Calving 2019 - Advice and Help thread

charolais0153 · 19-01-2019 1:07am

greysides wrote: »

Needs must, when the devil drives. Just keep in mind that something like 20-30% of Irish dairy herds are infected with Johnes Disease. As diseases go, it's a bad one to introduce.

Why is their less of a risk with sucklers

greysides · 19-01-2019 1:28am

tanko wrote: »

So Johnes can be transferred in frozen biestings as well as fresh milk?

Yes.

charolais0153 wrote: »

Why is their less of a risk with sucklers

Someting like 7.5% of suckler herds are estimated infected.

grassroot1 · 19-01-2019 9:37am

It came in here in a limousin stock bull.
He melted in 3 days. We haven't had any cases since thank god

Buford T. Justice XIX · 19-01-2019 11:17am

charolais0153 wrote: »

Why is their less of a risk with sucklers

Mother to daughter transfer mostly in milk whereas, in dairy herds, one cow can feed 10 calves or more every day.

Limestone Cowboy · 19-01-2019 12:18pm

greysides wrote: »

A hammer handle through the calving ropes helps pull. An old trick of Eddie Straitons was to have the ropes joined (I.e. one rope) and 'sit' in it, using your legs, and hands on the cows rump, to pull the calf.

My father messed up his back years ago doing that, No doubt it's effective but maybe a better idea to reach for the jack.

bogman_bass · 19-01-2019 3:00pm

greysides wrote: »

A hammer handle through the calving ropes helps pull. An old trick of Eddie Straitons was to have the ropes joined (I.e. one rope) and 'sit' in it, using your legs, and hands on the cows rump, to pull the calf.

Doing that for yers here and you can have a second man on the ropes too

stretch film · 19-01-2019 3:10pm

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

My father messed up his back years ago doing that, No doubt it's effective but maybe a better idea to reach for the jack.

Exactly
You don't need to hammer away

Edit ..no pun intended

patsy_mccabe · 19-01-2019 5:46pm

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

My father messed up his back years ago doing that, No doubt it's effective but maybe a better idea to reach for the jack.

I hurt mine years ago at the same crack. Pulling while bent over is not good for the back.

whelan2 · 19-01-2019 6:09pm

Another thing to watch for this year is that silage is nearly too good for dry cows. Have had 3 big calves this last day or so. Friesian heifer calves out of cows.Pulled the 3 of them. Going to feed more straw and use more silage bales on dry cows.

squinn2912 · 19-01-2019 6:48pm

whelan2 wrote: »

Another thing to watch for this year is that silage is nearly too good for dry cows. Have had 3 big calves this last day or so. Friesian heifer calves out of cows.Pulled the 3 of them. Going to feed more straw and use more silage bales on dry cows.

That’s true our cows condition is improving despite not being over fed. Second cut stuff very wet though.
A neighbour talked her about putting the ropes on a tractor then jumping on them. Lunacy. If the calf isn’t going to come out on the jack then the vet gets a shout

whelan2 · 19-01-2019 6:53pm

squinn2912 wrote: »

That’s true our cows condition is improving despite not being over fed. Second cut stuff very wet though.
A neighbour talked her about putting the ropes on a tractor then jumping on them. Lunacy. If the calf isn’t going to come out on the jack then the vet gets a shout

It's all about knowing your own limits, I know fairly soon if I'm not going to be able to calve the cow. Vet has told me some horror stories.

Lady Haywire · 19-01-2019 7:10pm

You'd wince when you hear about things like jumping on ropes or the tractor

I was stumped with two calves last year, one was small yet wouldn't fit out & thought the other was tangled twins. Ended up a sharp/narrow pelvis on the cow and deformed calf. But both cases were sections and vet was called with plenty of time.
It really is disgraceful in this day & age when you not only have a mobile to call the vet, you've the internet telling you when to do it!!

L1985 · 19-01-2019 7:16pm

Can a cow have a prolapse before she calves? We have a cow due a few days ago and when she lies down it's like a red solid ball is sticking out.... she's had it a while now and just thought there would it be a prolapse? And if it is can she calf ok on her own?

tanko · 19-01-2019 7:19pm

L1985 wrote: »

Can a cow have a prolapse before she calves? We have a cow due a few days ago and when she lies down it's like a red solid ball is sticking out.... she's had it a while now and just thought there would it be a prolapse? And if it is can she calf ok on her own?

I've often seen that, she'll be grand i'd say. Just keep an eye on her.

L1985 · 19-01-2019 9:24pm

Thanks tanco-she's in a pen on her own so is being watched closely and they are all being monitored as now have 7 overdue (scanning may not have been as accurate this year!!). Was fine about her as she's in good form but then thought of the prolapse.

greysides · 19-01-2019 11:40pm

L1985 wrote: »

Can a cow have a prolapse before she calves? We have a cow due a few days ago and when she lies down it's like a red solid ball is sticking out.... she's had it a while now and just thought there would it be a prolapse? And if it is can she calf ok on her own?

Cull!

bogman_bass · 20-01-2019 12:00am

whelan2 wrote: »

Another thing to watch for this year is that silage is nearly too good for dry cows. Have had 3 big calves this last day or so. Friesian heifer calves out of cows.Pulled the 3 of them. Going to feed more straw and use more silage bales on dry cows.

The one thing there is no shortage of this year is gay. Best thing for dry cows IMO

Lady Haywire · 20-01-2019 12:59am

bogman_bass wrote: »

The one thing there is no shortage of this year is gay. Best thing for dry cows IMO

Jaysus...:D

Marengo · 20-01-2019 1:09am

Don't rush in. Let the cow loosen out properly. Call for help, veterinary or neighbour if needed. Assess the bone of the calf and how wide the cow is.Basic but can be lost in the heat of the moment. Side door may be required.

A lot of calves are lost when farmers lose the head. Particu;larly with the continental breeds and when a farmer fusses and thinks he can shift heaven and earth. Result can be stuck at the head or hips and a dead calf, possibly a dead cow or a cow that has been roughed up and won't come in heat for a longer spell etc..

Nobbies · 20-01-2019 1:58am

bogman_bass wrote: »

The one thing there is no shortage of this year is gay. Best thing for dry cows IMO

Till be dry for another while then so.

L1985 · 20-01-2019 1:46pm

greysides wrote: »

Cull!

She's just about to calf and is a great cow....why do I need to cull her??is prolapsing A big deal?

tanko · 20-01-2019 2:14pm

L1985 wrote: »

She's just about to calf and is a great cow....why do I need to cull her??is prolapsing A big deal?

I think he means dont put her in calf again. These things usually get worse every year and there is a risk she might fire out her calf bed along with the calf depending on what type of prolapse it is.
I had to stitch a few cows over the years that were prolapsing as they neared calving and then cut the stitches at calving. I culled them later that year.

greysides · 20-01-2019 2:20pm

L1985 wrote: »

She's just about to calf and is a great cow....why do I need to cull her??is prolapsing A big deal?

Assuming it's the cervix, cull after calving, when the calf is reared and she's fat.and not in-calf. It has a propensity to get worse every year. Exposure to air liquifies the cervical seal and can leave in bugs that result in a weak or dead calf come calving. This gets earlier every year and while a stitch can be put in to keep it in, the material is a foreign body and will only be tolerated for so long before swelling and infection start. It's not easy to satisfactorily deal with if, say, it happens at 7 months.

Same story as with sheep.

This is a different type of prolapse to what happens immediately after calving, when the uterus turns inside out. However if she has a tendency to be 'hanging out' during the calving she's going to need supervision during it. You want the calf to come out without pulling her passage out and stretching it any more than it is already. Let's hope for a small calf that comes out easy or a massive one that it's immediately obvious needs a side door. The large one that comes with traction is the one you don't want.

(More time today to give you a proper answer)

greysides · 20-01-2019 2:22pm

tanko wrote: »

I think he means dont put her in calf again. These things usually get worse every year and there is a risk she might fire out her calf bed along with the calf depending on what type of prolapse it is.
I had to stitch a few cows over the years that were prolapsing as they neared calving and then cut the stitches at calving. I culled them later that year.

bogman_bass · 20-01-2019 2:23pm

Lady Haywire wrote: »

Jaysus...:D

Doh!

Angus2018 · 20-01-2019 4:37pm

We had a cow with a mild prolapse a month or two before calving. Calved her and put her in calf again. It was much worse the next year, some days it looked like a football when she lay down. No problems once she calved but I had to be fearful of an actual prolapse after she calved. Culled her anyway since her udder was wonky.

Marengo wrote: »

Don't rush in. Let the cow loosen out properly. Call for help, veterinary or neighbour if needed. Assess the bone of the calf and how wide the cow is.Basic but can be lost in the heat of the moment. Side door may be required.

Patience and experience is the most important thing when it comes to calving. Being able to say she needs more time and we have to intervene now is what makes sure your cow comes back in calf. You only learn that by being in those situations though so its very much trial and error if you don't have someone training you in.

L1985 · 20-01-2019 5:09pm

Thanks greysides and Tanko. It will be a pity to cull her as she's a good cow but TBH my motto around calving is to have it as easy and painless as possible for man and beast so I think I'll be listening to ye on culling her. Hopefully she calves ok by herself but I'll be faster to intervene now that I know there is an issue. Calves so far have been good sized but came themselves so we will see...

grassroot1 · 20-01-2019 8:10pm

L1985 wrote:

She's just about to calf and is a great cow....why do I need to cull her??is prolapsing A big deal?

Yes it is let's hope she does not prolapse after calving

golodge · 21-01-2019 11:18pm

L1985 wrote: »

Thanks greysides and Tanko. It will be a pity to cull her as she's a good cow but TBH my motto around calving is to have it as easy and painless as possible for man and beast so I think I'll be listening to ye on culling her. Hopefully she calves ok by herself but I'll be faster to intervene now that I know there is an issue. Calves so far have been good sized but came themselves so we will see...

Had two such cows not so long time ago. Blood related...
One was doing that for around 3 years and it got worse with each year. The last year it looked horrible and she was very close to fully prolapsing. She calved okay, but less than one month after calving she started prolapsing again and that's when she had to go. Either way it would have been the last year for her, but wanted that she at least had raised her calf.
Another, the first ones granddaughter, did that for two years. She had raised her last calf, but had to go after weaning. Was a very nice cow...

whelan2 · 25-01-2019 9:43am

lanod2407 wrote: »

Being v premature I was caught offside when he dropped, so it would have been around 6 hours between birth, finding him and then getting the colostrum from the chemist - which I'd understand is too long.

Anyway, I'm getting 3 litres of milk into him a day now, and he's slowly starting to perk up - not moving around much at all, and I put a jacket on him yesterday as I've no access to power up in the shed for a lamp and his mother is in and out to him - she's broken back out to the others a few times, so I decided to let her have access in and out. Seems to be happier with that.

How did he do?

L1985 · 02-02-2019 5:45pm

Cow with the prolapse calved there no bother. Came home after two hours and calf was up trying to drink. Had a quick look at her before I left and didn't see any sign although I was in a rush! Happy days &#55357;&#56898;

ozil10 · 02-02-2019 6:52pm

Has anyone tried transformula milk powder before transitioning onto the shine once a day milk replacer
It is quite expensive.
Just wanting to know was it of any benefit

Castlekeeper · 02-02-2019 9:17pm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

I bought Glucose and Bread Soda in Dunnes Stores last week. Quick homemade electrolyte.

http://animalhealthireland.ie/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Recipe_for_Homemade_electrolytes.pdf

Didn't read the link but Lo- salt is better than table salt as it has potassium as well as sodium.

Castlekeeper · 02-02-2019 10:09pm

L1985 wrote: »

Can a cow have a prolapse before she calves? We have a cow due a few days ago and when she lies down it's like a red solid ball is sticking out.... she's had it a while now and just thought there would it be a prolapse? And if it is can she calf ok on her own?

Harmless, we've one does that for years, and used go have another one before, never made a bit of a difference, about the size of an orange to a grapefruit?

whelan2 · 03-02-2019 9:55am

Calved a cow there now. A 5th calver, bb 2083. Some job to get him out. Massive head and shoulders. Served 22nd April. Cow fairly shook too. Used jack

greysides · 03-02-2019 12:07pm

whelan2 wrote: »

Calved a cow there now. A 5th calver, bb 2083. Some job to get him out. Massive head and shoulders. Served 22nd April. Cow fairly shook too. Used jack

Calcium, oxytocin, glycerine.

Consider antibiotic and anti-inflammatory.

Maybe fluids.

Go as far down that list as appropriate.

charolais0153 · 03-02-2019 2:29pm

greysides wrote: »

Calcium, oxytocin, glycerine.

Consider antibiotic and anti-inflammatory.

Maybe fluids.

Go as far down that list as appropriate.

What would ab be used for on that instance?

greysides · 03-02-2019 3:24pm

charolais0153 wrote: »

What would ab be used for on that instance?

Large calf... tears, bruising, devitalised tissue, possibility of retained cleaning in part or complete. Trying to head off metritis, endometritis, toxaemia, infertility.

Madisonmenece · 03-02-2019 6:04pm

Anyone heard a loud popping noise when pulling a calf, we have had on three occasions this year twice when jacking but not massively hard and another with just ropes.

It does sound awful like a strap/rope giving under pressure. Cows and calves are all fine and from that point calving seems be easier.

L1985 · 03-02-2019 7:41pm

I really hope I'm not jinxing myself here but this is the first year we have been using oats to the in calf cows every day and it seems to be making some difference. Last four calving were done in an hour with th calf up and drinking before I even knew she had starting calving. Decent sized calves as well and they are full of beans which is good for Charolais!! Had 5 out of 16 in the spring calving calf in the last 24 hours and only two calving pens! It felt like every time I looked there was another new calf standing there!!

Castlekeeper · 03-02-2019 8:52pm

greysides wrote: »

Large calf... tears, bruising, devitalised tissue, possibility of retained cleaning in part or complete. Trying to head off metritis, endometritis, toxaemia, infertility.

I take it you're a vet and if so
Is it best practice to use antibiotics in anticipation or pre infection?
We would alwaus have been advised otherwise but these things are always being updated.

blackdog1 · 03-02-2019 9:20pm

L1985 wrote:

I really hope I'm not jinxing myself here but this is the first year we have been using oats to the in calf cows every day and it seems to be making some difference. Last four calving were done in an hour with th calf up and drinking before I even knew she had starting calving. Decent sized calves as well and they are full of beans which is good for Charolais!! Had 5 out of 16 in the spring calving calf in the last 24 hours and only two calving pens! It felt like every time I looked there was another new calf standing there!!

I've been feeding oats and barley for years with cal mag in it and it's fantastic. You get nice long calves and full of vitality. Super feed oats. It's different to other feeds because it floats in the stomach. Also we give cows a 2 buckets of warm water after calving which is another thing I find great.

L1985 · 03-02-2019 10:36pm

blackdog1 wrote: »

I've been feeding oats and barley for years with cal mag in it and it's fantastic. You get nice long calves and full of vitality. Super feed oats. It's different to other feeds because it floats in the stomach. Also we give cows a 2 buckets of warm water after calving which is another thing I find great.

Why the warm water?ive never heard of that!

greysides · 03-02-2019 11:10pm

Castlekeeper wrote: »

Is it best practice to use antibiotics in anticipation or pre infection?
We would alwaus have been advised otherwise but these things are always being updated.

It's a case of probabilities. My suggestions were graduated from mild to severe cases.

jd06 · 04-02-2019 12:05am

blackdog1 wrote: »

I've been feeding oats and barley for years with cal mag in it and it's fantastic. You get nice long calves and full of vitality. Super feed oats. It's different to other feeds because it floats in the stomach. Also we give cows a 2 buckets of warm water after calving which is another thing I find great.

Hi just wondering how soon before calving do you introduce oats,
Is it rolled oats
Would the oats effect the size of the calf
Tia

Base price · 04-02-2019 12:57am

L1985 wrote: »

Why the warm water?ive never heard of that!

We always gave cows warm water to drink after calving in Winter or a cold Spring. I presume it has to do with the cow drinking more water than normal after calving and her system not getting shocked with cold (ice) water. After heifers calving or cows after a hard/difficult calving I used to offer them a warm bran mash for two or three feeds with epsom salts added if she was bound up/constipated.

High bike · 04-02-2019 11:59am

Been using the oats for a couple of yrs too and find em a great job, they don't swell the calf and give the cow plenty energy

L1985 · 04-02-2019 1:52pm

jd06 wrote: »

Hi just wondering how soon before calving do you introduce oats,
Is it rolled oats
Would the oats effect the size of the calf
Tia

Someone more scientific then me can prob anwser better but we have been giving them oats since the middle of November all due between Jan and March. Give hay for 3days then a bale of silage on the fourth. Seems to be working well.
I'll be putting electricity in that shed next year so must remember about the warm water for the cow -it's a good idea.

grassroot1 · 04-02-2019 4:24pm

blackdog1 wrote:

I've been feeding oats and barley for years with cal mag in it and it's fantastic. You get nice long calves and full of vitality. Super feed oats. It's different to other feeds because it floats in the stomach. Also we give cows a 2 buckets of warm water after calving which is another thing I find great.

You are hardly feeding cal mag pre calving?

blackdog1 · 04-02-2019 5:18pm

grassroot1 wrote: »

You are hardly feeding cal mag pre calving?

I most certainly am. start feeding it with the barley oat mix a month from calving. i haven't used a bottle of calcium in years. Cows are quick to calve and generally quick to clean. On the oats , I use a barley oats mix 50/50 and the calves are nice and long but the cows and heifers are well able to calve them. i also use easy calving bulls for heifers to be extra cautious.

Calving 2019 - Advice and Help thread

Comments