consultation adding more restrictions. I’ve was asked if I had a license when Bailey was a baby and the warden was knocking around doors in the area, and last year in St Anne’s 8 years later! When I called with the details I had to explain what a lifetime dog license was!

That's definitely a large party of the problem, there were laws in place that FCC say weren't working, but they only weren't working because FCC were not enforcing them.

FCC also say they carried out an extensive campaign over a number of months to get peoples opinions, yet they only managed to get just over 600 responses. I could have got more than that on my own in a week.

Out of those responses 51% voted for a change to the bye law and 49% voted to keep the bye law as it was. However, when you look into the actual responses, many of those who voted for the bye law to be changed only wanted it to be applied to specific dogs/situations.

FCC have also been continually stating that they are changing the law as they have received numerous reports of serious incidents/attacks by dogs in FCC parks. However a freedom of information act was applied for last month (which FCC charged €270 to compile) to receive record of these reports and what came back had not one single record of a reported attack in ANY FCC parks.

The law didn't need changing, it just needed enforcing.

sillysmiles · 11-01-2019 11:15am

Whelo79 wrote: »

FCC have also been continually stating that they are changing the law as they have received numerous reports of serious incidents/attacks by dogs in FCC parks. However a freedom of information act was applied for last month (which FCC charged €270 to compile) to receive record of these reports and what came back had not one single record of a reported attack in ANY FCC parks.

I had read that too and found it bizarre in the extreme.

IMO the reality is that dog owners are the only people willing to walk through parks every day hail rain or shine. Having parks and public places more used makes them less likely to become "no go" areas and places associated with "anti-social behaviour".

Having more people using a park, makes it more usable I think.

tk123 · 11-01-2019 11:28am

sillysmiles wrote: »

I had read that too and found it bizarre in the extreme.

IMO the reality is that dog owners are the only people willing to walk through parks every day hail rain or shine. Having parks and public places more used makes them less likely to become "no go" areas and places associated with "anti-social behaviour".

Having more people using a park, makes it more usable I think.

+1

I'd assume its good for local businessness to have dog walkers around. Rain or shine..ok well maybe not torrential rain

... we're out having a coffee each week along with all the other dog walkers!

I actually had a toddler running at Lucy the other day - Lucy is afraid of toddlers... had let her off lead and call to my friend up ahead to call her so she could make her escape. Yet I'm in the wrong if the dogs looked at the kid sideways.. 'you never know when a dog will run over to somebody' etc etc :rolleyes::rolleyes: Normally if a parent asks can the toddler pet her I tell them that she's shy and to pet Bailey instead... if the kid is old enough to ask themselves she's generally fine with them.

sillysmiles · 11-01-2019 11:34am

Thankfully our fella is quiet and likes kids but I have had kids land on him when we've been out. He has always been fine but I know that he also has spots of spondylitis in his back - not that you'd know to look at him.

I terms of animal welfare though, this country is appalling and I think all of these moves to make dogs seem dirty dangerous, not something that should be around people makes improving animal welfare harder.

eagle eye · 11-01-2019 11:54am

I'm a dog owner, we currently have two, and I'm all for dogs being taken off people when haven't a clue what or are just bad owners.
Like every dog owner/walker should carry a pooper-scooper. If you are not willing to do this then give the dog to somebody who will do it.
Dogs that bark incessantly or bite do these things because the have bad owners.

lawred2 · 11-01-2019 12:01pm

Well anecdotal it may be but I've definitely observed a significant increase in the amount of dog sh!t on paths and parks

So the bigger problem might be a decrease in the levels of responsibility owners are taking.

sillysmiles · 11-01-2019 12:08pm

lawred2 wrote: »

Well anecdotal it may be but I've definitely observed a significant increase in the amount of dog sh!t on paths and parks

So the bigger problem might be a decrease in the levels of responsibility owners are taking.

I do wonder if often that comes from the type that lets there dog out the front door but doesn't actually take them for a walk. I live in a rural area so I don't see that, but when I take my dog into town I tend to have multiple bags in my pockets and car.

lawred2 · 11-01-2019 4:14pm

tk123 wrote: »

+1

I'd assume its good for local businessness to have dog walkers around. Rain or shine..ok well maybe not torrential rain ... we're out having a coffee each week along with all the other dog walkers!

I actually had a toddler running at Lucy the other day - Lucy is afraid of toddlers... had let her off lead and call to my friend up ahead to call her so she could make her escape. Yet I'm in the wrong if the dogs looked at the kid sideways.. 'you never know when a dog will run over to somebody' etc etc :rolleyes::rolleyes: Normally if a parent asks can the toddler pet her I tell them that she's shy and to pet Bailey instead... if the kid is old enough to ask themselves she's generally fine with them.

and why exactly did you do that in a public area?

tk123 · 11-01-2019 4:20pm

Obey the bye laws of the park I pay for with my taxes you mean?

tk123 wrote: »

Our park doesn't allow cycling at any times whereas dogs are officially allowed off lead during certain times.

uck51js9zml2yt · 11-01-2019 6:34pm

tk123 wrote: »

Obey the bye laws of the park I pay for with my taxes you mean?

We pay a "tax" for our dogs. Cyclists pay nothing.

I'll get my coat

I'm a cyclist but not currently a dog owner!

sillysmiles · 14-01-2019 12:25pm

lawred2 wrote: »

and why exactly did you do that in a public area?

Because the there is no reason why a dog has to be on a lead - except now with the new by-laws

tk123 · 14-01-2019 1:01pm

sillysmiles wrote: »

Because the there is no reason why a dog has to be on a lead - except now with the new by-laws

We were actually obeying our park's bye laws. They're allowed off lead one hour before closing and that's when we were in the park. We were off the path.. toddler came running to the strange dogs and I took responsibility and sent Lucy off towards my friend rather the have her afraid.

Dubl07 · 18-01-2019 11:54pm

Certain non-European cultures regard dogs as inherently dirty and that has been an issue, even with guide dogs, in some situations. As Ireland becomes more multi-cultural it's important for us to educate new and indigent citizens about all of their and our responsibilities.

em_cat · 19-01-2019 12:52am

I would think we have more of an acceptance, say more than in the US. Mr C goes to the pub, he gets a tiny pint

and he goes into just about any place I go including pharmacies, GP, the NRH, cafes, shops etc.

tomoliver · 19-01-2019 12:55am

i had a couple of bad experiences as a kid

i don't like walkers approaching with dogs off the leash

mattser · 19-01-2019 1:06am

tomoliver wrote: »

i had a couple of bad experiences as a kid

i don't like walkers approaching with dogs off the leash

S***fest coming your way Tom.
They might even suggest you need to see someone.

eagle eye · 19-01-2019 1:07am

I was attacked by an Alsatian when I was three years old, ran out on the road and was almost knocked down by a car.
I was bitten by a jealous sheep dog when I was four at my grandmother's house, that dog was put down.
I was attacked by three dogs at another relatives house when I was five.
I have two dogs myself at the moment. You can be certain that the owners are responsible for how a dog turns out. My two just want to love you and lick you whether it's the first time they've met you or it's any of the family.
Training is so important. The way you treat your dogs is so important.

I think you should have to do a course and be qualified in order to own a dog. I think there would be a lot less owners unfortunately but there'd be very little biting and attacks on people.

Cherry Blossom · 19-01-2019 1:30am

mattser wrote: »

S***fest coming your way Tom.
They might even suggest you need to see someone.

Yellow Carded, trolling/derogatory comments against the users of this forum are not tolerated.

DBB · 20-01-2019 12:15am

em_cat wrote: »

I would think we have more of an acceptance, say more than in the US. Mr C goes to the pub, he gets a tiny pint and he goes into just about any place I go including pharmacies, GP, the NRH, cafes, shops etc.

That just might be the most adorable thing I've ever read on this forum

em_cat · 20-01-2019 2:20pm

DBB wrote: »

That just might be the most adorable thing I've ever read on this forum

It was a surprise, my OH came back to the table with our drinks & the barman poped over to make sure Mr C was sound! He definitely prefers Guinness over the others...

Anti-dog sentiments increase?

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